How did Greece go from producing the founding philosophical, mathematical...

How did Greece go from producing the founding philosophical, mathematical, and scientific foundation of Western Civilization to being a country which cannot financially manage itself, and is much dirtier and less nice than many other former barbarian countries, like Germany, Austria, and Norway?

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Because the Greeks today are different people from the Greeks then. The same applies to the European countries you mentioned

Modern Greeks=Turks

They forsook the ideas of governance and society that made them great, while Western Europeans, and from them the first American colonists, adopted and expanded on those ideals.

Why the current Western world is going to shit at the moment is that we seem to be following the same fate.

Reminder that the first western philosopher/scientist was a semitic Phoenician

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thales_of_Miletus

How will Sup Forums ever recover?

Remember once visited Greece before the euro (was around 1995 i guess). Was a nice place full of happy people.

...

I 'll be brief. Our men were killed in WW2. Then a civil war happened and more men were killed. We 've been through some very tough times.

All things considered, I am pretty happy with how we 've done up until the crisis.

the problem with the west is that its easy to say things like this in hindsight

the greeks would be very sceptical of this evolution, just as you are sceptical of the evolution of the west now

and? we should glorify him and purge people who don't (leftists and marxists)

This. Most on Sup Forums are totally clueless or know nothing about Greek history. If they did they'd know about the constant rebellions against the Turks and Germans and the brutal massacres of civilians that the west just overlooked or forgot. Greeks are pretty resilient, most of europe and certainly not fucking americans have any right to criticise them.

>the problem with the west is that its easy to say things like this in hindsight

This, "The past is never dead. It's not even past."

unfortunately this is kind of the logical conclusion of it all.

First of all, the Ancient Greek ethics and civilization got murdered and desecrated by Christians. Libraries were burned to the ground, scientific publications were banned, and Academies were shut down in the name of (((God))).
Second of all, 400 years of living under Ottoman rules separated us from the rest of Europe, and taught us to cheat the state in order to survive.
Thirdly, every single politicians that has been in the government in the last 200 years, except Kapodistrias and Venizelos, is or was corrupt. Every. Single. One. Combine that with an uneducated populace and you have a recipe for disaster.
As for the dirt, you can thank all the Albanians and all the gypsies that live hear, they are all criminals and have absolutely no respect for Greece.

>amerishit
kill yourself

implying you aren't going the same way

how's saddiq doing?

Because Greeks barely have any European R1b genes left. They're like 80 percent Arabic Caucasian.

>temporary representative position as mayor of London
>the only city in Britain approaching the US average for percentage of whites in the population
>versus a black muslim president for 8 years

why do you guys even attempt to comment?

from the 23andme stats that i've seen most of us have at most 1% middle eastern genes, the most i've seen was something like 10%
aka yet another burger makes a dumb baseless claim

> Thats Manchurian candidate gay tranny fucking black muslim to you!

I don't follow you. I'm saying that the problem is evolution, or just change, from the most basic and core ideals of Western society: rule of law, individual freedoms, equality.

Don't get me wrong, those are very nebulous, big picture fundamentals that each generation needs to decide how they apply to current human life. I think we are doing a terrible job at that, and that there are even groups trying to actually get rid of some of them, namely the rule of law.

Same reason why the low iq mulatto underclass of the future will be left wondering about how their ancestor built civilization be for they got destroyed by dysgenics.

they only go back a couple of hundred years

maybe the mixing happened before that

ther'es nothing western about the concept of the rule of law, it's a profoundly eastern idea that you should be beholden to written concepts that never change. Guess how democracy occurred in the west? Reform to suit the purposes of certain parties, nothing more. It's a means of manipulation not liberation.

but most greeks lived in the ottoman empire up until the early 20th century, why would the mixing suddenly stop?

> a country which cannot financially manage itself

You failed in your first sentence.

I guesss you're one of those people who belive Greece "overspent", got into denbt and can't pay it back...

Idiot.

>How did Greece go from producing the founding philosophical, mathematical, and scientific foundation of Western Civilization to being a country which cannot financially manage itself, and is much dirtier and less nice than many other former barbarian countries, like Germany, Austria, and Norway?
Evolution.
youtube.com/watch?v=0jFGNQScRNY

Karteroumen

The diaspora remembers

No, it had to do with increased borrowing power they had from joining the EU and being tied to other economies.

Ah.

Smarter than I thought. Unusual for Sup Forums.

My apologies.

first of all the first philosophers were disliked by the general public second we converted to cristianity which although made us more peaceful it also made us more emotional making us stop killing babies these are what has changed our way of thought though it hasn't changed as much as i had originally thought if you compare their overall behavior. but for the modern reasons the reason is corruption, joining the eurozone and our national sport tax evasion even though we could have survived without having clean politicians the true problem is the eurozone cause we joined it when we had an economical problem hidden from the public when we joined. also greeks are not turks for anyone that thinks that we have mostly mixed with slavs and even that isn't that common in my home town we had like 200 of them but that was that. the reason why greeks and west turks are alike is cause WEST turks are mostly of slavs greeks by ancestory.

Medieterran stopped being that relevant with the development of the new world and north Europe.
Better ships and airplanes made the Medieterran sea less important too.

When the hellenic civilisation was in the golden age, being in the west medieterran already made you rich.

It's american values, not western values.
This

the only constant is change, and yet conservatives exist

the whole point is that its the new generation who adapts to reality, while the old stays behind

even the old greeks wouldn't agree with us on what constitutes good change vs what constitutes bad.
Im sure that some of them would find us sitting here talking on Sup Forums as the biggest form of human degeneracy they have seen- and confronted with that idea, they might even change their values from freedom to authority just to stop us being this degenerate

that is whats happening now too, its just old people having to leave behind the old world

Sure i too have my judgments about whats good and whats bad, but i try to make a distinction between "facts and values

fact: the world is forever changing
values might stay, but their application is the problem. Greeks loved freedom back then, but they might have stoned us to death if they saw this site

idealism is fantastic, but very few people can pull it off. For the rest the only important thing to remember is "men of the future might fight their way to freedoms we don't even know exist"

>Greeks loved freedom back then, but they might have stoned us to death if they saw this site

Diogenes would have loved Sup Forums

Are there any faults in National Socialism?

I think we are mostly in agreement, although I think the ancient Greeks would absolutely love the open discussion we are having, especially given how rare that is nowadays. They were big on open dialogue, I thought.

But I agree, the world is constantly changing. That's why it is each generation's duty to evaluate what's important to them and aim for that. Perhaps, and perhaps not, where our opinions differ is that I think that evaluation is best done through certain lenses than others, as history has shown. My point is that the ancient Greeks had some pretty good lenses, to continue the metaphor. Not perfect to be sure, and they have been evolved by those that followed and will continue to evolve as you say. And I agree, they should continue to evolve; I just think there are some big, clear red lines that are dangerous to cross in that evolution.

Freedom is a thing from St. Augustine.

They embraced irony

I think we are in agreement actually

we might not agree with the lenses used, but who does? Thats the whole driving factor of evolution

even the authoritarian left, and right who aren't communicating are bound to drive evolution forward by being as agressivly anti-communication as they are. (with eachother, not within themselves)

this is probably true, given how much of a degenerate he was, which is what was so lovable about him

but if you imagine the same type of person today, we would be laughing at him for being a hobo on the streets who tries to communicate with people who clearly just want to do their shopping and go home without making eye contact