What does Sup Forums think of a Flat Tax?

Discuss

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youtube.com/watch?v=-asltUUvcGU
blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/lower-levels-of-inequality-are-linked-with-greater-innovation-in-economies/
oecd.org/newsroom/inequality-hurts-economic-growth.htm
splitwise.com/taxes/#/brackets/0|196|353|432|479|543/10.1|14.9|25.0|28.1|33.0|35.1/params/1|1|1|0|1|15/name/Current tax code (2012)
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Taxation is enforced charity participation

Income tax is ridiculous.
Property tax makes sense, since the government courts and military protect your property for you.
But income tax just plain needs to end.

Flat tax is a tax cut for the rich
Its not going to end, you're ridiculous

Shouldn't the rich pay more taxes in general since they own more property and wealth, which means they utilize more of the governmental protection?

Why not a metered flat tax?

Below poverty 5% on purchases
Poor 8%
Lower Middle Class 10%
Upper Middle Class 15%
Wealthy 20%
Super Wealthy 22%

I'm just throwing numbers out here. I don't see how this has to hurt the middle class at all.

just plain don't give a fuck about policy.

lower my taxes and don't bother with the details.

Not an argument

and Not an argument.

first posts best posts

@127815718
shitty leaf post not even worth a (you)

>oh shit we have debt crisis because egalitarianism isn't cheap!
>quick take even more money from people, maybe they won't notice if it's a flat tax
Income tax is better, at least the people are used to paying it and you can moderate how much you take from each bracket. 10% increments from 20% to 70% is sufficient for some very complex wealth redistribution, that is what this is...

Or, you could try capital gains tax? Say half of what you received in interest, share appreciation, housing appreciation (or depreciation for claims;) ) goes to the government if you actually received cash at the end of these transactions, so mostly just interest. This almost exclusively taxes the investor class, the people not supplying the jobs when we give them tax breaks.

Because it hurts investment, you then have to incentivise business somehow, which is fine because if you strictly promote small business then on average mostly large businesses would be effected. Small business is good for employment and they provide more opportunities for investment.

That's regular income tax with retarded brackets.

Pick values around the 50% margin. Anything over that will drag those people down because more than half of what they earn is going to the government. The idea here is then to either have lower brackets not pay or have enough welfare programs designed at increasing a poorer bracket's wealth like food stamps, housing and free healthcare.

The thing is their numbers never add up and they end up in debt, especially when they try to fake it through the debt crisis by importing entire electorates of voters who simply don't care about money.

I don't like it because whatever rate they start it at is just the beggining. They can always raise the rate. If it starts at 15% who is to say a couple of years later it goes to 20% and so on.
I see the real problem is Welfare, nobody gets off it. They get rewarded for bad behavior! Wages as in proportion to productivaty declines at a proportional rate. If you don't do something about Welfare Flat tax could be 50% or more.
The last part is if sales tax what do you do about buying property ( house ), will bank back 20% over value loan then be on hook for if forclosure ?

oh boy the dumb bootlicker capitalists have arrived.
>inb4 not an argument x-^DD

you autists have no concept of what a government provides to the people.

The rich should be taxed higher than the poor, debate me fags

>1 post by this ID
REEEEEEEEEEEEE

sage

Tax for Welfare is Theft!
Charity for welfare is caring .

I think the idea comes from a desire for simplicity and at first seems like an inarguably rational solution to an old problem, but in reality it is a gross oversimplification of a complex covfefe

You think rich peoples taxes will go up with a flat tax? You think income tax is just going to go away magically?

72 % of the budget is spent on welfare!
Another 13% are spent on social programs.
That leaves 16% for everything else!
We borrow more than we spend on everything else!
Pic: Everything else

>to
Dumb nigger, the Romans bought off literally EVERYONE. The Germans, the Slavs, the Persians, the Muslims, etc. This was because their population was too chicken shit to actually join the legions by late antiquity, so they had to fill their ranks up to the brim with conscripted barbarians. Of course, barbarians don't make for too loyal of a fighting force, so it's better to pay off your enemy than to rely on the army. But by that point, Rome was fucked anyway.

Why not tax poor people more, since they need more government, rich people dont use the governments assets that much, so they're less of a burden on the system

Not a nigger / Thats the point buying off nigger!
Did you read about welfare?
I posted three more to prove my point.
I don't think a flat tax is a good idea , why niggers!

I was just responding to your image, I didn't read your post.

Everyone pays 10%
If you make 10 you pay 1 lets say this is most people
If you make 100 you pay 10 this would be the upper class (doctors, engineers, small entreprenours)
I'm ok wih it
Maybe have little increment
say 12-15% if you make 10000 (the 1%) so that is 1200-1500 still fine (you don't want to overburden them because they can take their money, capital, etc and leave)

Now what I'm not ok is regressive taxes like the VAT. Since the if everyone is taxed 0.5 for a product that costs x:
most people - 5% tax
upper class - 0.5% tax
the 1% - 0.005% tax

Maybe don't tax people if they make under 5, progresive 1-10% from 5-10, flat tax for most and a small progressive tax if you make over 10000.
Kind of like this. in the picture.

Tax rates are beside the point with Rothschild banks issuing loans from nothing and printing away our purchasing power.

Although I respect the prospect of simplifying the tax code, I don't agree with flat tax. At the end of the day you will have people paying 2x,3x,4x,5x, etc. in taxes as someone else and they will be getting the same if not less benefits/services from the government.

1) How about they get a job.
2) or they can stop having babies they can't pay for.
3) No one that works should live in poverty, then stop giving their money to people who don't work.

0 PER CENT 0 PER CENT 0 PER CENT

Please enlighten us as to all of the wonders that you think central governments should provide. If your list is over 5 things you're fucking retarded.

>central governments
not what i said. but even in that case i can name a few. Lets see here
>military protection
>diplomacy
>coordination between sub-states
>some regulations and laws
>international trade
>currency
thats more than 5
oh no im suddenly fucking retarded!

try harder, corporate bootlicker

All this arguing over flat tax or fair tax or whatever just exists to distract you from the fact there should be no income tax.

HAHAHAHA


poor people getting rolled over makes my cock hard

i agree, there SHOULDN'T be an income tax for those who's taxes will be a negligible contribution
otherwise income tax is completely justified, in so far that its the government who creates the right environment to earn that kind of money, and THAT environment can be maintained only through economic contributions from the people.

haha, totally agree, fellow pinochetian capitalist!
lets throw all people off planes am i right? haha

poor person detected

did you mean that for me?
if so, false

bumping the thread because i want to debate some dumb capitalists, whats that? scared of a bit of socialism?

Oversimplified? Probably. Benefit peoples with higher incomes? Certainly. A bad idea? I do not think so. At the end of the day you will always pay what ever percent the flat tax is set to, but if you have more money after taxes, you can invest and spend more. Say we set a 10% flat tax and you make 30 grand at the end of the year, you lose 3 grand as personal income tax, now you decide "shit, I need/want more money after income taxes!" Now you can go get another job or go on some other venture to make more money and next you you end up paying 5 grand in income tax (you got a 2nd job and made 50 grand for the year). At the end you lost 10% again, but you still have more disposable income than before. Under the Progressive income tax if you make significantly more you get bumped into the next tax bracket and then get dicked by the IRS because you made more money this year so they get to take even more and now you are no better off than had you not made more cash in the first place.

TL:DR I believe that the flat tax will allow for more economic mobility for individuals based on the fact the IRS can not take all your cash for earning yourself into the next bracket by 5 bucks on accident.

>highest tax is 22%
>more than half of what they earn is going to the government
Isn't the point of a flat tax to get rid of all the other taxes, so you're only taxed on purchases?

Those who oppose flat taxes are low IQ niggers. People who get damaged the most by it are middle class. Learn your brackets.

I like it, a flat tax possibly with an exemption for people earning less than $X would be ideal imo. Otherwise it makes perfect sense, earn $100,000? Pay $10,000 federal tax. Earn $1,000,000? Pay $100,000 federal tax.

>military protection
my gun does that
>diplomacy
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>coordination between sub-states
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>some regulations and laws
you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
>international trade
you mean like when my country trades tomatoes for my neighboring country's strawberries?
>currency
you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?

Yes you have almost double the income for double or more the work what a great deal.

>I can't imagine these things existing without my big brother government
kill yourself.

So you should be punished for being succesfull?

I don't support a flat tax. I support a two tier income tax.
0-$50,000 : 0%
$50,000+: 20%

Same two tier system for capital gains
0-$50,000: 0%
$50,000+: 20%

>muh rich people should pay more
A progressive income tax works only if there are no loopholes. Most rich people are rich for a reason, they aren´t dumb. People with lots of money can afford to hire others that look for loopholes to avoid taxes, leagaly and illigaly.

If the only tax was a flat income tax there would be no loopholes assuming you wouldn´t get anything back from the government in one way or another.
This means there also would be no corporate tax so creating a non profit to avoid taxes would be pointless.

And from a moral perspective, why should be punish people who produce and subsidise ones that don´t?

What I should have said is that you will have more income left over the more you earn and so you will be motivated to earn more as you will not be placed in a high tax bracket. The only thing that could screw people over in this instance is what already screws us all over, inflation.

Your gun isn't capable of force projection on the scale of 10 carrier strike groups.

Maintaining a strong position in the international system benefits the citizens of a nation.

It's idiotic. The richer you are, the more benefits you get from the society and the more you have to lose if it falls apart.

Inequality is also really bad for society.
youtube.com/watch?v=-asltUUvcGU

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/lower-levels-of-inequality-are-linked-with-greater-innovation-in-economies/

oecd.org/newsroom/inequality-hurts-economic-growth.htm

The thing is, americans are racist and inequality is related to the privatization of segregation. Fair enough, but their lies about it hurt us in homogenous societies.

The main driver of income inequality is progressives taxing the shit out of poor people and forcing them to participate in social insurance ponzi schemes. If the poor were forced to put their social insurance taxes into the stock market they would be magnitudes better off.

If flat tax law passed many accountants and tax lawyers will lose their jobs.

They want tax system to remain complicated.

Ah, was what I was talking about here actually known as a two tier tax? I think 20% is a bit high though, I'd rather reduce your $50,000 to $20,000-30,000 and try and move the 20% as close to 10% as possible.

In the short run yes, we wont be able to defend ourselves from air strikes but in the long run we win since cleetus and tyrone has a gun on his hip.

>implying a carrier isn't destroyed by one decent missile
>particularly any of the nuclear variety

wew lad try not to shout "I'm neither a veteran nor do I know nothing about the actual military" so loudly next time

A flat tax is a tax that's exactly the same for everyone, usually a percentage value. Taxes on purchases are sales tax and ultimately drive up the cost of living significantly harming the poor earnings.

It can't be used in a society that just wants to end the whole "equality" discussion. If living simply can cost a teenagers wage then there's really no discussion and any harmful attempts at equality, which are always attempts because it's not egalitarian.

Regardless, the progressive income tax should be all the egalitarian measures necessary. I've never liked sales tax or tax on purchases, it's only a good idea if you had some naive idea to teach poor people to spend money wisely. Unfortunately you can't, it just makes everything expensive.

It's better than supporting UBI or welfare.

>those carrier groups really helped us defeat shitskins in afghanistan, iraq, vietnam, [insert any country even remotely well armed]

kek

Restrict franchise and citizenship to the superior caste of Aryan warrior poets. Resources are distributed equally among the Spartiates, and all have duty to the common good.

Income inequality always happens in capitalist system.

Because those who are better will get ahead of given chance.

But average income of people in capitalist nation will be higher than low inequality socialist nation.

Wouldn't instituting a flat tax completely eliminate loopholes for the wealthy due to it making the tax system extremely simple? wouldn't it also lesson the stranglehold and corruption of lobbying due to businesses also being unable to use loopholes anymore?

A 6 million dollar LAPV can be rendered worthless by a soda bottle with some fifty cent Kuffar-Aid in it

My idea of tax code.

Tax exemption to first $15000
17% tax on any income above that.

Remove ALL other exemptions or deductions.

And this tax will apply to everyone including Non profit and religious institutions

some people want to tax the (((1%))) out of spite, shame on them

kill yourself shill rat

>my gun does that
okay thats fine, you can go fight whatever nation decides to war you yourself then.
>you mean like when my country trades tomatoes for my neighboring country's strawberries?
kind of
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I trade tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
>you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?
no
nice autism you've got there.

>>I can't imagine these things existing without my big brother government
>implying
sure they CAN potentially exist without a government, but it will not be as efficient.
Also, you call that big brother government? what i said was literally next to minarchism. i hope you are being retarded on purpose
Have fun living in your ancap paradise, though, i wish you well.

when did i say that?
of course you shouldnt be punished for being successful, but if you are successful in the country that has helped you achieve that success, then they deserve a bit of reimbursement to help others also achieve that goal.

Property tax is worse than income tax you faggot. It is literally impossible to own land in America, you are just renting from the government. Property tax makes the entire population slaves.

>that cartoon
Even if we assume that giving tax cuts to the rich doesn't benefit the middle class at all (which isn't true), how does it harm the middle class for the rich to have less of their shit stolen? This is the worst political cartoon I've seen all year, at the very least.

>okay thats fine, you can go fight whatever nation decides to war you yourself then.
You mean like how Afghans beat our military with guns, spare parts, and no military?
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>no
Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
>nice autism you've got there.
Translation: I'm autistic and I often project.

Yeah, they did. The US is in a more powerful position than we ever have been.

Not an argument

A flat tax by definition has to be a tax that takes an equal % from everyone. So, yeah what we both want is a simpler progressive tax with just two brackets.
>try and move the 20% as close to 10% as possible.
I think that's doable with vice taxes, I do think productivity should be taxed as little as possible, but stuff like alcohol, beer, soda should all be significantly taxed.

Anybody? Honest question.

>of course you shouldnt be punished for being successful, but if you are successful in the country that has helped you achieve that success, then they deserve a bit of reimbursement to help others also achieve that goal.

Nope. Do you give share of your income to teachers because they taught you everything?

No. Because you have already paid for his service so he can't demand more money.

For example if I sell microphone to Katy Perry and she uses it in concert to earn money do I have claim on her concert earning?

No.

>Yeah, they did. The US is in a more powerful position than we ever have been.
Except we lost those wars. Better luck next argument.
>Not an argument
Except that demonstrating the obvious weakness of a massively expensive defense line item is an argument.

I made this a long time ago, the 40% rate is just to balance the budget. I'd prefer it be much lower.

splitwise.com/taxes/#/brackets/0|196|353|432|479|543/10.1|14.9|25.0|28.1|33.0|35.1/params/1|1|1|0|1|15/name/Current tax code (2012)

>You mean like how Afghans beat our military with guns, spare parts, and no military?
holy fuck you are dense, you implied that alone, you could beat another nations miliatry. NOT a coordinated effort between afghans with guns. You dumb cunt.
>Translation: I don't understand my own argument.
haha and you say IM the one projecting, you literally had no argument.
But because im so fucking retarded, please explain to me how government control over a currency is "you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?"
>Translation: I'm autistic and I often project.
Translation: I'm autistic and i often project about other people projecting.

I dont expect much from a dumb capitalist, but you are really below the standards here. Try harder.

It will never get passed for same reason.

Politicians get money through lobbyists.

Business have to lobby because of high taxation so politician can create loophole for specific business.

This is like teacher giving extra marks to a kid who gives him $10 bribe and you are expecting teacher to stop doing it.

This

Ancap's are faggots, an inherent part of nationalism is ensuring you give back to your nation, there's nothing wrong with charging the most rich and powerful in a nation higher taxes. Of course that doesn't mean I want to take a third of their income, just that wealthy people who can very easily afford to contribute more to their nation should do so.

>holy fuck you are dense, you implied that alone, you could beat another nations miliatry. NOT a coordinated effort between afghans with guns. You dumb cunt.
Translation: My reading comprehension is shit, so I'll interpret your arguments in whatever manner suits my strawman best and refuse to attempt to understand what you're actually saying.
>explain to me how government control over a currency is "you mean like when I'm forbidden from trading tomatoes for my neighbor's strawberries?"
It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed. Maybe you should get an education, or just try lurking a few more years. You're way out of your depth right now.
>Translation: I'm autistic
The first thing you've said that I actually believe.
>I dont expect much from a dumb capitalist
Never said I was a capitalist. You're either new here or a very slow learner.

Think about The money saved by not consulting tax lawyers or accountants.

There are people whose jobs depend on complicated tax code. And they will lobby hard to keep it that way.

I would support it. It's better than redistribution for the sake of redistribution. That being said, I think that we should abolish welfare and cut military spending.

They will do so voluntarily if you don't force them to though. You think they're just going to throw all their money in a cave somewhere and hoard it? They invest it in jobs, research and development, charity.

Why do you think when government spends money it contributes to nation but ordinary citizen spends same money it doesn't?

Then why justify taxation anyway.

Taxation is basically Jim's money spent by Kim working in government on Tim.

Yeah it's fucked up. Accountants basically have the IRS fuck people up for not filing correctly, so out of fear we have to pay for their services. Fortunately, all I need is Turbotax, I'd hate dealing with this shit before before the advent of tax software.

>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed.
ahahahahahahhaahhhahahahahahahha you have got to be clinically retarded. this is a strawman of the highest order, not ONCE did i say bartering would be illegal you doublenigger.
>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed. Maybe you should get an education
holy fuck i hope i dont break my face cringing so much, this is so fucking wrong i dont know where to start. Who says its illegal to barter because it isnt taxed? nigger. also
>implying sales tax

>Never said I was a capitalist.
i was making an assumption, feel free to correct me my dude, oh wait...
>You're either new here or a very slow learner.
whoa! so your an oldfag huh? pretty cool!!! teach me the ways of the oldfag how do i become down syndrome like u?
also
>even pretending to know what you are talking about

Thief : Give me your money I will spend that money on things and it will create jobs.

People : Ohh how nice of you to create jobs. Here take our watches too.

Now change thief with government

>It's illegal to barter because it isn't taxed.

What kind of authoritarian hell hole you are living in?

yes. that's why it will not be instituted.

It doesn't matter. Expenses matter, you can have any tax rate you want, it can be 80% flat tax and if you spend money on bullshit you're still going to suffer from budget deficit. It can be up to 50% progressive and the same will happen. It can be 5% flat and the same happens.

Also it doesn't wreck the middle class, it only elevates upper class(but at the same time makes it less financially viable to avoid them) and wrecks the welfare-dependant underclass because there won't be any money for dem programs. Unless you think that people on welfare are middle class lol.

>the only good weapons are perfect superweapons that can stand up to everything on their own
teenager detected

>ahahahahahahhaahhhahahahahahahha you have got to be clinically retarded. this is a strawman of the highest order, not ONCE did i say bartering would be illegal you doublenigger.
It's illegal to barter in every system with an enforced currency. I'd ask you to name one case where that isn't true, but unlike you I'm actually educated, so I won't bother.
>holy fuck i hope i dont break my face cringing so much, this is so fucking wrong i dont know where to start. Who says its illegal to barter because it isnt taxed? nigger. also
That's a lot of typing to say nothing a second time. A sure sign that you're way out of your depth with nothing to say.
>whoa! so your an oldfag huh? pretty cool!!! teach me the ways of the oldfag how do i become down syndrome like u?
At least you didn't deny it.

>teenager detected

>projection detected

>Income tax is ridiculous.
It makes exactly the same sense as property tax.
You can't make an income with a regular wage-earning job or whatever unless the government guards the borders to stop the Chinese just guilloutining you / your employer.
And likewise you (probably) need ROADS to get to your job.
The government is the steward of the infrastructural environment which is necessary to sustain wage-earning employment.

>doesnt understand the origin of civilization/why governments exist in the first place
>implying the people were already prosperous before the "government" came out from the shadows demanding money

this, and to be honest most things that draw on taxes to fund can be funded just as easily by the government printing money, such as the state jobs (incoming austrian economics idiots)

>name one case where that isn't true
we are talking ideals faggot, not real life occurrences.
>nothing to say.
why are you implying that you have said more than me?
>At least you didn't deny it.
deny what? that u are the oh so great oldfag, i mean a whole 4 months on Sup Forums how can i top that?? i bet you even learn from reddit too, in the ways of posting and everyone thinking ur cool.

Heres a conversation starter, does government diplomacy have SOME benefits?

The only way you could have a worse position is if you said "raise my taxes and don't bother with the details"

>most things that draw on taxes to fund can be funded just as easily by the government printing money
Did you just spouted economically illiterate bullshit or did I get it wrong?

Anyone who advocates for progressive tax should be lined up and shot

>You can't make an income with a regular wage-earning job or whatever unless the government guards the borders to stop the Chinese just guilloutining you / your employer.

Better buy guns then.

Politicians in Government will most probably give your money to Chinese instead of saving your ass.

Your ignorance disgusts me.

After much deliberation in attempting to decide whether you were worth any more of my time, I've concluded that the answer is no.

Given about ten years of intense study you might reach my level. Even then, I doubt it. That in itself is no sin. It's your arrogance coupled with your incredible ignorance that's so galling.

The sooner you understand that this board hosts people far, far beyond you in knowledge, the sooner you'll begin learning from them. At that point you may actually improve as a human being.

By my estimate it will take a lot more shaming and humbling before you get there, and you aren't even close to capitulating at this time.

It's a waste of my time to nudge you there. Mid-tier user's will do it, and their time is far less valuable.

You should consider yourself lucky. Rarely do I give anyone as much attention as this. If you knew who I was, you would agree.

hangon, you may be right, i meant that most government programs that have taxes go into, but also pay out again to government employees, can be funded just as easily by the government printing money.

woah calm down there, slatko, explain your reasoning please :--^)

>that spacing
so you DO learn from reddit! im on to you, im going to learn the secrets :----^)
but to be honest u sound like a really SMART and WELL ROUNDED guy
funny to think i used to be JUST like you
>Mid-tier user's will do it, their time is far less valuable.
Yes, you could be spending your time making millions! unleashing the knowledge of the ages, helping your people escape their plight, so much more then debating with a dumb gommie i mean whos got time for differing opinions.
>You should consider yourself lucky. Rarely do I give anyone as much attention as this.
please teach me oh great one, i look up to you in every way and so does everyone else on this board. I am blessed for this time you have spent on me! my life goals have been accomplished.
>If you knew who I was, you would agree.
oh shit, you'r hitler!

anyway, i bid you farewell as you go back to watching your prager university videos

Flat tax of 18% above 20k,

If you make 20k or less you don't pay taxes,
if you make above 20k you are taxes 18% of everything above 20k, eg if you made 21k last year you will only pay $180 in taxes, if you made 100k you only pay, 14,400.

hangon, you may be right, i meant that most government programs that have taxes go into, but also pay out again to government employees, can be funded just as easily by the government printing money.

You understand that the only thing that gives fiat currencies any kind of value is the fact that you need them to pay taxes? And that without the need to pay taxes, people would trade with anything else that doesn't constantly lose value?

>the only thing that gives fiat currencies any kind of value is the fact that you need them to pay taxes?
any currency is only given value by what people place on it, in reality gold is just a shiny metal with the odd quality of not decaying.
and besides, im not suggesting that taxes will be abolished, taxes will still be used to fund things such as infrastructure, but it will just be reduced.
>And that without the need to pay taxes, people would trade with anything else that doesn't constantly lose value?
is this a bad thing? i believe in the free market when it comes to different currencies, trade within a nation should be free.

ay btw your flag turned sideways