Argument For Wage Increases

Do you agree?

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forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/04/05/seattles-2-9-unemployment-rate-tells-us-nothing-about-the-effects-of-seattles-minimum-wage-rise/
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Better to just have a basic income and eliminate the minimum wage.

Yes, every company paying below what she considers to be a living wage should close, and their underpaid employees will now receive a wage of zero. Liberalism is a mental illness.

No. What I pay Jose is none of her business, or Governments

why is it wrong to interere in peoples consensual bedroom experiences but necessary to interfere in their consensual financial experiences?

>If you can't afford to pay a living wage, you can't afford to be in business
>T. A liberal who probably eats big macs and shops at Walmart.
If they want to earn a decent wage, perhaps they should consider learning a skill that involves more than the ability to flex their arm to flip burgers. A month of studying on the internet (no formal education) is enough to get a job that pays at least double the minimum wage. No experience necessary.

I do agree. However, these dipshits think a living wage is a wage that gives you enough to have the newest smartphone, a flatscreen HDTV, a new car, a nice apartment to yourself, money to eat out frequently and buy expensive junk food while having enough left over to go out and do other money consuming shit.

They don't want a living wage, they want a luxury wage.

Also, check 'em.

The arguments for it are irrelevent. You can't arbitrarilly increase the cost of labor, or at least you can't do so without disasterous side effects.

Yeah. If you cant afford to pay a wage that is satisfactory for a living organic sack of mechanized shit to enslave themselves to you at all hours of the week then you shouldn't be in business to begin with.

These store owners are literally killing the economy by hiring immigrants that don't pay any taxes while swelling up the welfare rolls. They take jobs out of the economy, without putting any money into the economy while taking money out by applying for gibmedat through Jezebel the social worker who feels the latin plight.

Raise wages, support your economy, pay taxes and see the money circulate. People with more relax lives and more income are more inclined to spend more thus stimulating the economy while consumers and workers are both happy and satisfied.

Fuck Pedro

If people think your wages are too low, no one forces them to sign the contract. Every wage, and every price for a mutually agreed transaction are economically legitimate.

>how dare you pay someone a low wage!
>I demand you go out of business so both you and your employees starve on welfare instead!

If you have the aptitude and skills to be an asset to the business that employs you, you can demand a higher wage or else you'll take your aptitude and skills to a rival business.

If they genetically modified cows to shit gold, the price of gold would drop dramatically, because it wouldn't be as rare.
Schools and universities shit out millions of potential workers each year.
The population continues to rise.
The cost of labor constantly increases.
Why?

woah woah woah slow down

what is inflation, alex, you fucking commie faggot

Except the owner of that company took a massive risk with his/her investments and subsequently should be rewarded for doing so.

What value does a minimum wage worker bring to the business? Very little they are completely replaceable because they have no proprietary skill.

Businesses are entitled, says the person who wants to live in a two bedroom apartment with their two dogs, in a post they made with their smartphone, while watching netflix in their bigscreen tv. I absolutely despise the term 'living wage' because nobody is willing to define what it means to live since they all know that to do so would be to admit they live a life of luxury.

30% of jobs here are minimum wage, theres just not decent jobs for everyone,

If you can't afford to pay rent for a studio apartment, you can't afford to live in a city. Asking people to pay for your rent so you can try to snag an investment banker is entitlement at its finest.

You are asking human beings to use their lives to subsidize your desire to find a wealthy husband.

If a woman is worth being done, she can earn enough to get by.

If you cant get a good job stop trying to live in fucking Seattle and move somewhere that you can afford.

Minimum wage makes hiring illegals lucrative.

just make eberyfin cheepa

Maybe stop ruining the economy and importing millions of retards to oversaturate the market.

Unless you're not worth very much to the business that employs you. Then you'll just have to try to get the government to demand a higher wage for you. You useless cunt.

Its interesting that she sets up this strawman of an evil entrepreneur, the Small Business Owner who works people to death. Most probably a White Male of course.

In reality, it is mostly large corporations who pay low wages jobs. Its not some business owner with a false sense of entitlement making these wage decisions. Its some salaried executive crunching numbers. The owners of the business are actually stockholders, most of whom work crap 9-5 jobs themselves trying to save for retirement.

I don't agree with the analogy. Population increase means increase in supply AND demand for workers.

The cost of labor should increase, however, if GDP per capita increases because there is a quicker increase wealth to invest or consume (= demand for workers) than in population (= supply for workers). GDP per capita has remained fairly stable historically for very long periods but has been increasing since the industrial revolution.

If you lack the skills to leverage a pay increase or promotion then you deserve neither.

No check's, but I agree 100%

The people complaining about the minimum wage have no idea how to balance their budgets

Yes and no. Entry level positions are for teenagers who want to join the workforce for experience and extra cash while still living at home. The problem is that adults, mainly Mexicans, take these starter jobs and treat them as full time careers. They are given preference due to their age and the fact that they are permanent and have made it so young Americans aren't working anymore.

Minimum wage really shouldn't exist. If a job needs to be done and someone wants to do it at an agreed upon wage, it should be allowed. The problem is that the labor market is flooded by the third world.

Enforce the laws better. Whats the fucking point of ICE?

No.

If you believe it to be so easy to open I business, I say do it yourself then.
The second you sign a multi year lease for a 18k a month store front, pay for and renew the business license, purchase and carry the minimum required 1 million dollar business liability insurance, pay for employee healthcare and birth control, pay for the materials/food/merchandise, pay for the equipment to sell/produce/manufacture said merchandise, pay all the bills for utilities, pay for the inevitable stolen merchandise from customers/employees, and make enough money to pay for your personal bills, YOU CAN THEN CONSIDER why you don't make 15 dollars an hour to flip hamburgers, clean toilets, or answer phones for 8 hours a day.

>democraps killing more small businesses

This isnt news. It has been their MO since forever

In France, communism is so much consensus that everyone (from the far right and Marine Le Pen to the far left) is persuaded that we live in an "ultra-libertarian" society. Meanwhile, government spending is 55% of GDP.

That's because leafs are taught since birth that being self-employed makes you an oppressor. Why do you think all of your local businesses are run by chinks and packies?

They agreed to the wage when they signed on. Don't like it, keep searching

Because consensual bedroom experiences don't bother anyone outside of that bedroom, but "consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.
>what is "dumping"
Your agreements are non-enforceable. The employee can and should steal whatever they like to make up the difference between minimum and their actual rate of pay.
>thinks anything that's not a storefront employing 20 or more people isn't a business
MBA student desperate to increase the value of his shill degree spotted. Run a sole proprietorship for a year so that you know what the fuck you're talking about instead of spraying what your kike prpofessor taught you all over the thread.

There's many "living wage" jobs out there, no experience/education necessary. None of these shits want to work 40+ hours a week, don't want to work labor, don't want to do anything that makes them sweat or get dirty but get paid like an executive for doing next to nothing

Life in America is not designed to be wholly utilitarian. Certainly we consider utilitarian goals when shaping policy, but inherent in our system is inequality and hierarchy - this is not per se bad. The goal has been, and certainly should be, to provide one the necessary tools and avenues to work their way up the hierarchy. When functioning as designed, one need only look to their intelligence, creativity, and work ethic should they find themselves unsuccessful. This is the accepted principal upon which classic liberalism is built.

To preempt the "ackshually"-tier responses, it is certainly up for debate whether the US has stayed true to this guiding principal.

What's the point of government if not to serve its citizens? Where does that 45% go and why?

ive never been in a local business not run by a white guy with a beard;

>Life in America is not designed to be wholly utilitarian
Stop drinking the cum of dead oligarchs, you submissive little cuck.

can confirm

>create environment where only big business can thrive
>complain about big business dominating everything and limited job opportunities

These people never thing things through to the end. It's all about what feels "good" and "right".

>don't import millions of third worlders
>fewer people to do the things
>then you can either pay someone a reasonable wage to make your sandwich or make your own fucking sandwich
of course the left claim to be for the poor and for immigrants at the same time, which is literally impossible. It's a performative contradiction

Ya kek thats why we need to import immigrants to because their worth less.

Liberals just want cheap labor and import immigrants to achieve the necessary oversupply.
Conservatives just want cheap labor and activate the entire reserve army of labor to achieve the necessary oversupply.
All of you corporate sack suckers need grilling.

>The people complaining about the minimum wage have no idea how to balance their budgets

It's not just that, they have absolutely ridiculous standards for what is "livable". What is insane about this is these people literally want to shift away all burden of responsibility for their own lives. It's not "I should learn how to manage my money", it's "the employer should pay for my irresponsible spending".

Their skills are not worth much, so they aren't paid much. The reality is that even homeless americans are fat, and even the poorest of our society live better than most people in the world. But their expectations are so ridiculous that they want to be totally comfortable just for flipping burgers. That's not how it works, and it can't work that way.

One thing America is eventually going to need to undergo is the working class actually being willing to work competitive hours or work competitively. Most of us have gotten so slovenly and we expect so much that businesses would just rather hire other less entitled people.

But then the problem comes right back and bites us in the ass because the slovenly americans with no work ethic just get gibmedats and governmentbux. The only way this is ever going to be fixed is if some fat Americans actually have to starve and know what it's like to actually work hard for a living again instead of being handed comfort for nothing.

Look, I'm not libertarian myself but when more than half of the GDP is allocated by the government, it's not libertarianism.

Lots of people aren't that smart. If you're smart that's very nice for you but it's not like it makes you somehow virtuous. You were born with it and part of the basis of morality is that you tolerate those who are weaker than you and give them a chance

So what? Libertarianism is a crackpot religion just like any other ideology.

>"consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.

How do you define consent then? Maximum individual utility with no constraints? Because by your logic, I could say that every wage that doesn't make be a billionaire is unfair.

i own a business its my own business i cant afford to pay myself a full salary because theres not enough money therefore i should quit my company and live on welfare instead

>Because consensual bedroom experiences don't bother anyone outside of that bedroom, but "consensual" financial experiences under the threat of financial ruin actually do hurt others.

Employers don't threaten potential employees with low wages, dingbat. Life does that. Your employer is not obligated to make your life good. He is obligated to pay you the wage you both agreed to. It's not his fault that you have to eat, and your problems are not his problems.

I fucking hate commies and their retarded "wages are SLAVERY, dude!" bullshit. Life is slavery. You have to fucking survive and fight to survive. You are not entitled to existence and being a lazy shit for nothing.

That sounds almost like an argument for serfdom. That employment places a responsibility on the employer for the welfare of it's employees.

I shouldn't be surprised to see idiotic marxists arguing for a return to serfdom but here we are.

>implying I am, have been, or likely will be on the bottom rung

I am certainly never going to be Trump levels of prominence, but I am on the path to reach levels of influence proportional to the effort exerted. Starting at the age of around 12, I began tailoring every professional and education-centric decision toward my determined goal. For the better part of two decades I have deliberately chosen jobs and interests which serve to build an impressive resume in my field. I have kissed the asses of those worthy of being kissed, and avoided the influence of those doomed to mediocrity. I concede that a degree of this success has come simply from my station in life, which draws on my previous point that we should act to equalize opportunity where possible provided it is not at the expense of the overall principle.

Get your communist drivel out of here - you are either bellend or a manipulator, but either way your mindset is detrimental to human success.

So, where to go after a 12h work day? Into the woods and eating dirt? How can you keep your body healthy until far 60ties if you live under a bridge? London already has two boroughs with closed Policestation and Hospital, because they couldn't pay rent/living costs for those jobs.

But I'm guessing you can shoot the criminals and fix your broken leg with a band aid, as long people make 0.01c/h for you.

>Asking people to work below poverty wages...

(((You))) don't have to take that job. If that job is all that you are skilled enough to do, the fault can only fall on one person.

Hint: It's (((You)))

faggots itt must all be neets because the bitch is actually right

Fuck your entitled pinko, commie, scum, bullshit.

Lol. Nah.

Just an electrician who sees the real world for what it is, and not what your average Bernie supporter wishes it be like.

Most business owners take on a huge amount of risk and responsibility just by remaining open. Even most chain restaurants are ran and owned by a person, not the corporation behind the name. You can only pay out what you bring in. Just because the ceo of Mc Donalds makes 1.6 million doesn't mean that any of that money would ever make a difference at the store front level because it'd never be seen by any of the employees. You could literally remove their salary and disperse it equally amongst every employee and it'd equate to a couple pennies an hour at most. Most small and medium businesses only see just enough money to keep the doors open, the employees paid, and the "owner" modestly compensated after expenses are considered.

SEATTLE MIN WAGE $15/HOUR. 2.8% UNEMPLOYMENT.

RIGHT WING RETARD BILLIONAIRE GLOBALIST CORPORATE SHILLS OF (((POL))) HAVE BEEN ETERNALLY BTFO

Why do people think bubble inhabiting teenager's opinions are valid?

Nobody owes you shit. Survival is not a natural right, comfort even less.

Spoken like a true Trump voter/conservative/Republican

Besides the legitimate survival thing, that is above that.

"If you can't afford to pay a living way you can't afford to be a business... BRB, employers are outsourcing for cheaper labour."


I don't think this person knows how economics work.

Don't like my wage? Don't work at my business. I'm not your mom or dad, I don't owe you shit.

It is serfdom. Left cucks are arguing for their bosses/leaders to give them the pay (resources) to live off of.

Liberals want total destruction of society so you have no loyalties left except to the state

Yes

>So, where to go after a 12h work day? Into the woods and eating dirt? How can you keep your body healthy until far 60ties if you live under a bridge?

Love this mentality. Yeah, people throughout history always lived in comfortable houses, right? Nobody ever raised a family in poverty. They were all given assisted living and plenty of McDonald's to get by.

You're fucking daffy. The issue here is that you think anything below comfortable all expenses paid living is unacceptable, and that everyone should be entitled to an apartment or something. The truth of the matter is, you could be absolutely homeless, and if you aren't a fucking idiot and know the areas where you can shower and use basic tools to keep your appearance relatively decent, you could work a job.

Our poor actually have abundance. The problem is that they're so picky and used to exuberance that it isn't enough for them. They are not content with food every day. It has to be food they *like*. They have to enjoy life, it has to all be sunshine, entertainment, and rainbows.

>raise minimum wage
raising minimum wage encourages illegal behaviour
>enforce the law better

Yeah we can try to fix two problems or not cause one problem.

Don't work somewhere you can't make enough money to live. Demand for labor will increase, then they will be forced to increase wages.

>then they will be forced to increase wages.

That's a good way to destroy the economy.

What people like this don't realize is that adults who work for minimum wage are complacent unambitious brainlets who are perfectly fine working their shit job and then sitting mindlessly in front of the TV. If you improve their wages they might have some extra money to spend on useless products, but ultimately they aren't going to change shit about their lives because they are retarded pond scum who are okay with mediocrity. They are minimum effort people, that's why they want daddy to give them a better minimum wage, because they know in their hearts that they will never seek opportunities and improve their circumstances on their own. And they're perfectly content with that. Gods and clods.

I graduated with a degree in Mathematical Economics from a good school. One of the first things covered in Econ 202; Macroeconomics is the fallacies of price floors and ceilings. Creating a minimum wage that the liberals want to raise oh so dearly will not only artifically raise the price of everything else but hurts the workers in those industries.

It provides a mechanism for corporations to 'collude' without colluding on the lowest possible that they have to pay for entry level shit workers who are essentially waiting to be replaced by automation.

I don't know the hsitory of the minimum wage I'm sure they weren't ill intended when they created it to begin with but its allowed coorporations to pay bottom dollar and employees essentially have no way to negotiate pay upon hiring because... the same position everywhere else pays the same.

I wonder how many of those are h1b visa holders that are payed under the minimum wage legally by dangling permanent residency/citizenship in front of them.

Utility doesn't have anything to do with consent.
How do you define duress, then?
>Employers don't threaten potential employees with low wages, dingbat
They don't need to. They simply arrange for society to do so with their advantages in deciding laws. You're a pretty shitty MBA student if you can't arrange for other people to do your work for you.
>Life is slavery
If we lined all you cucks up and shot you, this problem wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Day of the grill when?
>but I am on the path to reach levels of influence proportional to the effort exerted. Starting at the age of around 12, I began tailoring every professional and education-centric decision toward my determined goal.
>cucked so hard as to think submission to authority was your own idea
That you are licking the boots of your future peers doesn't make you any less a submissive little cuck. Just try to do anything on your own initiative and see just how quickly you're taken down.

0

you retards promised me that if Mr. Sheckelberg had to pay a higher min wage, unemployment would skyrocket.

Always you right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holsters were wrong.

Living wage is defined by Webster:
a wage sufficient to provide the necessities and comforts essential to an acceptable standard of living

So people will claim its acceptable to wipe your ass with newspapers you found on the street. And some would say that a black ass from the ink and dirt is not acceptable.

I don't understand why this is so hard. You know where the business is, where the people are living, the median cost of living at the lowest, and then we will often find out, that simply to stay in a one room shithole in London or NY you would have to earn $12 without catching rats for meals.

Use old iPhones and small Flatscreen TVs are available for $100 each, so this is barely relevant.

Awww, look. The little shit-eating antifag has no argument.

>The employee can and should steal
Nigger / summerfag spotted

I agree. I'm a robotics integrator, with a startup in cooperative robotic systems. More people start demanding higher wages for tasks that are really not at all complex that a deadbeat like me can replace the better argument I have for the long term benefits of replacing obsolete individuals.
It makes it easier for me to sell the $20k package when they have someone demanding $20 per hour so that they can spend it on hair dye, random kickstarter/gofundme crap, and anti-trump t-shirts.

>Most business owners take on a huge amount of risk and responsibility just by remaining open
>an electrician
>doesn't know about sole proprietorships
You're still a cuck for not understanding that sole proprietorships and one-man shops are just as much businesses.
>being this cucked to some fantasy idea of business as owning people
>Liberals want total destruction of society so you have no loyalties left except to the state
True, and I say gas them all. Leftists want the working class to be loyal to one another and overthrow the management class. Know the difference. It could save your life.

Obamaleaf, or just a regular leaf?

It's a stupid argument, aside from being a cherrypicked sample of 1. Do you believe police cause crime? Amount of police in a city and level of crime certainly has a positive correlation.

So, the fully robot future is the extreme version of the "gig economy" where everybody is self employed and we degenerate back to 1:1 hunting for survival for the bits the overlords drop into the ocean of hungry one man shops? Why should anyone want to live in this kind of dystopia and be fine with it?

fuck off and die youre an imbecile and a prick

No because it's not like that human doesn't have agency over oneself. Nobody's forcing them to work that job. It's why I don't get the fucking hubbub about zero hours. I worked a zero hours for a couple years, I had the choice to leave at any time.

right wing retard billionaire corporate cock holster gets btfo on the minimum wage so he dindus onto crime and police which have nothing to do with this thread

wtf I hate immigrants now

forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2017/04/05/seattles-2-9-unemployment-rate-tells-us-nothing-about-the-effects-of-seattles-minimum-wage-rise/

>Sure, it’s lovely that unemployment in Seattle dips under 3%. But an attempt to tie that drop in the unemployment rate to the minimum wage isn’t going to work. For we can as easily note that the unemployment rate has dropped everywhere in the US over this same time period and the minimum wage hasn’t risen everywhere over that time period. We’ve not even got a consistent correlation between minimum wages and unemployment that is.

>Worth noting what my original prediction was. Specifically I pointed out that it would not lead to some howling wasteland where once an economy stood. Rather, that raising the price of low end labour would lead to less low end labour being employed. Quite why the propagandists are so irate over this observation is difficult to understand. If I said that raising the price of apples would mean people bought less apples they’d have shrugged their shoulders in agreement.

>Seattle’s falling unemployment rate tells us absolutely nothing about the effects of Seattle’s minimum wage rise. After all, national unemployment rates have fallen too but minimum wages haven’t risen across the country.

Correlation does not equal causation fwend.

wtf i love billionaire globalist elites now

>if you clearly have a market opportunity you shouldn't take it

anti-capitalists, everyone.

>If we lined all you cucks up and shot you, this problem wouldn't exist and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Day of the grill when?

The point went over your head you fucking retard. Lining me up and shooting me isn't going to suddenly mean you have no need to eat, you god damn moron. You still need to fucking eat, and not a single person on this planet owes you food. So either go out in the wild and get it yourself, or earn it through a job.

You can say all this "sheeple" and "cuck" horse shit you want on here like the commie faggot teenager you are, but at the end of the day you are responsible for your own life. Your employer does not owe you a comfortable life for the mere fact that you exist, and they are not obligated to pay you a king's ransom for your ability to flip a fucking burger.

You are a braindead, entitled loser. And you will remain that way until you let go of your entitled, limpwristed commie beliefs.

>Why should anyone want to live in this kind of dystopia and be fine with it?

Because it's not a moral choice of being kind to others or not. Wealth doesn't come out of nowhere. It is created by hard work and risk taking. Socialist redistributionist policies penalise the productive elements who work and take risks and reward the parasite subhumans and life losers.

AHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

TIM WORSTALL? AHAHAHA typical (((pol))) literally spouting billionaire globalist talking points.

This is the same retard author who promised higher Seattle unemployment because of the min wage when it was 4.3%. Now it's 2.8% and he says:
OY VEY GOOD GOY DON'T RAISE THE MIN WAGE! U MIGHT GET 2.9% UNEMPLOYMENT, STRONG WAGES AND A BOOMING ECONOMY!

When the billionaire globalist shillcucks of (((pol))) fight this hard against raising the minimum wage, you know it's a good thing for workers.

Your billionaire globalist corporate cock holster got eternally btfo

>Correlation does not equal causation fwend.

AAHAHAHAHA you just btfo the entire right wing retard billionaire globalist corporate cock holster argument raising the min wage. You globalist cucks promised me that unemployment would go up. It didn't. You btfo your own entire cuck ideology.

>Correlation does not equal causation fwend
Except when the causation relationship is clear. If paying you costs more than what I can get out of your work, I won't hire you.