Are MGTOW just bitter incels/virgins or do they have some valid points?

Are MGTOW just bitter incels/virgins or do they have some valid points?

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they are not wrong on many of the points they make, yet their solution to these problems is childish and ineffective

MGTOW is ironic because it inadvertently makes you more attractive, by making yourself unavailable it entices the ladies, as long as you don't have any glaring flaws (not autistic, not ugly, can hold a semi normal convo).

they can be bitter incels and virgins AND have a valid point

Mostly bitter incels/virgins.

The reason nobody takes their "movement" seriously is because women never wanted them in the first place. If MGTOW were rich, attractive Chads it would be another story.

Implying this "Whoa is me, I'm too rich" bitch is a MGTOW? Oh, and he's an atheist too? Naturally. All good svenskar are.

They're approaching a real problem from the complete wrong angle. Also often fail to realize that being dicks to anyone who disagrees isn't gonna make us take their side.

MGTOW?
Maximum gross takeoff weight? Huh?

This. It's usually the ones who adopt the MGTOW label who are the bitter virgins while those who simply do their own thing without giving a shit about wearing a special label or groveling before women are ok.

Virgins who blame women for their problmes

Only good thing is worktout but you don't need mgtow to know that.

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It's been 8 minutes, try to calm down there, fellow burger.

>The reason nobody takes their "movement" seriously is because women never wanted them in the first place

This is exactly why I don't identify as MGTOW or want to be part of any other movements even though I'm an incel. Yeah, I know women don't want me because I'm too ugly and autistic, but I don't want to stamp that on my fucking forehead for everyone to see.

Sup, newfag?

Found the pilot

The latter being a bachelor has always been a thing and probably always will be.
If you spend all day telling people you don't care and need a movement to prove it, it shows you clearly care.

MGTOW are quitters. Yes modern western women are terrible but you should fight to fix them. At the very least get a south east Asian bride, they piss off feminists.

How about you move to a country where it doesn't matter if you're a 9/10 guy, girls still won't fuck you. Because that PC-shithole has brainwashing them into only wanting sandnigger dick.
Then once they've screwed their youth away with nigger cock and are stuck with a retard baby, THEN you are just what they need for "stability" in their life ("gimme monies plox").

That is why MGTOW has a point. Because in todays age young girls are raised to be bitches and sluts, until it comes to being tolerant to other cultures/races. You won't find a more submissive whore.

It's only stupid as long as we actually need women to reproduce. As soon as we invent artificial wombs, women will have become obsolete. So for now we need to surrender to the powers of the vaginal jew.

is Sup Forums just a culmination of things people are too scared to say in public?

Of course. Anonymity is the only reason that makes chans thrive.

I am sort of open about my anti femenism, all my friends know (and agree) as do select co-workers. I am not fully open however because my views will be me fired.

They're certainly not something I want to be. Why would I want to be a person who whines on the internet all day? Sounds like a shit way to live.

With respect to the way laws are stacked in favor of women in custody, etc, they have SOME reasons for caution. The solution however, is sometimes worse than the disease.

They're wrong. They're so lonely and angry that it is harming their psychological health. If you look at human history, it's obviously absurd to adopt a sad philosophy.

>not autistic, not ugly, can hold a semi normal convo
DAMMIT

>I love you artificial womb. *MWAH*
Sad!

"no taxation without representation". Why are men expected to take shit without any payoff?

Women make the rules for dating, how they want men to be, what to wear, what beliefs and ideas to have, because they're counting on guys need to get laid.
Our only way to win is not to play the game.

We never claimed to be anything but incels.

...

>without any payoff?
Without ANY payoff? You still get paid. But yeah overall only men pay taxes (women are overall net consumers of public money) and the system is skewed against men. But you still get things out of society, c'mon.
>Our only way to win is not to play the game.
It doesn't make any difference though.
There isn't much of a limit to how much women can share the more desirable guys. They're getting very used to it now.

Just bitter virgins xD

vNon-MGTOW-s are just non-virgins who blame women for their problems

stop whining

Their main argument is that you should avoid marriage because all women are golddiggers and whores.

But that's not true. There are many of them, but still minority. Just go and look for a woman and you will find a good one.

No the man argument is, if you can't get a girlfriend why bother trying just go your own way.

MGTOW only has a point in countries where the conditioning is so thorough that things like loyalty, family values etc no longer matter to most people and slutting around is ''better'' in their eyes (i.e USA, Germany, Sweden etc) If you live in a country where people actually still give a fuck about things like morals or family values you have zero excuses.

Actually you do have excuses but you wouldn't know that because you spend all day inside.

>Without ANY payoff? You still get paid. But yeah ...*continues to validate my point*
>It doesn't make any difference though
Have you ever told an overconfident girl who is only flirting for attention to fuck off? Trust me, it's a way more fulfilling feeling than being cheated on.

She is never going to love you anyway, so why bother? All women want is either a trophy husband to put in their little purse or shit paid for them. Why do you think they say "she never marries the hot one"? Because she already had "the hot one", now she's tired of dating and wants someone to pay for her.

>assmad feminist

lol

So why is it going your own way instead of sent your own way? I didn't choose this fate, m8

>There are many of them, but still minority.
I think the MGTOW types tend to attract them a lot. Because they're dicks. They talk a lot about what they provide, how "correctly" they act and how women *should* behave with them. But they don't talk a lot about love.
tbf a lot of women are cunts too. Or crazy. I don't want to shift all of the blame on men because that's BS. Women are the worst nowadays.
But if you've got problems making emotional connections yourself and you're not actually caring, etc, then you're gonna have troubles. It's not all that's required, but it's pretty much necessary.
If you have trouble with women, you don't have to be a MGTOW fag. Just admit your flaws and work on them. Ignore the cunts. If that's the only ones you can attract, then ignore them or just fuck them. Never take them seriously. Never trust them. Just accept that the good ones are a minority and you won't hate all women.

This. Men decrease their own value in the scarcity principal. The only way to turn that around is by having some backbone.

>If you live in a country where most people place value on traditional values you don't have an excuse
''actually you have an excuse but you don't know because you spend all day inside''

That made no sense whatsoever.

They definitely have a point. The gender power dynamic is absolutely fucked in the west.

you chose to continue trying to get a girlfriend

It made sense and you know it did

They're bitter incels/virgins with valid points.

Of course they have valid points but they are like women in the sense that they themselves do not believe they are any part of the problem. I mean, just look at that fedora tipping, overweight piece of shit. There is nothing that will dry panties faster than that. You can't be bottom of the barrel and expect 10/10 virgin pussy. Clueless imbeciles.

How does me saying that if you live in a country where most people are traditional you have no excuse mean I have an excuse and spend all day inside? That literally has nothing to do with what I just said.

>david duke actually posts here

top kek reality is stranger than fiction

>Have you ever told an overconfident girl who is only flirting for attention to fuck off?
Nah my autism makes them stop pretty fast.
>Trust me, it's a way more fulfilling feeling than being cheated on.
If you say so. Just because they're flirting for attention doesn't mean they're bad people.
>She is never going to love you anyway, so why bother?
Women can love.
>All women want is either a trophy husband to put in their little purse or shit paid for them. Why do you think they say "she never marries the hot one"? Because she already had "the hot one", now she's tired of dating and wants someone to pay for her.
That's a lot of them for sure.
A lot of them want love though. But they're not immune to social expectations. They want to be proud of their man too.
Women are more wanted than men. You gotta win them over. They get to be picky. It's always been that way (even though it's gotten worse these last dcades). It's not like they need you for sex. You gotta make their life better. It doesn't have to be money but most will want you to have your shit order and have things going on, etc. The bitterness and hatred of many MGTOWs borders on mental illness. They'd be terrible to live with for that alone.
But yeah, things are worse than normies will admit. They're afraid of complaining. But the MGTOWs are the other extreme.

They've got some valid points about the treatment of men by society that should get more mainstream attention.

The problem is that they use those points as excuses to retreat into their basements and jack off instead of pursuing and experiencing female company.

They have some good points, but I advocate young men working in the cracks of society. Realize how the world over is, get over it, live for your benefit while minimizing risk and exposure to yourself. That does not mean don't get married and don't have kids but young men shouldn't have to expose themselves to danger just because lonely femanon sluts and effeminate traditionalist dudebros on Sup Forums tell them to do so. And another thing, Sup Forums needs to stop using the "MGTOW" strawman as a blanket argument against any user that doesn't immediately submit to what femanons and traditionalists scream at him to do.

Are you a homosexual?

MGTOW has identified the problem, but the real solution if for men to become men. The "I'll only marry a virgin" meme is fairly entertaining, tho.

Mixture of both tbqh.

It makes sense that these are the kinds of men that go MGTOW, simply because if you can't effortlessly attract the opposite sex, the lengths you have to otherwise go to are not worth the effort.

>Women can love

Women love opportunistically, men love idealistically. That's why women fall out of love when their men lose jobs but when a woman loses her job, her man works extra hard to make her feel valued.

hey dumb OP - they don't have points, nor do they make points. They are just throwing a title on a phenomenon that plagues males in order for a few of the leaders to get paid. That's all there is to it

I think some people truly don't care very much about women and family, but somehow the "if you don't reproduce, you loose at life" thing got to them kek. So they're interested in artificial wombs. But fuck that's ridiculous. That's a broken family from the start. You're even worse than single mothers. Most of them probably thought the father might stick around at least. Even though they chose stupidly.

i was exposing your ignorance. You do have an excuse i used to live in a country with those values and i have a valid excuse

MGTOW is blue pill

NO HYMEN NO DIAMOND is red pill

Oh, they're points are usually all valid. All day long. Yep.

And they're kind of sad and broken too. They're tired of eating delicious food that gives them horrid diarrhea in the end every time. They miss the food, but not the diarrhea.

>Just because they're flirting for attention doesn't mean they're bad people.
Flirting for attention the way i see it is a womans way of saying "I could get in your pants any time i want" and you flirting is her confirmation that she is correct. That kind of flirting is nothing more than abusing power they have over men, so why give in to it?
>They get to be picky. It's always been that way
"I want a tall, rich, well-spoken but cool, extrovert, shuts up whenever i have something to say, smart (but not smarter than me), successful guy. Oh, and i also only date arabs and black guys. White guys are so 2010 ew."

This is 90% of all females where i come from. I don't like the world where the loudest jerk in line gets the girl because "i think i can change him".

You generalize too much. Lots of women stick to their man through worse things.
For normies, how they behave depends a lot on their close social circle. If you have common friends and you're all good people and honest with each others, most people don't just abandon those close to them like this without a damn good reason. Because it would make everyone disappointed.
But yeah, women are hardwired to want strong protective men. Do not be weak, it's putting a lot of pressure on women when you are.
Look at a woman's friends. If most of them are cunts you know what to expect.
It's true though, men are the romantic gender. Young Gaddafi had a bit about it.

They are just playing the long game.

>Young Gaddafi had a bit about it

What was that now? I've been a fan of his for years.

Many of them have had their lives ruined by divorce.

Nice trips. Yeah, there's also the fact that young men don't want to date sluts, and even though Sup Forums and feminists may have a huge problem with that, it's never going to change.

The bad ones are easy to see. I can't understand how guys end up with bitches, you can see who they really are by looking at their faces. What she says and does just confirms it.

I know exactly what you mean, you can tell who the sluts and whores and bitches are just by looking at them. It's true. Their body language, facial expressions, how they treat others, even just the energy they give off. The problem is that there are so many of them out there.

>Flirting for attention the way i see it is a womans way of saying "I could get in your pants any time i want" and you flirting is her confirmation that she is correct. That kind of flirting is nothing more than abusing power they have over men, so why give in to it?
Yeah I see what you mean. But women have that power no matter what. It doesn't bother me.
How is this abusing power? Flirting is playful social interaction. And it's an occasion to practice. She only has the power over you that you give her.
It's upsetting that it's just for attention and that it's a manipulation since she's not actually interested in you and wants to see how you'll react and how much power she has over you, but I don't get why it would anger you so much. Fuck socializing is full of shit like that. I don't like it but it doesn't make me mad.
>"I want a tall, rich, well-spoken but cool, extrovert, shuts up whenever i have something to say, smart (but not smarter than me), successful guy. Oh, and i also only date arabs and black guys. White guys are so 2010 ew."
Don't liste to women for what they want. They don't know. They definitively don't want you to shut up and let them walk over you.
And that whole white women don't want white men thing is total Sup Forums agitprop. It's very rare. But our governments absolutely are using mass immigration to make up for the low birth rates and are trying to encourage race mixing. You're still advantaged to be white though.
>This is 90% of all females where i come from.
You're deluding yourself.
>I don't like the world where the loudest jerk in line gets the girl because "i think i can change him".
He's interesting. And not bitter and whiny.
Not all girls want that though.

It's a futile movement, ultimately. Once your balls drop you're in the pussy game until impotence. Even if you're sitting on the sidelines you're still watching the game and waiting to get in. You might be a virgin NEET at twenty-two and married at twenty-nine, then divorced at thirty-four, "going your own way," until you meet Sandy at thirty-six then start the whole process over. Your judgment is clouded due to your ball sack. It's what Kek wills; otherwise no one would voluntarily undergo the horrors. The pleasure of sex is the sugar coating nature incentivizes with in order to reproduce. You must make the next generation of frutrated NEETs, user. The inter-generational existential-angst must continue. Kek wills it.

There are so many of them out there because this is exactly the type mainstream culture promotes, in their head they are perfect strong and independent. Which is why we need men who say "if you're not going to treat me fair, i'm getting the fuck out".

>I can't understand how guys end up with bitches
Pussy. Because pussy.
They "settled" (maybe just because she was hot, maybe just because of desperation) but they don't want to admit it so they'll pretend that all women are bad instead.

MGTOW offers some great advice in how not to be fucked over.

look up anon5´s stuff on the archive.
archive.4plebs.org/_/search/subject/knowledge bomb/username/anonymous5/tripcode/!!9O2tecpDHQ6/

Good for people that would wind up as beta providers for miserable harpies
Either go hymen or GYOW

Yes.

Lots of bitter men.

lots of valid points.

MGTOW is not all bitter men. There are men we find that society is turning completely against a tradition they want to behold. Maybe you aren't bad with women, but have problems with the 50 shades of cock they took up their ass in college. Maybe you are afraid of your daughters becoming sluts. Society is completely against traditional roles and supporting sluthood.

Most marriages fail. Most are unpleasant.

I think alot of MGTOW are blackpilled. But the situation seems to be rather binary. You either become an alpha at your best worthy of a good woman that follows your lead and is loyal - Or you are average/below average and roll the dice with a former slut or normie girl. Alot of MGTOW seem to accept not becoming the alpha hero. Ergo they decide not rolling the dice.

it's a tough battle. We all need to train and become our best selves.

Dated a girl with boobs that big. Shits overrated. Current girl is 70.5 inches, B cup. Worlds better.

>wants to fix Western women
>telegraphing your beliefs to women just so one can later temporarily emulate what you like in a woman
You're not going to make it.

>How is this abusing power? Flirting is playful social interaction. And it's an occasion to practice. She only has the power over you that you give her.
It doesn't bother me since i don't give in to it, and i'm fairly good looking so i can always abuse that back. But since girls know guys will pay for them they have the upper hand, which is why i don't give the "i flirted with you now buy me a drink or i will tell everyone you're a jerk"-type shit. When it comes to money an power it's not playful anymore, why do you think girls don't bring cash to clubs?
>And that whole white women don't want white men thing is total Sup Forums agitprop.
Your girlfriend would ditch you for a BBC any day and you know it. Good looking young girls only want boys who give them protection, status and money, which is why they usually go for the drug dealer.
>He's interesting. And not bitter and whiny.
Yeah because he's gonna cheat on you if you don't suck his dick.

the only guys who piss and moan about MGTOWs are 30 something year olds who found their wife before social media and tinder were a thing

if i last dated when clinton was president, i also would wonder to myself "wtf are all these young guys complaining about? just look for a decent woman and marry her, it's not hard".

sadly the year is no only 1998.

You're alright, Sven. I've been saying those exact same things for years, and I'm happy to see that söta bror knows what's up.

You are welcome across the border once the race war starts. Bring your membership card.

Sheesh, a bit paranoid user. Most women wouldn't do that except for a Chad. And it's not that hard to see anyway if your autism isn't too strong.
But it's funny how women will act all nice and change their beliefs to get a Chad to like them.
But if men do that they're "nice guys" and absolute creeps.
Both are creeps really.
It's OK for women to change their opinions, but if they can't actually believe in anything and their mind is always very malleable like that, that's a bad sign.
And that's a problem with a lot of women. That's why they tend to be more all "the same" than men. There's less variety in women. They're more influenced by the media and social expectations. That's why the same small pool of men is in such high demand too. Most of them want the same thing.

I heard norwegian women still have some nordic blood in them, is that true Olaf?

My girlfriend is half Finnish and half Norwegian, and I'm myself is 1/8 Icelandic, 1/4 Danish and mostly Norwegian (from what I can tell - I can only trace my origins back to the 1800s where my father's side emigrated from Sweden (lol)).

To answer your question bluntly - there are few left, but honestly it's not that much better here than in Sweden.

MGTOW is a bunch of people who have accepted the premises of the enemy and decided to simply outpace them in degeneracy. It's a petty and unproductive attitude. We do not need more men becoming worthless fedoras, we need White Sharia.

this is something that troubles me a lot. i know what i want but you can never tip your hand like that when vetting a woman you're dating or want to date. you can never say you want a family or want kids or dislike hookup culture etc etc,, because after you say that, magically 99% of women will coincidentally have your same value system and they'll also forget to mention to you all those times they had sex in bathroom stalls at clubs and tinder hookups. it makes separating the wheat from the chaff impossible.

When women insult something by associating it with male virginity, you've made a point they don't like but cannot refute. But regardless of your ideology, you'd have to be a damned fool to get married as a guy today

i see it as more of a Randyan withdrawal from a system rigged against them. they are derided by those who pride themselves on their conformity to female standards

All Scandinavians have nordic blood. Idk what the fuck you have been reading to tell you otherwise. Its not 100%, but nor is a single people on this earth. The majority of all scandinavians are more Nordic than anything else though. Except some Fins maybe.

Both

both

I agree that it's a cultural issue, but men are expected to validate sluts and whores and that's a huge issue. Saying "no" to sluts doesn't seem to go over well in western society.

I... I agree with the leaf...

Never thought I'd say this but the leaf is right.

>and i'm fairly good looking so i can always abuse that back
For fuck's sake, you have zero excuse for being such a little faggot then.
If you haven't gotten along with any woman yet and you don't like any of them you're either not trying or you're a garbage human being. Or you have autism, which is fine but at least recognize that.
I'm mildly autistic, schizoid, poor (I'm self-"""employed"""), below average looking and I don't think of women as negatively as you do. It's girls who often provided things for me to help me out kek (and guess what they were in my league more or less, maybe that's where the good ones are). I really don't see how you can think that all women are this terrible without being a near shut in. I know it's not true.

Technology is changing the game user, no frog god can stop what's coming

A person of true nordic blood does not get humiliated by becoming a sharia-whore, who takes dick all day to prove to their friends that they are not racist. Or the classic; fuck an arab to provoke your parents, which usually doesn't happen because this is sweden and people here are cucks.
They would rather have their daughter fuck a drug dealer than suspecting them of being "racist"

burger with VPN.