CHRISTFAGS

>CHRISTFAGS

What are the best arguments for theism?

I am possibly interested in attending church, I can't make myself believe the stories in the bible as fact (some christfags get retarded with this).

HOWEVER I am open to theist arguments for GOD, should I see some reasonable arguments for theism I would be happy to attend church to accept and preserve my Anglo/western culture.

If don't need to believe the stories as literal as long as I can at least be somewhat convinced that there may be a god or whatever.

Other urls found in this thread:

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/125637346/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TVaeZAtP70U5Co5WOirhinQ&v=s2ULF5WixMM
youtube.com/watch?v=VnjzJdDlaqo
twitter.com/AnonBabble

if the universe has infinite time, doesnt it stand that in a gazillion years all the atoms of this universe will reform in the exact same pattern it was created from? Think about it.....infinite time..... Either we are immortal of there is an afterlife

What determines the laws of the universe? The universe is farrrr too finely tuned for there not have been an intelligent designer


Plancks constant is too precise...if that was off by even the slightest amount, life would not exist

Afterlife (heaven) seems like a weak argument. What else you got?

>What are the best arguments for theism?
these digits

>to accept and preserve my Anglo/western culture.
You mean your jewish culture?

How come Christians are the most universally hated even though the Catholic church is the largest charity in the world? I'll admit there is bad that comes from Christianity in general, but if it did not exist, the world would be a much darker place.

The amount of hate we recieve seems almost insane at times. Muh le crusades meme applies here. But why is this?

If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.

This is better. I frequently get the feeling of what the fuck why does all this shit exist when I'm just driving to work etc, the universe existing confuses me.

I am open to these arguments about the logic in there being a creator, it doesn't have to be literal to the bible. It doesn't need to be a sky magician in the sky, the argument you just made about this thing we live in being so finely tuned is a good one.

>im open
>isolates one specific faith

Truly a superior mind.

My Anglo culture, I don't know what shamanistic shit your culture believe Jamal.

Here we go, thread is over.

Nice reading comprehension. I said I'm open to the idea of a creator, I don't believe any religious text is legitimate.

But if I believe in a god and want to join a community why the fuck would I pick Islam?? I'm not an americuck begging for more Arab penis up my anus.

>I'm too retarded to understand to know how the universe works, therefore an imaginary skydaddy created everything and a fairytale book is true

Agreed, athiests and agnostics are retarded when it comes to this, "Well it just happened!!!" - hmmm sounds like what a lot of religious people use to justify the bible instead of investigating it....something they seem to be very fond of criticising religious people for.

I can see the arguments for deism, but a particular religion is based on a leap of faith

Point out where he is wrong and you know better.

Huehue my imaginary skydaddy meme


You realise you literally have nothing else to use, so you fall back on ad hominems?

Whats causing you to be so angry brother?

Your anglo culture was destroyed by Christianity. What you're saying is no different than in 100 years when Islam replaces Christianity your kids will be saying "islam is anglo culture we must defend our anglo islamic values".

Not these meme again

I don't know better. That's the whole point. But just because humanity has not advanced to the point of fully understanding the universe doesn't mean I'm going to believe in a fairytale from 2,000 years ago.
You're the one who is claiming there is an imaginary skydaddy. Then prove it. If you can't then you're like a child believing in santa claus, the tooth fairy, or the easter bunny

Bad argument.

Ps19:1-4
The heavens declare the glory of God;
the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
2 Day after day they pour forth speech;
night after night they display knowledge.
3 There is no speech or language
where their voice is not heard.
4 Their voice goes out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world.

if you haven't already done so, read up on Thomas Aquinas' five ways to prove God's existence.

believe in a fear of the almighty. The most highly intelligent can see you

get outa here geert, your country is one of the most cucked in the EU. You accepted Protestantism which is the weakest form of Christianity and has now lead you to nihilist athiesm. Good luck with being dominated by Muslims and being outbred while your childfree *empowered* women live up the rest of their miserable existance in shallow materialism. You make me ashamed to be dutch.

no those stories were most likely manipulated or are metaphors

>How come Christians are the most universally hated
Nah

Stuff that's more hated than Christianity/Catholicism-

Niggers
Islam
Burgers
Coalburners
Kikes

Noone is saying its the Christian god fool, but just arguments for deism and intelligent design. Do you even read the OP? You cherry picking fedoras make me fucking sick

How is that a bad argument? Doesnt that stand that if we die and there is no afterlife the atoms of our universe will eventually realign at some point?

Except Christianity is objectively better than the child-sacrificing barbarian culture of the Britons.

The same can't be said for a transition from Christendom to Islamism

Seems like an awful lot of mad for an enlightened person. Sad.

Go listen to some Jordan B Peterson if you are actually interested in this. Posting atheist memes on Sup Forums is lame.

Every religious text all seem to be an attempt to explain the same thing.

The "hurrdurr the bible says this specific thing and that's retarded pfpfpfff" is lame.

There are many religious scientists, they may not identify with any particular religion but they can't ignore the arguments for creationism.

The skydaddy meme is fucking gay, get something better.

I've noticed atheists try and make religion sound dumb by dumbing it down like "i dont believe in a sky wizard" or "i don't believe in a imaginary friend"

You looking for logic arguments?
Aristotle, Thomas Aquinas, Godel theorem, Descartes, Anselm ontological argument,Averroes philosophy and many many more.

The best way to accept or believe in my opinion is looking for testimonies of converted people.
People that from miserable situations are picked up and saved.

I'm Italian and youtube is full of this kind of things, a incredible story in the one of Nuovi orizzonti of Chiara Amirante.

#roasted

This is what I'm after. Thanks.

Christianity dominates for a reason. It's the truth. Every religion has some sort of salvation. Why did Christianity exploded all over the world like it did? My guess is that Jesus was who he said he was and really did do those miracles. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it today.

Exactly this, its essentially a form of shaming someones intellect that you disagree with, which is a very effective technique for winning arguments (read: women)

God bless you based spaghetti man

Aww who hurt you user?

>but just arguments for deism and intelligent design
aka just because I'm too stupid to know how the universe works I'm going to believe something in which there is 0 evidence for.
Not really. Christianity was basically the same thing, so they had to reform it, which lead to its destruction, which is why Christianity seems better today.
>Why did Christianity exploded all over the world like it did?
Same reason Islam did.

Pacifist Church grows and takes over the roman empire despite being heavily persecuted.

Uhmmm try again sweetie.

Haha, people often argue in circles and get nowhere cuz all they care about is winning the argument. When you see these 'stories' just remember that allegory and type point to truth. You can make an act of faith and ask for the gift of the Spirit, but that would only mean the beginning of a journey, not instant gratification. If you're looking for someone to save you against your will, well, that's not how it works.

The universe had a beginning so we have at least one "half" of infinity gone.

Would the atoms that make me really be me though? Would my same ego exist as me again? If so then what sustained the ego?

Christianity was at a time a child-sacrificing religion??

Seeing as the old testament is the first half of the bible yes

God is dead

I hope you're either trolling or underage b&. Low IQ people people will not bother with the process of reading about the actual facts, so they just go on about in believing it must be designed or another excuse to justify their mediocrity.

archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/125637346/

Now stop being a heretic

>same reason Islam did
Um no. Islam did it through force. Christianity did it through preaching

You don't necessarily have to be a Christian, only a believer that something greater than you is responsible for your existence.

The majority of religions believe in reincarnation, including Christianity at one point; however, during one biblical draft, it was felt that it's easier to control people by saying "Give us money and behave yourselves or you'll suffer forever" rather than believing that you will have more than one chance at life. So, rebirth was only given to Jesus and was apparently denied to the rest of us as a result of this change. It was never meant to be that way.

Research children who remember their past lives. You can explain away some of them; the rest are just shocking. Kids speaking vividly of places they've never been from the moment they could talk. Historical records dug up proving everything they said is true. Older surviving family members who can vouch for the fact that yes, we had a specific breed of dog with a specific name who died of a specific illness mentioned by the child, and remembering the death of the family member who this child is claiming to be.

The thing in common with all of these cases is that they remember seeing a man who gave them a choice to come back to earth to live again, or not, and they all chose to return. They all speak of the same afterlife.

To think we're only here once, now, by accident, never to be again, is naive. You cannot deny something that you are not yet able to prove; you can only go with your best estimation and choose to believe or not.

Christianity did it through force as well. One example is Constantine adopted christianity as the roman empires state religion and spread christianity though conquest and by the sword because he had a dream in which Jesus came to him and told him to do it.
This is just one of many examples though

Oh of course. No doubt. But I'm saying overall it is much more peaceful than Islam

Do you have many protestants in Italy?

BWAHAHAHAH
>Catholic Church
The greatest terrorists in history. Hitch once said that if you lived a few hundred years ago as a right thinking man you'd oppose the Holy Sea. So true. All religion is bullshit. The ONLY question with relevance, as OP alludes to, is, Is the Christian life the BEST LIFE?

This is total bullshit. All of it.

Youre on crack.

Read the Bible.
TLDR-There is no god

Make sure to double check these sort of quotes you hear. One of the reasons I stopped being an atheist was because almost all of them would spew lies about Christianity even though they considered themselves to heralds of truth and reason.

The Israelites started sacrificing to a golden calf and gave their child to pass threw the fire because God warned Solomon not deal with the gentile woman because eventually he will begin to fall to the other gods.

You can look at it this way, even if it's all bullshit the overall values and wisdom you can obtain from the stories are good things to have.

and while you're there, eat a bag of dicks like a total poofter. Fuck off you dense cunt.

The best life is living on a farm with your books and you don't need to be a christcuck to do that.

Hahaha
Solomon was David's son... and lived a looong time after the rebellion during the exodus from Egypt. He did end up killing some of his kids by worshipping his wives gods, tho.
You guys are too funny.

no, but lately I'm seeing some evangelical "church" here and there, nothing major.

Typical Australian trash, replies with the crap fed to him from other so-called "intellectuals". Don't you have to pay half your salary in taxes to Abos you bogan fuck?

If you're not willing to believe in the acts upon which helped create the faith then you should probably convert to Islam as they have those types of people too.

Why didn't Jesus tell his followers not to rape children?
LOL - cos he likes raping kids!!!
Fuck off - Xanity is a lie.

flag. Coon detected.

>.if that was off by even the slightest amount, life would not exist

you've got it ass backwards.

And how do you know life would not exist? Prove that a different form of life couldn't exist if it was different

I like Hitchens too, and Christopher is infinitely better than Cuck Peter.

I have also seen many of his debates of him destroying religious people. However, I was always disappointed that the debates were always too specific to certain religions.

As In, he never really debated against creationism he instead debated against specific religions and there texts.

As I said, even if I chose to go to church it wouldn't be because I believe the bible, I believe all texts are flawed and believing them literal is stupid.

But as mentioned above, there are strong arguments for creationism that have nothing to do with specific religions.

>Then why choose to be Christian or identify with any religion?

If I can believe in a god then I'd purposely choose Christianity as my culture is based on it, in terms of the belief part I could easily choose any other religion but why? Why choose another instead of the one that my ancestors believed and which the culture I grew up within in based upon?

I don't need to believe in all the stories as literal as long as the core belief is there.

The important part is that god created the heaven and earth. Reality is statistical and probabilistic.
There are multiple future possible outcomes.
Intent modifies future probability. So prayer is valid and as as been shown in studies works.
Beyond that it is an effective in-group organizational structure for fighting other out -groups. A faithful people we defeat a faithless one. So if you're white become a racist christian.

>However, I was always disappointed that the debates were always too specific to certain religions.
Fuck me drunk, cunt. He debated Xns, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Mormons, JWs... are you crying because he didn't take on a Bai Hai? Time to face the facts. You are a simpleton. Try and grow a set of gonads. "You'll be better off!"

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF WHY IS EVERYONE SO FUCKING STUPID??????

THE FUCKING STORIES ARE PARABLES THAT ARE MEANT TO TEACH PEOPLE LESSONS ON HOW TO LIVE LIFE!

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

joining a religion is sort of like accepting a required
stupidity. unless you yourself have something that
validates this stupidity, don't attend church.

by stupidity i don't mean theists are stupid,
i mean that the real goal of their belief is uniting
a group of people. and you cannot unify a group
of people if there's too much individualism.

with the arise of individualism, free thought and
"your own rights" (which actually would not exist
were you not a part of your group, your country,
and the "acceptance of giving up your individuality"
in a country - is obviously the countries laws) these
religions have weakened in power. -
here comes food for thought, if religion does not
control you, what else does? certainly at all times,
if you are living in a safe environment and are
doing work for it, you are under a sort of group,
this group holds something you need - either it be
the destruction of a common enemy or the more
common which is just providing safety and a
living place, a place for raising a further family.

if religion is taken away, you are now in the hands
of companies and so on. this is also why it is
beneficial for globalist to destroy religion.

in that - if you become religious - what value does
this group have to you? how does it help you?
what makes it worth your participation and your
time? with that, i've stated my reasoning and
argument for religion and what it is at core, how it
is not so different from other, any, groups.

My answer: If it makes you feel better do it. AS people come of age and you realize you will die someday, it is there to support you.
PS CHURCH IS A GREAT PLACE TO MEET WOMEN!!!

I never understood the intellectual approach of the unchurched since this is the only life I've ever known, but I don't see how choosing a faith you don't believe in for purely material reasons is going to work. We're not in the Body for a simple set of rules, but fulfilment and life. If you ever do accept the gift of faith that your ancestors had, the Kerygma is one baptism / the forgiveness of sins through Jesus, son of the Father; Who dwell within us (this is the holy Spirit) and when all is subject to Him, the resurrection of all life from the dead.

>I am possibly interested in attending church, I can't make myself believe the stories in the bible as fact (some christfags get retarded with this).

The bible should not be taken literally. You're not supposed to believe that the tree of knowledge was real. The chapters are written by human witnesses and prophets, so they reflect their own biases and limits. Things that would have killed the whole tribe (sex before marriage, homosexuality) now are less dangerous.

You go to Mass to perform the Holy Communion. But you also get to hear arguments and point of views of the local priest. It's an interesting experience.

>THE FUCKING STORIES ARE PARABLES
"The secret of the kingdom of god has been given to you, but to those outside, everything is in parables."
Jesus didn't want the masses to understand his stories. But wait, what if the people telling the story of Jesus put those words in his mouth? When Jesus told the story of The Good Samaritan, no one asked, "Wait J-banger, was that a REAL story or did you just make that up?"
Of course they didn't.
Why?
Because the story of Jesus is a parable.

Science doesn't tell you what to do. Just tells you how shit works. Without Christianity you're going to go around killing everyone with science.

The universe shouldn't exist. Subatomic particles, even this 3D environment (space itself) shouldn't exist, nothing should exist only a formless void with nobody around to miss it. Yet here we are made in his image.

Gaytheists and Fagnostics BTFO

It's their version of intelligence shaming with the implication that they are somehow smarter without even realizing the holes in their creation story.

Maybe he didn't perform miracles and was leading the resistance against the Romans. But it's unlikely that he was made up.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

> The Roman historian Tacitus, in his Annals (written ca. AD 116) referred both to 'Christus' and his execution by Pontius Pilate. The very negative tone of Tacitus' comments on Christians make the passage extremely unlikely to have been forged by a Christian scribe.

Jesus fucking HBANGER
THANKS for your referral to Wikipedia.
kys

The best is a mix of individualism and collectivism.
In other words fascism. Christianity works good with fascism. White christian fascism. The USA is
Was founded as a white supremacist fascist national socialist nation, and it it's the greatest nation ever.

Italy
The home of race mixing.
....Found the homo

What are the best arguments for theism?

The degerancy of modern western society with no god.

True. If there is no consciousness to resolve uncertainty than everything remains in an indeterminate state.

stay the fuck out of the assembly if you're just going to be some theist faggot

>Catholic
>Christian
pick one

I believe in Christ like I believe in the sun. Not because I can see it, but because by it, I can see everything.

Follow your own path. No one can convince you of anything but yourself. Question every thing and investigate for yourself. You have the Internet at your hands but instead you turn to a place where 98% of the people have no idea what they are talking about.

Try to borrow a book that doesn't exist. If there is nothing which has eternal existence, yet existence has to be borrowed, how could anything exist? All life is dependent, yet dependent on nothing? That can't be. And if that can't be, then there must be something which exists independently, without a dependency on anything else.

The OT doesn't condone child sacrifice though, only animal and material sacrifice.

Your arguments are so persuasive.


> HOWEVER I am open to theist arguments for GOD, should I see some reasonable arguments for theism I would be happy to attend church to accept and preserve my Anglo/western culture.

We don't know. No one knows. Science tells you how, not why. Scientific theories describe models, not reality. We are chained by our senses and cognitive abilities. If there's a God, we could not even comprehend it. No way to explain.

Semitic religions require you to take a 'leap of faith'. But you don't necessarily need to do that. Being agnostic is the most intellectually honest position.

No, sacrifices were of sheep (only the best of your herd) and other material things. Since the crucifixion of Christ (the lamb), no further sacrifices are needed.

If you live your life without making sacrifices and denying yourself things, you'll get nowhere.

The catholics were strong against communism for
a very long time. Until Vatican 2. Catholicism goes good with fascism too.

The cosmological argument

m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TVaeZAtP70U5Co5WOirhinQ&v=s2ULF5WixMM

Also check out the teleological argument, ontological argument and quantum god playlist from this guy.

Read the C. S. Lewis book Mere Christianity, excellent for how we can come to reason that God exists.

Believe the stories, user.

youtube.com/watch?v=VnjzJdDlaqo

Just a reminder that protestantism is anti-christian. It is better to be agnostic/athiest than to be a protestant, for those who reject the body of christ with full knowledge have less grace than those who unknowingly reject him

...

yes, but individualism is superficial and completely
based on what are the laws of your community

...

>Constantinople
Remember the latin massacre