Objectively speaking, what is so bad about neoliberal corporatism?
Objectively speaking, what is so bad about neoliberal corporatism?
Brandon Edwards
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Nolan Jones
Neoliberal corporatism is an oxymoron.
Matthew Stewart
Nothing, neoliberalism has uplifted millions of people out of poverty and improved the economy of developing countries at a rapid pace.
Nathan Myers
If you aren't a neoliberal, then you simply don't understand economics.
Gabriel Williams
Absolutely nothing. It's just a meme.
Daniel Roberts
>nobody in your generation can afford to buy homes or even new homes but at least the Chinese moved from living on $2 a day to $25 a day
So this is the power of neo liberalism.
Ryan Wilson
*new cars
Grayson Lopez
It exist solely to enrich the richest among the global elite.
Jace Parker
Reminder that neo-liberal globalism is an unsustainable utopian meme. I dont give a shit about any dumbass stormfag conspiracy about jews or white genocide. This entire thing is predicated on the idea that an influx of immigrants will counter act the declining birth rates of the west, and fill in the gaps in our work force, which will save our economy, thus making it possible for the government to continue funding medicaid for paw paw. But the big fucking problem is that non of these faggots work. In fact, they not only just not work, they actually gobble up MORE government entitlements, only speeding up the decline. So now, we have even MORE people to take care of who dont work. So at the very core of this idea, its complete bullshit.
nationaleconomicseditorial.com
out of all the recent refugees to Germany, only 2% are employed
bild.de
2/3rds of them cant even read or write, making them basically worthless to the economy
zeit.de
Germany companies are saying how these refugees are unemployable retards as well
so of course, they are all on gbsmedats now
businessinsider.com
all this will lead to is a world wide ghetto ruled over with an authoritarian police state just to make sure you niggers stay in your space and dont drift over into the gated elitist communities
Ethan Adams
What about developed countries?
Jacob Butler
neoliberalism is moronic but it has NOTHING to do with corporatism
neoliberalism recommends shit like subsidizing farmers to not farm to keep prices high. this is obviously dumb when you could instead let them farm as much as is not environmentally damaging to make food less scarce, then turning around and giving the farmers extra money if prices are too low to sustain them. the latter side produces more goods than the former side, but the former is what neoliberals do for reasons beyond me.
also, neoliberalism promotes companies racing to the bottom to build their factories in poorer and poorer countries with less productive infrastructure and more legal room to pollute, instead of striving to become even more efficient by introducing newer methods of production and automation. neoliberals speak of "competitive advantage" as if it supports them here, but if anything the poorer countries are worse than the richer countries at manufacturing; the poorer countries just give the owners a bigger share of the pie to compensate for the smaller pie they're producing. the economy ought to be aiming at producing the largest pie possible, and neoliberalism isn't doing that.
David Reed
*comparative advantage
Adam Morgan
Refugees arent the same thing as immigration so your whole argument is fucking ridiculous. Asylum seekers for the most part aren't allowed to work legally.
with you
William Rogers
>muh semantics!
Flooding the first world with third worlders in the hopes that they will start working and fill those gaps isnt going to work. Whatever you call them doesnt fucking matter.
>muh pol boogeyman!
not an argument.
Brandon Barnes
Your just griping for inefficient use of human capital. The whole idea is that these countries will follow a path similar to the west and modernise. This is infact happening now with more high end jobs and education in china factories are beginning to look for other countries to relocatte to. You just want to keep the developing world a shithole so some dumbfuck hick can earn 5 times what he is worth and produce 1/2 as much.
Nolan Gonzalez
Literally not semantics. You based your argument on refugees, which has nothing to do with immigration. Plus your whole rhetoric and argument style clearly shows your from /pol.
So again
with you
Juan Bell
>muh efficiency
capitalism is as inefficient as it gets
40% of food in the western world is never eaten
Connor Fisher
>Literally not semantics
yes it is. You clearly cant even articulate a response. Please calm down and then give an actual response like an adult or I will just ignore you
Connor Lee
I might take "inefficient use of human capital" more seriously as an argument if what neoliberals turn to as "more efficient" use of human capital wasn't as dumb as it often is. Sure, programmers, engineers, scientists, and doctors are neat and governments should be working to produce more of those, but bankers? Stock brokers? Salespeople? Those sorts are bigger leeches on society than the "dumbfuck hick[s]" you mention.
Zachary Nguyen
I mean a functioning Bankiing system and stock market are vital to the proper distribution of resources and the raising of efficiecy, they generate value so they literally cant be leeches, as opposed to Randy, whose job can be filled by someone for half the price whose willing to work twice as hard
Blake Foster
What can you not understand? You based your argument on refugees, these points were then shown to be false and not apply to the point you were making. You proceeded to say this was semantics, when in fact it wasn't, now your threatening to walk off in a huff. Pls just go back to pol where you can circlejerk your retarded opinions in peace.
Aaron Cox
semantics. Who gives a shit about their legal status? How does that some how invalidate the fact that these endless hords arent integrating or contributing to the society and just taking from it?
Adrian Butler
If you don't understand the fundamental difference between refugees and immigrants there is literally no point in having this argument. If you want to talk about immigration just retract your original post.
Noah King
just work harder bro
Landon Parker
It's much better to produce too much food than to produce too little food.
Dominic Roberts
As long as it's of good quality, though. However, sometimes you have to choose between quality and quantity as resource constraints won't let you have both. the Soviet Union used to produce too much shitty meat, or so I've read.
Christian Anderson
Why have social democrats, liberal socialists and radicals taken up to call themselves "neoliberals" today?
The term was created, in the most recent sense, at least, to describe the kind of free-market fundamentalism and austerity policies that fucked up Latin America so hard that socialism and communism has become increasingly popular there after the fall of the Berlin Wall, instead of less popular, as in the rest of the world
Xavier Gomez
>If you don't understand the fundamental difference between refugees and immigrants
there is no fucking difference.
>but the definition is!
no one cares. Its still a wave of third worlders into the country. You are being autistic on purpose because you literally have no actual counter argument
Jason Sullivan
>Sup Forums has an entire board dedicated exclusively to politics
>"I know! I'll just discuss politics on the History board!"
Great thread, anons.
Nicholas Jenkins
the board you're thinking of is dedicated to "politically incorrect", not "politics" though
it's also a massive fucking shithole, which means discussing a subject like neoliberalism that crosses over into economics, which is a humanity, and is historical since it started popping up in the 70s and 80s over here is better than posting it on the "fuck SJWs" board
Jayden Garcia
>the world is germany
I can tell you the immigrants here contribute a lot to the workforce. They get paid less and often get exploited which is fucked up.
Ian Ross
...
Benjamin Baker
Juan Young
>it's also a massive fucking shithole
Because it's a place on Sup Forums where people want politics.
You have to go back.
Jeremiah Anderson
Objectively speaking, what is so good about neoliberal corporatism?
Kevin Russell
Why is this a bad thing? Or to be more precise, why do you think this speaks bad of Immigrants?
Leo Johnson
you just got proved wrong user. Why do you defend this shit when it obviously doesnt work?
Grayson Morgan
>you just got proved wrong
No I didn't I'm an entirely different user that asked you a question (which you completely and totally failed to answer btw) because I run into that factoid a lot and the people with two dimensional thinking that quite firmly believe they're onto something.
You know you can just call them spics and be done with it right? You're anonymous here no one will give a shit.Instead you're over here trying to justify your racism (which you will deny exists) behind manipulated facts using tricky wordplay that at the end completely miss their own point.
Juan Miller
kill yourself already
Hunter Price
>get utterly proven wrong
>respond with pissy shitpost
ok. Sorry I ruined your retarded utopian fantasy.
Aaron King
Are you stupid? Why is immigrant not working and only taking up gibsmedats bad? especially when the whole basis of this idea is that they will join the work force?
Gabriel Powell
neoliberal corporatism = coddling the weak and making the strong a minority. Making 20% pay for 80%.
Joshua Lee
Are you going to answer my question here:
Or are you just going to keep being a big pussy about it?
Easton Peterson
Yes, exactly that. See there are two ways of looking at that question.
One is your stance that was merely looking for a reason to hate them. In your mind it's clear that Immigrants are using welfare therefore they're assholes and need to be goptten rid of. Because really you arrived at the "Need to be gotten rid of" part well before any of the other shit.
However if you've ever applied for welfare you'd know there are a series of things that you need to go through before actually receiving anything. It isn't just a window you show up at, give a name and here you go there's your stuff no questions asked. It's a bureaucratic process in a bureaucratic country, obviously it's not that easy.
So a question arises again, why is this speaking so ill of immigrants themselves instead of moreso calling into question the welfare system itself that people without valid ID's, recognized birth certificates, SSN's, etc, are getting access to all these programs.
I mean clearly if you were in fact not prejudicial and not seeking to get them for being different wouldn't the approrpiate response to that fact be, "how do we change the requirements for access", not " get rid of them". Because afterall, if they're receiving any welfare at all clearly they qualify for it so clearly they're not breaking any laws or necessarily should be assumed to be defrauding anyone, so why is the anger directed at them instead of the system that qualifies them for the service?
System which, may I add, can be changed quickly, easily, economically and with no further harm to this group beyond their denial of service....But of course you would probably think that too lenient.
Leo Roberts
The problem I have with people like you is that your position conflates traditional immigrants with new-age refugee immigrants. America is a young fucking country - it's not possible to be against immigration here. We are what, 4 or 5 generations deep at this point? Everyone here is an immigrant. There is nothing wrong with selective immigration which filters for people that are able to contribute. The problem stems from letting in these large swathes of illiterate morons that all come from a culture that has been plagued with civil war for the last 6000 years and have been hammered into their heads from birth that Western countries are the devil.
I don't give a shit about "the white race dying out". I care about importing a bunch of degenerate fucktards that are going to ruin the country for the rest of us
Carter Evans
...
Joseph Murphy
This isn't to say I actually believe your study. Now I don't accuse CIS of out and out lying, merely question their organizational choice when pertaining to qualifications for groupings. For example their choice to make it Immigrant households instead of for every immigrant, reason being is that this lets them include into the Immigrant household groups families that have US citizen children (anchor babies) who receive welfare. Things like that raise a red flag that the authors had reasons for their study beyond the mere academic and makes me question the entirety of their findings.
However I disregard these misgivings and simply continue along giving you the benefit of the doubt, and ask why it is that those results necessarily convey the message you think (or I think you think) they do.
Daniel Powell
>the whole basis of this idea is that they will join the work force?
This isn't merely an idea mind you but following up on: This is a certainty. If you want to eat you will join the workforce. Would a compromise for you be a reduction on welfare programs or an increase in security measures with no reduction in immigrant numbers? I mean if we remove the ability to gain access to welfare without removing the need to eat they will have to forcibly enter the work force, correct?
James Fisher
>It isn't just a window you show up at, give a name and here you go there's your stuff no questions asked
It is if you're an illegal. Illegals have an easier time getting public assistance than legal citizens.
Samuel Morris
Nothing. Everything. Nothing. What is neoliberalism?
Logan Garcia
Don't believe you but it doesn't matter whatsoever to the point I'm making, in fact it would only emphasize it.
Jayden Taylor
>It is if you're an illegal.
No it isn't, there isn't a single welfare dept. in any city that will give me so much as the time of day if I just show up without any papers and ask for money every month deposited into my account or sent to my address based solely on my word that I don't have any papers.
Austin Price
>Why is it a a bad thing that others come tobyour country so they can leach off benefits and force the citizens to pay for them?
Use your fucking brain instead of using buzzwords
Xavier Ortiz
Read the thread instead of posting stupidity.
Christian Rivera
I'll make it easy for you, read:
In its entirety.
Brody Fisher
So that you don't feel that I'm blowing you off read this:
>if they're receiving any welfare at all clearly they qualify for it so clearly they're not breaking any laws or necessarily should be assumed to be defrauding anyone, so why is the anger directed at them instead of the system that qualifies them for the service?
Essentially if what you're saying is true, and I don't believe it is but lets say it is, it makes more sense to be upset at the welfare system for having lax requirements and then subsequently wanting to change those requirements than it does to want to deport people for using benefits they actually legitimately qualify for regardless of how lax the qualifications are.
Adam Ward
In the 30s and 40s they spoke of capitalism with a human face.
Neoliberalism is when they say, wait, why the fuck does it need a human face? The slaves know their place, why beat about the bush?
Jaxson Brown
>Illegals have an easier time getting public assistance than legal citizens.
lol let's see how many illegals call the police when they're in trouble
Matthew Howard
He's not wrong. There's a clear distinction to be made between immigrants and refugees.
David Murphy
>Nothing, neoliberalism has uplifted millions of people out of poverty
Will this meme ever stop?
Most of the uplifted live in india and china, two countries that are decidedly not neoliberal.
Gabriel King
...
David Bell
Not him but our politicians (neo-liberals and sometimes socialists) used the argument that refugees will provide a younger workforce that can generate income for our aging population. They could be europe's "mexicans" so to say, except they can't and don't want to work but rather live on welfare instead.
Charles Robinson
fuck back off to pol retard
Jaxson Phillips
>System which, may I add, can be changed quickly, easily, economically and with no further harm to this group beyond their denial of service
lmao this is why /his/ is shit and don't understand politics whatsoever, these 3rd worlders are mostly men, even if the welfare system goes dry they'll start receiving money from foreign institutions and people like Soros.
the main objective of african, muslim or whatever immigration into western societies is to introduce male population into the european market and push away European men out of it
Julian Robinson
It erodes objective standards. When you make it easier for plebs to live in comfort you give them control over taste.
Nolan Green
That's tin foil hat levels of hypothetical rhetoric you're using to argue against a contrary stance.
Liam Russell
[ ] Refute his point
[ ] Do nothing
[ ] Agree with him
[X] Call him a Sup Forumsack
Josiah Phillips
>This entire thing is predicated on the idea that an influx of immigrants will counter act the declining birth rates of the west, and fill in the gaps in our work force [yadda yadda]
Which has fuck all to do with neo liberalism.
Neo liberalism is about deregulation, reduction of government via privatization, elimination of social welfare programs and worker protections, and opening markets to free trade.
Well, on paper... In practice it's about putting developing nations into perpetual debt while allowing companies from more developed foreign nations to extract their resources and dominate their markets.
Either way, it's pretty much the opposite of what Americans think of when they think "liberal"... But such is the Orwellian doublespeak we're stuck with. Immigration doesn't enter into it, save that a neo-liberal would want to be free to pay workers less.
Jason Rivera
I've read your posts and they prove that neoliberals are just as ignorant as communists are on the topic of human nature.
You assume that bringing people from other cultures is good because they're more workforce for the country even though they're illegal but will it be the same once those people's populations overwhelm the local ones? America has gotten so many Latinos in a short span of time that in a few years they'll become the majority and since they come from countries that are more conservative regarding their ethnicity they'll also be more loyal to their origin than becoming intergated into their host culture. Stefan Molyneux did a good video about this here:
youtube.com
And that's not getting to the "refugees" who are just glorified economic migrants who they've done more harm than good to Europe.
Dylan Hernandez
>neoliberals are just as ignorant as communists
>You assume that bringing people from other cultures is good because
...and again, do you have any idea what neoliberalism about?
It isn't left wing liberalism (it's pretty much it's opposite), it isn't progressivism (even more so it's opposite), it isn't about opening borders to immigrants.
I suppose it has a habit of making developing nations even shittier than they already are, and keeping them that way, and in that sense, may encourage emigration from those nations indirectly as everyone tries to escape the resulting hell hole, but there's nothing about neo-liberal policies that suggests you should open your borders to them. The only open border policy that the neoliberal agenda has is in regard to trade.
Lucas Scott
Wut? Learn about China and India you dumbass
James Reed
They... Aren't... Especially not China - it's regulated and protectionist AF.
It's true, however, that neoliberalism does allow foreign companies to come in and industrialize nations that may not have industrialized otherwise. However, while that does provide some employment, once the nation shifts from agriculture to industry, it doesn't actually allow it to retain any of its own wealth, and pretty much enslaves it to larger economies as it is increasingly warped to serve them as its only function.
Brody Nguyen
>tin foil hat levels of hypothetical rhetoric
cool, but why did you respond to me with such a worthless reply?
Kevin King
Why do you use the word neoliberal when you mean the European Commission?
Tyler Perry
>neo-liberal
>government entitlements
What the fuck am I reading?
Nathaniel Ortiz
That "dumbass hick" is my fellow citizen, and he deserves a better wage then some random chump from the third-woirld for that reason alone.
Fuck you and your retarded worship of economic efficiency before everything else.
Levi Richardson
Neoliberal economics and politics place efficient allocation of resources before all other concerns. This is bad if you value other things before money or if you just aren't rich or skilled/talented enough to succeed in a global economy.
Carter Allen
it sporadicaly fucks up your whole country and society in ways that result in things like unemployment, debt, increased inequality and demographic collapse, as well as random crisis after crisis
and thats bad
Andrew Cooper
In general, they keep growing and enjoy more savings, though some sections of the pop (mostly unskilled or low-skilled labourers) suffer from having to compete with foreigners that can do the same job just as well as them but for less pay.
Privates and governments could invest in continuous skills upgrading, but most people have low ambition, and prefer stable mediocrity. Honestly.
Though the middle-class and the rich do fine economically - to sell protectionism to these people you usually need the "physical safety" angle.
Gavin Moore
When will labour unions go international like big capital?
Nathan Rivera
In China, there are SEZ, which are derregulated to chaos. You can do all kinds of shit you couldn't do here because you'd be violating labour and environmental protection laws.
Guys, neoliberalism is mostly about having low barriers to trade. It's not so much about how each particular domestic market is handled.
Matthew Nelson
>Neoliberal economics and politics place efficient allocation of resources before all other concerns.
nah from what I've seen in america everything those economics do is just relocating job opportunities from rural and suburb people to big cities or where labor is cheaper, in the end it just makes a lot of people unhappy
James Jones
Most labour unions already are, or rather, the big ones are part of international networks working together.
Isaac Reyes
More like international gangster network.
Noah Cruz
I know there is that in the EU, but never heard about it abroad, and it's not like you can easily sneak syndicalists into China.
Angel Turner
> deserves a better wage
> t. Pol
>more poling
Hunter Evans
How do you read "EU"?
eee-you or hey-you?
Kevin Smith
china has a centrally planned economy
Dominic Watson
>more poling
no, its what realy hapens and it sucks in a bad way
Adam Davis
Well approximately 2000 people in the world own 7.67 trillion dollars, which is just under half of the entire U.S GDP.
While it's hard to find anything wrong with international trade, neo-liberal corporatism does seem to funnel all the money into the hands of very few people.
Colton Anderson
but that is misleading since what they 'own' is realy capital in one form or another and that must be administered collectively in some sense, which means were talking several million people worldwide that actualy cotrol and dispose of that wealth, most of which dont realy have that large of a claim on most of it, which means its a sort of global collective organisation thing
Brandon Ramirez
I know that it is capital. But it is still pretty insane to think that those 2000 people have enough resources to give everyone in the world 1000 dollars each.
I mean, they are richer than the bottom 75 states in the world.
Nathan Murphy
the thing is its systemic, is what im trying to say
Gabriel Williams
Hey there pol.
Evan Brown
Sure, most of that money is probably in securities and property, so it's not like it's possible to liquidate it without completely destroying the market.
Jonathan Martinez
wew there's a whole load of dumb stuff coming from every corner isn't there
neoliberalism is pretty tame, fairly free markets, free trade, openish borders, some cash transfers to help the poorest and so on
it isn't corporatism, it regulates to break up monopolies and rent-seeking behavior
Lincoln Collins
>I know there is that in the EU, but never heard about it abroad, and it's not like you can easily sneak syndicalists into China.
You may want to look up ITUC (International Trade Union Confederation) to see how it works on an international level. Biggest union in the world is Chinese, however it's also owned by the state.
Regarding unions in the EU, it's not surprising that they're working over the boarders due to the freedom to work wherever you want. A different kind of labour market requires a different kind of labour union. In the same way that people working as lawyers have a specific kind of need from their unions, people driving a lorry between two countries want a labour union looking after their unique working conditions.
Henry Miller
>it isn't corporatism, it regulates to break up monopolies and rent-seeking behavior
It doesn't do that at all, because there is no supra-national authority that can do such a thing.
Hunter Powell
the thinking behind neoliberalism would definitely support a body like that is the point
Kayden Diaz
Which would immediately cause war I think.
I mean, the EU was supposed to be a economic union that could deal with monopolization and rent-seeking across state lines, but in practice that isn't what happens.
In practice people just get pissed that an undemocratic bureaucracy is telling them what to do hundreds of miles away.