Does anyone else avoid researching leftist/postmodernist ideology too deeply because they're worried they might start...

Does anyone else avoid researching leftist/postmodernist ideology too deeply because they're worried they might start believing it?

"And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you."

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indiana.edu/~educy520/sec6342/week_05/sci_rejects_postmod02.pdf
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youtube.com/watch?v=YC1pvjyKYr4.
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nope they cant cover up the weakness there ideals hold. you may think that you need to lean left more if you are a populist but there are many logical values you will keep.

Shit was indoctrinated into all of us, researching marxism and it's causes is something they don't want anyone to do, nice try though op.

Not trolling desu

As someone on here said before, "Postmodernism isn't untrue, it's dangerously true"

Which I think more or less means that the things that they say are technically true, but they aren't "functionally true"

Like yes, technically a lot of things are socially constructed, but that doesn't mean they're "not real" and can just be tossed out

u just posted the father of postmodernism AAAAAHAHHAHAHA

You can't call yourself well informed if you don't. If you're right, you have nothing to fear by researching the alternate viewpoints.

How can you even form legitimate opinions without looking at arguments from the other side? Also, sometimes they are genuinely right about minor things, assuming that they are totally wrong about everything is just dogmatism.

Yeah I know

The thing is what it seems like to me is that their beliefs are only technically true. But they aren't "really true". It's hard for me to explain. I don't know what really true means.

...

Also, I think this is true for atheism as well. Which is why I'm afraid of it, because I'm an atheist now and could never not be an atheist. The arguments for atheism are too logical. What if it's the same for postmodernism? What if it's the actual ultimate redpill?

There are lots and lots of idiots on Sup Forums, that are incapable of any thought or understanding, or even writing or reading some intelligent comment, something other than "Cool! /ourguy/" or "fuck (((you))) faggot!". I am a communist, and I've read Nietzsche and some Mein Kampf.

What is your point? Are you saying that pro-atheism arguments just seem convincing, but aren't actually correct, or are you saying that maybe postmodernism is genuinely true? If it is indeed true, then what is wrong "falling" for their arguments?

i'm smart enough to not change my ideals just because i learned something new that sounded "nice"

just listen to Peterson, he has a great synthetical and analytical skill. you can read it if you understand that the post modernists premiss is this : "nothing makes sense, therefore: marx".youtube.com/watch?v=DAncrmE6YV0

Okay I think I thought of a good analogy

Let's take money for instance

One person believes that money is real. Like a normal person does. You use it to exchange value with people, etc. And it works.

Then another person is like "Money is just paper, it's all fake! Money's not even real!"

Technically they're both correct. But if everyone adopted the second person's view the entire system would collapse. It's technically true but it's not "really true" because money, although it's "fake", it's still "real".

Although on that note even though the second person's argument is technically true I don't buy it because I can see how it's bullshit. So maybe I could see how all of postmodernism's arguments are all bullshit as well.

> I've read Nietzsche and some Mein Kampf
I hate you idiotic Dugin pendants. Do not speak in the name of Hitler or Nietzsche, even a children's book would be too much for you.

The modern world was formed by people who read too many books and lost all originality.

Modern book readers as a group helped create the postmodern dead end. Blind faith that every problem created by the mind can be also solved the same is the ultimate tail chasing exercise.

All philosophical problems are a consequence of non-rational organic processes. Post-modern sickness is a simply path toward new equilibrium, nothing else.

Oh I understood what you meant by things that are only technically true, since they are most likely just reductio ad absurdum fallacies, I just didn't get how it relates to atheism.

The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. - Niels Bohr
There are many different layers of truth, all are valid depending on how you view them

>fuck (((you))), faggit!!!
Thanks for illustrating.

No, I believe right wingers should understand Marixst theory better than the Marxists. It also comes in handy when shutting down SJWs. Leftists get really fucked up when you can effortlessly cite how their ideas contradict dialectical materialism, and class consciousness, and blah blah blah. I've made college kids almost cry by insinuating they deserve to be shot for being revisionist traitors. It's fun.

The best thing to do is understand WHY Marxism failed, and WHAT is got wrong. It's not just about "human nature", or bad economic planning. It's much more interesting, and probably a requirement to see our current circumstances clearly. I have become a right wing accelerationist, along the lines of Nick Land, which incidentally have a solid foundation in Marxism. Modern Chinese theorist have some useful things to say as well--"Socialism with Chinese Characteristics", and the essentially indefinite postponement of communism as a theoretical principal. You can run circles around leftists if you understand that stuff, because they all feel instinctively guilty about arguing against Marxism. It's funny to watch.

I suppose it's an example of the 'agree and amplify' tactic.

fuck (((you))), faggit!!!

>Ignored Nietzsche's own words (pic what I posted).
>Ignore Hitler's own words.
>Rape their ideology.
>Ignored that Hilter wanted to exterminate russia (the main theme of "Mein Kampf").
>Follows Dugin a Populist, Ignored that Nietzsche was the greatest enemy of populism.
>Ignored that communism is a mass ideology and that Nietzsche's central political idea was against the masses.

You are the greatest scum of the earth.

>tfw no weak minded you start believing anything if you read too much about it

not at all. they legitimately don't even have any principles or ideals. their entire philosophy is just meant to kill white people and destroy capitalism. the people who support it are all sick and twisted or naive useful idiots. i was an actual liberal cause i thought they meant what they said as in not murdering people or being racist. then this election showed they actually just hate white men and want to dominate them. they don't have any principles so the entire leftist/postmodernist ideology is bullshit.

they believe everything is just power games. they don't care about equality. that's just a good slogan to get christians to go along with it. minorities are just tools to be used by them hence blacks are left behind and nobody ever tries to fix their problem including obama. i think the only true things leftism supports is white women destroying white women and marxist destroying capitalism. everything else is just smoke and mirrors

Nietzsche has nothing to do with Hitler. Hitler misread the entire Ubermensch ideology and Nietzsche considered himself a pole and hated Germany.

life is meaningless and it is hitlerious

OP you're a huge fucking faggot as always

Yea, but to say "it's just paper" is to misunderstand it's worth or utility. Yes it's a piece of paper but it's a piece of paper with attached worth based on trust. The paper WAS supposed to be a stand-in representation of a fraction of nationally owned rare minerals.

It's like saying there's no way for you to travel faster than a jog because you refuse to believe a car is anything more than a hunk of metal. Or there's no such thing as a hill because the definition is man-made and arbitrary.

The hill still exists regardless of what man-made social relevance you give it.

Bottom line: There are objective truths and this fact alone destroys postmodernism because all postmodernism tries to do is manipulate or burn down language used to describe objective truths while they still exist.

No there aren't different truths. You confusing things here.
There are two different and separate planes of discourse.
If you say I think X is, or X should be, or do/don't do X, you are not in the realm of truth but in the realm of opinions, propaganda and feelings/emotion.
If you say X is, either you are right or wrong and the truth only comes through scientific empiric method of observation.
For instance you say, your door is closed. Either you are right, or you are wrong, and after examination of my door I can say which one it is.
If you say your door should remain closed, it is an order.
If you say you should keep the door closed to keeo niggers out, it's an opinion.
If you say you should open it to let refugees in, it's an opinion.
All three are to a certain extent propaganda and hold no shred of truth because it's not the core of it. All are of equal value and depending on your own propaganda influenced interior thoughts one is "true" and the others are not. Bullshit, none is, it's all fee fees with no base.
Thr only way to have a decent political system and ideology is to define a common cause, which scientifically is the blossoming and conservation of our spécies, and from there apply empiric unbiased method to any decision we have to take. For instance is letting people fleeing wars entering the country a good thing ?
Muh feelings they suffer, - leftie.
Muh feelings they brown, - right wing
After analysis of different countries it results that the cultural differences are too strong, stronger than the previous inter european migration waves, which results in people being unable to blend in which creates stress, uncertainty and insecurity in the population which in turn cripples our future and well being, ie it goes against our primal goal of conservation and blossoming, so it is not a good thing given the parameters because it is incompatibles with the greater goal of our species. - Only correct answer. No fee fees, no spéculation.

Dummy
That quote applies to the redpill, not the bluepill
You got it all backwards

No? I literally started off my journey in post modernist before I ever became Traditionalists, if anything it turned me further to the right than having stayed away from it.

Have any of you even read das kapital?

The Alt-Right is Post-Post-Modern, you're safe.

You are afraid of enlightenment? Really? Knowledge does not take place.

No that's not the the entire concept of deconstructionism is a logical fallacy in itself.

>Does anyone else avoid researching leftist/postmodernist ideology too deeply because they're worried they might start believing it?

Nope. The very idea that an argument could convince me is all the reason more to examine it.

You really shouldn't. It is patently stupid and nihilistic. It is clearly a thought virus created by our greatest ally. Just read one postmodern "science" paper and you will see it is nothing but idiotic new speak

>how their ideas contradict dialectical materialism, and class consciousness

Another pseudo-intellectual, Marxism is a pure materialist ideology, modern leftists follow Marxism closely. Marx too was not a worker, no Marxist ideologue was ever a worker.
He never read Nietzsche, Nietzsche is exactly the opposite of Dugin or Stalin. National Bolsheviks are the stupidest people on earth.

Only weak willed and immature people are afraid to challenge their own ideas and to put them to test continuosly.
Because that is the only way you can discern, learn, improve and be batlle hardened. Reading and discussing and challenging your own ideas (not principles, mind you) it's like tempering steel.
Fleeing and safe-spacing is what commies do, they continuosly flee reality or redefine the meaning of words or move goalposts.

everything is run by sociopaths.
the lies are just packaged differently

>postmodernism is lefitsm

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA

Opposite, im already a right winger, so im afraid i'll make my own echo chamber unless i read enough lefty bs.

Well I actually did buy into it all before becoming redpilled, it was actually because of how far down I've gotten into insanity that I became redpilled first hand

no, you were socially attacked by a cult and gave in becasue you could not handle reality

Please never post Nietzsche again. You have no idea.

>Implying liberal isn't as bad leftist

Commie scum

Triggered? Protecting your safespace?

Literally a right wing SJW.

It was required reading at my university. Not even kidding.

It was also laughably shit.

The fact that I've read them doesn't mean I've embraced them to any degree. I am a classical communist and have nothing to do with Dugin.

>Nietzsche has nothing to do with Hitler.
True. But Hitler had quite a lot to do with Nietzsche.

>/Leftypol/, capital of the permaban, is giving people shit about being triggered

Oh am I laffin

>Hitler.misread the Untermensche idealogy

No he just didn't suck Nietzsche's dick and disagreed with him on the front of liking Jews and all people having an inherent quality to change ad infinitum, in other words Hitler thought a person had a finite amount of ability to change based on his own stance on biological determinism.

you are a fucking idiot. think back to school where you got bullied and terrible grades and tell me youre not. you cant put your thoughts into words besides "I dont know what really true means". you should think much harder and longer before you try to make words. fucking embarrassment.

>I'm a "classical" communism

Anarcho communism came.about at the same time the Bolshevik revolution happened, even if it was very esoteric. Define "classical"

Leninism.

I didn't ban anyone, and I'm not a maoist with special needs. I support total freedom of speech, perhaps you disagree

>Unironically a tankie

Topkek

Soo leftist anarchism?

In other words, you name two historical figures who hate your ideology (and your person in the case of Hitler), and use that as justification for your political ideas. And those who do not agree with you are idiots?

>freedom of speech makes you ancom

Guessing being right wing and supporting free speech makes you an ancap then

>The arguments for atheism are too logical.
Kek

No i would need a labotomy to start beliving in communism.

>Hurr-durr, get a load of muh memes, faggit
Thanks for illustrating.

>In other words, you name two historical figures who hate your ideology (and your person in the case of Hitler), and use that as justification for your political ideas.

No. I was talking about them in the context of researching hostile ideology. Which is what this thread is about.

Post-Moderanism is for those who are smart enough to know, but not smart enough to understand. Christianity is the real Enlightenment.

FETCH THE DRILL COMRADES

No. I made it through the public school system without being indoctrinated.

Nietzsche realized how much postmodernism sucked and dedicated the bulk of his work grappling with how society can function while being nihilist, materialist faggots.

>Being right wing and being pro freedom a "speech" makes you a faggot

Pretty much. I support freedom of speech in theory but I understand that there are times when it needs to be violently cracked down on when a society no longer deserves the right.

But I assume you're a libertarian commie then

Of course not.

You need to know about their ideology, or you're just a retard dogmatic.

no you dumb nigger if its true its true

weirdly enough, for me, researching leftist/postmodernist ideology deeply is what changed my views from being a liberal. it went something like karl marx -> john cage -> derrida -> frankfurt school -> post-structuralism -> had an epiphany that the natural end result of leftist ideology is complete and total nihilism.

from there i decided that human life is good and life is worth living and that beauty in art and nature has objective value. had i not also read schopenhauer and huxley along the way i might be fucked.

>Muh memes
>Stalin dindu nuffin
>Mao was awesome
>How can you NOT like Pol-Pot?

No, I have no trouble reading opposing ideas. I've read the likes of Adorno, Horkheimer, Foucault, Sartre, etc. Adorno is quite interesting he actually had some conservative tendencies in that he was something of an elitist and a proponent of high culture despite his Marxism. I would recommend his book "Minima Moralia" if you want to get a feel for his outlook on things. Other than that, there are areas of leftism I have no time for, things like radical feminism and gender-queer theory and that sort of tripe. I could read Marx critique capitalism and find some interesting insights but when it comes to leftist theories relating to feminism, gender and sexuality in general you find some of the most wretched garbage imaginable.

lol no. I'm a scientist, its against my job description to believe in it. Science and Post-modernism are natural enemies.

indiana.edu/~educy520/sec6342/week_05/sci_rejects_postmod02.pdf

quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/reality.html

Post-modernism is a cancer on science, and should be considered terrorism. It spreads anti-intellectualism and is a threat to the scientific method. It (and philosophy and the humanities altogether preferably) needs to be eliminated.

No, I understand why they're wrong so it just aggravates me

If u read both sides and get converted by marxism fantasy, I mean u might as well join them because you're obviously a better fit there. You nigger retard. Also it might be easy to fall for one thing and swallow the rest for some.

Why the fuck would you waste your time reading leftist and Marxist shit?

;

Know your enemy user

So that you know what you're arguing against and can embarrass lefties by poking holes in their idealogy?

How daft are you? Anybody with a brain can entertain a notion without accepting it as a fact.

>Stalin dindu nuffin
It's not one or the other, as a black-and-white mentality idiot might think.
He committed quite a lot of errors, not even 1/10th of what Cold War propaganda blames him of.

>Mao was awesome
He was, really. A genius, his only flaw was lack of knowledge and expertise in economics. He appointed people who had those, nontheless.

>How can you NOT like Pol-Pot?
Not being an idiot, I realise that there are a lot of people who are great statesmen and people while not communists and the other way around.

>I insulate myself from ideas outside of my circlejerking echochamber because I'm an impressionable child who desperately needs to feel validated by fitting in with the trumpcucks on Sup Forums

No surprises here.

I support you getting a helicopterride

If postmodernism was entirely false/unpersuasive it would not be the force that it is. You can't run from it, either, because its everywhere.

But just as there's a truth to postmodernism, like any system of thought its woefully incomplete (which itself is a postmodern claim about systems of thought; they can NEVER be complete). And the way in which its incomplete, I think, is very important.

JBP gets into this here: youtube.com/watch?v=YC1pvjyKYr4. As a bonus, the interviewer is a leftist struggling with his faith, something I think many of us former lefties can relate to.

The more you read, the stupider it looks, unless you are a very weak thinker.

>Why the fuck would you waste your time reading a fundament of the most influential political ideology in the world currently and in the recent past?

I don't know, to not be completely unaware about politics at least?

I actually have to work and put a lot of effort to just have a decent life. I am likely to die because of it in my early fifties, so no, leftist horseshit has absolutely no effect on me, it makes me just hate people more and more.

>Mao was a genius

There's a bit of an interesting rock-paper-scissors relationship I've noticed between faith, science, and postmodernism. I'm far from the first to notice it. Faith struggles to defend itself against Science, which in turn struggles to defend itself against Postmodernism, which in turn struggles to defend itself against Faith.

Just read summaries of it. There's no requirement to actually read thousands of pages of trash.

For example, by watching Jordan Peterson I've learned nearly all there is to know about particular ideologies in far less time by listening to then at the same time I play TF2 or CSGO

The Alt-Right is the evolution of post-modernism.

The post-modernists looked at western culture and said nothing is fundamentally true and therefore nothing matters, so fuck god, fuck family, fuck children. The universe is darkness so you might as well laugh and be a hedonist.

Alt-Right culture hackers and memers do the opposite. We look at our contemporary post-modern culture, and we say;
If nothing has fundamental meaning, then we can create whatever we want. If truth is just mass belief we can create whatever truth suits us best. It's meme magic.

And post-modernists can scoff and say it's all pointless, but guess what? They have to live in our culture, where the "ok" hand gesture means white power, where John Podesta is a suspected pedophile, where race realism is becoming mainstream, and Donald Trump is president.

>Mao was a genius
>Oh wait what happened to all the sparrows woops there is 30 million dead by conservative estimates

>Stalin dindu nuffin, muh cold war propoganda
>Fuck Khruschev

Well at least you didn't defend the Killing fields.

>By listening to a fucking podcasts while playing video.gamea, I now know a leftie's own idealogy better than he does

You probably couldn't make it through the first 2 chapters of Das Kapital

Nah I've noticed it. Which is why think science should just pick up the scissors and stab post-modernism in the throat. Its is very funny that people don't realize this "war" is going on right under their noses but don't understand it. They see it in terms of alt_right, nationalism, globalism ect., I see it in terms of Post Modernism and Modernism. People never really stop to think why Thuderf00t and Dawkins despite considering themselves progressives are so vehemently against SJWs and I don't think they do either. As for the alt_right and "neo-nazis", I don't think its anything of the sort, I think they're the post-modern right.

The right wing on this board has done exactly what OP said, they gazed at SJW post-modernists and learned from them. Copied them. They've seen them advocating for "black bodies", against "cultural appropriation", against privilege and most importantly, against white hegemony and western culture in general, and they've taken those arguments and flipped them for whites, advocating white safe spaces, arguing against white genocide and migrant privilege ect.

Just as Modernism created Communism and Capitalism as their right and left with fascism as its third way, I think we're seeing post-modernism form its right and left: SJWs vs Alt_right. Time will only tell what the third way will be.

not really, i'd encourage it. it makes you more rounded as a person, dipshit. literally burying your head in the sand to other ideologies and learning nothing about them, is ignorant and unintellectual.

the more about history one knows, the more one can see how an ideology like communism will consistently fail when applied to a large scale. reading about communism you go "oh wow, this sounds great, why aren't we doing this?" and you "believe" in communism - but then are quickly brought to reality the more you learn, how it is inherently flawed when applied to real life. imagine if all communists were to say "guys, should we not read about capitalism? we might start believing it?"


but in this case would be different, because they would eventually see what an amazing success capitalism has been for the world.

just learn more. there is no "bad knowledge" dipshit, just knowledge.

>If nothing has fundamental meaning, then we can create whatever we want. If truth is just mass belief we can create whatever truth suits us best. It's meme magic.
>Newfags actually think this

Yeah no the alt rejects modernism let alone post modernism, to be "Post post modernist" you would have to accept post-structuralism and deconstructionism, the alt right outright rejects this being a soft core Traditionalists movement.

When has anyone from the alt right ever said "we can just create whatever we want" and not supported objective truth?

That's just you protecting your reality bubble because you are right wing due to emotion and not due to logic and reason.

I've been into the deeps of hell, and even there, I couldn't see why leftards beliebe im such bullshit.

>Oh wait what happened to all the sparrows woops there is 30 million dead by conservative estimates
You do understand it is a rather minor flow, compared with an impossibly rapid and stable growth in wealth, prosperity, security and power he had created? An amasingly efficient government? An incredibly influential ideology and thought? Impossibly successful military campaigns and victories, the whole doctrines that were utilized all around Asia and Latin America?

>Stalin dindu nuffin, muh cold war propoganda
>Fuck Khruschev
So? Did I deny that he wasn't perfect and committed serious mistakes? Khruschev, unlike Cold War propaganda, was quite on point with his numbers.

The more I read it the more I'm convinced it's bullshit. Their view of the world is truly warped beyond belief.