Is there a way to not even win a discussion with leftists but at least explain something to them?

Is there a way to not even win a discussion with leftists but at least explain something to them?
I have two friends - both intelligent, not antifa scum or SJWs, but they are socialists, want to take refugees etc. I was talking with them about politics last night and these are some of their statements:

ME: look, we all have rich (for Poland) families, socialism would only worsened our standard of life
>THEY: (laughter), so what lol

European Army is something bad and dangerous because they could invade us if we don't listen do UE and basicaly Germany would take our independence
>(laughter) its good, Germany has highest culture (they ment Bethoveen and Goethe), we would benefit from that. I dont mind if we live in Germany or Poland, whats the difference, someone always rules you.

Socialism will take your personal freedom.
>Freedom doesnt exist anyway, you can't be free

It's degrading for a human being if he can't decide for himself and you take away his personal responsibility
>It's bad for a person but good for a collective, so its good. If people had more freedom, there would be more deaths etc. and society would lose from that.

Government giving tax-money for theaters is stealing. (it was said in a context of a theatre play in which Christianity was insulted - it caused a massive outrage in Poland)
>The need of experiencing art and beauty is basic human need. If you call it stealing, paying for police is stealing too.

If you take refugees, you have to compromise your way of life, because those people are raised in completely different culture.
>Culture changes, define european culture please - it always changes.

I don't want to take refugees because I'm xenobhobic and I don't like their culture and way of life.
>Society can't have any impact on immigration politics because their opinions are manipulated anyways, so they doesn't matter. (Also one of them compared not letting them in because I don't like them, to deporting polish people I don't like)

They are not an idiots, SJWs, antifa etc. They are well educated and sane. The thing is - they have marxist value system. I even told them that and they said Marx was cool, he was first sociologist etc. They don't value personal freedom, they don't care about country, they even think that blacks are equal to whites and all the thing that prove otherwise are nurture, not nature. They are well educated and it was very hard to defend my beliefs based on my values - basically freedom - when they talked about sociological stuff, which was very legit in an intellectual way, but also its based on a belief that people can't decide about themselves. For example "culture changes, it was christian, now it will be different". I mean, they are right. What differs us is that they don't give a fuck about it and I do.Is there any way to convince people with marxist beliefs that personal freedom is an important value? Is there a cure for marxism? They basically deconstruct the meaning of everything and value pleasure and safety the most. I've seen it many times. That kind of thing applies to most intelligent young people. They have no respect for individuals, no values, don't want responsibility etc. They can be very well educated and smart, but still - their values are degenerate.

I don't have any answers, but I'll bump you. Sorry, it's the best I can do right now.

You can't convince collectivists of personal freedom, not communists and not facists

I doubt that anyone here is a true anarchist who support real personal freedom (ability to rape,kill,steal ect)

bump

They are collectivist idiots
Yes, they are

>It's bad for a person but good for a collective, so its good. If people had more freedom, there would be more deaths etc. and society would lose from that.
So they believe that all the people are naturally evil and you need police state to take care of security, because without supervision people will drift towards evil, then they even laugh at how opinion of majority isn't the best, because majority should be guided by some fucking enlightened fuckers, cause they know better than manipulated sheeple
Fuck those guys, this is cancer

bump

>then they even laugh at how opinion of majority isn't the best, because majority should be guided by some fucking enlightened fuckers, cause they know better than manipulated sheeple
That's how globalists think.

>true anarchism
>ability to rape, kill, steal

Nigga you retarded ?

Marxism values society as a whole more than individuals. To be Marxist means to disregarded your own needs to the needs of the society. Your friends might go extreme, you don't have to disregard your culture, tradition and national values. I myself am a Marxist and a patriot at the same time, and I wouldn't like my culture to change. I acknowledge it and I am proud of it, but I do believe in society as an abstraction that exist and that is more important than me.

To be Marxist is to put the needs of a society in front of your own

>Germany would take our independence

Are you really still paranoid we could invade you? Holy shit get the fuck over it already. Poles and Anglos on here seem to be stuck in the year 1938.

what is Eureopean Union?
what is european army?
who is Altiero Spinelli?

...

You cant directly talk them over, they need to life through or experience what they preach, then they know the truth.

For now, dont alienate yourself with bombing them with redpills, just hide your powerlevel and sometimes bait them in a obvious mistake their making

>America isolates itself
>Germany strongest economy in Europe
>Brits red with envy
>Poles act like cheeky cunts

Ok you convinced me it actually is 1938, I hope you are ready for round 3. Thanks though for keeping Silesia and Prussia nice and clean but we are going to need that back now. Achmed and Murat need a place to crash you know.

There's no hope at that point.

No one comes back from the pit of leftism unless it's on their own. To a certain extent, it's psychology and human nature. We probably seem just as intractable to them. On the other, they'll be getting their news and spending their time within the left win echo chamber which will lie to them and help them continue to justify/reinforce their idiotic belief system.

It's better to spend your time on people with no political beliefs or who only have lightly held views. I've found they're much easier to convince and are generally willing to accept facts from someone they know and trust. Those with developed left wing beliefs aren't worth it, they're like someone who has been body snatched.

you're probably right
when someone resigns from his freedom and responsibility there is no intellectual way to convince them otherwise

sjws are just idiots pushing for a communist state without realizing it.

well some of them realize it but theyre the kinds of people who have been pampered by the system in america anyway so itll be interesting watching them flounder and die off if it happens.

Your friends argue exactly like Jews. Anyone got that passage from Mein Kampf?

But it's common sense. If you see all these terrorist bombings the smart thing to do is to not take in any "refugees" especially because they are not bordering any middle eastern countries and aren't obligated to take them in.

All the alternatives where you attempt to justify terrorism by stating that you save the lives of refugees involve throwing away your own people and irreparably letting in racially different, low IQ barbarians to multiple into your country and forever rot it from the inside out.

Why is this only common sense to us? Even most lefties should understand why they don't want to live in a total shithole. I cannot come to any other philosophical conclusion than to say to hell with the migrants. You like your culture, you dislike Islam for a number of reasons, you hate suicide bombers and pedophile rapists, and you don't want your tax money paying for Abdul and Aisha to shit out 8 kids.

The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day.
Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.

>Even most lefties should understand why they don't want to live in a total shithole. I cannot come to any other philosophical conclusion than to say to hell with the migrants. You like your culture, you dislike Islam for a number of reasons, you hate suicide bombers and pedophile rapists, and you don't want your tax money paying for Abdul and Aisha to shit out 8 kids.

i think at the end of the day it really just comes to SJWs hating "fucking white males" and they will destroy them at any cost. theyre terrorists and communists and arent above torturing their fellow citizens if theyre given the power to do so. fucking shoot these people.