What would America be like if the South won the civil war?

What would America be like if the South won the civil war?

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Two or more nations in the place of the US

question here : were the Confederates just about slavery?
I don't know shit about this war

During the election of 1860, not one southern state voted for Lincoln, yet he won anyway. The South was enslaved to the will of the north and the feds, so they decided to no longer be a part of the union. The feds saw this act of self determination and predictably chimped out, then started a five year campaign of raping and pillaging their own former countrymen to "preserve" the union.

Cmon it had to be a little bit about MUH SLAVERY

No.

well yeah, the southern states wanted to protect their right to own slaves, which was being threatened by the feds. The point is, there was nothing "federal" about the federal government. It was just an arm of the North.

there were northern states that were pro slavery

slavery would have ended anyway, and was not worth nearly destroying the nation over

it was more of a conflict over federal overreach

Yes because the civilized people of the US knew better than to keep their twisted slave society intact. The civil war was all about the fight for and against slave society.

>The feds chimped out
>then started a five year campaign

Dude, first shoots of the civil war were fired from the southern side. It can not be denied that the sout started the civil war.

It was. It's true the South was losing influence to the North but the straw that broke the camel's back was Lincoln's election.
Southerners didn't vote for him because they thought he was an Abolitionist. when he wasn't, Lincoln gave his "House Divided" speech where he said eventually the US would have to choose to be a nation allowing or prohibiting slavery. the South took this as him wanting to end Slavery, which is simply not true.
Lincoln won and the South pretty much screamed "Not my President!" and seceded.

During the Civil War there were four states that remained loyal to the Union and get their slaves. Even the Emancipation Proclamation only effected the rebelling states as a war measure targeting the South's economy.
The 13th Amendment only became an idea towards the end of the war.

So while there were many causes of why the South broke away, most of it can be traced back to them fearing losing their slaves.
In any case if they hadn't seceded then the matter would have been decided eventually as immigrants fanned out and America went West. There wouldn't be a need for slaves.

Hey, if the South woulda won we'd a had it made

on a federal fort controlling a southern port. The federal soldiers were offered safe passage to evacuate.
ebin

There's a movie called CSA that speculates on what might have happened.

nigger the union stole a fort in sovereign south carolina and refused to leave

at that point the union was a voluntary agreement between states- they had no business being there

Down South some place call it "The War of Northern Aggression"
Supporters of the CSA saw it as a separate and sovereign nation and the USA maintaining forts on Southern land was an invasion.

I'd run for president of the southern states...

Worst America and best America would be meme

I let you decide which would be which

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_alternate_histories

youtube.com/watch?v=oAFjBSPUQJk

>on a federal fort controlling a southern port. The federal soldiers were offered safe passage to evacuate.

That's irrelevant. The south fired the first shoots, or cannon balls to be precise. The federals were not obliged by any law to evacuate because in their eyes and in the eyes of the international community it was US gov territory and federal troops had every right to stay there.

The Democrats win the civil war and beat Russia in installing a communist state, film at 11

It would have been way behind the curve technologically because why industrialise your agriculture when you can feed slaves pig intestines for cheap?

The slaves would've been freed like 5 years later at the most.

yeah and they killed no one. They didn't even take prisoners of war, they escorted them back North after the shelling. The first casualty came a full month after that in Alexandria, Virginia.

a fucking lea-....serb

The North would have stayed white and the South would have become South Africa. Imagine if Detroit, Chicago, and Philadelphia remained 98% white cities. Also, imagine Germany allied to the U.S. A true great white north after the Cannex.

not an argument
They didnt kill anyone, true but they did try and they damaged a millitary structure which is considered to be an act of war.

And Lincoln actually had plans to send them all back to africa. of course They never came to fruition because he was assassinated

>Imagine if Detroit remained 98% white
A boy can dream, can't he?

I don't know what side would have been better for the country in the long run, but I know that the people backed the correct man.

Lincoln created what it is today as the american nation with that war, he solved anything that keep you separated and now you know where your country starts and ends.

That's something all of us colonies had to go through one way or the other.

There are a a series of alternative history books written about this scenaril in the Domination of Draka series by S.M. Stirling

pretty much the same as it is now

>Supporters of the CSA saw it as a separate and sovereign nation and the USA maintaining forts on Southern land was an invasion.

Thats not how the law sees it and thats the only thing that matters.

>they had no business being there

If its US territory US troops had a right to be there.

>considered to be an act of war
if the North didn't want war then they would have taken their troops out of Southern land or ignored the shelling. Both sides wanted war, both sides brought along the coming of the war. Stop pretending the South was the only side acting with aggression.

Its kinda sad that i have to teach Americans about their constitution.

Article I Section 10 denies the States the right to mint their own currency, establish their own treaties of trade, defense, or offense, and to maintain their own armies.Obviously, all of these are powers of a soveriegn nation, and all necessary to the establisment of a country. Denying them clearly denies an individual state the ability to become a nation. Article I Section 8 empowers the United States government to deploy the armed forces of nation to suppress an local insurrection. Article IV Section 3 enjoins the President to preserve and protect the government and gaurantee a "Republican for of Government" which would be impossible without maintaining the Union.

>if the North didn't want war then they would have taken their troops out of Southern land or ignored the shelling.

It was their duty to preserve the Union.

>Both sides wanted war
True, but the CSA stared it.

>Stop pretending the South was the only side acting with aggression.

The South stared the war with their aggresion. Personally i think that PGT decision to fire the first shoot was dumb.

10 minutes passed and no Amerifat replied. I presume you are conceding to my points. Better luck next time Southfags.

Unimaginable clusterfuck that would have changed the entirety of 19th and 20th century history.

-The CSA would have likely expanded into Latin America and the Carribean as many pro-slavery Southerners did before the war (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filibuster_(military))
(en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_the_Golden_Circle)

-Both sides would have likely become extremely nationalistic rivals engaged in frequent conflict.

- Both American nations would have courted allies among the European Great Powers who in turn probably would have used the USA and CSA as pawns against the other Great Powers in proxy wars.

-There's a strong likelihood that World War One would have been radically different in this timeline that it would have been in ours with a vast range of implications.

You did it. You won, you won it all. You're now the History King, and your reign shall live in glory for eternity

We don't reply to poor Euroniggers, no offense..oh, wait

This turns me on

>muh agrarian society


It'd be absolute shit.

If there's anything worse than being reliant on dune coons for oil, it'd be relying on gollywogs to assemble our infrastructure.

Aww the Southcuck is upset, don't worry sweetie maybe next time when you read a few history books you might be able to have a more in depth discussion with me.

The csa would extendy down to at least central America before it would probably collapse in on itself. Too many chiefs not enuf indians

I would say:

1. The war was unnecessary and both sides bear a great amount of responsibility for stoking political extremism in the years leading up to the war.

2. The Federal Government did have rights to its property; particularly military garrisons throughout the South; but also should have known that it made war inevitable

3. It's for the best that the Union ultimately prevailed.

I was born and raised in New Jersey......thanks for playing .


>THE GAME

Agreed. I do think that the Civil War was the saddest saga in US history.

i hope thats a boy

Irrelevant, you are supporting the souths decision to leave the union which was unlawful, and i dismantled your arguments.

>lose to the electoral college
>ape out
>das not fair nigguh
>fire shots at american soldiers
>chimp out and call it the war of northern aggression
>lose and still preach dindu nuffin to this day

I think it should be known that all Southerners are niggers, even the white ones.

My ancestors murder those filthy inbred rebels.

America? Fuck. The World would be different.

Confederates win. Separate into two factions. No Real American involvement in WWI/WWII. Nazi's win. White Race secure.

>Nazi's win

>What is the Red Army

A bunch of unprofessional losers who couldn't stop a single Nazi without Allied steel and gold.

Paradise

Whatever you say kraut. Kinda funny that those "untermench" obliterated the superior race huh?

The Nazis had Moscow under siege. Stalin was considering suicide. Allied air support and money won Stalingrad. The US president prevented a fascist Russia, not Stalin or any other Soviet.

You have to consider that the entire alliance structure amongst the European Great Powers preceding the First World War would have been changed as a result of a divided America.

Britain would have likely supported an independent CSA (as it nearly did during the Civil War) as a counterweight to the threat that a revanchist USA would have posed to British Canada while France would have supported a reactionary CSA as way to secure their own interests in Mexico (itself opposed by the USA's Monroe Doctrine)

Germany would have in turn courted the North as a counterweight to British interests as:

- The North had significant value as a market for German products as well as vast natural resources vital for German industry
- Massive military potential
- Two powerful anti-British political lobbies as a result of massive Irish and German immigration to the USA (German influence in the United States is a fascinating, and overlooked topic in its own right but it would have been even more pronounced in a United States without the largely Anglo-Celtic-African South)

Finally there's the possibility that the alliance between Germany, Austria-Hungary, and the Russian Czar (which supported the North during the Civil War) would have been maintained.

One of mine was in the cavalry

So you could have a World War One that looks like

- Britain, Japan, France, the CSA, and Ottoman Empire (which was traditionally considered part of the British sphere of influence right up until the outbreak of the First World War)

versus

Germany, Austria-Hungary, Czarist Russia, and the USA.

The entire 20th century would have been mind-bogglingly different.

It was about freedom to do whatever you want and telling government to piss off with their roads.
That's why it's called the war of northern aggression.

it wasn't about slavery as much as it was about the states having the right to do what they want. if the south won slavery would have ended anyways from the majority eventually voting against it.

what ever happened to manifest destiny?

A far better place

Classic, only a Yankee could simultaneously call the south cucks and boasts about millions of northerners sacrificing themselves to free niggers xD

If there's one thing this thread has taught me it's that Serbia really is a shithole

You were the problem. You don't realize the Confederacy were harboring all those niggers, breeding only the strongest and dumbest, you've created a bunch of barbarians.

Where has that gotten you now? I'm sure you're proud of what you've done, you dumb inbred hick fuck and don't you dare tell me Southerners would've shipped them back to Africa because we already know that's a lie. You lot couldn't handle growing your own crops and cotton. You would've kept breeding them until the Southern States turned into South Africa 2.0

scum

>dumping ~4 million people back onto a continent that neither they, nor their parents or grandparents had ever seen in person, and whose skillsets usually began and ended with tending to farmland otherwise owned and managed by other people
I can't see how that could possibly go wrong.

It did. Look at Liberia, the African-Americans enslaved the Africans using techniques taught to them by White Americans.

Liberia is now a civil war ridden third world country, torn between numerous militias who'll never find peace or common ground.

The Republican Party was founded as an anti-slavery party. When it started preventing the southern states from expanding slavery into new territories, including Cuba, they were threatening to secede. When Abraham Lincoln was elected as the first Republican president, the southern states chimped out and actually seceded.

They relied on slavery because they wanted a certain way of life, including agrarianism and feudalism. The Civil War was about slavery as well as fighting for a basic way of life.

/his/ here

The War was about Secession. Secession was about Slavery.

The democrats sabotaged their own election to have a reason to secede. 3 dem versus 1 rep. Lincoln won with the least amount of popular votes in history, but no democratic candidate beat him in the election. No one disputed the legitimacy of his election.

Lincoln argued that the Constitution called for a Union, and no governing constitution had articles for its own dissolution. There was no precedent, but legal scholars agreed secession was illegal.

The South fired on a civilian ship on a relief mission to Fort Sumter, which was federal property. Legally, the states had no right to confiscate federal property, and firing on federal soldiers and facilities is an act of war.

Lincoln only ever meant to limit slavery to where it was already present. The South didn't like that.

a constitutional republic

Honestly the south would have heavily restructured itself if it had won the war. The faults in the Confederacy were made apparent over the course of the war with the intentional decentralization of the government becoming a liability compared to the federal north. Much like the US dropped the Articles of Confederation and adopted the Constitution, I imagine the south would have done something similar. The South was about as bad as Austria-Hungary in WW1 as far as continuous and regulated infrastructure between states. Was a big ol' mess. Honestly it would have been for the better, a Confederation, however nice it is in theory, would have been substantially weaker compared to a federal north right on their doorstep. For their own interest it would have been better to change.

...

The divide those who advocated centralized government (Federalists, Whigs etc.) and those favored local rule (States' Rights) existed long before slavery's legitimacy came into question. The Civil War was preceded by the Nullification Crisis and Virginia/Kentucky Resolutions several decades earlier. Both incidents where the Federal government's authority had been called into question and almost ended very nastily with threats of secession and having state legislatures arrested. Exposing a very profound philosophical disagreement in American society.

Abolitionism was regarded as a fringe ideology throughout the U.S. and it not start to gain traction until the 1850s with the annexation of lands seized during the Mexican War and the Fugitive Slave Act.

But whereas the States and Federal government were willing to accept compromise over issues like taxation, slavery was the one issue no one was willing to back down on. It had become so emotionally charged, that taking a hard line became a matter of personal honor. When a national issue no one was willing to compromise on emerged, so did the longstanding philosophical disagreement of Federalism vs Localism.

TL;DR A popular mass issue everyone, regardless of social status or education had an opinion on (slavery) became intertwined with a longstanding philosophical issue (Federalism/States' Rights) and the two made for a deadly cocktail.

Oh fuck off I'm a southerner, it became horribly apparent that the south's logistics couldn't compete with the north. What I would have liked to see is an imperial south subjugate central America and the Caribbean.

Not a southcuck, but...

The terms of the constitution only constrain those who are part of the united states of America.

Those that choose to leave will be punished-

wait, that's not in the script.

There was nothing that mandated the south had to stay, which is why so many states gathered together and left. Nullification was a similar impulse that was NOT addressed in the original constitution, so secession was a very natural followon.

I'm not arguing the south was right- firing on fort sumter was stupid as fuck. Better to just shut down supply lines and starve them out and not fire a shot EVER. When they fired on Fort Sumter, they royally fucked themselves, like the chinks did in Pearl harbor.

>/his/ here
>faggot cuck opinion
Yeah, checks out.

Slavery was a key factor but not the ONLY key factor.

The North and South had beef with each other for a long time before the war started.

south brooklyn doesn't count

Yes. Because we all know that wars are fought by wealthy land owning elites.

Less than 4% of Americans ever own slaves. And slavery was well on its way out before the Civil War even started.

>South Carolina seceded on Dec. 17
>Feds reinforced fort Sumter a week later under the cover of darkness
>they train all cannons onto the city of Charleston
>SC declares this an act of aggression and seeks to meet with the federal government over the issue
>Lincoln sandbags them for months
>Eventually the feds in the fort begin running out of food
>Sumter is in Charleston bay on South Carolinas property
>Confederates say any fed ships sent into the harbor will be seen as an act of war
>Feds send in a ship to reinforce the fort anyways
>Confederates take the fort without any casualties and send the captured feds back north free
>This happens 4 months after secession
>Lincoln then orders a full invasion of the south and four more states secede in response

Why do people act like the Confederates attacked Sumter for no reason?

>What would America be like if the South won the civil war?
A backwater agricultural shithole, pretty much third world tier.

>stole a fort
Nigger they sold it to the federal government for the express purpose of using it as a military outpost. It was literally federal land. You don't get takesies backsies when you sell something to someone for money.

They'd be poor as fuck since they don't have northern industrialization support and surely by the mid 20th century, slavery would be abolished anyway.

You would be paying taxes to the king of england, a vassal of the british dominion.

>>using the new more politically correct Georgia flag

History always upsets the teuton

Jews had a Central Bank with the Confederacy, no different. Abe would have bought us time with US treasury printed bank notes but he was assassinated by some Southern Jew. Those who glorify the South are idiots, don't listen to them, Albert Pike probably was a crypto-Jew.

Criminaly underrated

RURAL AND SUBURBAN RETARDS

And therefore a vassal to the Rothschild Bank of England. Is it any wonder the British Empire supported and supplied the Cinfederacy?

A once beautiful, prosperous city destroyed by the negro hordes. Shame.

Support for jingoism died out, but the primary objective of manifest destiny was achieved anyways.

...

Suburban is White a beautiful, Saxon. Rural is ugly, broken down, dumb, and mongrel.

united states would have returned to its glory days as a member of the british empire.