Is taxation theft?

Well, Sup Forums, is it?

In principle yes, the only difference being that tax is "legal".

Taxation is the price you pay for living in a civilized world and not in the amazonian jungle like a savage nigger.

Depends on the type of tax

If you don't like it,fuck off to Antarctica.

Yes.

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Depends on whether there is comparable return in terms of services. Here in Italy you have to pay a tax on POSSESSION of vehicles, for example. If that isn't theft, I don't know what is.

If we get to decide where the money goes then no

If they tell us where the money is going , then it is taxation without representation .... to bad all representation is taking a cut of our taxes ....

2a all the way....

also no one keeps people in places where they "have to pay" high taxes, they always can go into shitholes and pay next to no taxes.

Taxation is NOT theft. The country belongs to its citizens which have democratically decided that they have taxes. Nobody forces you to stay in your country but if you want to stay there you gotta pay your rent for staying on other people's properties.

Of course not. Governments need to finance their operation and it's done through taxes. This is a crazy argument. Now high taxation, that's a whole different matter.

>taxation theft?
Only if you don't agree with roads or infrastructure stuff like EMS or police.

actually in america it's the price we pay for decivilization

The government isn't the owner nor the creator of this "civilized world", the money shouldn't be paid to them. It should be paid voluntarily to the people whos productivity make us as rich as we are.

>Mafia takes 30% of your income under threat of violence
>Gives you health insurance that cost half the amount he stole from you

Is it theft?

Yes, obviously

As long as tax revenue isn't used on retarded things I'm okay

it's actually the price you pay for nato to import niggers here and spawn halfbreed niggers

Depends on if the government is legitimate or not.

>but i don't think it's legitimate
Your single opinion is not the sole factor in determining legitimacy, so sucks to be you I guess.

both answers are too black or white
taxes are plenty wasteful and you can't say that all of them are the price paid for living in a nice society

absofuckinglutely

>The government isn't the owner nor the creator of this "civilized world"

this is a fucking retarded arguement

no the "goverment" didn't create civilization, but it provides services that keeps up the civilization.

Guess what happens when no one pays police/prison/military/courts or infrastructure?

Yes it is. And by the way, there is no such thing as "health insurance" here, I don't know where you read that from.

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Civilization cannot exist without production. Production precedes theft, necessarially. Thus, there cannot be civilization without production. Therefore, taxes are theft and not the price we pay for civilization.

A "savage nigger" likely lives in a tribe were the cost of reproduction is socialized and there's no room for specialization. These problems are solved when the by products of production are privatized and exchanged in a free market.

Capitalism saved your country from socialist hell. Be very thankful to it, snow tax slave.

>no
t. French taxman

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Of course it is

blockchain will make you redundant
that is unless you get mahgreb'd like you probably will, in which case a bullet/knife will make you dead

>Guess what happens when no one pays police/prison/military/courts or infrastructure?
What prevents these things from being provided by the market?

Everything government does, a private company can do much more effective. The government doesn't "need" to finance anything

>inb4 M-muh roads

The majority deciding something is to be done does not make it moral.

The majority could agree we should kill children and call it "preventive measure against bullying". It is still murder and still immoral, however. Taxation is still theft.

Just an example

The mafia could provide you with any service/good after taking 30% of your income and it would still be theft.

>private courts,police and military

yeah what could go wrong

Taxation has nothing to do with the rendering of services.

Legitimate governments have the right to levy taxes. That's the end of the discussion. The mafia is not a legitimate government.

You have to pay taxes to own a home here in US, you don't even own property here.

>be Swede
>don't pay taxes
>get shot

>The majority deciding something is to be done does not make it moral.
Morality is subjective and irrelevant. Don't like it? Fuck off and whine somewhere else retard.

na he gets stoned if he doesn't pay jizya tax

isn't that partially incorrect? I heard somewhere that there are still some estates whose owners hold allodial titles, although it's impossible to get such a title at present

Of course it is theft, especially shit like income tax.

Nothing gives a government the right to levy taxes other than their military might. If the government had no hired goons, nobody would pay taxes.

If you follow this "might makes right" way of thinking, I'm sure you're not one to object when you get mugged.

The only way any exchange of goods or services is legitimate is if there's mutual consent present.

If you don't like tax, stop using the roads, plumbing, electricity etc. that was provided to you with tax money. Feel free to build all that for yourself and do not go to areas where there is infrastructure that was built with tax money.

>paying for niggers and paying to get your country destroyed by satanic pedophiles is ''civilized''
wew

>blockchain will make you redundant
lol, no. My politicians' retarded policies will make me jobless way faster than that.

>that is unless you get mahgreb'd like you probably will
I voted against that with FN but I guess that's my punishment for being unable to convince my fellow countrymen.

>Nothing gives a government the right to levy taxes other than their military might.
Wrong.

There is strong consensus among every demographic you care to name that legitimate governments have the right to levy taxes.

>If you follow this "might makes right" way of thinking
It is not "might makes right." Far from it. The Mafia could indeed steal 30% of everyone's income and NOT be in the right BECAUSE despite having the might they do not have the right - because they are not a legitimate government.

>The only way any exchange of goods or services is legitimate is if there's mutual consent present.
Cool opinion, boyo, but you are not the only person on the planet and appeals to objective morality haven't been convincing since the 1600s.

> police
Nobody trusts police here and we have robust security companies. I don't know how we could live without them.

> private couts
This is a complicated subject. Basically speaking, if there is opportunity for profits, rewards are very high for whoever solves the problem. This is easily solved by a law based on the NAP in general(in relation to how people from different communities interact with each other) and more specific private laws(against smoking in someone's restaurant for example).
If the court provide solves a case in a way that's against what is commonly understood as justice and to contracts stablished, then this company will likely be out of the market.

> military
Easy.

>Morality is irrelevant

Then what the fuck is relevant? What the majority says? Anything can be A-ok as long as the majority says so?

>retard
keep the ad hominems coming, just to show how asshurt you are

Yes

>Anything can be A-ok as long as the majority says so?
There is no such thing as A-ok in the first place.

Funny to see lots op ppl on pol saying they taken the red pill, but dont understand taxation is theft.

No silly goyim, taxation is not theft. It is part of the social contract. Remember, that "contract" you had no say in and are forced to comply with despite never agreeing to.

Believe me, if I could get to avoid paying taxes here in Sweden with the recquirement being that I can't use anything state-funded, I would. Many would. Problem is you don't have this choice you make me out to have.

>all taxes are the same thus theft.

I'll give it to you that something like the income tax is theft but to generalize taxes as a whole is retared.

That's true. But for this discussion, I'm assuming we have some common ground. The right to your own body and the right to property in particular. You can not support both of these AND claim that taxation is not theft.

you have absolutely no clue how courts work, if judges are not impartial then there is no court, and by the very definition of "private courts" they are owned by someone.

I also really want to see what you do when some outside force pays of your main pmc to basically fuck you all over and also pays off the biggest competitors to do nothing, hey free market and all.

>Anything can be A-ok as long as the majority says so?
Grow up from your preteen crisis. As says 'A-ok' is subjective as well. In the end the world works in a very simple way. Action and reaction. The strong rule over the weak.

>You can not support both of these AND claim that taxation is not theft.
Yes I can. Watch:

Rights do not exist if they are not enforceable. Rights can only be enforced inside a community with legitimate government that adheres to the rule of law. Therefore, as your rights presuppose legitimate government, nothing that supports legitimate government can be considered to infringe on your rights.

"consensus" as in social contract is cancer that expropriates wealth from those who produce something to parasites who consume the fruits of others' productivity whereas the former rely on some vague promise that still unborn people will do the same in the future; this concept has metastasized through time and guarantees a quick collapse that is just around the corner

once a critical mass of individuals realizes that NO is an answer, we'll be left with two options:
1. violence
2. voluntary cooperation

distributed renewable power generation is steadily progressing, as is blockchain tech; once there are alternatives to infrastructural monopolies and bureaucracy, we shall usher in a new era, the libertarian right era

this

>social contract
I didn't say social contract. There is no social contract. The government has the right to levy taxes not because of some grand covenant with the people but merely because it can, and because most people think it's appropriate when it does so.

>once a critical mass of individuals realizes that NO is an answer
What makes you think that they don't? No is an answer, just not a palatable one. Hence nobody gives it.

> if judges are not impartial then there is no court
Agreed. How cannot private judges by impartial if their survival depends on having issues to solve tomorrow? You have a problem with someone, you don't kill him without warning. You ask for the help of a judge. You two accept the judge decision as true before it is done. You have to, obviously, check the past of this company. If you both don't agree in a single judge, then you can chose a judge and him too, and these judges decide accept the decision of a third judge.
I imagine these judges being related to the church, generally. You can't plan exactly what will hatch in a free market justice system. This is a draft, feel free to criticize.

Would you object to Ahmed and his gang mugging you at gunpoint? Or would you just shrug and go
>Oh well everything is subjective, I can't really say what he did is bad since that's subjective :)

Don't try to lie to me acting as if you're this stone cold dude who has no morality just to be contrarian, you have morals just like everyone else does. Yes morals are subjective, but you can not believe in property rights and the individuals right to their own body while still denying that taxation is theft.

You provide for the government, government provides for the majority. Don't like it? You are ALWAYS free to leave, which isn't exactly how mugging works.