Can you guys prove to me that transgenderism is a mental illness?

Can you guys prove to me that transgenderism is a mental illness?

Other urls found in this thread:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain_2.html)
pnas.org/content/112/50/15468.abstract)
youtu.be/TpDLqxL5_tM
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with pimozide.

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The case is reported of a gender dysphoric patient who responded successfully to pharmacotherapy with pimozide.
CLINICAL PICTURE:
An adult male patient with a borderline learning disability presented with cross-dressing and a strong wish to undergo a sex change.
TREATMENT:
Supportive psychotherapy and pharmacotherapy with pimozide was tried.
OUTCOME:
There was an excellent response to pimozide 2 mg daily, with a cessation of both cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. When, after 1 year, the dose was reduced to 1 mg daily, there was a rapid return of the cross-dressing and the wish for sex reassignment. An increase in the dose again led to a remission which has been maintained since then.
CONCLUSION:
Pharmacotherapy with pimozide should be considered in cases of doubtful gender dysphoria.

Source:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957

I think the burden of proof belongs is on those who believe it's not a mental illness.
((not an argument))

> Mentally handicaped weak beta men dressing and sucking cock like a woman
> PROVE THAT IS MENTAL ILLNESS. I DARE YOU

It's not. It's a symptom of Western decadence.

Yes.

You are your body.

If you believe you are in the work.g body that is nonsensical.

If you believe it so much that you are willing to self mutilate the you are so far from reality that it can only be explained by mental illness

Nice source

"Can you guys prove to me that water is wet?"

>implying the basis of an argument is proving a negative

Was looking for proof to fight some dumbass

"Although I thought I was completely sure of what I was doing, I began to regret the decision a mere three weeks after the operation."

"Some might say I was experiencing post-op depression, but it was definitely more than that. I also suspect that many of the other patients at the hospital who had the same operation experienced similar feelings based on my discussions with them."

"What really drove the point home for me was the realization that it required eight hours on an operating table to make my genitalia appear to be female. That pretty much tells me that I’m NOT female at all. If I were female, why wasn’t I born with female genitalia? Sure, there are some intersexed people with ambiguous genitals, but I’m not at all intersexed. My chromosomes are the normal male XY, with absolutely no abnormalities."

"The reality is that I’m male, and no amount of surgery changes that fact."

"I’m now four months post-op, and I’ve begun to transition to live as a male again. I feel it’s the only way to be honest with myself and with society."

"If you are considering this surgery, think very carefully about the consequences. Make sure that the doctor or counselor that’s approving you for the surgery is qualified to evaluate whether you need the operation or not."

"So many unnecessary operations of this type are carried out each year around the world, and in all too many cases, the effect is pain and regret not only for the person who had the operation, but also for their families."

www.sexchangeregret.com

Start with an asshole IS NOT A SEXUAL ORGAN. People who dwell on sexualizing their assholes need to get a life.

>Can you guys prove to me that transgenderism is a mental illness?

Males cannot give birth and women can't make eachother pregnant.

Transgenderism does not exist. People do not have a gender, they have a sex.
If you believe you are a sex that you are not then you are delusional.

fuck off stryker

Loop up "gender disphoria", a recognized mental illness that trannies up until recently claimed to have to explain their delusions.
Or just prove that chicks with dicks are dudes (chromosomes, fingerprints, reproductive functionality, etc.), and tell them how thinking you are something you clearly are not is obviously delusional. Ask them why a guy who thinks he's a giraffe isn't obviously mentally ill.
By the way, you likely wouldn't be able to convince them no matter what. The beliefs that trannies are totally normal or gender is a spectrum isn't founded in any type of rationale or logic. It's like trying to talk a suicide bomber 3 minutes before he blows himself to hell that his god doesn't exist.

Well they had to change the name of the illness 'multiple personality disorder' to 'dis-associative identity disorder' to make it more acceptable and 'gender dysphoria' is an offshoot of that. Basically if you can't admit what the chromosomes in each cell of your body say you are, you are not mentally capable of seeing or accepting reality, and you therefore have a mental condition.
It's a propaganda tool to change the names of illnesses to make them sound better or worse (such as 'pandemic' which is a term downgraded a few years ago to sell more flu shots, even though the same amount of people (a dozen or so_ die each year and the flu is never near pandemic levels where every fifth kid is dying in a city. They use this panic to sell medicines when it gets cold out and people are no longer seeking medical help because they played outside the wrong way.

Transsexualism is a new verity of mentality that can be controlled by the left, to vote, to buy drugs, it's all based on greed and people who want the attention of being the new special thing (because being bi was cool a decade ago and now it's not enough anymore). Why else would a sane adult make their six year old child take estrogen and progesterone when they aren't allowed to drink until they're 21 because it could effect brain development!? Money, greed, that's all any of this is!
The best way to argue is point out how expensive the lifestyle will be and joke about people buying it to it, spending money for procedures to confusing them in the already most confusing parts of their lives. Find videos of people who regret the surgery, and also remind them that there is a 40% suicide rate (enough that the first doctor who was doing the surgery in the US quit because he felt he was sending people to their deaths psychologically). Also, 25% of the trans community also have multiple personalities or schizophrenia. Go figure.

It's not a mental illness in the way you think. It's not a hormonal disruption in the brain that can be cured by a pill, rather it is a structural problem of the brain (created by hormonal imbalance during pregnancy/morphogenesis).

Real trans people, not Tumblr trans fluid, have the actual brain of a male. There is literally nothing that can be done to help them. When a male to female tranny smells the sweaty shit of an attractive man "her" brain lights up like a woman. It does not light up like a man.

The only way trans can be cured is through changing brain, neuronal structure. Which is impossible.

The wolf kin gender fluid fakers should all be rounded up and killed though

cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Sage sage

I'd love to see links to your studies.

Does a gay mans brain light up differently too?

Paul McHugh is not credible. He has long had an anti-trans agenda driven by personal beliefs and not science, in my opinion.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder
we should work on treatments that are not permanent and often times dangerous like an operation.
just read some of the regret story's.
and connect the dots.

Do you really think someone sane would become a tranny ?

ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code F64.9

The science is out there.

This Amerilard sums it up.

>Basically if you can't admit what the chromosomes in each cell of your body say you are, you are not mentally capable of seeing or accepting reality, and you therefore have a mental condition.

Transgenderism is comparable to anorexia and other eating disorders in that you have an unrealistic view of an 'ideal body'. A body dysmorphic mental problem

>an anti-trans agenda

So he is a normal human being?

the whole ''trans'' thing was invented by the left by changing terminology,they love doing that.
mtf trans=cross dresser
mtf trans w/boobs=dedicated cross dresser
mtf trans w/hormones replaced=poisoned crossdresser
mtf trans after surgery=eunuch
ftm trans=angry bull-dyke
ftm trans w/surgery=mutilated angry bull-dyke

there is nothing new here but the left acts like they are cutting edge science.

>multiple personality disorder
Gender dysphoria has nothing to do with that. There is only one personality.
It's not a delusion either. People who really have gender dysphoria know what they are and what they aren't that's the essence of dysphoria. If you're a boy you know very well you're not a girl, and that causes psychological distress.

>Transsexualism is a new verity of mentality
It's not new, it's been around a long time.

>40% suicide rate
That's attempt rate, not actual completed suicides. The attempts by trans people tend not to succeed so it's more a cry for help than a true desire to die. This is also a lifetime rate, not a postsurgical rate. It's not surprising that severe dysophoria would make people suicidal.

What i remember is that the guy who invented this whole transgender thing was a pedophile.

No, it means he's an opinionated pundit and not a citeable authority on gender issues. He's entitled to his opinion but that's all it is, an opinion.

fpbp

Riiiiiight.

You cannot be "Trans-Gender"
when there are just the two genders,
They are: "Female" and/or "Male".

And are determined your mother (XX) gives you her X chromosome, and your father (XY) either gives you an X, or a Y chromosome.

It's a 50/50 chance, if you receive an XY, you are a male. (XY)
If you receive an XX, you are a female (XX)

There is no "Non-Binary" ability, you are either one or the other.

However, VERY RARES genetic cases CAN happen when one may receive something like an XXY, etc.

This however is just a genetic mishap, and it's not actually engraved into the genetic DNA of Homo-sapiens.
And shouldn't count in as such.
You are still either Male, or Female, either way.

You wouldn't label a man with one arm cut off as a new species of Human.

The ''wrong brain'' argument for trannyness is nonsense. It's not backed by science at all. MTF trannies who are gay men have brains different from standard males on 5 of the 6 sexually dimorphic brain regions, but different from women on all six. MTF trannies who are attracted to women (they identify as ''trans lesbians'', but they're straight men) have typical male brains. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3180619/

Keep in mind that studies have found gay men to have similar brains to straight women and same for lesbians and straight men (news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/06/080616-gay-brain_2.html) This is the typical argument that would be used to argue that trannies have female brains, yet no one is transgender is this study. This is compounded by modern neuroscience studies who have found that there is no internal consistency in male brains and female brains, and that all people have regions of the brain that can be more commonly associated with men, women or both. (pnas.org/content/112/50/15468.abstract) Trannies get BTFO because they can't claim having ''feminized'' regions of the brain makes them female, since having ''opposite sex'' brain structure is actually more common than not among humans.

Even basic knowledge of fetal development blows holes in tranny ideology. They claim they had the wrong hormones in the womb, yet male fetuses start producing testosterone at 9 weeks and this is when male genitalia and the brain start to develop. Trannies are normal men born with functional male genitals and they all undergo puberty normally.

Go forth and debunk trannies.

>The DSM-5 moved this diagnosis out of the sexual disorders category and into a category of its own
>The diagnosis was renamed from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria", after criticisms that the former term was stigmatizing.

In other words, they accurately labeled it a disorder, but got so much flack for it they had to change the name and create its own special category so as not to offend the SJW hordes.

>ADD makes it hard for some people to focus for a long time
MENTAL ILLNESS
>Transgenderism makes people cut their penises off
NOT A MENTAL ILLNESS

What did he mean by this???

The left has used basically both sides, that transgenders are based in objectivity (biology, can be observed and measured) and at the same time arguing that sex is subjective (there is no biology, you cannot fully observe or measure).
If only the trans community and their leftist advocates picked just one, an argument and complete understanding could finish being fleshed out in the minds of everyone trying to reconcile transgenders, but they keep switching arguments. My guess is that is is completely a mental illness or at least a mental condition that should be treated rather than embraced.

I'm just wondering if the quality of life was improved. Most if not all transsexuals hate being alive cause of the cognitive dissonance of their affliction. The drug may suppress the impulse towards a sex change and identification with the opposite sex but if their contentment with themselves as the gender they are becomes neutral instead of self respective of their biological sex are they really even 'treated'? They may not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance but it seems like the treatment is likewise to using ssris to last longer in bed. You aren't cured of being a one pump wonder you're just suppressing your labido and dulling yourself out to make up for lacking sex god status (fucking zoloft of all things).

Idk if there's anyone in here that's either well versed or majored in neurology that can help elaborate on my question because I'm not unfortunately.

When someone thinks they are something they are not, they are suffering under a delusion.

If you were born white, but think you are black, you are delusional.
If you were born black, but think you are white, you are delusional.
If you were born male, but think you are female, you are delusional.
If you were born female, but think you are male, you are delusional.
If you were born a regular person, but think you are Jesus, you are delusional.
If you were born a regular person, but think you are the King of England, you are delusional.

Someone could maybe argue that they merely want to use plastic surgery to "appear" as something they are not, but that's not the claim that transgender people make. Transgender people are stuck on "is" and "am", instead of "appears" or "seems" or "looks like."

Nobody can say that a person born female "is a man" because that is a falsehood. Nobody can say that a person born male "is a woman" because that is a falsehood.

A delusional person is suffering under a false belief. A person suffering under an all-encompassing delusion is suffering from mental illness.

>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8839957
That pimozide paper keeps getting brought up but it is a very atypical case. That patient was diagnosed as having delusions which is not the case with typical gender dysphoric people. Pimozide is an antipsychotic and using it amounted to a chemical lobotomy. Side effects can be severe. Another issue is that the drug only suppressed and did not cure the transgender issues. Finally, this one isolated paper is constantly cited by those who are anti-trans, but there's a lack of confirming studies. Instead this single paper gets trotted out repeatedly as if pimozide is a magic cure for gender dysphoria when even the Puri and Singh paper doesn't provide evidence for a cure, only suppression at best, and only in an atypical case.

Believing they are the opposite gender to which all evidence points to the opposite is delusional thinking.

I don't know, can I prove that red isn't blue?

Body dysmorphia is well documented as a mental illness

If you weren't a basket case before, you'll most certainly be one after your 'transformation' is finished. Not even speaking of the ills that befall you going through that. And yes, I assumed that shit.

>That patient was diagnosed as having delusions which is not the case with typical gender dysphoric people.

Thinking you're a woman trapped in a man's body is a delusion.
And yes, it's an n=1 case study, but the point is that it SHOULD be followed-up with actual randomized clinical trials to see if antipsychotics work to manage gender dysphoria. But you don't see anyone doing this research, because it's not politically correct

You are only arguing definitions. Trans people know they aren't exactly the same as people born as the gender they are transitioning to. If an MtF literally believed she were the same as someone born female that would be a delusion. That is not the case, and trans people tend to be keenly aware of the differences, and therefore cannot be considered delusional. Just because you will not accept a trans person as the gender they are transitioning into does not give you grounds to call them delusional.

The whole point of gender dysphoria is that someone who is trans knows they aren't the opposite gender. That causes psychological distress. Transitioning is done to alleviate the distress.

I hate trannies and I still think Paul McHugh is a nutter. Clearly guy must have been left by a tranny back in the day or something.

interesting

Simply put: "Sticking Feathers Up your Butt Does Not Make You A Chicken"

youtu.be/TpDLqxL5_tM

Yeah. I only stopped dressing like a woman and making people refer to me as one until after i stopped smoking hashish every day.

If these people actually saw themselves as the opposite sex they'd have no need to transition. It's not body dismorphia.

> Burgers know every current day half assed definition of something as non-topical as this by heart.
> Only 36% are able to point out North Korea on a map.
> tfw true cucks

There are only two genders you can't be the other or both at the same time

This. How can trannies say that trannies have a right to look however they want, but anorexics can't look like skeletons?

Plus, how can LGBT people say that trannies have a right to do what they want to their own bodies, but that LGBT shouldn't kill themselves if they want to?

>a urinalysis can't prove you aren't a crackhead
The muh proving a negative thing has become dogmatic amongst those too fucking stupid to understand the context in which the statement makes sense.

>trans people have the same suicide rates as Jews in Nazi Germany
>they aren't being treated like Jews in Nazi Germany
>their suicide rates don't change with any amount of treatment or enviornment.

you just had agp then

suicide and depression rates do change with environments like having an accepting family

>Either born with xx or xy chromosomes.
>Biologically determining the sex of the individual for the rest of their lives.
>Affected individuals have thoughts and behavior thst go against this absolute and objective reality.
>Isn't classified as insane

(OP)
Have you ever heard about the x and y chromosomes? Legend has it that they define your gender. Therefore even if you identify as the opposite gender,you still are going to be stuck with the genetics of your true gender. Trannies are utterly deluded individuals,deluded to the point they have developed an actual mental illness revolving around their identity crisis.

No, the difference in the suicide rates of trans people is statistically insignificant no matter how many people play along with their bullshit. This is because it's a mental illness and an "accepting family" is like telling a schizophrenic person that the walls really are trying to eat them.

When I see an example of a trans person living a normal life from start to finish without being on constant medication, killing themselves at 30, or going into sex work, I might buy it. Gay people were able to do it before homosexuality was more widely accepted, so don't tell me it's all because nobody accepts them. The reason they don't have stable lives is because they have a mental illness.

I have also never met a trans person who seemed stable and lucid, while I have met plenty of gay people who do just fine.

Normal state is to identify with your own body. Transgenders claim their body is not their own, claim it is a compulsion and there is nothing they can do to change that. Assign blame to brain. Brain is not working properly, therefore mental illness.

how many gay and trans people have you actually known, honestly
there is some lack of emotional stability when you first start hormones but many many trans people are normal in all other areas

Show me someone who has lived a full life as the gender they chose, worked a normal job, and wasn't on ridiculous amounts of medication. I have yet to see any example, all the "successful trans people" I hear about either changed after becoming successful or are in their early 20s.

>ignore the statistics, how much anecdotal evidence do you have?
Nice b8

Not if you can't figure that out for yourself, no.

This cant even be accurate. First thing most trans are male to female. And half of them have been clinically shown to do it because it arouses them. The other half are as you describe. Of those there is no other treatment that works as well. Trannies that go through the change wish they could go back something like 80% of the time.

And in the end indulging them does not budge the close to 40% suicide rate one bit. If they pill moves the suicide rate then its the best option out there. And people who try to ignore that are helping in suicide.

No, people readily acknowledge that people have multiple facets to their personalities. The problem with transgenderism is that those people have seemingly mistaken "personas" for "genders."

And even one wants to say that gender dysphoria is a thing, it's a delusion, and it's the delusion that leads to distress, just like a paranoid schizophrenic's delusions can lead to distress. Their perception doesn't match reality, and it's that stubborn perception and delusion (which also insists it is not a delusion) that leads to distress.

And no, transsexualism has not been around "a long time" relatively speaking. Humans have existed for maybe 200,000 or more.

Plus, why does it matter of transgender people or transsexuals kill themselves? I thought it was their body, their choice when it came to "gender reaassignment surgery." So why isn't it also their body, their choice when it comes to suicide?

Yeah easy.
Trannies want to be females. They have penises.
Wanting to cut your penis, or any body member off is crazy.
Trannies want to cut their dicks off. Therefore tranny = crazy = mentally ill =/= normal

attempted suicide rates drop with having a supportive family

do you really think its never happened ever?
just google successful trans people

for everyone, its not about feeling like being born in the wrong body necessarily, just an awful feeling about the sex characteristics your body has and how those characteristics cause others to view you

its certainly some kind of disorder but its not a delusion like a schizophrenic

Physically changing their sec does not budge the suicide rate. Its got to be something like vets who come back and feel the need to remove a limb. There was a guy who purposely froze his legs to the point where amputation was the only option then called an ambulance. There was a women with no combat experience who purposely blinded herself though that would probably need some proof she didnt do it for attention.

This is a brain problem and no one knows enough about the brain to fix it. The pill like many others just happens to reduce the worst of the effects and keep someone from hurting themselves. After that they need therapy and self development to find happiness. Its the same in the end as anti depressants and other pills. They stop the manifestation of symptoms and real healing involves figuring things out for yourself with some help hopefully.

It's still in the DSM.
It wasn't removed like some nuts like to pretend, it was reclassified, further solidifying that it truly is a time tested mental illness.

>Pimozide is an antipsychotic and using it amounted to a chemical lobotomy.

I don't think calling anti-psychotic drugs a "chemical lobotomy" is accurate.

How many drugs and medications which alter the brain do you consider "a chemical lobotomy"?

You think Pimozide is a chemical lobotomy, but estrogen supplements are not?

The 14 year old "son" of a friend of mine has already tried to kill himself at least twice of which I am aware.

>You are only arguing definitions.

Definitions are pretty useful when it comes to mental illness. If I was born a human but I have my belief that I'm a cat, I'm delusional, and I have a false belief. Transgender people do not have true beliefs about their gender.

>Trans people know they aren't exactly the same as people born as the gender they are transitioning to.

Do they? I think percentages help to make generalizations more accurate. If a "trans" person believes they are female, then why would they need to "transition" to female if they already are female?

If they would rather feel more comfortable "living life as a man" or "living life as a woman", that's one thing, but they still have not changed genders. It merely means they are more comfortable with another gender role, and other gender norms. In mammals, a change in behavior cannot result in a change in gender.

>If an MtF literally believed she were the same as someone born female that would be a delusion. That is not the case, and trans people tend to be keenly aware of the differences, and therefore cannot be considered delusional.

No, trans people can certainly be considered delusional. And it's a delusion made possible only by the inventions of plastic surgery and hormone isolation which enable the delusion.

Transracialism is nonsense, transpeciesism is nonsense, and transgenderism is nonsense.

>Just because you will not accept a trans person as the gender they are transitioning into does not give you grounds to call them delusional.

So if you do not accept a person on a street corner claiming to be a prophet or the second coming of Jesus, that does not give you grounds to call them delusional? If a person claims to be an alien from another planet, that does not give you grounds to call them delusionsal?

A man who falsely believes he is a woman is delusional. A woman who falsely believes she is a man is delusional. Nobody has to accept another's delusions.

Burden of proof falls on positive assertions.
Or am I wrong?

So why not correct the false belief instead? Delusions are known to cause people distress.

But paranoid schizophrenics are often given medication to deal with their delusions, they aren't followed around by yes-men and told that their delusions are true and accurate accounts of reality.

Why should anyone enable mentally ill people? Maybe in a time when insane asylums were common, it might make sense to go along with a patient's delusions. But society as a whole does not have to accept anyone's delusions about themselves.

>just an awful feeling about the sex characteristics your body has and how those characteristics cause others to view you

So it's based on self-hatred? Why not be more accepting of the body they have (the body they are)? Lots of people don't like things about their bodies, they wish they had this or that, but insisting you ARE this or that when you ARE not verges into delusion.

>its certainly some kind of disorder but its not a delusion like a schizophrenic

So it's sane for a male to say "I'm a female" and it's sane for a female to say "I'm a male" but it's insane for a schizophrenic to say "I am God"?

Here's the argument I don't get. It's about keeping someone from hurting themselves.

I think that's a big reason some people are opposed to suicide, that person is hurting themself.

It's also probably why a lot of people object to "gender reassignment surgery", again, that person is hurting themself.

But if LGBT people believe that trannies have a right to harm themselves, then why should anyone care about LGBT people killing themselves? If it's "their body, their choice", then why should anyone cry about LGBT suicides?

>but insisting you ARE this or that when you ARE not verges into delusion.
that is how being trans is often represented, but you don't need believe you truly are female in order to hate being male and want to transition
its beyond not accepting the way you're born, its actual outright disgust at your genitals the influence your natural hormones have on your body

its not even close to the same thing as believing youre god

Being a tranny is absolutely a delusion. Many now outright try to ''debunk biological sex. Some of them will make you think they're sane, by admitting to being physically male, but then go full retard and claim to be ''psychologically female'' or have a female soul or whatever.

...

the majority of psychological changes happen after hormones have started

still it doesn't make sense that a normal male would naturally be driven to do this
its a mental illness in some way but its not a delusion

I get someone who hates being male or female. I understand disgust at the human body. But if they've never been the opposite, how do they know that "transitioning" would be better? In mammals, a male cannot become a female, and a female cannot become a male. They can try to look that way, act that way, but that's just mimicry, a persona.

I bring up a man claiming to be God as an example of someone most people would call delusional, mentally ill, insane. As someone claiming to be something they are not. If someone can't claim to be another race, or height, or weight, or species, why can they claim to be another gender?

Although, Ram Dass said "treat everyone you meet like God in drag." And Deepak Chopra said "You are God in drag." From that perspective, pantheism, where God is everything, all genders are a kind of disguise that God wears. And the Sufi Meher Baba said that during the process of reincarnation, in an attempt to shake off past karma, souls reincarnate into new forms that have something opposite from prior forms. A religious person who believes in reincarnation could believe that a female soul has been born into a male body, like Caitlyn Jenner has said. However, psychiatry in general tends to be secular and atheist, denying a soul, but prioritizing biology and the brain. The people who invented the terms "mental illness" never had souls in mind. Before, religious people might think that a schizophrenic had many souls in one body, or was possessed.

Transgender people are interesting in that that they don't say "I am possessed", it's as if they say "I possess." Suppose a female soul is born into a male body. What if their job is to learn to accept their body? However, I bet most transgender people are physicalists who don't even believe in a soul, and so their false beliefs about their gender again just highlights that there is something faulty with their brain, their delusional false belief.

I can understand a lot of what you're saying
you're probably right that the majority of trans people would reject the concept of a soul...but the terminology is mostly used for the strong and persistent desire to be the opposite gender you were born as and for others to see you as the opposite gender

taking cross-sex hormones changes your mind and the way you think and feel as much as it changes your body
if you started taking estrogen you would slowly start to feel significantly different than you used to

so its not quite becoming female true, but its pretty far from just staying miserable as a man

Being trans is not a delusion. Delusions are when your perceptions don't match reality. Trans people are aware of reality and are dysphoric about it. The unease and distress can be bad enough to make one suicidal.

People throw around the term "mentally ill" as an ad hominem attack. The brain is an organ like anything else and at some level all mental illness has a physical basis, since thoughts arise from the physical processes in the brain. There are all kinds of different mental illnesses, or brain illnesses, with different manifestations and different treatments. You can't just throw out the label "mentally ill" and act like that settles anything without being more specific.

Obviously being trans isn't normal. A normal person doesn't question their gender identity to all or to any significant degree. That is almost certainly based in biology. Unfortunately the science is too primitive at this point to know what exactly is going on but obviously something is off in trans people. If someting is wrong, then the issues is how best to treat it. Right now hormones and transition are the best treatment at least in severe cases. For some hormones might be enough but not transitioning, some might transition but not get SRS, some might not be happy without SRS, it varies.

Another point. I don't consider SJWs friends of trans people. The SJW thing uses identity politics in order to accomplish the political goals of the left. The interests of the identity groups are secondary to the goal of empowering the left. The way LGBTs were thrown under the bus after the Pulse nightclub shows how low LGBTs are in the SJW hierarchy. Trans people are generally just trying to make the best of a difficult life and blend in, and aren't trying to hurt anyone, and don't have time for a lot of SJW stuff. Hating on trans people isn't going to get them to change, it will just drive them into the arms of the SJWs and that's not good for anyone.

>its a mental illness in some way but its not a delusion

Maybe transgenderism could be compared to the urge to get plastic surgery, since that's basically what a full gender reassignment surgery is.

When someone wants a "nip/tuck", or Botox, or doesn't like their crow's feet, or wrinkles, or loose skin, etc, they might get plastic surgery to look "better" (in their opinion), to feed their vanity (and look younger than their age). Maybe not all people who get plastic surgery are mentally ill, but clearly some people become obsessed with it, like Tobias Strebel who spent $100k to look like Justin Beiber. In the cases where someone wants to "become" another person entirely, could it be that they are maybe idolizing someone else too much, and have too much envy? It suggest to me some kind of problem with attribution or identity or attachment. And it's interesting that Buddhism holds that attachment is the cause of suffering.

I suppose transgender people "identify more" with another gender, but that suggests to me some kind of problem with identity formation when they were children. Some "I like you, I want to be you" thing or even narcissism meaning "self-centeredness arising from failure to distinguish the self from external objects, either in very young babies or as a feature of mental disorder."

But when someone claims to be something they are not, I think that is based on delusional thinking.

I guess its hard to explain dysphoria to someone who has never felt it
its a feeling of disgust and not really being able to function..its like I might as well kill myself if this is what my life is

i'm all for a cure that could stop it, but narcissism is really not a good comparison to being trans

Estrogens for MtFs and Testosterone for FtMs are just giving them hormones that are the same or very similar to natural hormones. Anti-psychotics aren't chemicals normally found in people. That's a big difference.
You should also consider that puberty tends to cause trans people severe distress, whereas cross sex hormones tend to alleviate the distress. You don't generally see the same pattern in non-dysphoric individuals. I think the differences in the reactions of trans and non trans people to hormones deserves more study. The problems caused by doping East German girls with steroids is something I should look into more, but it seems, as one would expect, that giving steroids to nontrans girls causes a lot of psychological problems, as one would expect.

Can you prove anorexia is a mental illness?

It's a choice. Kys faggit

>Thinking you're the opposite gender/Not adapting to your current gender

Do we really need to say more?

if only the starving jews in the halocaust could see us now

Sexual Dysphria with symptoms of self mutilation. If that's not a mental illness, then OP isn't a faggot.

the holocaust never happened cuck

...

So they have a desire to be the opposite gender. Should they be allowed to fulfill that desire? The problem is I think that desire can never be fulfilled, since gender is the state of being male or female, and mammals cannot change gender. Judith Butler would object, saying gender is "performative", but I think she's reduced gender roles and gender norms to one word, "gender." A gender role is a social role based on the state of being male or female. A gender norm is a social norm typically associated with males or females in a culture. You can't change your gender by changing your behavior, but widespread changes in behavior can change gender roles and gender norms.

So they have a desire for others to see them as the opposite gender. The problem with that, is that it's basically asking 7 billion people (minus 1) to go along with what that one person believes. There are bound to be people who refuse to go along with it. I bet most people have a desire for others to see them as attractive. But that's not how the world works. Again, transgenderism makes me think of narcisssism, where people may have trouble distinguishing the "borders of their self" as it were, as well as a need to be admired and affirmed, and "detesting those who do not admire them", and "pretending to be more important than they actually are", and "inability to view the world from the perspective of other people."

You cannot control how others see you. Everyone is at the whim of their peers.

If it was just about people taking estrogen or testosterone to "change the way they think", as if it was alcohol or caffeine, that would be one thing. But these people believe they can become something they will never be by taking those substances. It's like a delusion of grandeur, which is also a feature of narcissistic personality disorder.

Maybe they should focus less on feeding their ego, and focus more on losing their ego.