Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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>north: hey south, look at all this machinery we have up here!
>south: whoa north, that's pretty cool!
>north: yeah it is, we don't even need niggers anymore!
>south: seriously??
>north: seriously! now free your niggers and become reliant on us, or we will invade you.
>south: wha-
>north: dumb fucking inbred southerners

the yankees.
we would have been better off separated. and it killed states rights.

The South shouldn't have seceded, and blacks should have been sent back to Africa. Really there shouldn't have been slaves in the first place.

fpbp

The south
They were democrats
they brought the worst of africa into america
they didn't take care of it
they still bitch about it

which flag is objectively less aesthetic/better designed? theres your answer

which sounds manlier? yoonyoon or kunfedrit

theres your answer

The rebel scum. They imported the blacks.

The Democrats were being cucks to the Rothschild bankers. And to European trade.
But both sides were being played by by Democrat national chairperson, August Belmont employee of the Rothschilds. Who gave funding to the North, while the Rothschilds gave aid to the South.

>The South shouldn't have seceded
yes we should have. we're not pussies who let others walk over us and thats what the north was trying to do.
>and blacks should have been sent back to Africa. Really there shouldn't have been slaves in the first place.
we agree on that. it probably would have happened once we industrialized. and atleast we damn sure wouldnt have ended segregation.

This. The industrial revolution would have made slavery obsolete in a few decades. Progressives pushed an agenda that resulted in at least half a million Americans killing their own brothers over some nogs.

That is progressivism for you. Too much too fast all the time.

...

I think that both sides were at fault to some degree, no one is entirely innocent, but on balance the North is the guiltier party.

Both sides had valid points and both sides had retarded points.

The North was right in that slavery was retarded economically and blacks were incompatible with western civilization anyways.

The South was right about state sovereignty and the right of a people to rule themselves.

The South was more in the wrong for firing on Sumter though, they could have gone their own way without any hassle had they not fired on another nation's sovereign territory.

>The South was more in the wrong for firing on Sumter though, they could have gone their own way without any hassle had they not fired on another nation's sovereign territory.
have you looked at sumter on a fuckin map? it was in southern land not the norths. and we gave them days to get out but they refused.

This. It's a great example of taking a social change that is already occurring and then forcing it to occur faster than it naturally would. This breeds great resentment among people. Think of how different this country would be if slaves had been gradually freed and integrated over a few generations.

>mfw one man 150 years later still triggers literally every southerner into a fit of uncontrollable impotent rage
>mfw thinking about how roaring drunk he must have been as he burned the south to the ground

the south is why we have any niggers left in this country. they were supposed to go to liberia

The island in Charleston harbor upon which Sumter was built (by the US Federal gov't), was a man made island sold, legally and with all that entails, to the Union some years prior to secession.

That fort, and the land it was on, were Union property.

Talk shit, get hit.

>Union frees a bunch of blacks who have no idea how to function in society
>Puts South under martial law for their fuck ups in the war, while most poor southerners who didn't own slaves get fucked over
>White southerners take anger out on blacks
>Blacks move North to biggest cities, making most literal war-zones in some areas
The South lost the battle, but won the war in the end

keep posting him. nobody cares. thats like me posting Robert E lee.
It was no longer federal land the moment SC delcared its independance. like i said they gave them days to leave AND they didnt even kill anyone. they just fired on the fort to make the garrison leave or surrender after refusing to do so.

>Talk shit, get hit.
Yeah and we hit harder. outnumbered more than 3 to 1 with outdated rifles and starving men- still killed 100 thousand more kek

Best national anthem

youtube.com/watch?v=h6FaJ9U2bh8

>jews caused the civil war
god fucking damn it. EVERY TIME. Can't for once Sup Forums not be right

>It was no longer federal land the moment SC delcared its independance
The land was sold, by South Carolina, to the Federal government, they don't just get to arbitrarily claim the land again because South Carolina feels like they should own the land.

That's illegal in literally any international claims court.

>Yeah and we hit harder. outnumbered more than 3 to 1 with outdated rifles and starving men- still killed 100 thousand more kek
It was closer to about 50k more, and the vast majority of all Union deaths were from disease, not Southern arms.

Combat casualties were almost the same for both the North and South, it just seems skewed because historically illiterate persons only know about the Eastern theater and know nothing about the quagmire of retardation and failure and utter incompetence that was the Confederate war effort in the West.

You had a land area the size of European Russia, a motivated and sizeable armed population to defend it, and the support of most of Europe, and you STILL got wrecked.

I don't know but the quote from this movie is fucking based.

youtube.com/watch?v=qiSAbAuLhqs

>Congress must never declare equal, those who God created unequal

>people unironically defend the nigger loving North

Slavery was backward practice even then, so the US had to fight rebels to stop the practice.

This is the mindset behind every cause of progressivism to this day.

can someone send me some red pilled documentaries on the civil war. can find any. i want something cute to watch before I sleep

I spent years working with southerners. He really is their antichrist.

Also, mention that you are from NY and prepare for a REEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

Ken Burns the Civil War.

Just skip or ignore the parts dealing with Slavery.

>they don't just get to arbitrarily claim the land again because South Carolina feels like they should own the land.
its not an arbitrary claim faggot it was only sold because they were under the federal governments rule. but this is like arguing who gets to keep the furniture after a divorce. even if you think it was rightful northern land (which is retarded) they didnt kill anyone for it.
>That's illegal in literally any international claims court.
oh fuck off international claims court doesnt mean shit. its only been relevant since america become the world police force.

>It was closer to about 50k more
only if you figure in confederate POW deaths. and the majority of southern deaths were from disease as well so that point is useless.
>Combat casualties were almost the same for both the North and South
even if they were even (which they're not) its still impressive given that our soldiers were outnumbered, outgunned, and starving compared to the north. especially late war.
>quagmire of retardation and failure and utter incompetence that was the Confederate war effort in the West.
you mean texas? they were useless because they were so few in number. thats like expecting missouri to put up a good fight. those battles were smaller anyway.
>You had a land area the size of European Russia
thats a huge overstatement. we're big but we're like 1/3rd or less of Russia.
>a motivated and sizeable armed population to defend it
motivated, but we didnt have the population. we had near complete conscription. scraping the barrel while the north never even conscripted half of what they could have.
>the support of most of Europe
support of europe? the hell are you talking about. britian was the only one that gave it serious consideration and even they backed out.
>and you STILL got wrecked.
dont kid yourself. the south was farmland and farmers up against an industrialized nation with more of literally everything but cotton. and we nearly won.

The Union forever; death to traitors.

youtube.com/watch?v=v582kPp43Mg

Southerners can't just be Southern, they have to make everything Southern-that's-right-not-Northern.

Here in Oregon we just get pissed if you confuse us with California.

Lincoln for being an autocrat and the South for linking secession to slavery.

from The Devil's Dictionary by Ambrose Bierce:

YANKEE, n. In Europe, an American. In the Northern States of our Union, a New Englander. In the Southern States the word is unknown. (See DAMYANK.)

I'm an engineer and one year my workplace had a chili contest. A fellow NYer submitted one that he named "That Damned Yankee's Chili." Dude was great in the kitchen and the chili was awesome. I then watched two southern, educated engineers in their 30s have a straight faced, unironic, serious conversation over whether they could vote for it. Because that would be an endorsement of Yankeedom.

It's like a religion to them.

"As a rule the Confederates fought better than our men. On even terms they commonly defeated us; nearly all our victories were won by superior numbers, better arms and advantages of position." --Ambrose Bierce, author and Union veteran of the Civil War

Point? Industrialization beat Agrarian Feudalism. The North had the tech and infrastructure to wage a total war. The outdated plantation owners did not.

You are no better than Commiefornia so what's the difference

Religions have a persecution story, like the Romans persecuting Christianity before it spread. The North took the South's short-lived independence.

"It was a point of grammatical concord which was at the bottom of the Civil War — 'United States are,' said one, 'United States is,' said another."
-Basil Gildersleeve

>Everything about Sumter island
Your argument is still literally muh feels.
South Carolina sold the island. It was literally not their property.
>you mean texas?
Actually the Trans-Mississippi went pretty badly for the Union, I meant Mississippi, Lousiana, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia.
>thats a huge overstatement.
EUROPEAN Russia
>but we didnt have the population
The South in 1860 still had several millions of people. Countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan resisted US occupation with far fewer people as a percentage. The CSA could have fought a style of warfare capable of outlasting the Union but they chose to charge at superior numbers and firepower until they inevitably ran out of meat for the grinder.
>support of europe
Britain and France both supplied the Confederacy with millions of dollars worth of arms and materiel. Practically all CSA gun powder came from them for instance. Those two countries alone were like 2/3rds of Europe's population and industry in the mid 1800's.
>south was farmland and farmers
The South would have been the third most industrialized nation in the World in 1860 if they were their own country, behind the US and Britain.

Don't believe the high school tier narrative that the South was a bunch of farmers and hillbillies fighting against industrialists. States like North Carolina, Virginia, Tennessee and Kentucky, and even Georgia, to a certain extent, were focusing more on industrialization than plantation farming by the mid 1800's. Which is why those States all seceded by the narrowest margins and with huge amounts of voter fraud.

I highly suggest you read up on the state of the United States prior to the Civil War.

You might be on to something. I guess I'd have a grudge if the bongs stamped us down and burnt the country to the ground. (1812 notwithstanding)

if the north would have known what was to come...

>americans killing americans over a bunch of niggers and menial shit

Arkansas user here. There's always tons of shit talked about the war and how it was "not about slavery" but muh state's rights, etc. I wasn't alive so I don't fucking know how Southerners at the time felt.

It's true though, Southernness is like a fucking religion. People loathe everything Northerners do including how they speak, the way they solve problems, how they drive, etc. The only time a Southerner will defend a Northerner is against a foreigner.

RARE KRAI

If the South hadn't shot first it might have been an altogether more civilized affair, more like Brexit.

Of course if they hadn't seceded at all, slavery might have ended like in Britain, where the government just buys all the slaves and frees them. That way Southern capital investment wouldn't have evaporated overnight. Also they'd probably have all been shipped to Liberia.

America was a mistake

>Your argument is still literally muh feels.
no its not. i've explained it more than enough now.
>The South in 1860 still had several millions of people
when you're spread out over a large area a few million isnt enough to fight against 3x more.
>Countries like Vietnam and Afghanistan resisted US occupation with far fewer people as a percentage
afganistan got stomped and vietnam did too. we pulled out of vietnam because it was too costly. militarily speaking they could barely scratch the US. and on top of all that its a shit analogy considering they dont share a massive land border.
>charge at superior numbers and firepower until they inevitably ran out of meat for the grinder.
thats just dishonest. you're making it sound like soviet russia despite the south killing more with less men.
>Britain and France both supplied the Confederacy with
They supplied BOTH sides and the union blockade prevented most of that from reaching the south anyway. they didn't supply men or outright military intervention.
>The South would have been the third most industrialized nation in the World in 1860 if they were their own country
again, we're drawing comparison between the north and south not the rest of the world. that point doesnt matter if the north still has far more.
>don't believe the high school tier narrative that the South was a bunch of farmers
i dont look down on farmers my family comes from a line of farmers.
>and hillbillies
yea dont put those together.
>fighting against industrialists
as a nation they were.
>were focusing more on industrialization than plantation farming by the mid 1800's
if by "focus" you mean the government? we were still very much agricultural.
> those States all seceded by the narrowest margins and with huge amounts of voter fraud.
it wasnt a narrow margin in most areas and sure as hell not voter fraud. you just pulled that out of your ass. there were only a handful of union areas like east Ten or west virgina.

How To Take Our Country Back

youtu.be/9NrikN_09_U

>no civil war
>blacks sent back to Africa
>no infringement on states rights
>no economic disaster in the south
>far more united America
>negligible dysgenic effect on national IQ, crime rate, degeneracy, and politics

God damn. If only.

Thanks for the insight, user. There certainly is a states rights angle, but I'd love to get the insights of a native.

Is it residual persecution rage like the niggers have?

North was taxing south 40% taxation rates and none of that money was going back to the South's areas.

Lincoln arrested over 300 reporters.

Europe thought about intervening to help the CSA against the tyrannical North.

Founding fathers were okay with secession.

Lincoln said he would free or not free niggers if it meant the union stayed together.

Wasn't fought over slavery.

>If the South hadn't shot first
Northern states performing border raids was in the lead up to the declaration of war.

youtu.be/RPOnL-PZeCc

Prepare to be redpilled

That was just shit like John Brown and Bleeding Kansas, though, not actual federal troops, unless I missed something.

You realise the US was heavily restricted in their warfare against Vietnam and Afghanistan, unlike their war against the CSA? That was even a controversial topic during Vietnam, as to how much the US armed forces had their hands tied and how many US deaths those restrictions resulted in. Same with the ME in the ROE that resulted in many more deaths than would have happened without such restrictions. Vietnam also had endless material & advisor support from the PRC and USSR.
You cannot compare the USAvsCSA, with Vietnam & Afghanistan in that regard.

The North was in the wrong. Even ignoring the insane tax levied on the south to benefit the north, George Washington literally said that if you didn't like the nation, you should start your own.

This. People never talk enough about the economic raping the north was doing to the south prior to the war, nor that the majority of the money for the factory construction in the north came from the southern economy.

The north used southern money to industrialise, and then destroyed the South's economy with tariffs and taxes, and make them dependent on Northern industrialists. People forget that Lincoln was a shill lawyer for the railroad corporations before becoming president. They helped get him in and the south knew the shit federal policies for them would continue.

Living around a bunch of niggers and being able to compare the feels, I'd say yes. You hear it referred to as the War of Northern aggression a lot.

My family is Kraut and we came over here to farm like 20 years after the war was over. I guess that's why there was never a bunch of talk about slavery and shit like that. Cool fact though: my grandpa (call him papaw) is 103. When he was young, there was this old black dude that lived in a small house on the farm. He had actually been a slave but never left the land since he didn't know any other life.

>residual persecution rage

The only rage I see at the north is towards northern liberals who preach to us about the virtues of niggers while living in gated communities of 95%+ whites.

If only the South seceded and joined forces with the Germans in wwii...

Both. Americans killing each other is just wrong.

Considering who supported them in the Civil War, the South would have sided with England and France in WW1, with the North on the German side. After that history gets too fucked to make predictions about.

Also
>Muh no threat to slavery
Some of the earliest laws the US passed right after the Revolutionary War were laws that virtually killed the slave importation market to the US and made the penalties life imprisonment or death, (you were literally charged with piracy under new revisions in 1810, if I remember the year correctly).

Slavery was in the government's crosshairs since the US was born, and rightfully so, but the north benefitted from it to the point that slavery wasn't necessary in their land, (and the fact that labor riots in the north from factory owners using slaves in the factories, and not employing Americans, necessitated the abolition of slavery for the north) and planned to make the south slaves to them

My dad's side are Dutch dairy farmers that immigrated in the 50's. Mom's side is mixed anglo, more dutch, and Iroquois from undetermined times. And interestingly, the Dutch side is wayyyy more racist.

North obviously

Think about how different it would have been if we just deported them all to Africa.

Fair enough, mang. I am from Upstate farm country. ~50 ppl/sq mi. I get what you're saying. We hate Downstate. Out of touch leftists push laws which might make sense in NYC, but are fucking retarded in rural NY.

My heart skipped a beat while my brain flooded with this wonderful thought.

I was stationed in Watertown. I'm from Texas, and I never knew there would be rednecks in New York state, but there are a bunch.
I used to club in Syracuse and had a girlfriend in Rome.

It's roughly analogous to your relationship then. If we met someone from the north who was rural, we'd have alot in common. I think the divide between is more rural/urban anyway.

For some reason, especially in High School, teachers will always create the narrative that the South were a bunch of idiots who just knew how to fight.

>southerners too lazy to pick their own cotton
>think it's a good idea to bring in even lazier niggers to do it
>rely completely on one commodity
>forced to free slaves and modernize
>constantly whine about muh segregation thereafter like they weren't breeding coons

Southerners are dumb as fuck, but either way, America as a whole lost.

This also makes that
>South kept bringing niggers in! It's their fault!
argument retarded. It's untrue, it's why slaves became extremely expensive in 19th century US. The importation market was severely crippled, and with how open ended the laws were written, virtually no merchant wanted to risk the penalties.
If you want to blame anyone, primarily blame the British colonists, and the black slaves who earned their freedom and acquired their own slaves, before the US existed.

Got my undergrad from 'cuse. They're tearing down Chuck's.

Yeah, kinda why I am on the rebel side of the Upstate/Downstate split.

Mom's side is Anglo and German, and someone race mixed with a Cherokee in Oklahoma at some point along the way.

Hard to say which side is more racist. We had our family Christmas dinner at a Church fellowship hall once since we had a ton of family there and needed the extra space. Some black beggar woman roamed in off the street wanting a plate of food. We gave her a bunch of food but my grandma (like 90 yrs old at the time), set her utensils down and just stared at the woman the entire time. She was like from the old world where you didn't even eat your meals around blacks.

youtube.com/watch?v=5kWADI4umuM
>not posting the best version

Clearly Kek supports the South.

We youngins like to ascribe motive. Was her reaction bc she was black, or because she was looking for a handout?

The south imported the niggers, faggot.

My grandmother was too old to realize she was asking for a handout. She'd already had a couple of strokes and was having trouble with names and such by then. It was definitely because she was black.

As chattel. You retards forced us to free them, then gave them citizenship. At no point did we intend for them to live among us.

No shade on your GM, I had a phone call w/ mine last night. Knocking on 80. You're cool, man. but we'll all be there. I just want to fix this place before I croak.

>And interestingly, the Dutch side is wayyyy more racist.
If anything that is because southerners have defaultly adopted a south african way of dealing with niggers. friendly, polite, armed. A steely gaze and 2 syllable words is the easiest way to deal with niggers. Yankees act like pussies and get robbed like pussies, which usually leads to being FAR more racis than the racist local white population with passable race relations.

Depends on where in Yankee territory. Upstate is armed to the teeth.

it comes down to cognitive dissonance.
>gee that african american is dumb and violent I should learn to deal withe them since I interact with this classmate/employee/people daily
literally had to suplex a nigger at ~9 years old in a mixed children's program because I was white. Little niglet decided he was going to fight me so I grappled and dropped him on his ass. Took about 10 more years of dealing with niggers daily before coming on Sup Forums and realizing the defining factor was that they were all niggers.
vs
>hello fellow people of the world what do you mean you want me to take off my shoes and show you what time it is with my phone oh gee holy fuck are you robbing me that isn't very progressive of you but consider this part of the reparations we never paid you oh you're from haiti well white people are still racist

lets see what good all those guns do when nigs steal your women
All women love the BBC

ok Abo

The weapons will protects te grills....

Nothing scare a nog more than a force equalizer.

Hold your horses partner
>plucks banjo
Are you trying to imply that
>sips iced tea
Is it your proposition that supposes
>works the land
Hold your horses, you're declaring
>whistles Dixie
Your proposition is that
>Eats grits and bacon
Slaves are people n shit?

Except your women will have guns as well. They will defend their nigger-boytoys

OK, I am from 98% white country? What are you trying to say?

Americans chimping out and shooting each other as usual.

Except that's over-simplified but whatever. The north and south have hated each other before the US was it's own country. It's more like:

>north: Slavery is bad cuz muh religion. Also need more votes for dem programs in Congress. More free states!
>southern jew: Don't listen to them Goyim.Look at all this money! Sure only 25% get to own slaves but you don't want to take away your poor southerner's right to own people do you?
>south: You make a very good point Shlomo. We need more blacks in this country! What could go wrong? More slave states!
>north: fuck you, south.
>south: fuck you, north.
>north: say that to my face fucker not online see what happens.
>south: 1v1 fite me. Bleeding Kansas map.
>Both North and South sperg out at each other while congress is too scared to send troops and start the war.
>north: Oh shit. Muh Lawrence! Osama Bin John Brown I choose you!
>John Brown: Aloha Snackbar! Hey North I accidentally five settlers.
>north: That's cool bro. Hide out up here. South ain't shit.
>south: I cane ur senator lulz.
>John Brown: north gib moniez plz. It for good cause.
>north: sure, what could go wrong?
>John Brown: General Tubman lets 9/11 Harpers Ferry! Oh noes first person I killed was black freeman. I'm so sorry for being white plz kill me!
>south: The fire rises. Raise militia and war!

Not that this isn't over-simplified, I guess the takeaway from this is north and south were begging to kill each other. Kind of like the right and left now.

>OK, I am from 98% white country?
Are Americans this delusional?

I meant to say a 98% white area, Drunk, View pic related, The North is relatively clean.

You know r/The_Donald, it IS called the war of Northern aggression for a reason.