Taxation is theft

Taxation is theft.
Can you refute this?

It is but I don't see you doing anything about your money being stolen.

What would you suggest I do that would actually have an impact?

It's the price for civilization.

When someone steals something from you they don't pave roads and educate your children with the money they stole.

The logic behind "taxation is theft" is an extreme reduction that only considers the actual act of having to pay taxes outside of the greater context of what happens after.

So if I steal $100 out of your wallet and buy you a $2 cheeseburger afterward, I'm not a thief?

Without taxes there can be no courts and therefore no legally recognized property rights

Don't pay your taxes.

member subscription is theft

stealing≠compulsory contribution to state revenue

If you don't want to be taxed, don't work.
If you don't want to be stolen from you're out of luck.

taxation without representation is theft
taxation is otherwise just being forced to buy shit you may or may not want, but at least you have a share in the company to influence decision making.

It's part of the agreement you have for living in a taxed area, which is in turn serviced by your taxes.

>hur dur context doesn't matter
>look at me i'm smart guys

>It's part of the social contract

Contract = 2 parties involved in mutual voluntary agreement. Anyone here sign a contract?

>We need taxes to pay for stuff.

We need MONEY to pay for stuff. It doesn't mean someone should force people to give up their money or else throw them in a cage.

>Cost of living in society for roads and stuff

and for bombs, spying, debt, failing education system, bombs, highest prison population in the world, 138 military bases in 80 countries, corporate welfare, ghetto welfare, bombs.

Freedom works you teen bopping faggots. Stop parroting your dumb fuckastani teachers and chomsky cuck-sucking youtubers. If you can't imagine a society without an income tax better than this debt crisis war-ridden 1984 we're in now, then die. Because that's what will happen one way or another. Either live free or mother fucking die. Welcome to reality.

It's not black and white. The issue is not should we pay taxes, it's what should our taxes be used for. Just become some are wasted, doesn't make the whole concept bad

>Anyone here sign a contract?
Usage is the contract. You don't always have to sign something.

Do you want him to die?

No, you can't do that. You can't just drop the word "context" as if it's a magic wand that makes the definition of theft go away. Just because you are friends with the men who point guns at people and steal their property doesn't mean context changes what that actually is.

It's not theft, though. If you choose to stay in a taxed state and make use (directly or indirectly) of tax funded services, you're not being robbed.

It is theft. All that is transpiring is men, individual men, who are using violence against other men to take their property from them. That doesn't change no m atter how you dress it up. You can give members of this gangs titles, and uniforms, you can put them on TV shows in suits to talk about whatever they want you to hear this week, but it's still men stealing things from other men. Telling me to vacate my property that I acquired through fair, voluntary exchanges because the gang of men with guns that violently claimed dominion over my property are doing things you believe are "good" with my property.

They're thieves. You just admire those thieves and think of them as Robin Hoods, I suppose. But they are thieves. Violent ones.

theft is a social construct
you need to build a concept of property, ownership, and the rules governing it
and the conception that exists in the society you have elected to live in does not define taxation as theft
therefore it is not

Your property rights don't exist in a vacuum and are guaranteed by those same "Robin Hoods" you seem to despise. What if someone were to actually steal your property, who would you call? Who would try to get it back? Who would punish the thief? Stop being so self-centered and whining about upkeep costs.

I saw some bridges being built yesterday, and roads getting repaired. I don't mind chipping in for that.

Taxation as wealth redistribution is state mandated theft from the productive by the NEETs and unionized government employees.

>equating essential public works/other govt systems with a burger

it's theft if you aren't represented

You don't use government, it uses you.

Contract for exchanges aren't theft, libtard. You give and you get. If you longer want to give/get, then you have to leave.

They don't guarantee shit. They give and take what they call "rights" at their leisure. They've been doing it for thousands of years, and their supplicants have always found ways to justify it. You're all welfare addicts that think you're part of some "greater good". What nonsense. You just enjoy the fruits of others labor by having strongmen violently take it and redistribute it to their power base.

My rights are enforceable by nobody, because they are impossible to defend with these extremely powerful gangs about. That's all they are. The most powerful of all the gangs.

im 14 and this is intelligent

You do use it to enforce your "rights." Plus, government services such as law, trasport, and protection.

Your dad doesn't rape you because you can just leave!

Your husband didn't hit you because you can just leave!

The government doesn't steal from you because you can just leave!

I'm not a liberal you mouthbreathing convict. There is no contract between me and the gang you're advertising for. If I could, I'd end all of their lives. But I can't do that. Instead, they have me over a barrel because they are violent extortionists and cutthroat thieves who wield control over nearly every facet of my life. You can call it a contract, but the word means nothing when you diminish it to a definition of one-sided, unreciprocated violent force.

Nice false dichotomy. Or perhaps you're a feminist who thinks all sex is rape.
You agree to taxation by staying put and using what it provides. If you don't agree to it, then sod off elsewhere.

i agree that the majority of taxation is unnecessary bullshit but it is a necessity for everyone to live equally under the law, it shouldn't be determined by wealth or status and I dont see a world where everyone who doesnt do their part to maintain that lasting very long.

No I cant


Now where is your argument?

hmmmmmmmmm?

>There is no contract between me and the gang you're advertising for.
By gang, you mean society, you edgy nigger?
>You can call it a contract,
Because it is, and it isn't one sided. You only feel that way because you're a sponge, rather than a contributing member.

No because render unto caesar the things that are his

>theft is a social construct

Take that PoMo bullshit back to the coffee shop. Your worldview is snake oil. You're going to be a slave forever.

>They give and take what they call "rights" at their leisure

Not true, see: U.S. Constitution

Now sit down, beta bitch.

I'm 14 and they taught me this in history class.

>see: U.S. Constitution
You mean the thing which gives you rights from the government?

No taxation as it presently is would be nothing more than theft. But that itself diminishes the state of the issue quite a bit. To ask a slightly different question is taxation that goes toward causes you believe in and agree to theft?

It's not society though. That's the abstraction these thieves have used to obscure their gang for centuries. You haven't stolen from me. Men with guns did. If not for them, you wouldn't get one penny out of me. They do the theft, you do the taking. You rationalize it because you have to. This century it's some form of "liberal democracy". A few centuries earlier it was something. In a few more centuries it will be a new bag of tricks. It's all just theft and violence though, by men who are willing to take money to shoot other men and steal their property for gang leaders. You supporting them in this criminal conspiracy doesn't make it "society". It means you're under the thumb of these violent men.

Rights aren't enforced, they are protected. Read. And if you think the government provides services such as law and protection, I have some bad news.

Why shouldn't the people who can't build a society without stealing money sod off elsewhere? Seems like you're the one with the false equivalency. Glad you learned that phrase, though.

>It's not society though.
It is. The government isn't some alien body who took over your humble nigger kibbutz. Society wanted to be more organised to get shit done, and it has evolved into the varying governing bodies we have.
> If not for them, you wouldn't get one penny out of me.
And you wouldn't be able to partake of this society. It used to be that anyone who couldn't contribute was culled, or left to die.
So basically, you're an historically and socially illiterate sponge who pretends he doesn't need society.

kek.

The gang leaders don't obey the constitution. They have a racket for dealing with that problem. They fill their courts with men they educated in their universities and then groom them to strip our rights away and, like they do with their theft, obscure the subversion of your rights with a bunch of rationalizations.

How bluepilled are you? Do you not think the constitution has been shot through with holes by these judges?

This is how we know you are government educated. That isn't what the Constitution does at all. It doesn't give anyone rights, tweener. Learn to read before you write.

>The gang leaders don't obey the constitution

Yes they do

>shot through with holes by these judges

Like where, you dumb fuck?

no

The US government owns America, Americans own the US government, therefore paying taxes is maintaining and investing in your country.

>And if you think the government provides services such as law and protection
It literally does. You can't dispute that just because you don't like the way it's done.
And rights are given, no matter what your autographed charter says.

>Why shouldn't the people who can't build a society without stealing money sod off elsewhere?
Because it's their society? Besides, as we've established, it's not stealing. Would you have no concern if i moved into your house, paid no rent, and then complained about the way you ran it? Would i be justified to then tell you to piss off elsewhere because i'm butthurt at your rules?

>It doesn't give anyone rights
It does. It pretends it doesn't, but that's simply not the case. How's that propagandist kool-aid taste?

Taxation is tribute. Tribute is not theft, because it is willingly given.

If you don't pay your tribute, then you pay the consequences.

Taxation is extortion, not theft.

Bootlicking nonsense. You keep supposing that without these violent thugs you admire, there would be no society, or exchange between people, and organization Like we'd all just wither and die. This is how beaten by these violent men you are. People would still do people things. They'd still talk, and covet, and produce, and form agreements. Those agreements need not necessarily be violent in nature, as most agreements aren't.

It's all just empty rationalization.

Tax definition
A compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers' income and business profits, or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.

Theft definition
The action or crime of stealing.

Stealing definition
Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.

There taxation is not theft because it is legal and agreed upon and represents the populations desires on how to run the land though a democratic system. Being born in a country with tax means you agree to abide by it's laws because you are a citizen. If you say you didn't agree to this contract then you have no legal protection for me to not blow your head off and you are to be exported from the country because you just renounced your citizenship.

I still don't see why thieves get to "partake" in this society. I thought you were government educated but after reading this I now realize you are a government educator. Australia has coerced voting, doesn't it? No wonder you worship the state. They've convinced you that government is what makes you free. Society is not the government any more than society is the mafia.

You either have not read or do not understand the Constitution. It literally does not give anyone any rights at all.

It isn't their society.

The bad news is this: it doesn't protect you at all and will not prevent harm to you. It will only investigate afterwards. Use your mind.

No they don't. Like everywhere. There's not a single aspect of the constitution that has not been undermined by activist "judges".

They follow some of the protocols in the constitution that facilitate their power, but anything that obstructs it gets tossed aside. Including your rights.

Tell me, do you truly believe you're as free as the average American man in 1791?

>You keep supposing that without these violent thugs you admire, there would be no society, or exchange between people,
Not at all what i'm saying. I know 100% those things would continue. You just don't seem to understand the function of central governance. Without it, you'd be making roads and bartering for things yourself. And you'd always be at the mercy of a group who it more organised.
Like i said, aliens didn't come down from space and put government over all of us. Society formed it. Just because some are shit now doesn't change that.

>I still don't see why thieves get to "partake" in this society.
Because they're not thieves, and they're you. Anyone can run for office themselves. Besides, they partake by giving and distributing. You benefit from trade networks, defense, law, medicine, and so on.
> Australia has coerced voting
Yup. The idea is that everyone has their say. Unless (((someone))) abused that system.
>No wonder you worship the state.
Hah! Australians hate our government. All (((elected officials))) are media puppets.
>They've convinced you that government is what makes you free.
Nope. That sounds like America.

>It literally does not give anyone any rights at all.
Aight then. What does?

>Without these violent thugs threatening your life everyday, you'd be free to build things you can't now, and barter in terms you can't now.

How is this an argument against the theft being perpetrated by these men?

>No they don't. Like everywhere

Holy fuck you're an idiot

>Tell me, do you truly believe you're as free as the average American man in 1791?
>Free: able to act or be done as one wishes

More so

Subsidies? Anyways. Bible says "give to Caesar that which is his and to God that which is His"
/thread

Pretty bluepilled stuff. You just get in from The_Donald?

Let's talk about the commerce clause, bluepill. Do you think the Supreme Court's current interpretation of it is correct? Let's start there.

...

Only retarded edgy teens dispute the need for taxes, the rate of the taxes is another dispute

>It literally does not give anyone any rights at all.
>Aight then. What does?

Anyone with any sort of intellectual honesty would ask "Then what does it do?" not "Ok, what gives you rights then?" You ain't derailing this train with that bullshit, NickJr.

that depends if you were empowered by a democratically elected government to do so within the laws enacted by said government and enforced with impartial justice to all citizens

>these men
Lol.
>Without these violent thugs threatening your life everyday
They aren't, though. It's like how trade guilds worked in medieval England.
You became a member, and paid your annual dues. With that, you were afforded certain protections. The leaders worked for you, and you worked for them. They gave you greater bargaining power, the same way tribesmen would join together to till land or attack other tribes. Because you can achieve more with more people working together. But those people then need organising.

>Anyone with any sort of intellectual honesty would ask "Then what does it do?"
I know what it does. But wow, the wheels came off your train of thought pretty easily, huh?

What does this have to do with my freedom, monsieur red pill?

kek. Democracy? Which in our form is what? Some people going to elementary schools and churches once a year to check a box next to a name on a form drew up by the gang we're talking about, to choose the next gang leaders for a little while.


None of this circumvents the result. Which is men being hired to shoot people and take their property from them to give to the gang leaders. Who gives a fuck if you think you "elected" them in one of their dirty corrupt elections with rules that you had no part in crafting and are violently disposed of if you disobey? They are still violent thugs that take things from others. Why else did you hire them? Because you know nobody would play by their bullshit rules if not for the violence they routinely employ against us.

You're a bootlicker. I understand that's a tough pill to swallow, and you'll engage in any nunber of mental acrobatics to avoid it, but it's still true.

You owe it to your civilized state that's allowed for your comfy lifestyle. You have no real reason not to pay your fair share of taxes. If you hate it so much then go innawoods, faggot.

>having people to save your house if it's caught on fire
>having people to save your life if you are injured
>having people to deal with niggers for you and keep your shit safe
>having clean water
>having roads that are well-made and maintained
>having fireworks and decorations for events + holidays
>having trash and vermin removed from your vicinity
>having public transportation
>having parks for your fat ass to walk in(unlikely)
>GIB FREE PLZ

You use these services- therefore, you pay for them. The only things that are not of direct benefit to you are shit like medicare/social security, and that's only because that should be self-funded.

I remember being jealous of the older kids, too.

>I know what it does.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

I don't give a fuck how medieval guilds worked. I'm talking about the gangs you call "military" and "police" and "government". They employ violence against people and take their possessions away by force. That is what they do. If that's not theft, then theft doesn't mean anything as a word. It becomes nebulous and pointless.

The subversion of the commerce clause is how they snuck in all sorts of federal controls over your life, from regulations, to federal drug laws, to federal gun laws, all that shit comes from commerce clause subversion. The founders' federal government couldn't do any of that shit.

>No argument
Lol.

>I'm talking about the gangs you call "military" and "police" and "government"
Military has nothing to do with it, and police are a function of the government along with fire department and ambulance service.
>They employ violence against people and take their possessions away by force.
Only contract breakers. Funnily enough, that's something which benefits you. Unless you're a dindu, i suppose. Otherwise, would you want actual gangs to be able to accost you with no repercussion? Because in such a case you'd have no way of getting treated afterwards, or defending yourself during.

Taxation is voluntary payment for services rendered. I say voluntary, because if you don't want to pay them, all you have to do is stop using government services (in other words, fuck off somewhere else)

When they say people see the state as a religion, your list is a perfect example. Government as healer, provider, protector. Pathetic.

So what if it's theft? It's a necessary evil.
No country survives based on morality alone.

Haven't you faggots always wake up only when shit hits the fan so hard it's irrepairable, there would be no taxation.

Also, what's your opinion on charities? How many charities you've participated in?

Again, there is no contract. You can say the word all you want, but it is not a magical wand. What you are describing is not in any meaningful sense contractual, it is violent force. It has to be. That is the only way you will get the things in my possession that I would otherwise not surrender to you. You can't get it any other way than to violently take it from me. Which is why these men do it. How else are they to get it?

>Government as healer, provider, protector.
So you're able to do all those things yourself?

without representation, yeah.

moron

...

>Again, there is no contract.
There is. Contract = agreement.
>What you are describing is not in any meaningful sense contractual, it is violent force
I mean, all agreements are. Otherwise it's just a donation.
>That is the only way you will get the things in my possession that I would otherwise not surrender to you.
Like a child, only thinking of things in your possession, not the things you're paying for.

There's no argument to be made with someone who claims to know the Constitution and yet says it gives people rights. That's less than not an argument. It's ignorance. Read it maybe?

Taxation that is allowed by the people is not theft. Taxation in excess of what the people have agreed to or taxation at the poibt of a gun/sword/spear is tyranny and theft.

Not all taxation is theft.

>Freedom works you teen bopping faggots

Citation needed on that.

>Either live free or mother fucking die.

How about we live free, and you die? That's what "hurr durr, le stronk survive, no taxes" communities tend to do when people get pissed.

1. Doesn't affect my freedom

2. Regulations, drugs and guns aren't guaranteed by the constitution so the current regime aren't whimsically depriving us of fundamental rights, ergo you're butthurt and completely detracted from the original point of discussion because you just want to feel persecuted like a feminist/black lives matter activist. All of you complaining cucks are the same; you're dissatisfied with your life and rather than introspecting and taking initiative you wildly fling your shit.

>muh you get free health-care
>muh build road

>Why shouldn't the people who can't build a society without stealing money sod off elsewhere?

Make them. Only don't whine about your ass getting shot, you fucking pussy. Expecting other to piss off for your wet fantasies of "freeduhm".

No, contract does not just mean agreement, there is more to contracts than mere agreements. Which is why we have the word contract. Also, it's not an agreement. I agree to nothing. I am simply being robbed by violent thugs who are threatening to kill me if I assert my claim over property that I hold and acquired in exchanges with other parties. That's all it is. All you do is keep adding spices and dressing to it. But it's just violent men looking down the barrel of their guns and saying, "hand it over." That's not paying. That's submitting because your life means more to you than your property.

Obey the law and pay your taxes.

But you can vote for elected officials and engage them. You should also explain to other potential voters to do the same. Educate them on how their taxes are spent and if they really want them to be spent that way.

The only time you should reach for your weapon is if you or others in your charge are in immediate danger.

Funny that if OP doesn't pay, the government has the ultimate recourse of violence to enforce the law. We, as citizens give the government a mandate to use this force appropriately.

Ultimately taxes and any other kind of law carryy the implicit threat of violence.

>Government as healer, provider, protector.
>So you're able to do all those things yourself?
You mean go to a doctor, get a job, and buy a gun?

WTF, user.

Taxation is theft. Only traumatited people aren't able to see that.

It does affect your freedoms. Just because you don't care about those particular freedoms doesn't mean they're not freedoms. Or would be freedoms if the government didn't strip you of them. It doesn't actually matter what the constitution guarantees or doesn't. That presupposes the government doesn't subvert the constitution, which they do.

no it's just a monopoly that you're mandated to pay for, no matter how overpriced and malfunctioning it is

im not advocating for removing government just significantly reducing the capital it manages and thereby its responsibilities/powers

big government won't solve your fucking problems. Grow the fuck up.

A contract can be written or verbal, you realize that right?

With representation, too. Think about who taught you "No taxation without representation" and who teaches you "yes of course you are represented in government" and you'll see who really is the moron is real quick. It's theft either way, bro, because it isn't voluntary. Your representatives do not represent you. Realize this sooner and life is better.

He expects that some altruistic rich faggot will come and do it for him without asking everything in return.

That being said, you really should just make one state free of taxation, move all those fags there and watch how they will work for themselves.

Make them outlaws only.
After all, law is the tool of evil government.