Continuing the discussion on firearm possession in European countries

Continuing the discussion on firearm possession in European countries.

Other urls found in this thread:

esistoire.fr/produit/308WINCSM/cartouche-308-winchester-c7.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Go on ?

I think that's his point. There is no discussion about guns in the EU. Even if you can own a gun, you sure as shit can't use it to defend yourself without criminal/civil penalties.

>guns = freedom

there

Sure, if you have your bike and your bike-tools in the car with you, because you went mountain biking, they have no grounds. But cars don't run on bike chains.
So in case of a random DUI or crime checkpoint and they check your car, you might have to look hard for an excuse.

They confiscated a baseball bat of an acquaintance, that he had in the car for self defense. He even had a glove and a ball, to trick them. But the check happened in the early mornings. So even if he would be a player (which is anyhow veeeeery rare here), he was obviously not going for training. Additionally, he got a hefty fine, not sure about an entry in his criminal records.

Actually no, the purpose of this thread was to dispell that meme that spreads around Sup Forums and to prove that you can own firearms as well as use them to defend yourself in many western European countries.

The primary purpose of these threads is to inform and encourage western Europeans to arm themselves though.

Meh, locally ? A criminal judge I have been working as an apprentice at law for has interpreted the law ( Local trumps EU as far as Croatia goes) as Castle Doctrine.

If someone unwanted comes a knockin, we can blast them.
Although 5 shots to the head and 2 in the heart will warrant a cooldown in the jail be it a robbery - attempted murder or not.
As we would say "sve u granici dobrog ukusa" or "all within good taste".

Are you Europeans ready for the gun ban of semi auto rifles ?

Not gonna happen here. The last prosecution of a self defence law resulted in David Cameron (the PM at the time) having to appeal to parliament to regulate or change laws in regards to self defence.

Ain't gonna happen.

Here here what you need to know about French laws.

And since the one that wrote the EU laws about firearms a few years ago was a French dude, he pretty pied copy-pasta our laws, so our neighbors pretty much have the same laws.

If you have questions, I'm sure I can help.

Also, if you want to talk guns and laws about it, why don't you go to /k/? We know a lot more there.

original post as I said, most efective legal gun you can buy in Spain is caliber 12 pump action shotgun with 8+ Cartridges.
Rifles in spain can not use proper rifle ammo like 5,56 x 45 NATO and its max magazine is 2+1.
Hand guns or any short easy-to-hide gun is banned

>Also, if you want to talk guns and laws about it, why don't you go to /k/? We know a lot more there.
I prefer Sup Forums. Plus this is political too. The audience is more right. The majority of people on /k/ are already armed.

Dear gun enthusiast, for self defense purposes, is there a point to get anything bigger than an MP5?

>burger education

We can use to protect ourselves.
We can literally kill a terrorist on a street.

All fine by law

>That Zastaava M76 in 8mm
Good shit friendo, those go for $2k here. Nice choice.

Get a 357 revolver for teh fuck of it. Ruger GP100

No, get cz-75, best weapon for selfdefense. You do not want to carry something relatively big as mp5 all the time you leave your home.

Mate, especially if you're not trained, for self defense I can only advise a handgun or a .12 shotgun.

Also, if you're going to take something long like a MP5 SMG, take something above 9mm, FFS.

My granpappy left it as a part of my inheritance... Other stuff was m48, papovka and several walther P-38's.

I'm ready for any shit that could come my way except from a drone...

Range, accuracy, rifle rounds are better at dealing with targets behind cover, multiple targets, etc.

We can't open carry.

I see people carrying rifles where I live, but cased and I assume disassembled which is by law. I honestly crave for the day that we can open carry or even conceal carry (legally) in the UK.

donc uniquement category B pour un handgun? and you need to gun at the range often? What happens if some nigger tries to fuck you and you shoot him? No carry right?

Yes, maybe the assailant is wearing body armor. In which case, cartridges greater than 9x19 Nato are warranted.

nope, automatic submachine guns are great for self defense, but they are baned, cuz is not labeled as hunting gun

Czech gun laws are the best in all of Europe, no question. Czech guns are also excellent, love my Skorpion.

You need to be a member of a gun club to hold a FAC or shotgun certificate in the UK. Or atleast it goes same way to helping, if not a straight out requirement since the inspector checks with the gun club. Shooting clays and a passion in firearms is justification enough to own one though.

That image is extremely misleading and the Firearm pictures absolutely don't match the text for them.

Being dishonest is for antigunners because they have no honest positions and lying only makes us lose legitimacy

There will be not right out ban. Not yet. But they are already gonna limiting the ownership by more rules.

If the current changes by the EU are adapted by our government (which they are very keen to do), I would have to give up already half o my guns, if not all.
They talk about 'membership' in a club, which I have never been. I participated in youth shooting course provided by the military, long time ago. Since then, I went always shooting on private ranges.

Bro, my Yugo M48 is easily my favorite bolt action milsurp. I also have a Zastaava M70 with the proper RPK trunnion. You guys make great guns, no question about that.

I didn't make it but it gets the point across. Better than memeing the opposite that none of those weapons are available. Worth noting AK's are legal in .22 calibre too apparently. AR-15s ain't, but we have the M&P 15-22 and HK416 which are modelled after them.

Yes, a short firearm is automatically category B (or A).
You have to shoot several times a year at a range, you have to keep the renewal of your licence every year, you have to have a safe at home, you weapon need to be in the safe, unloaded, locked at all time.

I do not own any Category B weapon since it's basically a lease/rent.

Also, of course, it's illegal to carry. When you go the armorer or the shooting club, the weapon must be in a secure case, unloaded.
And if you happen to shoot someone in a self-defense situation, you better hope he had a gun and shot first.
If not, you are not engaging in a "defense proportional to the offence".

The mil-style guns on the market will be grandfathered in, no new sales will be had.
Containers ( as per the docs how they are called -.-) will be limited to 5.
I don't see a problem buying a few magpul stanag's now for your PE-90's and similar grails.

thanks, but I was thinking about france, it's not the same is it?

Good 556 ammo doesn't over penetrate home walls as much as handgun rounds.

This is exactly why US Police forces are phasing out submachine guns in favor of carbine type rifles in 556.

Don't ever, ever, EVER surrender your firearms. Tell them some bad ammo blew up your favorite rifle and you disposed of it. DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR ARMS.

ok basically useless then, thanks for the confirm
can't even get one in the us as an expat

France and UK are amongst the best and most lenient gun laws in western Europe - which isn't saying much, but we're similar in that regard. Just weighing in on the gun club membership thing. I'm not sure if you had your own land and it passed the inspection phase that that'd be neccersary. It wins points to say you shoot with an experienced shooter too.

Britain created the constitutional right to bear arms after God, and look at us now. I blame the Scottish for causing fear.

This is still a shitty end run around the ban, because then firearms enthusiasts not yet born will not be able to by proper guns when they come of age. FUCK THE EU OLIGARCHS.

>I blame the Scottish
Fucking socialists man, they used to be so fierce. What the fuck happened? Did all of the decent, God fearing Scottish men die at the Somme or something?

what about the magazine? in spain is 2+1 as a maximun

Nice "Fitty"!

>can't even get one in the us as an expat
Not necessarily true, a person in the U.S. on a residence visa can buy guns no problem. A student or worker visa can buy a gun after jumping threw a view hoops. I have sold firearms to both categories at a big box gun store, and they were extremely stringent on ID and qualifications.

>>1274872327488063
Thx for the info, not planning to get any, just curious,
No shitskin menace in the north of Spain jet
Never thought of the wall/soft armour piercing as an important aspect.
I've only used hunting riffles (friends hunters)

Not even that man. In the 1800s the right to bear arms was enforced from the Bill of Rights 1689. But the Scots caused a bunch of hysteria and fear of rebellion, causing redcoats to raid a bunch of Scottish towns. There's museums there now, of rifles that weren't found and confiscated by the British. This was the beginning of the end of Britain's right to bear arms. The Tottenham outrage in 1908 toppled with both world wars got rid of that right entirely. Gun culture survived well into the 1950s in Britain, the very last shitty remnants of it can still be found in parts of the English countryside today. Thankful enough to say I live in one.

Actuallyyyyy, the other day I went on a boating trip. ...aaand by accident all my guns fell into the water. Don't remember exactly which lake it was and where, because the sun was shining so hot. ;-)

>because then firearms enthusiasts not yet born will not be able to by proper guns when they come of age

That's how gun grabbers do it. They destroy the gun culture by diminishing the percent of the population with skin in the game. If you lose your gun culture, you will eventually lose your gun rights. They make owning and operating firearms such a chore by burying it under layers of bureaucracy and uncertainty that only the most committed bother to unravel everything one needs to know to be a part of the gun owning community.

Truly, the best thing pro-gun Europeans can do is to get friends and family involved in shooting. Countries with gun cultures (America, Switzerland, etc.) manage to retain their gun rights. The more people with skin in the game, the stronger your gun culture will be. Out of that, advocacy groups will arise and politicians will begin to see incentives in pandering to gun owners.

ah good to know, thanks, I'm on a J1 currently so probably won't work but if I come back I might be able to then

I do not posses a PE-90 anymore, and I was reading about very strikt rules regarding magazines. I would have to read about that again.
Nonetheless, look at Commiefornia. Do you really belief they gonna stop at this point?
Wait until the shitskins continue to shoot around with their AKs and they will come down with new rules. It will never stop, unless they are stopped.

People in Britain, even on Sup Forums, don't always believe me when I tell them what firearms they (potentially) have access to legally. British media has completely eradicated the subject as a reasonable point of view, hate to say it but mostly based on faulty reporting of US news which fits their agenda (you'll never hear of self defence cases involving guns in the US though). It's taboo in most areas, not to own guns necessarily, but to encourage ownership of a gun & for sports and what not, self defence doesn't even cross their mind.

There are no magazine restrictions on a shotgun certificate. Not sure about the FAC but seems unlikely. You need to set your purchases out until the 5 year renewal and afterwards too though, and this is before hand.

What happened in 1995 that caused them to change the laws regarding firearms?

...

> (You) #
>I didn't make it but it gets the point across. Better than memeing the opposite that none of those weapons are available.
No user it's better to spread the truth and not be a lying cunt like antigunners have to be.

It's spreading more truth when everything that surrounds western European gun laws is a falsehood & again I didn't make it but it illustrates the point I was making in text. Whomever did should not have included the AR-15, but the rest is standard.

I also can't edit for shit so throw a HK416 over the top of it if it bothers you so much.

By "restricted to civilians" it meant personal property, as in an army general cannot own one personally?

I bet it was caused by the Schengen agreement. The same thing that brought us all those shitty gunlaws and regulations.

We had burger tier gunlaws until 1998. We did not even have a federal law, and in my state I was allowed to carry my gun concealed. SBR was (and still is) unknown to us and full auto was just a question of price. :-(

It means civilians cannot legally own one.
You have to be law enforcement or military.

The EU must be destroyed. They're behind mass migration, islamization, gun grabbing and every other type of kikery. God I can't describe my hatred for these marxists. They all deserve execution.

rate my rifle Sup Forums

nice. what do you use it for? i assume like in the UK you need to pretend it isn't primarily for self defence.

I hunt boars and deers with it, I have better stuff for self defence.

Not bad. Scope is crap and hindering the rifle a bit, lovely classic fiddleback monte carlo. The wood has potential to be much more beautiful than it is.

Godspeed fellow patriot, though we are patriots of different nations I respect your vigor in upholding our natural right to bear arms. Keep them safe, make them secret if need be. No government agent may strip you of the rights God gave to you.

How often do you replace the cartridges, user?
Assuming you keep them in 24/7, that is.

I always worry about them taking humidity and the powder not igniting when I need it to.

got the rifle with the scope for very cheap ; 270 euros. It's in 7x64 meme caliber but pretty common in Europe.

Nice. Never been hunting even though i'm in the right area of it. I shoot clays and at a few ranges mostly.
My mossberg in last thread.

And same to you user. I live close enough to a range I hear it from the farm every Sunday morning. As long as that type of stuff exists we'll never completely lose gun culture. i was a member of armbritain for 6 years before it became inactive, not much has changed in the last few years in regards to gun laws but self defence laws were strongly enforced after the Tony Martin-burglar case here (partly thanks to Armbritain). Only thing I can say with enthusiasm that has changed.

>9mm

Such a damn shame, Luca. You ought to be more careful with your property. OH WELL, ACCIDENTS HAPPEN.

Can you own historical firearms in europe like pistols from world war 2 or something like that?

>7x64
Kill yourself, honestly. Was 308 too easy to find and too cheap for you huh?

you can keep black powder in the chambers for a very long time with no problem if kept in a dry environment.

a box of 7x64 go for 16 euros in Decathlon

There's a date on which weapons became historical weapons and "functional weapons" and I believe WW2 is a bit too late for that. You could own defunct weapons from WW2 though.

Applies to UK only obviously.

What the fuck? 20 round box? Those are like 30-35 euros here. How much is 308 surplus from GGG or other european manufacturer?

I hear stories often about humidity settling in (especially in paper cartridges) and the powder not igniting or the bullet losing a lot of its power. Always worries me.

Tell me, what bullet type do you use? The slug ones or round balls?
The round ones have more kinetic power from what I know but the ones that are more "bullet-shaped" probably have more penetration power, when talking about a human target.

not the same user, I shot paper cartridges 10 months old and had no misfire. They were stored in a wooden box.
Although I'll never use a black powder pistol for self defense, the trouble will be the same as using every other weapon and maybe even more because you cannot argue that you loaded it in a hurry.
If some armed people try to enter my house and threaten me or my family maybe I'll resort to use the pump action shotgun, but never cat B weapons.
.308 was a military caliber and hence forbidden until just a couple of years ago. Only recent weapons exist in this caliber. Hunting calibers are a big thing in France, they are expensive as fuck to buy but reloading is easy.
If you want an unregistered bolt action you can go for a Swedish Mauser model 1896, just don't fire too hot loads in it.

a pump action shotgun as opposed to what?

>If some armed people try to enter my house and threaten me or my family maybe I'll resort to use the pump action shotgun, but never cat B weapons.
But the black powder is a D weapon tho. The law doesn't say anything about "keeping a D weapon loaded" AFAIK.

But yeah I concur, difficult to explain how you got your 9mm and loaded it in in such a hurry.

A random cat C (.12 / .308 / 7.62x54r) seems preferable.

Wew, I though your gun laws were uncucked. I guess you won't be affected now that EU is banning semiautos that have magazines for over 10 rounds lmao. I'm pretty sure M1896 action can take quite a punch, not many commercial rounds are too hot for my granddad's gun

When a bought the rifle i thought i was maybe making a big mistake but 7x64 is very common in France.
Pretty cheap here : esistoire.fr/produit/308WINCSM/cartouche-308-winchester-c7.html

Shamefully these are considered amongst the best gun laws in western Europe.

round balls are fine and more accurate. I don't know if you can feel the difference in your flesh between conical and round bullets.

>round balls
>more accurate

Wrong

The unlucky recipient doesn't give a fuck whether it was a round ball or maxi ball- it sucks getting hit with any of them.

>If you want an unregistered bolt action you can go for a Swedish Mauser model 1896
D2 weapons are expensive mate.

No way, our, or even Sweden's, restrictions dont come close to West Europe's ones. We can own literally anything as long as we actually use them for their intended sporting purposes. Hunting weapons have some restrictions, especially semiautos, but they are only about the mag sizes when hunting. You can take the mag blocks of when going to the range. You can legally have AK clone as hunting rifle as long as you mod the mag to hold less than 3 rounds.

At this point, Helfeld fired several shots at Wilson which all hit him, but due to his heavy layers of clothing caused no injury and failed to penetrate. Upon Lepidus regaining his upright position, he fired once at Keyworth but the shot missed. Two police officers, Constables Tyler and Newman, heard the shots from the nearby Tottenham Police Station and ran to the location of the noise, finding George Smith, a local gas stoker, beating Lepidus while on the ground. Smith was shot twice by Helfeld, in the head and in the collar bone, but survived.

Pure slapstick comedy gold.

The amount of disinfo when it comes to our gun laws posted by some Poles in the previous thread is making my head hurt. If you haven't been going to the range for at least one year and you're not a ROMB member, you're probably clueless and you shouldn't be trying to explain how our regulations work based on hearsay. You aren't helping anyone by confusing the living fuck out of all the interested foreigners and other Poles who actually want to own firearms.

the actual law is quite interesting because "military" calibers aren't a thing anymore, but scary calibers still are : everything in .223 Win, 7.62x39 is B category, so a lot of paperwork and you are not really the proprietary of your weapons. In case of a divorce for example you'll have to put all of them in an armorer safe or give them to the police.
If the new laws are applied that means no more AR and AKs, no more than 10 rounds policy can ban the ruger 10/22 too and I don't know about handguns. Thanks for the info on the grandpa gun !
a handgun, the AR, something like that. But I may be mistaken because for judges a pump action shotgun represent something quite violent, maybe the Mosin or even the m1896 can be good for SD ? i can tell the judge it's a 118 old gun, totally obsolete now, not much more than a Nerf toy and they can buy it ?
loading the conical ones is a pain in the ass honestly, you have to maintain a very good alignment in the cylinder, grease the grooves evenly, things like that. Plus if you don't cast them yourself they are too expensive for practical situations, hence shooting below 30 meters.
got mine for 600 euros, very nice condition, the barrel is awesome, it's more precise than my never fired mosin.

Helfeld and Lepidus hijacked a tram en route for Leyton. Several members of the public escaped the tram, but while on board Edward Loveday was shot in the throat. The police commandeered another tram, and it was boarded by about 40 officers. Further along the road, the tram containing Helfeld and Lepidus was in danger of being overtaken by a horse-drawn carriage driven by Constable Hawkins, who attempted to shoot at the tram, but crashed after Helfeld shot the horse.

My sides.

Ow plx ..

To conclude, to the Frenchmen reading, if you don't already own a rifle .12 / 7.64 / 7.62x54r and a black powder revolver, what are you waiting for?

That's why I said western Europe and not Northern Europe.

They were literal anarchist Jews too lel

The new laws got accepted by EU parliament, it's only matter of time when they don't let you buy any "scary" weapons. I still have hope that our politicians tell EU to fuck off, semi autos are really important to us because our army is dependent on it's reserver and their skill. Though I am surprised they didnt just outright ban them, I guess they knew people would go haywire if they did

Really funny that 223 is considered a "bad" caliber there, I just got such a rifle like month ago for hunting.

Sorry, I can't read, I'm way too tired

By the way, does anyone know what the minimal possible impact of the new EU firearms directive is going to be? What are the regulations that member states have to introduce to make their gun laws EU-compliant?

I've read some drafts, but I don't know what the final version looks like. Still waiting for Turczyn to drop some info, cause too lazy to read that shit myself.