Universal Healthcare

Can anyone from the countries with free healthcare tell me what's the downside to universal healthcare? Universal healthcare for anyone sounds like the usual feel-good utopian bullshit but it's a pretty appealing idea on its own. There must be some pretty heavy downsides if the knee-jerk reaction here is to shit over it

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bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/u-s-health-care-system-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-efficient
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Bump

>bumping after 2 minutes
kill yourself you faggot ass hippie

higher taxes

but still way better than usa's current situation

also pay debnts

Compared to the American system... there's no downsides that I can think of.

I've always had great care, and to be honest I don't think about it at all -- it's only when I come on Sup Forums that I'm reminded that "everyone can get life saving surgery when they need it" is a radical liberal idea.

UHC seems to be more effective at keeping costs down, judging by the massive inefficiencies in the American 'free market healthcare' system, which doesn't appear to be a free market at all -- just a bunch of Jews who run insurance companies trying to rip off anyone who actually gets sick, and negotiating for $10000 xrays with the Jews who run the hospitals. I don't think a free market is really possible in health care -- if you need open heart surgery in the next ten minutes or you'll die, you can't negotiate on the price or walk away on the deal. The value to you, the buyer, is infinite, and you'll pay whatever -- clearly, this is not a market in the traditional sense, and attempting to treat it as one is a massive mistake, and leads to things like ten million dollar hospital bills. It's insanity.

>browses page 4
>calls me a faggot

Canada's works okay. The drawback is the triage system. If your problem is urgent, you get care immediately. If it isn't, you go on waiting list. The problem is what does and does not constitute urgent. Sometimes people with serious problems have to wait longer than they should because the system decided for whatever reason that their problem could wait a couple months.

Also higher taxes. Also government decides how to allocate those taxes. Sometimes their choice of allocation is questionable.

There's literally no way to pay money upfront in order to get treatment without having to wait? Because for the most part this was the drawback that made me err against free healthcare.

No. If you allow a two tier system like that, the rich eventually buy their way out of it, and only go to private doctors that will prescribe them whatever they want and wait on them hand and foot. The doctors who defect end up making more money than the doctors who care about actually treating people, and the system starts to disintegrate soon after.

This is one of the reasons why I disagree with market rules on healthcare. I'm all for free market but I think that in the long-run it's more beneficial for the people to be able to afford life-saving surgeries.

That depends on country and, in the case of Canada, province. For instance, I live in Alberta and private medical practices are allowed here. Meaning if you do want to pay to get something done right now without dealing with the public system you can. There is resistance to this idea in other parts of Canada but I think it works well. The public system has not suffered in any way that I have noticed from the presence of optional private clinics.

I could go into the nity grity of economics but honestly it has been proven that free markets are the most efficient at allocating resources to where they need to be in addition your socialist market is the opposite.

That's the 'resistance' I was referring to. I get it in theory but in practice it does not appear to play out that way.

As a former Canadian I can vouch for how shitty universal healthcare works, even in a small population like Canada. I had many many 8hr trips to the emergency room

My immediate thought is that the rich and the ones who could afford go straight to the private doctors and the rest are left with the waiting list, which I don't think is really bad because if it's really urgent they'd get free treatment anyways.

Of course, this is in theory and very rosy colored. Maybe I'm not seeing an obvious complication that would come up

You could try and sperg out about the 'nitty gritty of economics', but try and save your time, I already have a masters...


bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/u-s-health-care-system-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-efficient

Read this, from noted 'socialist propaganda rag', Bloomberg.

Your 'free market' system ranks 50/55 for efficiency.

>America was 50th out of 55 countries in 2014, according to a Bloomberg index that assesses life expectancy, health-care spending per capita and relative spending as a share of gross domestic product. Expenditures averaged $9,403 per person, about 17.1 percent of GDP, that year — the most recent for which data are available — and life expectancy was 78.9. Only Jordan, Colombia, Azerbaijan, Brazil and Russia ranked lower.

No

you get stories like this with countries with paid healthcare, anyways.

In a two tier system, the public system becomes underfunded over time -- because the wealthy don't have to use it, they don't care about it -- they don't want to pay taxes for it, and will vote for anyone who feels the same way. This kills the system over time.

In Canada, yes, the rich people do get slightly preferential treatment, but not through direct negotiation with the doctors: they live in nicer areas, the clinics are less busy, and the truly wealthy often make large donations to the public hospitals. Obviously, if the cancer wing is named after your father, you get slightly different treatment.

The system works well for everyone and it's egalitarian -- this should be something that every nation should strive for. It's a point of national pride for us.

Also note: when you have to worry about the efficiency of public systems like this, your populace is a lot more concerned about who gets let into the country -- we take in a lot of immigrants, but we're very selective. We take in rich Chinese, Indians with advanced degrees, and so forth. Canada does a good job of screening our immigrants overall (Quebec, not so much), and one of the reasons is that we have a social contract that requires all of our citizens to be productive and contribute to society.

Yeah our system sucks but that's because we don't have a free market system at all in health care sense the AHCA because it inhibits competition and incitives.

At least half these places are shit-holes.

It don't work if I get sick bad enough to need healthcare I head for Seattle.

What you can get in the US in an hour is more than the Canadian system gives you in a year.

Doctor visits last under 7 minutes on average and you no longer have a doctor. It's all clinics.

You'll never see the same doctor twice soon.
Most are not even real; they rotate in from research positions and give zero fucks.

Have to do some time in public service.

It's broken. Also it's not free it's $103 or so every couple months.

Do you make $1000 an hour? If not, a few hours in the emergency room isn't such a bad deal.

I spent eight hours in the emergency room once, because I was an idiot and broke my hand by punching a wall -- the nurses were apologetic, of course, but that's how triage works: the people who need more serious care get priority.

I was a student at the time and had no money. It didn't cost me anything. Had I been in the US, I doubtlessly wouldn't have been covered by insurance, and would have been bankrupt. I would have had to drop out of school.

Like I said, I now have a Master's degree in economics and contribute significant taxes to the Canadian system, and am happy to do so.

If I were in the US... I'd be working a McJob and have no credit and contribute nothing to society.

Everytime I hear a Canadian talking like this, I ask the next Canadian.

>ask very effeminate acting obviously liberal Canadian expecting to hear again how great UHC is.

>No way user, you have to stand in line to get procedure X and so and so almost died on three month waiting list then went to the US.

>mfw

I genuinely never know what to think.

Another caveat in my eyes is that Canada is very homogenous i.e. no freeloading illegal spics to clog up their ERs shifting enormous healthcare burden of cost onto hospitals that charge ever more to anyone that can actually pay or is actually in the system properly with insurance and taxes and all i.e. whites.

No way. I pay $23 a pay period for basic HRA with $550 allowance and 80% coverage on almost everything. I can call right now and see a doctor within 24hr for anything I need. Wait a maximum of 20min in wait room at emergency room. American healthcare is very efficient

THAT'S RIGHT! PAY FOR MY HEALTHY!

Federally mandated and subsidized healthcare is unconstitutional.

PAY MY HEALTHY!

Would you look at that, all White and Asian countries. I wonder why that is. Really makes ya think

...

PAY MY HEALTHY NOW!

PAY FOR MY HEALTHY!

Do you even research shit..

"Without health insurance, diagnosis and treatment for a broken hand typically includes the cost of the X-ray, a facility fee and a doctor fee for a typical total of $6,000 or more for non-surgical treatment "

How fucken poor are you 6k.

PAY HEALTHY! PAY HEALTHY!

is a radical idea you commie thief
ALSO
health "COVERAGE"
what new era of euphemisms
where INSURANCE is called CARE

FUCK YOU ALL YOU NIGGER JEWS
YOU WILL ALL BURN
HOLOCAUST 2.0 ELECTRIC BOOGALOO REDUX

>Doctor visits last under 7 minutes on average and you no longer have a doctor. It's all clinics.
>You'll never see the same doctor twice soon.
>Most are not even real; they rotate in from research positions and give zero fucks.

You can get a dedicated family doctor, user. It doesn't have to be all walk-in clinic.

People like to call healthcare a right. Its not, but even if I was going to concede that it is to compromise, it only works if people exercise that other important 'r' word; Responsibility.

People always want rights without responsibilities. You cant have that.

>Also note: when you have to worry about the efficiency of public systems like this, your populace is a lot more concerned about who gets let into the country -- we take in a lot of immigrants, but we're very selective. We take in rich Chinese, Indians with advanced degrees, and so forth. Canada does a good job of screening our immigrants overall (Quebec, not so much), and one of the reasons is that we have a social contract that requires all of our citizens to be productive and contribute to society.


/thread and US Democrats and liberals BTFOFAT

>Had I been in the US, I doubtlessly wouldn't have been covered by insurance, and would have been bankrupt. I would have had to drop out of school.
source?

What province you in? I've never heard of such a thing you better know that doctor. They make more money running malls now.

What kind of work do you get in Canada with a master's in economics besides teaching?

I DESERVE HEALTHY! YOU PAY!

Alberta. Is it different elsewhere?

universal health coverage is NOT a radical idea.

Everyone gets covered. Everyone pays less per person. The benefits to society as a whole in increased productivity are amazing.

stupid faggot shills parroting the talking points of the oligarchy will disagree.

A free market healthcare system is impossible: the buyer can't negotiate effectively on a price, because the value of being alive to the buyer is effectively infinite.

Also note that most healthcare (the important kind, that you'll only need a few times in your life) would be more than anyone could save up for or finance, necessitating 'health insurance' -- then you don't negotiate directly with the seller (the hospital, the surgeon), the insurance company does. The only thing that you negotiate for is for the cost of the insurance.

How does one sell the cheapest insurance possible and capture the most marketshare? Obviously: reduce the amount of times you pay out anything. Don't insure people who are likely to get sick. When they get sick, try and ensure that they're not actually covered. Create a contract that has a gigantic deductible, so that none of your customers are inclined to actually use it.

Insurance companies, especially health insurance companies, are fundamentally pathological elements in a capitalist system: they need to exist, but they don't have any actual economic output -- they employ lawyers to argue with the hospital and their customers, but don't really produce anything of value themselves. Universal healthcare makes them redundant. Those employees go and work in fields that actually produce something of economic value, instead of shuffling paper around.

It's still a "thing" but it's reserved for people who knows doctors in real life. Like I said the rotate through clinics now. Even in Calgary.

So if you have a doctor not in a Clinic and it's your personal doctor that's bloody rare.

I would suspect your family has had connections to that doctor for awhile or you do.

MUH HEALTHYYYYY!

Fuck comparing the Canadian health system to anything we have in the US. let's see how well that system would work for 10X the population.

Then consider the quality of the care.
What doctor would make the decision to set up their practice in Canada instead of the US where they can make some real money?
And you want that doctor making decisions for your treatment? No thanks.

PAY! MY! HEALTHY!

DIE, PORKY!

Beware any policy or program with the words "universal" or "comprehensive" in it.

>free healthcare
>free
>FREE

If you think college students (or 90% of people) can drop 6 grand on an unexpected thing and still be okay financially, you're grossly mislead. The average person is screwed if they have an emergency and need to pay out more than a few hundred dollars.

People have way less money than you think they do, user.

>I would suspect your family has had connections to that doctor for awhile or you do.

Nope. I started seeing her at one of your rotating walk-in clinics. I had a long term thing that required I see her several times over a period of years. She added me to her regular patient list.

She did move around to a few different clinics over that time and I would have to see her wherever she happened to be working (by appointment). Thankfully she's got her own clinic now in partnership with two other GPs.

under universal healthcare you are worth more to the hospital when you are dead because they can harvest your organs and conduct more surgeries "saving lives" then keeping you alive as would happen under a more free market system where the patient is the emphasis, not hospital turnover in the form of government supplied payments for surgeries.

Yeah, our healthcare system is awesome.

>We do a good job screening immigrants
So that is why every other gas station is staffed by immigrants who barely speak the language and our housing market is not affordable. Not to mention that our migrants are so successful that we need entire programs dedicated to them to keep them out of poverty. Such good migrants.

PAY! *gobbles food* MY! *snorts like a hog eating from a trough * HEALTHY! *spits food across room while trying to talk*

>A free market healthcare system is impossible: the buyer can't negotiate effectively on a price, because the value of being alive to the buyer is effectively infinite.

Wrong. Besides, most healthcare issues and services are not life and death.

Prices aren't set by negotiating. They are set primarily by supply and demand as well as the costs associated with the service.

universal police enforcement
universal fire protection
universal roads and sewers
universal K-12 education
universal social security retirement
universal military defense
universal ALL THE FUCKING SHIT THAT MAKES A COUNTRY NOT A PIECE OF SHIT

Waiting lists. If it's not life threatening you might be waiting several years for treatment. If it is, you still might be waiting several months.

Anyone in Australia with an above average salary has private health insurance because the public system is so unreliable.

Kek. This looks like something out of Hostel

HEALTHY! PAY MY HEALTH!

PAY HEALTHY NOW!

Universal healthcare is a coined phrase. Here is food for thought: not all universal healthcare is equal.

If you live in a society that has an inefficient or crumbling bureaucracy (i.e. almost every country besides Switzerland or Japan for an example) you shouldn't even be allowed to even think those words.

America has become really stupid, and is in love with buzzwords and mob mentality now. The exact opposite of what we were created to be.

That thing was designed to break our system in trailblaze for NWO shit. Even the Democrats who initially supported it turned against it, and the only people who truly benefited from it were companies: insurance companies.

All our income tax doesn't go to our government, but the very private bank called the Federal Reserve for interest only. Before you start complaining about privileges stop the hemorrhaging coming out of the side of your country first...if you can. We really can't now with the momentum, and everything.

This whole system and the world we now live in is literally designed to break. Planned obsolescence. They [international financiers] created the problem, and will offer the solution but you won't like it.

The temporary foreign worker program (thanks Harper) allowed a bunch of unskilled people to come in temporarily to do shit jobs. That got killed off.

I don't like it either but they're:
>not citizens
>not staying

HEALTHY! RIGHT TO HEALTHY!

In theory, universal healthcare can be very beneficial at keeping down the costs and gouging of the healthcare system which its notorious for. Through pooling everyone in the nation together under one de facto "insurance" run by the government. You shift the barganing power for pharma prices with big pharma from the corporations to the people as a whole. Especially if applied in the United States, pharma would have nowhere else to run, and be forced to negotiate legitimate treatments at reasonable prices.

Only issue is that you know who (pic related is a hint) would abuse the fuck out of an otherwise pragmatic system to end the pharma jew, not to mention jews themselves running insurance companies and the government.

Honestly our nations in general would be virtually utopias had (((their))) influence been nipped at the bud, thanks (((allies))).

The downside is you wait two years for surgery, it gets infected, and you die.

Insurance is a scam. There are free market alternatives to it that exist here but they're not commonplace because of the advent of employee health plans. Honestly those things are what ruined healthcare the most. There are doctors that allow you to pay monthly to them for service. If we didn't have the regulations that we do with health insurance then most of your constructs about how "greedy jews" wouldn't pay out and would have poor insurance options with high deductibles would have to face other insurance providers options that would easily outcompete them.

>New Zealand

Wrong.

We have a public-private system. Poor people get shitty public care. If you have an emergency (heart attack, stroke, gunshot, basically anything life threatening) you cannot be denied treatment if you can't pay.

Anything cosmetic or that isn't life threatening is not covered (example off the top of my head is hip/knee replacements -- these are not life-threatening so if you can't pay the $20,000 bill then tough shit, get a wheelchair crybaby).

People who can pay go to nice private hospitals where the care is better and you are treated faster.

This is the best system imo

>upside
don't get bankrupt because you broke your arm or to give birth
>downside
having to wait months for non-critical chirurgies

do you realize how popular this board is now?behind Sup Forums and Sup Forums this might be the most popular board

all of those things except for military make a country a piece of shit

This.

Do I spend two days on a Candian claimed impossibly and aqquire my benefits or do i leap into the wild and live off the land that my benevolent overlords provided for me.

My virgin ass can only point to so many people while living the liberal dream.

HEALTHY!

Holy fuck. I just noticed the flag.

Puerto Rico wants free shit.

Get a load of that. Puerto Rico thinks more government spending would be better.

HAHAHAHAHA. It's never been more clear that Socialism is a mental disease that prevents you from properly seeing reality.

Public healthcare dont work in big=burocratic and corrupt countries

thats horse shit. ive never had a wait for less than 20 minutes

We don't in anyway have free market healthcare. What what have a is a mixture of cronyism and socialism calling itself freemarket healthcare.

I have an aunt in Canada that's been waiting years for knee surgery. Poor old lady hobbles around. I could go tomorrow and get my knees replaced for a small copay

I'm offended at the conspicuous absence of Brazil on that list.
Is it because our universal healthcare doesn't work?
Is is because it doesn't work?
Is it because it doesn't work AND still is a massive money shredder in our state budget?
Is it because it works so fucking bad private healthcare prices are inflating because everyone needs to get it, becoming a de-factor second socialized healthcare?
I just don't know.

It's called finance, $25 a month. Don't play stupid. Medicade helped the poor anyway i'm talking about a stupid Canadian getting hurt down south.

LIberal sheep dog man. I can smell it on you the media programming. Take a shower.

Yeah, okay, but you're arguing for an ideal free market. If there were an ideal free market, I'm sure it would work...

There won't be an ideal free market. If even the US, the most capitalist country in the world where a large percentage of the population endorses free market solutions CAN'T bootstrap a free market healthcare system, I don't see it happening anywhere else.

The winners in the insurance game become very wealthy, and they can influence politicians, buy media, and so forth, and rig the system to their benefit; so yeah, I don't think an "ideal free market" is ever going to be really possible in healthcare. It's probably better for the US to cut their losses, admit that the system is broken, and replace it with something that has a better track record.

user I am very disturbed by the amount of these photos you seem to have saved.

WANT HEALTHY! YOU PAY HEALTHY!

I literally just Googled "super obese people" and am posting the best(worst) ones.

HEALTHY HEALTHY!

Medicaid is a joke that's bankrupting the US.

Why do you want to fucking finance your healthcare? Why do you want to pay money to the Jews for insurance, and then finance your deductible and pay interest on that too? That's not an efficient system, and it doesn't need to exist. The people employed in it are parasites, and they can be cut out completely.

>it has been proven that free markets are the most efficient at allocating resources to where they need to be in addition your socialist market is the opposite.
you sounds like religious cultist

You must live in a commie state with a million mexicans

>A free market healthcare system is impossible
>Your 'free market' system ranks 50/55 for efficiency.
>I already have a masters

In what, self-embarrassment?

Maybe they're hoping u die in the waiting room

We tried that and it ended up terrible. I'm not one to say that capitalism has it's problem with the rich purchasing influence. It's similar to the problem of expanding governments being taken by the powerhungry. All we can do is struggle to get to where we believe we should be. I'm in favor of trying to get it back to an "ideal free market" as opposed to "an ideal socialised" solution.

...

WANT MORE FOOD AND FREE HEALTHY!

GIVE FREE HEALTHY!

Wait times, less well stocked hospitals, and worse survival rates of living threatening diseases like cancer and such. America's healthcare system is shit for 2 reasons. 1. We are all fat fucks that smoke, drink, and drive all the time, with tons of niggers that shoot each other and get stds all the time and tons of people that live in the middle of nowhere. 2. We have a super inefficient """"""""free market""""""" system with so many absurd restrictions and rules I don't even think the experts fully understand it. Funnily enough everyone only ever talks about socialized medicine like it is some fantastic thing. It is shit, it is just better than our system which is liquid shit. Nobody discusses the Swiss system or the Singaporean system or even the proposals to loosen restrictions on the market to drive down prices.

FREE HEALTHY KEEP ME ALIVE, WANT MORE LIFE AND FOOD!

DON'T TAKE AWAY FREE HEALTHY! I HAVE RIGHT TO FREE HEALTH!

GIVE HEALTHY!

This is bullshit by the way, keep spouting wrong shit though.