Sup Forums I got in an argument with my brother last night about whether or not moving ISP's to title two is a good idea or not.
I proposed that the Free Market is the best determiner of what services are provided and for what price
>"The economic thinking (or lack thereof) underlying net neutrality is a retread of old, tired, pernicious errors. Net neutrality wants to stop companies from assigning priorities to Internet traffic. The problem is, prioritization is the most elementary and necessary feature of economic activity. In a world of finite resources, capacities, and time, rational humans assign priority to more highly valued options with the marketplace deciding what those values are. Saying that everything must be treated equally echoes Marx’s “from each according to his ability to each according to his need”—a deadly ethos of leveling which, in practice, has leveled wealth downward wherever humans have been misguided enough to live by that principle." forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2015/02/27/the-sad-reality-of-net-neutrality/#40f20d5247c4
He believes that the ISP "monopolies" are too powerful and will stymie free enterprise in the market.
>So you perpose that will allow AT&T, Comcast, Verizon and a handle full of other ISPs to decide what traffic should be prioritized? What would then stop these monopolies from "prioritizing" there own traffic to their platforms? A prime example of this being Isis mobile wallet. AT&T, Verizon and t-mobile stopped access to Google wallet. How is this an open fair market?
If the president wants it repealed, I'm sure it's in our best interest
John Long
lel... long live the emperor god Trump
Alexander Williams
Net neautrality litetally is what keeps this website running. Shareblue wouldnt even have to shill anymore they would just throw money at our free speech until it was gone.
Levi Wilson
why?
Angel Ross
Come on Sup Forums get at me.
Jeremiah Ward
That's not how it fucking works you retard.
For example, whats to stop somebody from doing the exact opposite if your method were to exist?
We know William Shatner and many other celebs come to this site, and politicians too.
If we could honestly just throw money at an ISP or website to take priority away, then others can just do the same to re-prioritize this website.
But no one thinks about how antitrust laws already protect against these abuses that you shit stains have no clue about. You just see an occupy democrats infographic and then think you are an expert on the subject.
Henry Robinson
this... Free Market at work
Nolan White
I don't trust it even though I have no idea what it means for me. Why? Because people like Soros and Google are funding it. I might be tech illiterate, but I do know that those groups are out to get me.
Wyatt Ward
I think the current model is ok as it is
Jace Sanchez
Net neutrality is a scam by Jews to further centralize the internet and eventually censor it.
Anthony Cooper
>Sup Forums I got in an argument with my brother last night about whether or not moving ISP's to title two is a good idea or not. Must have been a stupid argument since they're already on title 2 and the debate is about whether or not to move them back to title 1.
>I proposed that the Free Market is the best determiner of what services are provided and for what price Absolutely, for goods and services designed to make as much money as possible off the backs of its customers. If one guy would pay 1 million and 1 million wouldn't pay a dollar, you charge a million and fuck the other 999,999 potential customers.
We're talking about a utility here. Shit like water.
Brody Garcia
solution in search of a problem never give the feds more power for something as retarded as netflix getting throttled
Jackson Smith
Counterpoint: Verizon and Time Warner are against it.
Also, fuck you, learn to respect our google overlords.
Nolan Davis
>then others can just do the same to re-prioritize this website. Generally between 0 and 1 parties win a bidding war.
Asher Martinez
I live in a town where we sold the exclusive rights to our internet to one ISP...
It fucking sucks. everytime i try to post something i end up disconnec
Grayson Gray
We aren't talking about giving the feds more power. They've had this power for years.
How has the feds having this power negatively impacted you?
Jordan Evans
>Must have been a stupid argument since they're already on title 2 and the debate is about whether or not to move them back to title 1. It's the same debate you are just arguing semantics. > Absolutely, for goods and services designed to make as much money as possible off the backs of its customers. If one guy would pay 1 million and 1 million wouldn't pay a dollar, you charge a million and fuck the other 999,999 potential customers. >We're talking about a utility here. Shit like water.
yes because if you don't have the internet for a week you will die. -worst point ever
Adam Allen
>They've had this power for years. they only decided ISPs were common carriers in 2015
>How has the feds having this power negatively impacted you? lol are you new here?
Thomas Thomas
For the sake of ever being contrarian, poltards are against for the sole reason that liberals are for it.
You can expect the retarded 'muh free market' rational as per usual. If you need a reason why unrestrained free markets are retarded, just read here.
anyone who doesn't support net neutrality is either a paid shill or a complete fucking retard
the free market doesn't work for ISPs for the same reason it doesn't work for electricity, water, gas, etc. local and state governments grant ISPs exclusivity over certain telecom infrastructures. most americans can choose between exactly 2 ISPs - one telephone provider, and one cable television provider. and many americans don't even have those choices.
the free market only works when the consumer can choose a different product or supplier. internet service in the united states is not a free marketplace. net neutrality is a fix to prevent ISPs from abusing the monopoly local governments have given them. opposing net neutrality is choosing to get fucked. you are letting ISPs abuse the monopoly they already have.
Nathaniel Miller
>It's the same debate you are just arguing semantics. I Arguing semantics would be debating the meaning of words. 1 and 2 mean the same thing in no context.
>yes because if you don't have the internet for a week you will die. -worst point ever My grandmother has dementia and I use webcams to babysit her. Yes, she could conceivably die if I didn't have internet for a week and something happened while I couldn't easily check in on her.
Matthew Clark
Please explain why states cannot regulate ISPs
Sebastian Green
>net neutrality is a fix to prevent ISPs from abusing the monopoly local governments have given them.
Looks like Gov't caused the problem in the first place.
Julian Kelly
>lol are you new here? lol are you being evasive cause you don't have a point here?
>they only decided ISPs were common carriers in 2015 And it's 2017. Years.
Julian Baker
I'm for the opposite of whatever John Oliver told me to do
Zachary Kelly
>Literally disregarding antitrust laws
Title II wasn't implemented till 2015 you idiot. and that's only because Obama directly requested the FCC push for it so that they COULD have more control. It's even in the fucking open internet order.
Cameron Perez
>solution in search of a problem
wrong. see comcast and netflix.
ISPs were already abusing their monopoly and filtering traffic for specific content providers (i.e. not QoS, just outright blackmail).
Ryan Gomez
Assuming that you're not wildly incorrect just at the base of your argument (you are), why do you think anyone would throw money at this site to keep it running. The only person who even remotely comes out ahead because of this website are the fucking food shills on /ck/ for fucks sake. Corps have everything to gain and nothing to lose by taking down this site and we have everything to lose and nothing to gain.
Liam Reyes
>lol are you being evasive cause you don't have a point here? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act >And it's 2017. Years. Still dont we why we needed to let them regulate ISPs
Aiden Powell
You can't not have NN with current state of ISPs. Some places only have 2 options.
Tyler Miller
They are assholes, however, they're only greedy assholes. Soros and Google are our moral overlords, trying to determine our own lives and fate.
Jackson Davis
>Title II wasn't implemented till 2015 you idiot. Seriously, does years mean something different on Sup Forums?
>Literally disregarding antitrust laws >a republican government enforcing antitrust laws
Ryder Ramirez
states created the problem in the first place
yes, exactly. and notice that NO ONE who opposes net neutrality wants to remove the exclusivity given to ISPs by local and state governments. they are simply choosing to get fucked.
Michael Cruz
I'm assuming they can, but it's a hell of a lot easier to lobby state legislators than federal.. Most people don't even know who their state representative is, much less their position on net neutrality.
I'll be happy to let the federal government regulate the internet like a utility that it fucking is.
Joshua Rogers
>I proposed that the Free Market is the best determiner of what services are provided and for what price >Falling for the free market meme. You might as well say communism works too if you're going to drink that sort of kool-aid.
This thread is filled with shills, corporate shills.
Seriously, how has net neutrality negatively impacted you? I'll wait.
Justin Taylor
>as retarded as netflix getting throttled I already mentioned that I dont care about HD netflix video I care about dismantling the Federal government
Chase Wright
>My grandmother has dementia and I use webcams to babysit her. Yes, she could conceivably die if I didn't have internet for a week and something happened while I couldn't easily check in on her.
You couldn't find another way to check on her. Maybe you should visit her once a week. That would be nicer than monitoring via a computer screen.
Kevin Morgan
If that means you'll get fucked over by ISPs you're ok with that?
Jayden Edwards
The internet has done just fine the last 20 years with net neutrality being the de facto standard enforced by the free market instead of a de jure standard enforced by the federal government.
I don't know why the left is *suddenly* convinced that we need to give the FCC broad, overreaching regulatory powers over service providers in order to maintain net neutrality.
Isaac Anderson
>Maybe you should visit her once a week. I'd love to but I can't exactly travel myself due to health issues.
It's the cameras or the home.
Dylan Richardson
As bad as the Federal government is, my state government is somehow worse. The people these retards vote into office is unbelievable.
Hunter Nelson
>I don't know why the left is *suddenly* convinced that we need to give the FCC broad, overreaching regulatory powers over service providers in order to maintain net neutrality. Verizon won a court case that made it an issue.
This change didn't arise from nothing.
Joshua Harris
I was talking about them getting more power in general I dont want to But if you want to be specific them telling states they cannot restrict municipal speeding is huge problem >I'm assuming they can, but it's a hell of a lot easier to lobby state legislators than federal. It is also much easier to vote them out of office >I'll be happy to let the federal government regulate the internet like a utility that it fucking is. ISPs are not commerce between the states
Nathaniel Collins
Autism does not stop you from visting your grandmother you cunt.
Lucas Bennett
Comcast already tried circumvent it though. It wasn't an issue in the past because the internet was basically just used for email by most people. In recent years it's been way more convenient to try to charge extra with things like YouTube and Netflix.
Oliver Sullivan
KEK
Jordan Fisher
if am not I pay $50 fro the internet and it works fine I dont really give a shit >my state government is somehow worse. lrn2 federalism and move
Austin Barnes
>I was talking about them getting more power in general No, you aren't, cause they already have this power.
How has them having this power negatively affected you?
You have a before and after to compare.
Jonathan Jenkins
Are you fucking retarded? The right are the ones who want to introduce new legislation to change this, not the left.
Adam Hughes
>Autism does not stop you from visiting your grandmother you cunt. No, but conversion disorder mimicking paroxysmal nonkinesigenic dyskinesia does.
Jaxon Lee
I use to be for it. Then I use to be against it. Now I don't care about net neutrality and I'm instead for net infrastructure neutrality (the fiber lines instead of the data flowing though them) There's far too much politics in laying competing infrastructure due to lobbyist by ISPs trying to keep a monopoly.
Benjamin Lopez
>Corporate shills
Considering the current law allow for companies like AT&T to abuse networks under Title II?
wickard v filburn didn't affect me because I dont grow wheat I am not going to give the feds an inch because they will take a mile Also comcast throttling netflix never affected me either
John Scott
First time on Sup Forums in years and a thread shilling for ISP's to control our internet.
What the fuck happened Sup Forums?
Michael Baker
Not gonna lie but euthanasia is definitely your best option.
Luis Brown
Considering this is a universal problem, it doesn't matter.
Andrew Campbell
>Trusting a telecommunications company Nigger have you never has internet or a phone bill. They're utter cunts who dont give a shit about what you want. Most people get only several options for ISPs anyways. >free market Should we allow free market of roads as well? Somethings are fine with a little intervention
Carson Hall
Even I play less here for comparable speed.
Besides, the point is that you'd get fucked over more in the future, not now. Why do so many Americans love getting fucked by corporations and just call that the "free market?"
Caleb Reyes
>Also comcast throttling netflix never affected me either Then your opinion doesn't matter.
Benjamin Lee
Also state and local governments are the ones that gave ISPs monopolies in the first place.
Noah Ramirez
>Comcast already tried circumvent it though. Yeah and every time they get BTFO because their customers go apeshit and threaten to switch providers.
Multiple ISPs have tried pushing non-NN service in the past, and every time they back down because of the backlash from their customers. That's how the free market works.
It's only the left that suddenly thinks we can't maintain that without giving a government department absolute authority to dictate terms and conditions to service providers.
Aaron Sullivan
>Not gonna lie but euthanasia is definitely your best option. I'm aware, but at this point I'm living out of spite for my own life and I don't want to give it the satisfaction.
Its $50 a month I dont give a shit because I am not poor Why should I give a shit about netflix? ISPs can block it for all I care
Joshua Thomas
>Assuming that you're not wildly incorrect just at the base of your argument (you are)
If that's not the most plebbit tier shit I have ever heard I don't know what is.
Please, explain to me how Corporations were able to buy their way into manipulating website traffic pre-2015.
Easton Foster
>actually wanting to have greedy cappies control your internet and hold your steam dowload speed hostage
Jaxon Powell
ok then change those laws never go running to the feds because you live in a shitty state they are your enemy
Cameron Walker
It's because most americans have never been anywhere where companies aren't trying to fuck them out of everything they own. That's why if a fast food joint or grocery store gives a bunch of people a $5 coupon to spend only at said store they suddenly think it is the nicest company ever and start going there more often
Oliver Johnson
>Why should I give a shit about netflix? Counterpoint: Why should anyone give more of a shit about your opinion than netflix?
Michael Lee
We dont have a free market for internet service
Ian Williams
You're fucking retarded if you think that ISPs are a free market. ISPs are an oligopoly, with the entire market divided among themselves.
Anthony Perry
You do know that ISPs hold near monopolies? It's almost impossible to switch in a lot of places. You can thank local governments for that.
Nathaniel Wilson
>Yeah and every time they get BTFO because their customers go apeshit and threaten to switch providers.
>Multiple ISPs have tried pushing non-NN service in the past, and every time they back down because of the backlash from their customers. That's how the free market works.
Only when it goes public. Most the time when companies try to fuck their customers they do it in secret and hand out gag orders like candy
Benjamin Hill
>Should we allow free market of roads as well?
Zachary Roberts
I dont care what you think about my opinion Just like I dont care about your opinion You are the one asking why we dont support net neutrality so I gave you an answer
Sebastian Gutierrez
>we
Anthony Stewart
Was this a serious statement?
Jose Watson
Except that's basically impossible since they pay local governments for that. It's way easier to just have NN.
Blake Cooper
maybe google should spend some more of their shekels starting and ISP then
Andrew Ross
No, the internet should not be subject to the free market, where 3 big ISP have a stranglehold monpoly o n said market. The cost for new isps to sprout up is nearly impossible to overcome. Laying down new telephone poles over hundreds of miles, the permits, red tape, building the infrastructure, hiring the it people and boots on the ground.
No ones going to do it. So before you say, "hurr be rr the free market will turn out an alternative and e everyone will flock to the alternativr cause the market has spoken" BZZZZZZ WRONG!!!! Its absolutely not going to happen. The big corporations already own the market and no little generic isp will srpout out that gives the Sup Forums bundle at a fair price.
Sorry retards, but you have been sucking that ben shapiro dick too much. All of you neet cucklettes will regret supporting these laws. You will regret it when your ISP literally chargers 50 dollars for the youtube/netflix bundle. You will regret it when your isp charges 40 dollars extra to access the Sup Forums bundle because of "hate speech"
You all think this is some new viable market where anyone determined enough can spring up with their very own isp and market competition will bring rates down.
WRONG WRONG
It doesn't work that way here. It works that way with your favorite taxi apps . It works that way with with your burgers and fries.
It absolutely wont work here. What will happen is the internet will become the new hot lobbyist goldmine. All the jews will start exchanging cash for favors. They will gut the internet and charge you an arm amd a leg for the watered down version.
And no, your vpn wont bypass your ISP.
"Excuse me xer, but you are in the 20gb two hundred dollar normie bundle with comcast... Whats that? Is that encrypted data i see coming from your home network? This is unacceptable. You are charged a 100 dollar fee for breaking our code of conduct and trying to bypass your bundle with a vpn to access your animes on the anime tube. Good day "
Zachary Walker
trump happened
now Sup Forums is shilling for things that straight-up hurt them
>threaten to switch providers
which doesn't work if there are only 2 or less providers in your area (which is the case for 65% of americans) and they are fucking their customers in the same way
Landon Kelly
>be american >have 1.5Mb internet with the only ISP in the whole state >pay $500 per month >muh free market
Kevin Turner
>Defend the free market Sup Forums You are from reddit right? You know you can vote out local politicians
Dominic Martinez
They are. It's called google fiber and it's basically going to slowly kill everything in its path as it expands.
Elijah Smith
Because consumers give a shit about Netflix. Investors give a shit about Netflix. You don't watch it? Good for you, you're probably autistic. Your opinions are meaningless because they aren't reflected by the vast majority of Americans.
Connor Murphy
> It's called google fiber I know thats why I used them as an example good for them
Caleb Turner
My data is just as important as anyone else's, goddamn it. Net Neutrality must stay. I'll never forget back around 2003 or 2004 I worked for Charter, and they were circulating emails to employees LYING about Net Neutrality and what it really is... that really told me a lot.
Noah Lewis
Netflix is crap >because they aren't reflected by the vast majority of Americans. I dont give a shit
Wyatt Rivera
So you unironically want (((government))) and (((big business))) decide for you what info will you have from web and what you will not? Biggest goy i saw in my entire life.
Kayden Johnson
>ancaps think this is an argument. Shameful display.
Andrew Williams
Reminder that Comcast and Time Warner joint own Hulu
And that would change an agreement how? These things are valid for years and no party would talk about this because it nets them money.
They are and ISPs are fighting tooth and nail to try and block them. It's a slow process
Justin Parker
>muh free market works every time Fuck off lolbertarians. They already have clear monopolies, and they are already ass holes about it.
Chase Richardson
It's not Trump, it's the retards here who have to be opposed to anything the 'normies' favor. A bunch of bitter self-loathing partisans who define themselves by who they oppose. They don't realize they are falling for the same con that has been used to manipulate populations for decades now.
The average poltard can't even think for themselves. They just embrace whatever they can spite.
Xavier Bennett
And that has fuck all to do with NN.
Ryan Butler
Oh, you're crazy, not a shill.
Good to know.
But heaven forbid the gubment Ruby Ridge our internet through Title 2 however the fuck that would work.
