If automation replaces blue collar jobs and AI replaces white collar jobs then is a basic income the only humane option...

If automation replaces blue collar jobs and AI replaces white collar jobs then is a basic income the only humane option left for humans? What are the alternatives?

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Nigger, the only reason they'd ever institute UBI is to get idiots like you to let your guard down as they prepare mass liquidations of the population.

kill all humans

watching ads for satoshi

anything AI and robots cant do

Rude.

It would be but it probably won't happen. More likely its just going to be a benign neglect filled with social wellfare Programs slowly rotting away the working class until non-existance.

You need your retarded illusions like UBI rudely shattered.
Also, fuck automation, oh boy we can make dildoes more efficiently now, what progress for humanity!

yeah, but what cant ai and robots do in 20-30 years? what happens post-singularity?

Get a fucking job.. there will never be a time in your life where the government give you full salary for sitting and shit posting on Sup Forums.

>having a job that a machine or computer could do in your lifetime

git gud skrub.

t. liability adjuster

that came out wrong..
>there will never be a time in your life where the government give you full salary for sitting and shit posting on Sup Forums.
should have been
>there will never be a time in your life where the government give you full salary for doing nothing.

Eugenics is the solution. Sub-100 IQ will be completely obsolete in 50 years.

>post-singularity
Techno-Jesus isn't coming to deus ex machina humanity to salvation.

Boy you're dumb huh? That's exactly how the market works you fucking idiot. Efficiency is always pursued, as is new technology. Better sack up and get used to it right now before your shitty stem degree is totally worthless

>but what cant ai and robots do in 20-30 years?
most things

And then 10 years later sub 110. 10 years after that sub 125 will be obsolete. Etc etc

>what are the alternatives?

Mass genocide.

Seriously, do you think the most wealthy ppl will sacrifice a huge chunk of $$$ to support NEETs like you or will they just turn their droid army on you and reduce the strain on the planet by like 95% and create a rich prick paradise? Which sounds more plausible?

that's the plan my pal

Recently I've read an interesting article from a Hungarian newspaper from the 60's, it was an interview with a scientist about what the future holds.

Obviously, most of it was communist bullshit, but there was one interesting though:

When the scientist was asked about complete automation, he responded:

"Humanity grew to adulthood, let's not degrade it back to powerless infancy."

In other words, the question about complete automation is not "can we?" but "should we?".

humanity will be passed by ai, and we will progress onwards

...

not really
robots are nowhere near replacing maids/gardeners

(((study)))

>do you think the most wealthy ppl will sacrifice a huge chunk of $$$ to support NEETs like you or will they just turn their droid army on you
Well if the past 100 years of failed counter-insurrectionary wars are any indication, it probably WILL be cheaper and easier to do UBI

I'm not too worried, increased complexity always mean increased problems. Technological society will suffer cascading failures well before full automation and hard AIs, especially on the path its taking.

ill be good for a long time then

Why would they pay you to do nothing though?
If I am paying you I can always find some bullshit for you to do

>humanity will be passed by ai
I highly doubt it.

In 50 years, they will have, yes.
And by that point we might not even be human anymore ourselves.

>over 50% of society will be maids and gardeners

>In 50 years, they will have, yes.
keep telling yourself this

Depending on your government.
you might get I don't think basic income should be a thing, rather the expenses would decrease into nothing and the economy would slowly, and very peacefully collapse.

After the economy is dead, we can make a new system where people have access to free basic resources, like food, clothes, shelter etc., but improving your condition will depend on your efforts.

It would allow people to be a hell of a lot more creative with their time. Social events will become more complex, art will flourish, people will compete with ideas, etc., and a new economy based on concepts, ideas, and well crafted items, that will keep us all busy.

I never said that
But theoretically if I am already paying you to do nothing then why not?

>the market will keep seeking ways to remove jobs therefore remove disposable income and available income to buy said products that were streamlined
the market exists because of jobs created from it, once they start taking jobs away the market wont be a market anymore
robot workers is just globalist bullshit to enslave us, does anybody here know how economies work? its so fucking simple.

This.

Doing nothing will be the most efficient use of your time to an employer that relies on automation. Inserting a human into a automated pipeline essentially undoes all of the benefits of having automation in the first place. You're not going to be any better, any faster, any more efficient than a machine. You're going to be the biggest point of failure in the chain, probably by a factor of 1000.

Maybe you'll be better at sucking dick or something, but that's about it. And if you're an elite, would you want a blowjob from some poor smelly faggot?

>What is the industrial revolution and why are there still jobs
This automation bullshit is a meme pushed by Silicon Valley leftists like Cuckberg to push UBI.

>Probable Cuckberg shills
S A G E
A
G
E

>is a basic income the only humane option left for humans?

Basic income doesn't fix the problem of overpopulation.

Automation and AI only fix the problems of drudgery and the limits of computation, they can't fix the fact that we have finite resources and a finite population.

All of our current economic models are based on unlimited growth, which is wholly unsustainable.

UBI can only work when there is a very small population (less than 500M worldwide) and even then you have the problem of humans needing a purpose.

Exploration of the universe is what is next after that. I suspect that people end up returning to a agricultural and frontier way of life well most people. that or the technocrats will reduce the population which will lead to the end of humanity eventually.

Why do people buy paintings when photographs are superior and cheaper?
If people have money they will spend it on hand crafted items for status

literally all thats needed is a better source of power
youtube.com/watch?v=-7xvqQeoA8c

Reduction of human population to 500 million:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

>robots take jobs
>everyone gets sacked
>people get mad
>form criminal organizations with their endless free time
>theft becomes a major issue with thieve's guilds around every corner
>people get more angry
>revolution
>storm workplaces
>destroy any machines that can be replaced by a human
>kill owners
>communist revolution

And AI that can adapt to an unlimited amount of custom tasks

cleaning and watering plants isnt that hard though

i wouldnt trust them to raise kids or anything i guess

You forgot:
>in 20 years you have a failed state

People don't. Elites do, and it's a status symbol as it is. Now imagine that handcrafting bullshit is the only activity you and everyone else are competitive at. Suddenly, everyone is doing it. Those handcrafted items require resources, which you need to buy from one of the elites to begin with. Is it cost effective anymore on a market where everyone is going for the same supplies and the same kinds of items, just with a different skin on it?

Check out Etsy to see what kind of scraps you'll be able to make.

Yes, UBI is an inevitability.
It's being tested currently in Finland.
It's going to let people scrape by the very bare minimum, but it's going to keep them alive.

>Muh industrial revolution
Humans were still needed a whole lot.
This time around it's going to be closer to what happened to horse drawn carriages when cars arrived.
Horses even today have jobs and a purpose, but they're extremely specialized.
They're not doing the grunt jobs like they used to, because they're completely obsolete.
Same will happen with automation.
The grunt tier jobs are going to start disappearing and you're not going to be reeducating those masses to work as coders.
There's no magical job market that's going to pop out from behind the corner when automation hits, because the new jobs are all going to require some level of education.

>People don't
Why do people go to concerts when the sound quality of recorded music is superior?
>Check out Etsy to see what kind of scraps you'll be able to make.
Deflation will solve this problem

>Why do people buy paintings

Paintings are an easy way of laundering money

build a bunch of pyramids for income

>>They
>>Implies that individual companies within the free market will give a fuck about the macroeconomic consequences of their collective decisions
>>Implies that the market for a product consists only of the people making the product and not a vastly more dispersed group of the population
Because the only people who buy a Volkswagen are people working for Volkswagen therefore firing people will directly impact our customer base right?

Your average person doesn't even go to concerts. Going to festivals or to see Bruce Springsteen is already a luxury that most people would not be able to afford to do with any regularity. And what, we're all going to be singers?

>Deflation will solve this problem
Sure it will.

Yup, that to.
Then we build a new democracy and start over.

If everyone has money, nobody has money.

UBI is gay. Just get rid of the parasites and lower the cost of living. Done.

plenty of middle class people pay a few hundred dollars for paintings

No need for humans at that point anymore senpai

>Your average person doesn't even go to concerts.
maybe in poortugal

Call me stupid but I don't get the idea that automation will replace most of the jobs. Lets say it happens and 90% of the workforce is suddenly unemployed. For whom will the robots produce goods? For the unemployed living on welfare? Sounds pretty fucking absurd.

I'm becoming a nurse because that job will never become automated

FPBP

>For whom will the robots produce goods?
the elite. never underestimate how much you can consume

depends how to define "full salary" I mean if you're talking about enough money to live a comfortable middle or upper class lifestyle you're probably right, but there are already places doing Universal Basic Income trials and offering better-than-welfare amounts of money. It's still not a lot, but there are a few small cities in Canada trying it now, offering about ~$17,000/year and apparently increasing it to 20-24k/year on the next trial. My own monthly expenses are about $1400/month and I live comfortably, so I'd just barely be able to live off that $17k/year UBI without changing my lifestyle at all, just wouldn't have any savings.

>never underestimate how much you can consume
the same marxists that are pushing for UBI are the ones complaining about rich people "hoarding money"

>What are the alternatives?
A slow and agonizing death for those too stupid to figure out a way of making money like it should have always been.

>we cant have assembly lines because artisans will lose their jobs!
this is what you sound like if you "dont believe" in automation or whatever. it's GONNA happen, you better accept it now and figure out you're role in an economy based not on survival needs but more complex social phenomena like humor, art, music, irony, metaphor and other conceptual constructs that robots can't reproduce.

robots just will be superior and we will lose meaning in life, there will be mass suicides, only feminine social jobs will remain.

that not true to the end, being social will be more valuable in robot age, high IQ people are autistists

Universal Basic Income terrifies me
permanent welfare
entirely dependent on the state
contract the jobs market
cut UBI payments incrementally
no way to sustain yourself
no way to opt out
generations pass
youngens know no different
this is their normal
technocratic neo-feudalism
total slavery worldwide
the new age is the dark age

big bad future so scawwy. much better to just chop wood for 10 hours a day and then die from the flu

The general idea is that once human labor gets replaced by automation goods become abundant and available to everyone while currency useless, to a point where working is just a way to brag and gain more privileges than normal.
What is actually going to happen is that we'll turn into a dystopian nightmare where everyone's living conditions are shit because powerful people will not allow us to abandon currency and you will only allowed a minimal pittance from the state, a privileged elitè will be the only ones allowed to contribute and thus rule society, we'll go back to a stratified hierarchy and democracy will ultimately go fuck itself as even education will fall back as there will no longer be a need to teach humans and ignorant people are easier to control.
Be happy we live in the century before that happens, it's going to get a hell of lot worse in the next 50 years.

>people think the future is going to be like a sci fi movie
maybe like mad max

>and figure out you're role in an economy based not on survival needs but more complex social phenomena like humor, art, music, irony, metaphor and other conceptual constructs that robots can't reproduce.
phrasing like this from reddit is exactly why i hate everyone who advocates for UBI. stop acting like anyone who works at a factory is a 80 IQ moron that can't remember which way is left.

"oh dude you don't understand my metaironic musical art that's a metaphor for our conceptural constructs of conceptual constructions is like so importaant, you need to pay for it or youre a dumb rural suburban retard, you like dont understaand duudue elon muuusk"

FUCK OFF.

>i dont like it therefore its wrong :(
hey, how about you wander off into the outback and go fuck yourself?

if ten thousand pigs fly out of my ass with degrees in hyper-calculus can we enslave all the math teachers and use them as replacement labor in the cotton fields?

oil is slowly disappearing and people think they are going to make robots

how about you stop acting like a hipster in san francisco working at some obscure startup? people will not like you if you treat them like retards. i'm stunned that you haven't learned this from trump.

>What are the alternatives?

Plenty of oil and gas left, my grandkids will have to deal with that.

You underestimate our industry too much, we oil runs out we just switch to solar, nuclear, coal, gas, etc. etc and start making shit that runs on electricity.

i dont give a shit if you "like me" you inbred island dipshit. YOU responded to ME. if you dont like if you can fuck off. the trajectory of the near future is obvious, and the only thing you can do is shriek and whine like a baby. get on fucking board or shut up

wait maybe people create steampunk robots
with a coal furnace to power them up, could be cool

it can happen guys

we have so much oil we won't run out in the next 500 years. anyone who thinks oil is going to "disappear" doesn't understand what peak oil is. australia has hit peak coal something like 5 times now.

>the trajectory of the near future is obvious
yeah, because automation elon musk spacex tesla future of batteries moore's law something something i saw it on reddit, right?

technology will not automatically advance just because you say it will. you're still bounded by the laws of physics. show me an AI that actually has a proper working memory (as in an AI that can learn two things and do them both at once without retraining). show me an AI that can develop actual concepts. show me an AI that can run on 20 watts of power and can fit in a lunchbox. until then, fuck off, your "future" is a false marketing gimmick and you're embarrassing the engineers actually working on bringing the future around.

>reeducating those masses to work as coders.
Can't educate all kids in coding either. Coding isn't something everyone is naturally adept at anymore than they are at math. Having some basic skills is not the same as having skills at a level where employers are looking for them.

>technology will not automatically advance just because you say it will.
technology advances whether or not i say anything about it. what the fuck kind of "argument" is this? feel free to continue getting mad at me about nothing fucking moron

Sorry user, Coal is literally Hitler you can't use that shit or the seas will rise by over 6 millions meters.

you see technology as magic. it's not.

"oh dude some completely vague concept i came up with called 'automation' is totally going to come soon, it will make literally all jobs except the ones i see as 'proper' ones completely useless, you better go to university and start worshipping elon musk because i said so, and remember if you disagree you're going against the inexorable march of time! educate yourself (into believing my ideology) and apologize!"

i wish you and all of your kind would just kill yourselves already. UBI is not needed, "automation" is not happening since it's a meaningless fucking buzzword you've invented to give yourself authority, and you need to go back.

soilent green

i didn't invent the term "automation" you fucking mong. you're retarded

yeah, you and your dumbass friends have hijacked it.

we have been automating things since the dawn of civilization, this "deep learning AI ELON MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSK" bullshit isn't anything new. calm the fuck down and get off your high horse, we're not going to turn into star trek. in 50 years you will still have a job, and you will not have UBI. get used to it.

Machines will replace humans, there isnt a job that humans can do that a machine cant do better including governing countries.

>we have been automating things since the dawn of civilization
>"automation" is not happening
duhh durrr im a big fuckign idiot who's mad about nothing at strangers on the internet. did elon musk fuck your mom or something? the dingoeees took my bayybeeee

okay, now you're just being intentionally dishonest. go back and beg for upvotes.

AI is already more intelligent in many regards.

Of course it is because it has no simian emotions to get in the way of rationality. There are already A.I that can fake empathy to manipulate humans and those are absolute retards compared to the things that will exist in the future.

Watch. You're the fool when you're not prepared. It's gonna get much crazier, way sooner than you think.

That would be the best option, but it won't happen. Instead, people who own automated factories and general AI production will liquidate their human staff and reap the financial rewards all for themselves. There will be a class of uber-oligarchs controlling all industries and resources, and a permanent underclass forced to submit for basic necessities like food, water and shelter.

Let humans rule over humans.