So I've been reading this lately and I can't help but feel Spengler is right and the barbarians are the muslims. What do you think Sup Forums?
For those that haven't read it, Spengler poses every civilization has a set lifetime and once it reaches its decadence it gets supplanted by a new, fertile civilization (barbarians) that supplant it and usher in a new civilization.
I've read it. He was pretty much right on everything.
He doesn't say that old civilisations necessarily die. Look at the Middle East, India and China.
Muslims (and others) do pose a threat to the West, though.
Spengler is spot on, absolutely, but there is plenty of hope yet. Chiefly that we metamorphose into a NEW civilisation, as China has done, time and time again, while not suffering too terribly from ethnic distortion. The Moors can be defeated, and every crime they do just hastens the turning of the tide. I agree that the old West is coming to an end, but that doesn't rule out the emergence of a new Europe. It might even bridge the old Romano-German vs. Graeco-Slavonic divide this time.
'Barbarians' can come from within also. Got a lot of good friends and family, good people, just waiting for the chaos so that we have a chance to assert ourselves and our values. The end of an old, decadent, stratified and immobile hierarchy is merely opportunity for the suppressed to assert themselves and act. Will fight tooth and nail against inferior and unwholesome ideologies and peoples to see that mine prosper.
Indeed.
Fun fact: I'm related to him. No lie.
The threat that Islam poses is that it is within our borders. There's other strong beliefs about, but Islam is the one that is here, and that is the risk.
The real damage to Europe is more a sense of tiredness and apathy. Douglas Murray's new book has a whole chapter on it.
I think it's a mixture of what Spengler calls decadence, and the r/K theory.
>As for the luvvies, they are programmed robots, designed to side with force. Eric Hoffer wrote that the left would bite the hand that fed them, and lick the boot that kicked them, and he was right. In cases of Stockholm Syndrome, victims have actually sided with kidnappers who have violently tortured them, and turned on the Police officers who rescued them. Why? The Police are not a threat, the torturers were, and the only way a rabbit can deal with threat is to prostrate themselves and beg for mercy.
>The luvvies are the same thing. So long as we K-strategists are likely to let an attack slide, and we are not pissed enough to act, the luvvies will attack us, and side with the terrorists. The more reasonable we are, and the more violent and unreasonable the attackers, the more the luvvies will signal by attacking us as a way of alleviating threat. But mark my words, the instant we decide we are going to draw blood until there is no more to draw, the luvvies will either side with us, or lead the charge. Their goal is to be on the winning side.
I think this "new" civilisation will see the (ironically, since it will be fought by nationalists) a "new" Europe. Even Mosley thought that Europe would coalesce into a single identity, and we see aspects of that in how our ideals come from various features of the Western world. The Peace of Westphalia (national sovereignty) and Bill of Rights (freedom of the individual against the state) are not a single nation's ideals, but turned into "Western" ideals in time.
>he end of an old, decadent, stratified and immobile hierarchy
Exactly. I hardly even mourn it. It did great things in the Middle Ages, sure, this old Faustian Culture of ours, but a shake-up is LONG overdue. People probably felt similar in the 400s, actually.
Well, the idea is that when a civilisation exhausts it's creativity it "stiffens". That's what makes it weak to outside forces.
Non-Western whites (in particular) may be able to add their blood to the pool, as long as their children are raised as part of Western culture.
I agree with the Muslim threat being within our borders, but there are other less outwardly hostile threats.
We just need this "Caesarism" thing to come about. Maybe then we'll get some effective leaders.
>my dad works for nintendo
if you are still here: i have a .doc with all the passages from the book I wanted to remember (including a lot of Spengler's oneliners) in German. I can paste the text here if ya want
I don't doubt this, and welcome it, really. My children are half English, and I speak Russian.
Mosley was a great man. What is it about Oswalds? And why is it so hard to convince my wife to name our next son Oswaldo?
>We just need this "Caesarism" thing to come about.
Alternatively, the entire trajectory can be thrown off its rails by external disruption. Seems to me that populism can also do this, as the masses are the part of the population least 'touched' by the ruling Idea, and don't really carry it within them in a true genetic sense.
>The threat that Islam poses is that it is within our borders.
and the fact that technology has progressed to the point its trivial to move and accommodate large numbers of people very quickly.
please do senpai
Bring em on
Please post.
What a coincidence, I just made a post about him
Barbarians aren't just muslims but yes, our civilisation is in it's winter and overdue to die.
It would appear this would also be likely to taint populist leaders, who hold to "Republican" views. The transition from Republic to Empire in Rome looked more delayed than in other civilisations. Men like Sulla and Pompey were not willing to fully consolidate their power.
Julius Caesar recognised things more clearly.
Speaking of Mosley and Caesar, he said that the three great "Men of Action" were Caeser, Napoleon, Chatham, Marlborough, Frederick Hohenstaufen, and Frederick the Great.
>Study not your mentor, but your mentor's mentors.
sorry for the delay, they are acoming
„Für den Herrscher der Mitte gibt es kein Ausland" (Kung-Yang)
Goethe: wir sehen, wie eine geprägte Form sich in den einzelnen Exemplaren entwickelt, nicht, wie sie für die ganze Gattung geprägt wird
über Mussolini:
"was die Zukunft vorwegnimmt, ist nicht das Dasein des Fachismus als Partei, sondern einzig und allein die Gestalt ihres Schöpfers [...] Mussolini ist vor allem Staatsmann, eiskalt und skeptisch, Realist, Diplomat. Er regiert wirklich allein. Er sieht alles - die seltenste Fähigkeit bei einem absoluten Herrscher."
Waren die Römer ein Volk, was waren dann die Latiner?
Man darf annehmen, daß zur Zeit Cäsars weit über die Hälfte des antiken Goldes sich jederzeit in Rom befand.
Erst das Geld erhebt den Geist auf den Thron. Demokratie ist die vollendete Gleichsetzung von Geld und politischer Macht.
Ganze Völker haben durch die zehrende Kümmerlichkeit ihrer Lebenshaltung die Spannkraft der Rasse verloren. Hier stirbt man an etwas, nicht für etwas.
Je allgemeiner das Wahlrecht, desto geringer wird die Macht einer Wählerschaft.
Die Odyssee kennt das Königtum eigentlich nur noch, weil es zur Sage gehört.
Der parlamentarische Stil ist völlig identisch mit dem der Kabinettsdiplomatie , auf dieser antidemokratischen Herkunft beruht das Geheimnis seiner Erfolge.
Die Plebs wird zum Populus Romanus in demselben Sinne, wie sich 1789 der tiers als Nation konstituierte.
In Sparta hat damals Pausanias die Helotenbefreiung vergeblich angestrebt.
Den abendländischen Rassen ist das Dynastische ins Blut gedrungen
Diokletians, der 295 den Mithras zum henotheistischen Reichsgott erhebt
„Evangelium nach Markus" bedeutet: Markus bürgt für die Wahrheit dieser Botschaft.
Man würde in Alexandrianie gesagt haben, daß Plato irre, aber man „deutete" ihn.
Die Buße setzt den Willen eines Ich voraus, die Gnade kennt ihn gar nicht
>>fuck, only 2k characters are allowed, I'm gonna put the text in a doc and give you the link lest I'd be here for the rest of the day
Jesus hatte in Galiläagelebt. Sollte die Lehre von ihm nach West oder Ost gerichtet sein? [...] Warum ging er nach Rom, nach Korinth und nicht nach Edessa oder Ktesiphon? Und warum nur in die Städte und niemals von Dorf zu Dorf?
Die letzten Heiden wurden später pagani genannt, die Leute auf dem Lande
Die Nestorianerkirche ist so wenig wie die persische eine Summe, sondern eine magische Einheit
Die kanonischen Bücher sind national, die apokalyptischen international im wörtlichen Sinne
Die heutige Frömmigkeit des Bauern ist älter als das Christentum
Je lauter man die Prinzipien eines fremden Denkens rühmt, desto gründlicher hat man sicherlich ihren Sinn verändert
Für den echten Staatsmann gibt es nur politische Tatsachen, keine politischen Wahrheiten. Die berühmte Frage des Pilatus ist die eines jeden Tatsachenmenschen."
Gesetzt, daß der Sozialismus, ethisch, nichtwirtschaftlich verstanden, das Weltgefühl ist, welches die eigne Meinung im Namen aller verfolgt, so sind wir ohne Ausnahme Sozialisten, ob wir es wissen und wollen oder nicht.
Der Römer selbst der letzten republikanischen Zeit hat unter patria niemals Italien, auch nicht Latium, stets nur die Urbs Roma verstanden.
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get it here:
drive.google.com
those are the passages I DEEM to be most interesting and wanted to remember from the book
>the decline of the West
What a shit translation of "Untergang des Abendlandes".
"Untergang" has far more apocalyptic connotations than mere "decline". "Downfall" is a more appropriate translation.
Also, Spengler predicted that only (pre-WW2) Germany could potentially save the West were it to become hegemonic, as Anglos and French were too far gone and Germany was the only truly vital country left.
Germany certainly did try, but we all know how that went.
Putin strikes me as very much a "tsar" figure.
Amaury de Riencourt's "The Coming Caesars" is an interesting read. He describes the now rather obvious view that America has become the dominant Western power. His work is largely derivative of Spengler's, but interesting nonetheless.
Read Imperium by Francis Parker Yockey, its supposed to be a sequel to The Decline of the West
He predicted that Hitler would fail, too, later on (he died before WW2).
While I agree that Anglos and French were "gone" before Germany, all it takes is an ambitious leader to tale the helm. All the other civilisations experienced widespread rot.
I've read Yockey. He has his moments, but I don't think the original prophet can be surpassed.
Sup Forums needs to meme God Emperor Trump w/ Spengler
That's literally EVERY European country east of Germany.
Modern Muslims are to modern Slavs what Huns were to Germanic tribes. The new supercivilization of the world will be a West/South-Slavic one.
I'd be up for it.
If you understand Portuguese, skip to 30:02
youtube.com
What are White Canadians to do?
My country's destruction is pretty much a coinflip, but Canada's destruction along with North America is assured.
Staying in Canada is not a feasible option if you want offspring.
Dose anyone else agree that the left should be do onto others what they would have us do onto them?
youtube.com
For those interested, link above have pretty good material on Spengler philosophy.
This book has infinitely greater depth and is well researched.
Spengler: Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China, Greek/Roman, Middle East, Mesoamerica, The West
? Russia (and related) - 9th emerging high culture
I don't know how bad it is in Canada. Do what many white South Africans did and leave if it gets too bad.
>This book has infinitely greater depth
You an't got a fuckin clue. Murray's book's probably good, but the title promises little more than an analysis of the facts behind the current issue. Spengler's covers the very nature of humanity in a vast universal and timeless sense.
We are heading into the age of the Caesars. Nothign we can do about it.
Yeah Spengler is a crazy genius. Read his book. Also a great source on art criticism, interestingly enough. Uses the development of art as a guage for the rise and fall of a civilization.
We are seeing the winter of the Faustian age.
Spengler's problem is also what makes him unique - he was an autodidact. Some of the categories he employs seem arbitrary (especially the different civilizations, like "Magian"), and he is apparently unaware of ancient views of cyclical time. If he had been aware of these, it might have fleshed out his theories. I'm talking about the Hindu doctrine of the Yugas, Hesiod's four ages, Plato's Great Year, analogous concepts with the Mayans and ancient Nordics, etc. Actually Rene Guenon is a great companion to Spengler's thought, because Guenon was the preeminent expert on ancient nonwestern (Traditional) civilizations and worldviews.
He was quite highly educated in a formal sense, too. Many of the things you mentioned, he would have been familiar with. He may not have alluded to them much as they were more mythological than historical.
I wouldn't say I agreed with absolutely everything between the covers of the Untergang, but you do Spengler a disservice with this analysis.
By the way, Lev Gumilyov wrote a lot that complements this sort of thing too. There are some English translations online for those who care to take a look, but I read them in the original, and suspect the versions available in English won't do them justice.
Great quote.
And this tells us how to stop it.
Where do you guys think America fits in with all this? I like to think we're worth saving but we have absolute fuck loads of blacks and hispanics at this point. Do you guys think it will take years of suffering under low IQ masses before minority whites in America get fed up and truly attempt to turn America into what it once was before the immigration act of 1965?
Judging by the last 20 or so years I'd say no one in the US government has ever read it m8
America is pretty much lost on a spiritual level because you don't have a spiritual claim to the land, just a conqueror's claim. Really not sure what's going to happen to you, but I have a feeling it will be physically worse than what will happen to Europe.