I've been browsing pol since VERY EARLY in the election (Supported trump since last March. I'm not a reddit nigger...

I've been browsing pol since VERY EARLY in the election (Supported trump since last March. I'm not a reddit nigger.) Been into race realism and other red-pilled ways of thinking through my own observation and critical thinking skills for years.. maybe even my whole life. But, I'm an abstract thinker and I don't retain facts very well, or I don't bother since I guess I've always considered it enough to know where I stand on a subject even if I can't properly articulate it without needing a very generous ear to allow me to talk about it until I arrive at my point.

So I'm shit at debating. I keep running in to leftist fuckheads and dumb baby boomers who think Trump is a bully and feel very muddy in the head when I want to tell them how I consider their points of view to be shit, basically. It's frustrating.

Anyone have this issue? Anyone have any advice or encouragement? I figure I just need to hit the paper and start writing down my arguments and allowing myself to get btfo every now and then so I can go back and figure out how I would've argued better to win. That's probably the solution, but I thought I'd just throw a thread on here and see what you guys think.

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if you want to argue against leftists on leftist policy positions, then watch some of Ben Shapiro's videos on youtube. there's not much use trying to defend Trump, because Trump isn't a conservative or a libertarian or a white nationalist, so it's hard to coherently defend all of Trump's decisions.. but as far as defending the wall, lower taxes, deporting shitskins, etc, it's pretty easy from a logical standpoint.

but beware of shapiro's jewishness and don't fall for his foreign policy positions etc.

Thanks. My friend who is way better at debating than I am actually seems to have learned a lot from Shapiro.

I think that I sacrifice coherence for accuracy if that makes any sense. Like I don't care if I can explain the way I think to people, and that frees me up to arrive at the solution more quickly. That's why I was the first person out of all of my friends to support Trump, back when they all still thought he was a joke candidate.

I will make it a point to try and learn more from Shapiro.

Shapiro sometimes explains that there are two ways of arguing and convincing people:

1) logically convincing people in 1v1 conservations

2) humiliating your opponent in front of a crowd

if you're just debating a friend 1v1 you need to consider whether having the discussion is actually worth it. is it worth risking a friendship over a political discussion? will you ever convince him? etc.

if you're arguing in front of a crowd against someone, it doesn't matter if you stay logical or coherent, you just need to ridicule and demean your opponent's policy positions as hard as possible.

this is what the democrats did to Romney. Romney was a profoundly moral man with good character and set of principles, but the left portrayed him as an evil cartoon villain who intentionally fired his employees so their wives would die of cancer.

with the left you need to show that MORALLY the left is evil and sick and warped.

they believe in stealing peoples money to support others, they believe in destroying social and moral institutions that made people happy and the world rich, they believe in murdering babies in the womb, they believe in an ideology that murdered 100 million people in Europe, etc.

logic doesn't necessarily matter, just make them look dumb and stupid and evil.

Thanks for laying that out for me.

I think I will still need to understand those points better to be able to throw them out in case the opponent challenges me on them. Like for example I do believe that abortion is immoral, because it's abruptly ending the life of a human who is preparing to enter the world, for the sake of convenience, short-sighted thinking, and pleasure. That any way you cut it (pun intended) it's a disgusting act. I would then want to understand more clearly points about how abortion is a problem on top of another problem which is glorified promiscuity, and that rampant fornication is an emotionally and physically unhealthy thing that shouldn't be promoted in our culture.

I think there's something about not being iron-clad with my point of view makes it hard for me to argue to win. I think it's a weakness on my part. I treat every conversation as though it is an ideal one, like that we're both listening to each other with respect. But, maybe it's better to treat some conversations as though it's a legal battle, and if any one learns from the other, it will be later when we're licking our wounds. It's probably stupid to assume I'll ever convince anyone of anything on the spot.

I've got a deep issue with my perspective on debate that needs to be addressed. I need to articulate all of this stuff for myself. Like what I even believe is happening when I get in to an interaction like that.

I'm a very skilled debater and do It professionally. While I do write down cases for tournaments, I do not for freelance debating, or off the cuff debating.

The best suggestion any one can give you are as follows;

Understand how arguments work. Arguments are divided into three sections-
Claim: What you say is true
Warrant: Why what you say is true
Impact: Why it matters what you say is true

These are the standard components of an argument. Your opponent doesn't have an argument if one of these are missing. There are other methods of argumentation but they all add to what I just explained, not take away. Remember CWI.

Furthermore, understand your own argument. It needs to make sense to you before It can make sense to someone else. Your arguments should follow CWI and make sense to you before you present them to other people.

Debate is not just about speaking, ask questions. That is so important. Asking questions is a great way at getting vital info, making your opponent look stupid, and also when done right, dramatically lowers the likelihood that you will be seen as an antagonist or someone trying to pick a fight.

Next, argue with yourself. Alone, either outloud or in your head, alternatively you can write it down. Think of your argument (CWI) and then think of responses to that, purposefully try to destroy your own argument. If you are able to, reasses your claim, warrant, and impact. You could find out that you're not wrong, but that your arguments are badly linked. By that I mean, there is not a logical chain of progression between your claim, Warrant, and impact. What also helps is doing research specifically on rebuttals to arguments and not the arguments themselves. Rebuttals, in effect, can be made up on the fly by de-linking claims, warrants, and impacts.

Specifically in regards to Trump. While I am conservative and Pro-Trump, I find him unpredictable. Dont get yourself into an argument about what Trump might do, only what he has.

Thanks for this info and how clearly you presented it. I'm going to start laying these things out on paper.

I suppose I should continue to lay low in terms of debating people until I have a lot of this stuff hammered out and rehearsed and researched.

Do you have any tricks, like how to back out of a potential debate gracefully in a way that doesn't make it look like your opponent won by default?

I would suggest not starting it, or if you do, don't be antagonistic. Stick only to questions If you aren't confident in interjecting your own opinions.

Alternatively, an easy way to mix questions and opinions is:
"Opponents of your opinions would say X, what do you say to that?"

A smile and a "thanks for the discussion" go a long way in reducing hostility.

get out newfaggot

You cant argue with liars. Remember who they are. The war for our Republic has already begun.

Stop getting involved in stupid arguments. Party politics is for fags. Is more like arguing which football team is better than something productive. Trump is a goddamn retard and you are going to lose trying to defend him. Same goes for the whole of the Republican party. If you are a race realist and into other redpilled ways of thinking, then you should be able to attack liberalism at its core issues like egalitarianism and individualism. Then again, if you were really redpilled, you wouldn't be trying to defend Trump and Republicans. The Democratic party is much easier to defend than the Republican party, but liberalism is fundamentally flawed and easy as fuck to dismantle.

i'll help you with his main policies

1) The wall.

First of, a wall at the US-Mexican border would be a good thing for both countries.

I don't know how much you know about the way 'the market' works or any other economic theory? But it all boils down to supply and demand.
If supply > demand = price/wage will fall
If supply < demand = price/wage will rise.

If you are concerned about the stagnating/decreasing wages in the USA. You should find a way to decrease or atleast stagnate the supply of labor.

By which I mean, halting illegal migration. If an american lives in the USA an pays taxes he'll need atleast $10/hour. Yet when José crosses the border he'll be content with just $5/hour.

But let's say that José wasn't able to cross the border illegaly. The american employee who wants atleast $10 will get this wage because well, there's no one who'll do it for less money.


Congratulations you've made wages rise in the USA without creating more unions, regulations or whatsoever. All you did was build a border.


If by any chance the border works in stopping drugtraffic. Maybe just maybe the cartels will spread to another country (unfortunatly fuck that one up) but atleast Mexico could find itself in a relative time of peace and perhaps rebuild their country.

Debating is about control. Don't go off on tangents. If they hit you with multiple points, slow them down and address each point. I find most people's issue with Trump is his accuracy of statements. I explain to them that this is his process. If you read The Art of War and The Art of the Deal his process makes a whole lot more sense.

Reddit has a good source thread that covers most talking points reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5yvs17/the_stump_cheat_sheet_v4_ultimate_red_pill/

Don't try to argue, you won't be able to sell your opinions, sell the idea which is immortal. Talk about things you are proud of in non aggressive way, it's hard to find a way to redpill people without going full 1488. Also sitting on pol for long periods it's not recommended. For example I was at the party last Friday and all the guests were degenerate as fuck and they've noticed golden cross on my neck and started looking at me funny. So i used the situation to drop a tiny redpill. I explained how it's not about me showing my catholic roots and it's only to manifest my respect to tradition. We started talking and at some point they couldn't really prove any of their opinions. Switching subjects it's also good when you know where you started. You have to be able to spitt 1000 words a minute of knowledge and provocative sentences. You must engage your opponent on your terms. Don't ask question when you don't already know the answers.

You're an autist who can't argue your point of view, so don't even try. Don't engage people and stop talking politics and shit with people IRL, what the fuck do you want as an outcome, a liberal to change their mind? Yeah, no, won't happen. Just leave it.

Leftists don't care about facts.
Why bother debating them?

So basicaly you are smart enough to understand that our education was propaganda, but not smart enough to talk?

There is only one way burger.
It's called practice.
I don't know if it will have the same effect with you, but it was easier for me to start with family.

>Anyone have any advice or encouragement? I figure I just need to hit the paper and start writing down my arguments...

That's a start, but you also need to do some research and rehearsal.

1. Sit down and write out what you see as your most important beliefs about the world.

2. Go online and search for the evidence supporting those positions.

3. Go online and search for the evidence opposing those positions.

4. Go online and search for evidence against the opposing points in step 3.

5. Assemble your results into a list of bullet points you can memorize and drop on people in a debate.

6. Rehearse for debates. Imagine yourself arguing with someone. Imagine making your case with the points from step 2. Imagine you opponent attacking you with the points from step 3 and you counter attacking with the points from step 4.

>not a reddit nigger
>writes formatted wall of blog
Neck yourself faglord
Your opinions are so plebiscine they shop at target.

>imagine yourself arguing with someone

Srsly, thanks for this user...haven't literally kekd whilst shitting in a long time....

That bit of wisdom is gonna stay with meeeeelololololololol ok

I was caught up with something, but am reading all the nice posts you guys left.

Some good stuff so far. Thanks to everyone.

Well, I'll talk specifically about what happened yesterday. Sparing you the details, I got caught up in a conversation with a cute girl who was obviously interested in the penis while I happened to have just started drinking a hot cup of tea, so I was definitely going to be there for at least 5 minutes. Within 30 seconds the girl revealed her super pinko power-level and went full uni marxism mode on me.. I swear it was like witnessing a cartoon of all of the different bullshit we see from the left. She apologized for potentially shaming me about how I wanted to delete some garbage from my Soundcloud before giving it out to people. She asked me what gender I identified as as though it was a normal thing to do; I actually thought she was joking at this point and told her I wasn't sure yet since it was a little early in the day. She started talking about how all of history was only good for white males. She got triggered when I asked her what she was doing for Mother's Day.. then further triggered when I acted interested in her reaction, asking her how her parents are doing. She told me that I NEED to go vegan.

It was actually kind of hilarious, I laughed the whole way home about it. But, I was annoyed that that bitch is standing there and seemingly such an easy target to btfo, and yet I didn't have the ammo lined up to do so effectively. I bet it would've been easy for some of you to do it, and probably very enjoyable. I don't want to miss out on opportunities like that in the future.

Yeah this is probably a big part of it. I also feel kind of cucked because I know that all the leftist retards have like 5 moron strangers ready to jump in and back them up at any minute if they overhear a conversation, and it's like a reality of human psychology that I'll have to fight my way up-hill and make no mistakes if I'm not going to suddenly target myself for ostracization. It's the same reason there are literally 0 Trump bumper stickers anywhere for the past year, and I still see Hillary nigger-stickers everywhere I go.

>Anyone have this issue?
I could have written exactly the same thing if I'd thought to articulate my thoughts.

What the hell are you trying to say? Sounds like reasonable advice to me.

Wow dude you really made me feel bad there fuck