There are TWO VERY DIFFERENT plans of salvation being taught in churches today:

>There are TWO VERY DIFFERENT plans of salvation being taught in churches today:

>PARTIAL FAITH IN CHRIST + WORKS — The false gospel of John MacArthur, Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, Paul Washer, Jack Chick, Aiden Tozer, Billy Graham, Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, William Lane Craig, Chip Ingram, Rick Warren, Paris Reidhead, C.S. Lewis, David Cloud and many others—errantly require a person to stop sinning (or be willing to stop sinning), to have intent to reform, make a full surrender to Christ, declare “Jesus as Lord,” count the cost, start a relationship with Jesus, invite Jesus into your heart, commit one's life to live for Jesus, change your ways, and forsake the world, AS A REQUIREMENT TO BE SAVED (as a prerequisite to placing your faith in Christ). This heresy is commonly known as “Lordship Salvation.” Jehovah's Witnesses, Paul Washer and Ray Comfort agree. John MacArthur and Mormons agree.

>FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE — The true Biblical gospel teaches that we are saved solely by Christ's righteousness (Romans 10:3-4), and that no self-righteousness of any kind is required (Titus 3:5) because we have none to offer (Isaiah 64:6); neither does a person have to quit any sin to be saved (Romans 4:5-6; Acts 13:39). Charles Spurgeon himself rightly taught that THERE ARE NO CONDITIONS OF SALVATION! YOU ARE A SINNER! Unless you accept Christ's payment for your sins, you will spend eternity burning in the fires of Hell. Harry A. Ironside, Curtis Hutson, John R. Rice, Jack Hyles and Michael P. Bowen (.pdf) are 100% correct on repentance and salvation! A desire to turn away from sinful living is not a requirement for salvation, anymore than such a request would be required to receive a birthday gift.

Other urls found in this thread:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqFKK7V8XMc
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ
youtube.com/watch?v=iYxmo7Dpi0M
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Also note Judea christian vs Christ Christian

I think the Jews made up their history to make them sound amazing. When in reality when Moses found them they were degraded slaves

Read James 2. Faith without works is dead.

"But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" James 2:20

Pointless to respond if op isn't willing to recognize that faith without works is useless.

I hear you there but Ive considered that to mean that if you have faith good works will flow from you. Not that you do good works to show faith. Does that make sense? One is a result of the previous action the other is still an attempt to ingratiate.

How could the thief and murderer on the Cross have been saved if they could not perform any good works? This is to reinforce my previous statement.

You are saved by faith alone yes. However if you are saved, why would you not want to do good works because of your faith?

everybody dox op and steal his property and murder his family but still believe in jesus lol whoops sorry op see u in heaven :)

Faith in Jesus is stopping you from doing that though.

if rely on your works you go to Hell

God's will so it makes a little more sense

...

Sola fide is a modern heresy. As is sola scriptura. Invented in the 1500s by Martin Luther, a heretic.

The Catholic Church is the Truth.

But sir, since you must be born again, and since you must know Christ so to know your self.

You must come to Jesus, or better than that he must come to you.
Everything about this world including your post is designed to separate us from God.

What you are missing is the great symbolism hidden in plane sight which is the truth.

You must be born again and suffer a virgin birth in order for you consciousness to be raised so that you can be joined with God. Everything, and I mean everything, about this world is designed to prevent you from achieving this higher level of conciousness.

The seven deadly sins and there promotion by the corporate media of "entertainment". The water you drink from the tap ("water filters - really good ones").

You are taught to fear your shadow by government schools and media from the day your foreskin was cut off.

Am I right High Level Insider?

(((Christianity)))

Also before anyone says "lol mary worship". Martin Luther himself said the Hail Mary prayer. Even your top heretic agreed.

>follow my autistically precise way to not be tortured for eternity that I'll allow multiple interpretations of to exist without correcting so you have to guess at random

nice religion lmao

Indeed. It's a misconception that "Catholics earn their way to Heaven", as works do help, but only through Christ and living by His example can one be saved. Now another common misconception I've seen is "Once saved always saved", which is wrong.

For example, if you "had faith" once but you sinned profusely and you didn't even bother saying sorry, because as a (certain sect of) protestant you think once saved always saved, and you went to Heaven. That would be an injustice. To have faith requires works as well. Works shows your faith is real and not just superficial, as the Pharisees had.

Matthew 6:5 "And when ye pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, that love to stand and pray in the synagogues and corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men: Amen I say to you, they have received their reward."

Works shows that you are trying to follow Christ, and Christ's example, you commit those good works. Faith without good works is dead and superficial, and many people sin when they want to implement kike policies of screwing over the less fortunate.

This is why the helping of the poor, elderly, orphans, retarded, sick, and other weak members of society is a crucial priority, as without doing so (as we currently are in our heavily Jewified society), our society goes "to shit".

This too

Also note that Jesus wasn't even a real person, according to the authentic letters of Paul and the Gospel of Mark.

>It's a misconception that "Catholics earn their way to Heaven", as works do help, but only through Christ and living by His example can one be saved.
This sentence self-contradicts. What if I believe but literally don't change any of my sinful habits? Heaven or no?

>Ive considered that to mean that if you have faith good works will flow from you
Then you are an idiot trying to twist scripture to fit your needs, like all Sola scriptura faggots.

Awesome post, I see so much misunderstanding on here about the nature of salvation. It's faith alone! That's the Good News!

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my[b] works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[c] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[d] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I understand. We act because we believe but that doesn't remove the need to act (work) to be saved. We are saved by faith, works, and grace.

Use common sense like James does in James 2:14-17. Who looks in the mirror, sees a blemish, and thinks it will be removed without doing anything? But i believe! Yea, but you will be walking around all day with a zit on your forhead if you don't pop it (James 1:21-25).

The question is, how does God forgive my sins? When does God forgive my sins? When does or did God save me?

>Then you are an idiot trying to twist scripture to fit your needs, like all Sola scriptura faggots.
Aside from the ad hominem, where is he actually wrong? The New Testament is very clear that it's faith alone.

Exactly he's saying it's a false dichotomy

Extra-biblical sources

- Tacitus
- Josephus
-Mara Bar Serapion
- Pliny the Younger
- Suetonius

Later Extra-biblical source

- Talmud (if he didn't exist why would his mrotal enemy, the synagogue of Satan talk about him so much?)
- Toledoth Jesu
- Lucian


Additionally, scholars of all worldviews have soundly concluded that Jesus is a historical figure and that the Gospel narratives are in fact written in Greco-Roman method of history. Its rare today to see anyone deny this viewpoint. Jesus' family is mentioned by Paul in his letters to several churches, having also met with Jesus' disciples.

Jesus' death by crucifixion is considered as undeniable history. Crucifixion was considered to be so horrific at the time that the Greek never mentioned it, Jesus' Crucifixion is so embarrassing and horrible that it passes what is called the criteria of embarrassment.

Jesus' resurrection is also considered an early piece of historical evidence, since Paul mentions an early hymn in 1 Corth. 15, which has been hypothesized to have been said in local Christian churches in the first 5-10 years. Bart Ehrman has considered the resurrection narrative to being talked about 6 months to a year of Jesus' death, this leads to the conclusion of Jesus' existence and has lead to the possibility of Jesus resurrection being true even by the agnostics who don't believe in God.

Jesus' life is also considered as quite accurate. Maurice Casey, an agnostic/atheist has concluded that the gospel of Mark was written around 40 AD, 10 years after Jesus was killed. He was able to see Aramaic grammatical sentences, cultural ways of life in the gospel of Mark and how it accurate parallels the life of normal people around that time.

Except all those times it isn't, then it's that works come from faith regardless of what the scripture says. Because the simple truth is solda fide is nonbiblical.

The bible contradicts itself. What a shocker...

Thief on the cross. He recognized and confessed His belief in Jesus. He confessed his sins. Jesus Christ told Him He would be with Him in paradise.

We can't be saved like the thief on the cross because Jesus is up in heaven next to the Father. We are saved through faith and obedience to the gospel.

That's the same copypasta you use every time. It's still wrong, no matter how many times you CTRL+V it.

No, he's saying faith on its own is worthless, and points out claiming to be faith without works is not enough. How can you be so bad at reading?

>the gospel of Mark was written around 40 AD
Hahahahahahahahaha my sides, someone call a 1st century faith healer quick

What part of it is wrong, anglo-kike?

Are you now gonna finish this post with a "and don't ask how, it's not my job to educate you", or are we to presume it's there?

If you don't repent your sins and try to live a Holy life as best you can, you're doing it wrong.

He is saying faith by itself doesnt feed or clothe people.
Faith in and of itself is great but has no measurable impact

All of it. Where would you like me to start?

>Tacitus
Nope
>Josephus
Nope
>Pliny the Younger
Nope
>Suetonius
Nope
>Talmud
Nope
>Jesus' family is mentioned by Paul in his letters
Nope
>Jesus' death by crucifixion is considered as undeniable history
Nope
>Crucifixion was considered to be so horrific at the time that the Greek never mentioned it,
Nope
>Jesus' Crucifixion is so embarrassing and horrible that it passes what is called the criteria of embarrassment.
Nope

m.youtube.com/watch?v=pqFKK7V8XMc

Yes but doing those things isnt a task you are doing to become saved or part of a regiment. Its a natural extension of your repentance and of your faith. Thats why soup kitchen guy can be just as bad or worse than than homeless drug addict. Human can rationalize anything and we tell ourselves we are following our heart but the Lord tells us that the heart is deceitful above all things.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

......just saying

Okay great so I guess the utterly depraved 1% and all the worst criminals of mankind get a free ticket out of hell by believing in Jesus. Of course people who don't believe but are righteous would be barred from the Love of the Creator, it makes perfect sense.

kys

So it's okay to drink, do drugs, beat your kids, cheat on your wife and Fuck hookers and you can still go to heavan?

Wrong on all accounts, if you're going to actually say "nope", at least try to debate why, you faggot anglo kike.

If you have faith you wont do those things. See how it works?

>posting links from Wikipedia to win an argument

The Tacitus passage is probably partly an interpolation, but even if it's 100% genuine, it's just describing what Christians in the second century already believed. It's not independent of the gospels so it's not evidence for the existence of Jesus.

>The Catholic Church is the Truth.

sure thing bud

Believe in Christ, go to church, and don't be a dick.

It's not fucking rocket science.

Catholics believe their sins are forgiven by going to mass, eating crackers, and drinking wine. Heretic tier

I like how you used the exact argument citied in the article against the authenticity of the passage...

>being that autistic

Paul was a murderer

>what is tradition ?

This just makes it even harder to believe in christianity.

They means all those loony old bitties get to go to heaven but nice good people who just have trouble having complete faith in something unsubstantiated go to hell.

Stupid religion not to be taken literally.

>denying the real presence
You are the heretic.

All christians have believed it since the beginning of the Church. Only protestants deny it.

youtube.com/watch?v=iYxmo7Dpi0M

Your protty Jesus is nothing like real Jesus.

I bet you're one of those people who has never read the source texts, so still thinks there are only ten commandments, amirite?

>Thinking tradition can replace faith

Never change Catholicism, never change.

Why do you think fig trees are mentioned in the bible so much? I'll spell it out for you

Works = fig
Faith = tree

Not tradition

The roman church was founded decades after Paul's church plants in Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonica.

Your wafers and your wine will not forgive sins. It is not the body of Jesus because He is in heaven.

The Roman Catholic Church is like msnbc... The truth filtered, distorted, and fed to the sheeple

We ALL deserve hell. Only through Christ we can avoid it. Those who reject him are surely in hell. There is no denying it.

You're wrong read Acts. Your traditions started when the roman church became apostate

What's the problem

>Takes Acts seriously
>Chooses to ignore that it directly contradicts the authentic letters of Paul
>And itself
>And everyone else

Its not even tradition its an heresy that started after the Bible was finished. There are lots of examples on how a church is supposed to be run in the Epistles.

There are no contradictions in the Bible. The OT walks hand in hand with the NT.

This is a real point.

A person who accepts Christ will most likely work to be Christ-like, but we are only human. We all make mistakes, but we are already forgiven.

Atheists could never comprehend that depth of love. Men of God are men of action, because of love.

Christ said that a true disciple has to forsake all that he has to follow Him. This involves a complete death to self, no longer living for one's own pleasure or purposes, forsaking any person, career, commitment, pleasure, or any other thing that would turn him away from doing the will of God.

Most Christians are living for themselves, in disobedience to Christ's commands.

>There are no contradictions in the Bible.

>imbligin bible doesnt advise keeping the people's separate
>imbligin you shouldnt do as the Romans do

There are none. Go read it sometime.

>Only ten commandments
But there are, unless you're a faggot hook nose kike who has the other bullshit like saying us that as Christians dont have 10 commandments but rather 600 or something rather, taking parts of the Bible out of context and claiming they're out of context.

>Crackers and wine
The Body and Blood of Christ... (Eucharist)

To deny the Eucharist is to deny Christ.

Are you willing to change your mind, if I can find a contradiction in the bible?

We wuz dindus

But he isn't saying it bars you from salvation.

Which is the point. Faith is the marker, in perhaps intentional contrast to Judaism.

>Christians dont have 10 commandments but rather 600 or something rather

613, you probably mean. But the traditional list at Exodus 20 is actually 14 commandments, not 10, in the original Hebrew. Read it and weep.

>Inb4 muh decalogue

that's not what's happening at all. 99% of churches don't do anything with the Bible other than do a quick 1-2 sentence quote before going into some "sermon" about how God wants you to work for X charity or some bullshit about how Y is such a nice person, look at how Christian he is.

The Eucharist break bread drink wine "do this in memory of me."

Every time a priest says behold the Lamb of God, He has committed blasphemy.

Jesus is in heaven; He died once for all.

Sure!

Fuck off faggot. Adlts are talking.

Is this blasphemy?

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

"Letter to the Smyrnaeans", paragraph 6. circa 80-110 A.D.

"Come together in common, one and all without exception in charity, in one faith and in one Jesus Christ, who is of the race of David according to the flesh, the son of man, and the Son of God, so that with undivided mind you may obey the bishop and the priests, and break one Bread which is the medicine of immortality and the antidote against death, enabling us to live forever in Jesus Christ."

-"Letter to the Ephesians", paragraph 20, c. 80-110 A.D.

You don't just say "I believe Christ!" like a get out of jail free card.

You misunderstand the concept of faith.

>inb4 NRSV.NIV,NKJV,CEB,LQBTARENOTPEDO bible translations

King James Bible, Chapter and verse please

Genesis 1: Adam was created after the birds
Genesis 2: Adam was created before the birds

Gen 2:19 says God had formed the animals already. So, WRONG

genesis 2 is further expounding in detail about genesis 1

its not telling you the order they were created

>Believes in a talking snake
>Literally believes in a talking snake
>Not a figurative talking snake
>Not a metaphorical talking snake
>Not a literary device expressed as a talking snake
>A literal talking snake

Didn't know everyone was wrong

That is being Christ-like, which no man, and that's the point, NO MAN can achieve. It's an ideal.

>Letters

Bibles all you need. You are defending mock cannibalism (baalism) because it's tradition.

Not even the bible puts the righteous widow or the orphan in the same category as the imprisoned or lazy. "He that won't work, won't eat" or of that effect

It's like how everyone wears a cross and prostrates saturn, you have been made to consider heresies as cornerstones. Did Jesus preach faith, or eating crackers?

You sighted passages are not found in any Holy Bible. What authority do random passages have?

You best start believing in talking snakes, bongo


They live in your Royal Palace.

It's like you are trying to argue that water can still be water even if it is not wet. Don't be surprised while people scratch their heads wondering why you are trying to remove a property away from water.

If you don't have works you don't have faith because works are a property of faith.

Kek

>genesis 2 is further expounding in detail about genesis 1

You do know that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are by different authors, right?

>defend this random statement that isn't apart of the Christian faith
WOW CHRIstcucks btfo dude!! SO RADICAL!!!

wrong

>I hate history

Works are the property of God.

The way you word it, you could be barred from heaven for failing, even if you try your very hardest. We all know perpetual fuck-ups, are they perpetually damned?

The "works" mentality is part of the same Torah doctrine that made Jews the chosen people. All doctrine which evaporated with the sacrifice, which seems to go over, like, everyone's head.

WRONG

Paul wasn't talking about Eucharist though.