Paganism

So why should anyone ever believe in paganism?

Here are some questions:
1) Are your gods literally real? Or are they only pretend play stories?

If its all pretend play why bother?

2) If they are real can you demonstrate them?
What happened to people who did not believe in them?
How about the after life? What is the theology? Do you have anything?

3) The only thing I ever have seen from paganis are vague hippie level stupidities (prove me wrong and post something substantial) like:
>its like the faith of our ancestors man
And our ancestors did not have the internet or electricity.
So why adopt their believes about Odin and not their technological level?

>Its like in your blood man
More non-substantial crap see above.

4) Bonus round give your pagan positions on
>Homosexuality
>Abortion
>Transgender

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=hhkRQUtD_Jo
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion
twitter.com/AnonBabble

And the number of responses is ZERO!
Can a actual pagan show up or anyone talk about what they are?

Kurva ánatok

>moderns LARPing as religious

Could it be the same reasons people some people conert to christianity?

I don't understand this.
I give them a chance I'm not going to blast them with accusations. Let them present what and why they believe it.

I don't see any pagan missionaries in Jehovah witnesses style.

well let's not pretend like the vast majority of christians aren't LARPing as well, especially here on Sup Forums
they are either brought up with a very vague cultural belonging to it(despite never being truly initiated into it and maybe not even attempting to get into it) or they are after the aesthetics and the perceived conservative feeling behind it, they aren't true believers and you know it

Are you a pagan?
>LARPing
I did not use this word sir.

Lets put Christians aside for a moment I want to hear your believe system.

>Are you a pagan?
no

Ok I wanted to start a conversation with one of them.
I want to know what they believe in and to answer my questions.

Do you know what these pagans actually think?

Come on.
Look at our society now. Controlled by kikes and ruined by own own people.
Foreigners infest our lands and we are a doomed people. I'd give anything to go back to how it used to be.

Are you a pagan?
Can you answer my questions?

Eat shit christcuck, we don't need to answer Slav subhumans

I dont think we should value paganism over Christianity or Catholicism unless someone has some good arguments who knows Paganism.

Whatever we need from our religion was subsumed from Paganism into the Christian religions. We know the rituals and holidays and such were absorbed. I see no reason to go back myself.

...

1. They are not real in the physical sense, they are real in the metaphysical sense. You can not prove or disprove the metaphysical through physical evidence. The forces and truths the gods represent are just as real as gravity and any scientific law. They represent metaphysical forces and laws that are always true.

2. You cannot demonstrate them with physical evidence. People who did not believe in them likely succumbed to basic, impure desires and led lives full of vice. There is an underworld and a "heaven" in Germanic/Norse mythology, but overall it is not focused on what comes after life, but how to conduct yourself while you are alive, and make sure your name lives on in the memories of the living, granting you eternal life in the minds of those you leave behind.

3. Internet and electricity (modern luxuries) are not a marker of metaphysical or philosophical attainment. Suggesting that their beliefs are directly responsible for their level of technology is completely retarded, and ignores the huge strides made by the pagan Greeks and Romans that were all but smothered by the Christians, who destroyed technological and philsophical progress so bad that it didn't begin to recover until the Renaissance, when pagan ideas began to circulate once again.

4. Homosexuality is self-indulgent perversion that is against the laws of nature. Abortion is the same. Transgender is the same, or perhaps being influenced by the forces of a feminine goddess.

there's various currents of paganism, some may have a more "legitimate" account of what actual Pagans might have practiced/believed(i.e Greco/Roman paganism), some less(Germanic/Celtic paganism), but it doesn't really matter to me, none of them seems to me to have any legitimate spiritual depth to it due to the intrinsically modern way they came about, as the chain of priesthood was broken and thus there is no direct link to the practices and beliefs those Pagans actually had

I can kinda understand where they come from though, but I just can't see those as legitimate religious movements. It's more of a natural reaction people attached to Europe feel towards modern Christianity and its remote origins.

Anyway, I brought Christians into the question because I see many of them accusing pagans of LARPing, and while they may be right it's pretty much a pot/kettle situation, as although they can at least access to an unbroken tradition like Catholicism for instance, very few of them will and their vision of Christianity will more often than not be as LARP-tier as pagans view their own thing

my two cents

1. They're as real as the desert Jew, meaning they aren't, why bother? Because they those stories and fairy tales have good lessons to teach us and are a good way to pass down ideas to children who can't deal with too many abstractions yet. Christianity certainly has certain good lessons too but I'm fundamentally against original sin and Jesus' pacifism.

3.The pagans have accomplished a lot, see the Roman empire and Greek philosophy.

4. Homos, don't care, gay culture I'm against.
Abortion, in favor for eugenic purposes, but it's mostly used to excuse irresponsibility so I'm undecided yet.
Trans, same as homos, they're going to exist in the world regardless of the main religion, the culture surrounding the identity is awful but doesn't mean the people are. Also more research should go into a cure rather than sex reassignment surgery since it doesn't seem to be a good long term solution for them.

Its just edgelord shit since being a regular atheist is mainstream and boring now

And id like to add, about your first point, anyone who truly believes in their religion is a cuck to their god. If gods were real we should aim to slay them and sit upon their thrones

Atheism is a lack of belief, paganism is about having ideals and traditions, it's not about being edgy, it's about filling the "spiritual" hole that atheist left when they dismantled Christianity in the west.

>Sacrifice the weakest, ugliest, and most undesirable people
How is this a bad thing? European pagan sacrifices were almost always criminals or people who were burdensome on the entire society. This isn't like other parts of the world where they sacrificed the most beautiful virgin maidens.

For a lot of people its about being edgy. The rest are fat white kids who have a fetish for larping as vikings

huh I guess we should just give all the nigs in the penitentiaries to satanists to kill
But in all seriousness sacrificing people is wrong, period.

Has kek not shown himself to you nonbeliever?

...

Or maybe it's an acknowledgement that Christianity celebrates weakness and pacifies the masses? Maybe it's an acknowledgement that following a doctrine of "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor as you would love thyself" makes you nothing but sitting ducks for any group of people with the will to try and dominate you, and does nothing but make you weak in your personal life? Maybe it's an acknowledgement that the instability it created in the Roman Empire is directly correlated with its collapse?

Stop making sweeping generalizations about things you haven't taken the time to understand.

Instead we give them all to the electric chair, conduct a ritual of giving them their favorite food as a last meal, and sacrifice them to the god called Justice.

Just finished reading the Eddas - Snorri's version as well as "The British Eddas" - and guess what?
THOR WAS A TURK
>THOR WAS A TURK
THOR WAS A TURK
>THOR WAS A TURK
THOR WAS A TURK
>THOR WAS A TURK
THOR WAS A TURK
>THOR WAS A TURK

...and "Pagans" are faggots who eat each other's sperm, get to fuck.hippies.

If you're sacrificing criminals to your god then theyll not be appeased, you'd have to sacrifice a whole city of criminals to appease them. People who have stained themselves, their blood is not worth it. Only th eblood of the pure and innocent will do. Anyone who's actually done real sacrirfies will understand it. You can never sacrifice an animal with blemish or the best you had with all pagan religions, why would it be any different with people?

How are those things bad? They're not the best you could do with paganism but it's not dissimilar to christians larping as crusaders posting "inshallah" and "Allah Akbar" in Latin. But neither is an argument against the ideology, it's a laughing matter about the people. Also is a misunderstanding of many religions, it just shows how Christianity has distorted the views of religions and gods. Many deities aren't meant to be worshipped or respected, some are to be feared, some are to be hated for the evil they represent, some are lessons as to how you should not act, not every religion has the same subordination to a deity the way semitic religions do.

Because the reason you are sacrificing them isn't as a gift to the gods, but to show the gods that you are removing those in your society that are abominations to them. That is why you sacrifice the weak and the criminals, to show the gods that you honor their teachings enough to remove those who are an affront to them from your community.

Again, it is no different than giving serial killers the death penalty because of your belief in Justice.

Then that's not sacrifice that's judgement. A sacrifice is an OFFERING

I'm not a pagan but I think I can answer you.
>Are your gods literally real? Or are they only pretend play stories?
The general feeling I have from the neopagan movement that most of the followers don't really believe in the gods the same way as Christians or muslims do. Rather I see the movement as a way of trying to promote the values and lifestyle of the old. There's some rebellion against western culture (and abrahamic religions too).

>If they are real can you demonstrate them?
Religion isn't about proofing existence of a deity.

>What happened to people who did not believe in them?
Depends on the type of paganism but I think most of them didn't have this concept of "if you don't believe, you go to hell" like in christianity etc.
>How about the afterlife? What is the theology? Do you have anything?
Afterlife again depends on the type of paganism, usually afterlife exists with it being some sort of a "spirit" world. As for theology, it doesn't really exist as there are not that many rules or books about the religion itself.

>Why not adopt their technological level?
I don't understand your reasoning. What has technology do with traditions.

Yeah, paganism was way better than Semitic religions, because paganism was never as extreme as say, Islam....except that it was.
Did not require subordination? Are you really dumb enuff to think that? That being a pagan, used to be an OPTION? People got sacrificed when they DID believe, let alone, if they didn't.
These eople claiming to be pagan, are not. Just a bunch of dudes getting together and circle jerking. atting each other on the back over something they don't really know shit about.
They are like Bernie voters.

Justice isn't sacrifice retard

>Yeah, paganism was way better than Semitic religions, because paganism was never as extreme as say, Islam....except that it was.
Indo-Europeans didn't wage holy wars, they might have invoked a god like Mars to help them in battle but when they met another religion they would normally just reason it within Interpratatio Romana or something and be on their way

Contrast this with the Thirty Years War and Northern Crusades and it's a very striking difference.

Thank you.
>1. They are not real in the physical sense, they are real in the metaphysical sense
I understand nothing of this.
Something is real or its not.
Something is demonstrable or its not and if not why believe in it?

I can demonstrate things that would look supernatural or magical to the primitive people of the enlightenment like remote control or communication over radio, X-ray vision.
Things not material however demonstrable with things like phones or radios to be absolutely true.

>There is an underworld and a "heaven" in Germanic/Norse mythology, but overall it is not focused on what comes after life, but how to conduct yourself while you are alive, and make sure your name lives on in the memories of the living, granting you eternal life in the minds of those you leave behind.

Interesting so no after life, are all stories of Valhalla fabrications?
Do your gods have personalities ?
Did you speak with them in visions or out of body experiences?
How do you know of the number of gods or if you go their names right?
What is the relationship between the gods?
Are they more human like (pop culture thor and zeus) or are they abstract forces (like magnetism)?
What about other tribes gods like in:
>Egipt
>Rome
>Hinduism
>Mayans
Ar their gods equally true or fake?
Are they different gods or the same ones under different names?
Can you use the power of different gods and start worshiping lets say Hindu gods like you do with Odin?
What about Christians is the Christian god true? Or is he something else?
How do you honor your gods?
Do you have ceremonies?
How do you know what ceremonies to do and if they are right? (Do your gods literally talk to you?)
What can be gained from the gods?
Can they grant powers D&D style or light manipulations of probability?

And finally how do you know your religion is true and not some fake self delusion?

that pic only really flies for specific texts regarding the North Germanics

we have contemporary accounts from folks like Tacitus, anthropology has helped us learn more about their pantheon, and their brothers like Greco-Romans help us fill in the gaps.

I've been a Neo Pagan for 9 years now, before this bullshit started with the special snowflakes wanted to feel good, and vikings showed up.

I was born Roman Catholic, at the age of 8 I was gifted the book Hagakure about the Bushido, and I came to the conclusion that there are more cultures in the world and each one of them has their truth.
Years pass, and I became atheast, to that point I started to study everything that I could about all religions, and came to the conclusion that every religion is man made, but the lessons that each and everyone of them has is what is important.

Catholic / Christians / Jews : Obey God and receive benefits

Islam: Obey God at all cost and convert everyone for all must be under us

Pagans (North): Live a full life and prove you are worthy of the Gods and enter Valhalla.

So to answer your questions:

1) All Gods are man made, but each God represents an aspect of man.
2) Everyone will believe what after life gives to them, and they will live there life according to which ever way they chose to get to it.
3) in the case of Pagan Practice look to Iceland, part of the population is still following the old ways and with a few changes, like Human and Animal sacrifice has been taken out, because need to fit the times.
4) From what I can gather, stuff like Abortion and Transgender was no were to be found as something to be worthy of note back in the time. Now days, what I can see most Neo pagans do not like the idea of forcing this on people that do not care for it and call it out on (see the group Norsk on Facebook), other (Pagans) see the story of Loki getting Impregnated by the horse Sleipnir like proof of Transgenders in the Edda. In the past Abortion was not practiced in the past, for the life of children was a good sign. Now is up to the individual.

most people now days are LARPing thinking this will make them special in someway or another. I stay true to my path, because for me it's not Fashion.

>me and my friends get into MMO's and RPG's
>friend develops cosplay fantasy of pagan viking men
>we become pagans and reject roman christianity
>we LARP every harvest in the evening with others in our local group
>everyone seems super pumped that we are bringing back identity europa!

...

>3. Internet and electricity (modern luxuries) are
I like this response.

I was asking about it because i have seen pagan answer that implied that they are doing some pretend play to honor their tradition that is actually fake something like military ceremonies.

The whole
>Its because muh connection to ancestors

I love to see a explanation of what you understand under the word metaphysical and how you connect to it.

>4. Homosexuality is self-indulgent perversion that is against the laws of nature
This explained a lot keep it up.

>tacitus
>never went to germany
>never met a german
>called them all filthy barbarians that lived in mud huts and were drunken losers
You really gonna use him as a source
>their brothers the greeks and romans to fill the gaps
A pagan universalist, almost as gay as the christian versions please go kill yourself you retard and come back to me when you have grown up

...

You pull more stupidity out of your ass. Pagan Gods, WERE Gods....nd the crusades, had it not been for Christianity, would have wiped Europe off the face off the map.
Basically the reason what you say happened, happened, is because at the time, European pagans, were a bunch of tiny groups, killing each other over land, like everyone else.
Of course you cannot compare the two times, it is apples and pears.the world was much more integrated, and global at the time, Paganism had already been wiped out, as the inferior ideology it was.
Of course you cannot compare the two..paganism was not organized enuff, or intelligent enuff, to accomplish these things.
btw, I know when you say pagan, what you really mean is not Jew. You should totally come up with a different word. Jews were pagan at the time you are referring to as well. They were likely pagan FIRST.
You are silly, comparing two different points in history, with each other, wishing it made sense....it does not bruh.

No, the lamb without a blemish is an offering. It's saying to the gods "look at this great gift we have given you". The execution of a criminal is saying "look at how much we revere and respect what you stand for. Have your way with this man who was an affront to you". And the gods would be pleased that you exercised their will.

Of course it is. Why put someone to death for a crime? It's to show how seriously you believe in justice. It's to keep the unshakeable belief in justice going for as long as you possibly can. When you stop punishing people harshly for their crimes, the motivations to act in a way that is just slowly disappears. Just look at piracy. It's frowned upon but everyone engages in it, because it isn't enforced. The same is said of nearly all crimes that aren't enforced. No one acts in a way that is "just" in relation to these crimes because the necessary sacrifices to make people believe in that kind of justice are absent.

We make human sacrifices all the time. Just look at our wars. They are all fought for metaphysical concepts. They are fought for our "national interest", or for "freedom". Lady Liberty is extremely close to a pagan goddess in practice, as she embodies that liberty and freedom that we readily sacrifice our youngest and best men and women for. Is Lady Liberty real? Are the concepts she represents real? The latter answer is a resounding yes. They are so real to us that we die by the millions for them. But can you prove the existence of "freedom" from a solely scientific, objective perspective, without entering subjective human experience into the equation at all?

What about Uncle Sam? The idea that he's real is laughable, yet he is universally recognizable, and all Americans know what he represents, and those things are real to them. He "wants you" to act in the American way. But is he real? What about the things he represents?

Don't feed the tripfags.

Hindu and Rome are pagan. Other gods were generally accepted in pagan societies since they had the same root and seemed like the same God but with a different name. Also you keep making the assumption paganism is a religion as Christianity is, think of it as a religion like Shinto or Buddhism, it's a set of ideals sometimes accompanied by the supernatural and rites. Actual supernatural beliefs are unfounded in any religion so to me it's idiotic but to your questions the gods do have personalities, whether they actual exist the stories about them do it answers your questions about the gods much better than shitposting here would, as for the faith drop it, it's not a faith it's a philosophy.

A lot of anti-paganist think paganism only refers to Norse though, they never seem to learn it's more than that.

why lie so blatantly like this?
Tacitus had a generally very positive view of Germania and their customs.

No that's not human sacrifice that' sjudgement. Judgement is not an offering, but an offering is an offering. You dumbass

Don't feed the guy who is a thousand times smarter than our full of shit asses. You are the natsoc leaf, ain't ya?
The dude I have been destroying for DAYS?
Yeah, it's you...what a joke.
Ann is the biggest tripfag ever.

Paganism is the new punk rock!

I dont want to fuck some tree god wisps during a blue moon for spiritual power with incense everywhere and sacrificing my favorite cow.

Paganism is literally newage spirituality for white women.

neo-paganism is cringe tier

youtube.com/watch?v=hhkRQUtD_Jo

I don't ask anyone else to, infact I don't want you to.

We band together because we don't fear death.

You've invented this concept of a reward when you die, idiocy.

you are afraid to challenge things, to fight, all you do is fear.

We don't care, we will come back, we believe in reincarnation, so we don't fuck up the world and always fight.

There is no reason to not fight if you are a "pagan".

>Putting your faith in fallen angles and their cursed abominations.

Paganism (and most polytheism) is worshiping the defeated and the unrighteous seraphim that rebelled and were put down.
Your gods are in chains and their creations banished to hell.
move on or get left behind.

Paganism is STILL the counterculture for young white men, especially those that feel disgruntled and jaded as Kurt Cobain did after the Blue Whale Scandal.

>A pagan universalist
or literally just anthropology
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

>>called them all filthy barbarians that lived in mud huts and were drunken losers
what a total fucking lie, he was very positive about them, or at worst just objective.

>>never went to germany
it's a compilation of information from people who did, so it's perfectly valid

>my two cents
I add my 1 cent
>pot/kettle situation, as although they can at least access to an unbroken tradition like Catholicism
I think its a different situation, protestants seam to act extremely autistic.
This is because they have a non biblical belief that the bible is the only source for their faith.
They will autisticaly quote or repeat words from the bible while religions like catholicism have real ceremonies and traditions.

For example exorcism
in catholicism they have a whole ceremony and special words to say and act.
Protestants will quote over and over one like from the bible
>In Jesus name I cast out you demon
They can not adapt or move on, no new ceremonies only this one silly book.
And to make the whole thing even more absurd the ceremonies that are in the bible and are given instructions for are considerer to be obsolete
>Muh because the OT
So they are worthless garbage and wast of space in the bible.
And protestants have a non biblical believe system that the OT is non canon with no evidence whatsoever.
Its a pathetic shit show and every protestant who is not a atheist after 30 is mentally retarded/autistic in the extrema.

You don't fuck up the world, because your group is a powerless joke, that no one gives a shit about.
Africans contributed more to the world, than European pagans.

>Are your gods literally real? Or are they only pretend play stories?
Yes they exist.
>If they are real can you demonstrate them?
No.
>What happened to people who did not believe in them?
They don't care and the people don't care.
>How about the after life?
We all go to our respective family mound.
>Homosexuality
Don't care, it is up to one's family and tribe to determine what is acceptable.
>Abortion
Again I don't care. But do you really want murder affecting Wyrd.
>Transgender
That is a mental illness.

>.nd the crusades, had it not been for Christianity, would have wiped Europe off the face off the map.
yes, the Balts were going to MASSACRE CHRISTIANITY
Wends had fucking nukes, yes

>Paganism had already been wiped out, as the inferior ideology
how do you quantify this? By it's ability to bully people into it with absolutism, or with philosophical meaning and background?

>btw, I know when you say pagan, what you really mean is not Jew.
i really mean Indo-European pantheons

Judaism is younger than paganism by a few millennia, it was so influenced by proto-indo-european paganism, specifically Zoroastrianism long before it became Christianity and adopted pagan European traditions.

You are thinking only of objective reality. What the gods represent are metaphysical realities and truths. These are truths that relate to the nature of human experience, and how to act in a way that is in accordance with nature. Science can't give you behavorial or philosophical truths, because these things exist only in the human mind as concepts. However, that doesn't make them less true that what can be proven with physical evidence.

>Interesting so no after life, are all stories of Valhalla fabrications?
Learn to read.

>Do your gods have personalities ?
Yes. They are meta-archetypes. For instance, Hercules is very strong and robust but also clumsy and gets himself into lots of trouble. Think of how many people like this you have met in your life. Hercules is all of them.

>Did you speak with them in visions or out of body experiences?
They act through you, and you can act to honor them, but you don't see them. They are forces embodied by archetypes.

>How do you know of the number of gods or if you go their names right?
Irrelevant. What matters is whether or not what the gods embody is understood, and if those things are in harmony with each other in a logical manner. The god is an aid to understanding how metaphysical forces interact with each other.

>Are they more human like (pop culture thor and zeus) or are they abstract forces (like magnetism)?
They are the embodiment of abstract forces. Just as you are when those forces act upon you.

>Ar their gods equally true or fake?
Yes.

>Are they different gods or the same ones under different names?
It depends on if those gods embody the same forces and truths.

>Can you use the power of different gods and start worshiping lets say Hindu gods like you do with Odin?
There is no need as long as there are equivalents within Norse paganism.

oh I agree with that, I should've mentioned that I really just consider Catholicism and eastern Orthodoxy as Christianity
the root itself of Protestantism in its revolving around sola scriptura is a denial of the supra individual nature of Christianity or really any legitimate religion itself
putting the individual as the sole interpreter of the book is an indirect affirmation of the individualism and of humanism which led to the current state of the west

>Lady Liberty is extremely close to a pagan goddess in practice, as she embodies that liberty and freedom that we readily sacrifice our youngest and best men and women for
Liberty and freedom are pagan god's at this point, fuck freedom and fuck liberty HEIL CHRIST
Think noble savage and not equal, when you see him more like someone like Common filth you understand his views on the germans, much like how CF admires how nigs hate fags Tacitucs admired certain traits about the Germans, but don't believe it was at all positive.

"One should not, however, think that Tacitus' portrayal of Germanic customs is entirely favorable; he notes a tendency in the Germanic people for what he saw as their habitual drunkenness, laziness, and barbarism, among other traits."
But either way every scholar and person that studied this period worth a fuck agrees HE NEVER MET A GERMAN AND NEVER WENT TO THE LANDS AND ALL OF THIS SHIT IS AT BEST SECOND HAND ACCOUNTS

>anthropology
Who knew I also worship the buddha because we both believe in vague metaphysical concepts and shit

>it's a compilation of information from people who did, so it's perfectly valid
>perfectly valid
Please never serve on a jury

The only thing worth responding to, is the first comment. HAd Christianity not taken root in Europe, then yes, ISlam, would have swept the memory of Europe, into the sea...because they would have been fighting pagans with no centralized defense. And Pagans DID war over Gods...holy crap....they invented this.
Aren't gonna let the leaf cool kid tell yuou what to do? Kudos. Sick of normies telling everyone how to behave.
It is always the dumbest people too.

>For example exorcism
in catholicism they have a whole ceremony and special words to say and act.
Protestants will quote over and over one like from the bible
>In Jesus name I cast out you demon
They can not adapt or move on, no new ceremonies only this one silly book.
And to make the whole thing even more absurd the ceremonies that are in the bible and are given instructions for are considerer to be obsolete
None of that is even remotely accurate

>Think noble savage and not equal, when you see him more like someone like Common filth you understand his views on the germans, much like how CF admires how nigs hate fags Tacitucs admired certain traits about the Germans, but don't believe it was at all positive.
>"One should not, however, think that Tacitus' portrayal of Germanic customs is entirely favorable; he notes a tendency in the Germanic people for what he saw as their habitual drunkenness, laziness, and barbarism, among other traits."
i never claimed that, just that he wasn't hateful of the Germanics and had some positive things to say.
That's in stark contrast to your original statement. he had some ill things to speak of Romans as well.
>But either way every scholar and person that studied this period worth a fuck agrees HE NEVER MET A GERMAN AND NEVER WENT TO THE LANDS AND ALL OF THIS SHIT IS AT BEST SECOND HAND ACCOUNTS
>>anthropology
>Who knew I also worship the buddha because we both believe in vague metaphysical concepts and shit
that's a strawman if i ever saw one
>>it's a compilation of information from people who did, so it's perfectly valid
>>perfectly valid
>Please never serve on a jury
you may be shocked to learn tat everything in the Bible isn't a primary source

>What about Christians is the Christian god true? Or is he something else?
From my limited understanding of Christianity, the Christian god appears to be a god of life, death, punishment, and wrath. He's sort of like the Fates or Norns combined with Hel/Hades/Pluto.

>How do you honor your gods?
By trying to embody the truths they represent as best I can, and better myself as a person. To become more god-like.

>Do you have ceremonies?
>How do you know what ceremonies to do and if they are right? (Do your gods literally talk to you?)
I don't currently engage in cermonies, but I may begin practising with others soon.

>What can be gained from the gods?
Understanding of the forces that manipulate us all, how to live in accordance with them, and become a better man.

>Can they grant powers D&D style or light manipulations of probability?
You can't bend them to your will if that's what you're asking.

>And finally how do you know your religion is true and not some fake self delusion?
You are using the wrong definition of truth. I know the things it represents are true because of human experience.

>The only thing worth responding to, is the first comment. HAd Christianity not taken root in Europe, then yes, ISlam, would have swept the memory of Europe, into the sea...because they would have been fighting pagans with no centralized defense.
so an abrahamic religion takes over Europe? how unfortunate
jokes aside, i like Christianity much more than Islam, but it's not exactly a world of difference like the native religions were
>And Pagans DID war over Gods...holy crap....they invented this.
examples? and i mean Indo-Europeans in Europe. Giving a bull to Tiwaz or Mars isn't the same as a war of religion.

what makes my second point not worth addressing? acting above it with no substance doesn't make you look smart.

>Do your gods have personalities ?
Sure they do, with their own desires and feelings.
>Did you speak with them in visions or out of body experiences?
No, I know about them through the stories I make for my children.
How do you know of the number of gods or if you go their names right?
See above.
>What is the relationship between the gods?
That is up to the Gods. Myths only exists to inform praxis.
>Do you have ceremonies?
I participate in rituals at my Hearth on behalf of my family. Ancestors and house spirit generally come first.
>What can be gained from the gods?
Anything I suppose. One could petition for good health or a bountiful harvest. Or simply to treat with Gods to increase their Maegen.

Do not call upon Gods to often though. It is rude.

ANOTHER THING, there are separate words in Greek and latin for offering and judgement. For execution and smiting and for a sacririce. Sacrifice means what any normie understand a sacrifice as which is favor and remission of sins. Judgement is simply getting rid of evil in your society, this is not the same thing as putting away God's wrath.

If you don't know that European tribes warred with all the other tribes, over their Gods, then you need to do more research...and I am no longer trying to be a dick...I hear actual curiosity out of you.
The second question blowed, because the answer to the first question, answered the second.
I can prove it was a shitty ideology, that was doomed to lose, because it DID, and because our ancestors would have been totally destroyed continuing with paganism.
I like paganism, just like the truth more. btw...I see Christianity as pagan.
It is NOT a monotheistic religion, no matter how har they try to make it so.
Christianity has more in common with Odinism, than Judaism...this is INFINITELY provable.

They are rolemodels and guidelines to live by and understand the world you cuck. They seem almost human, because they are manfestations of ideals

I'm not a pagan, but i defend the cultural importance of them and practice a philosophy with pagan origins, so I'll answer but know that I'm not a *real* pagan
>1) Are your gods literally real? Or are they only pretend play stories?
they're stories and concepts that real or not, connect us to the very begin of our ethnicity as an entity, and later provide the background for beautiful and reasoned works of thought
>If its all pretend play why bother?
because like Shinto, you don't need to believe it to celebrate it for it's history and uniqueness.
>2) If they are real can you demonstrate them?
nah
>What happened to people who did not believe in them?
depends, but in general IIRC it was a judgment on your life lived, may of the pantheons were a bit pantheistic, Mars was Tiw was Ares, if you see where I'm going
>How about the after life? What is the theology? Do you have anything?
you'll need to read on a specific variant
>3) The only thing I ever have seen from paganis are vague hippie level stupidities (prove me wrong and post something substantial) like:
>>its like the faith of our ancestors man
>And our ancestors did not have the internet or electricity.
see above
>So why adopt their believes about Odin and not their technological level?
>>Its like in your blood man
>More non-substantial crap see above.
see above
>4) Bonus round give your pagan positions on
>>Homosexuality
don't need anything supernatural to see it's a perversion
>>Abortion
a shame
>>Transgender
a perversion

>i never claimed that, just that he wasn't hateful of the Germanics and had some positive things to say.
>That's in stark contrast to your original statement. he had some ill things to speak of Romans as well.
That's why the Common filth comparison works so well, tacitus hated Rome for it's decadence and depravity, and admired the idea of monogamous relationships and had respect for their ferocity in battle in a time where most of romes armies weren't romans
>that's a strawman if i ever saw one
My point is that just because religions form on the same continent from the same racial group it doesn't mean they are the same, there are similarities but there are also similarities in non European pagan cultures, hell it's theorized that Odin wasn't originally a Norse god and was instead a Scythian god, let's not forget the romans pertinacity to adopt non roman gods (mithras I'm looking at you) that one could argue might not have been 100% white.
>you may be shocked to learn tat everything in the Bible isn't a primary source
You may be shocked to learn that not everything in the bible happened, some of it are just stories with a message.
But you are correct some of the books in the bible were passed down orally, it got bad to the point where Christians got together to hash out what was bullshit and what was actually real, discarding several heretical books of the bible. Something you don't really see in other religions

Paganism has God tier hats, and masks. Fashion is definitely top 3 religious fashions. That's the only reason I like it,

>1
So we are in the "these are only fictional stories" camp right?
>Jesus
I don't think anyone even understood what Jesus was talking about. Even in the bible his apostles (who wrote the bible and maintained his religion) didn't have one idea what Jesus was all about see the scenes before Jesus is taken by the soldiers.

And all Jesus seamed was
>Are you ready for the kingdom of god?
>The kingdom of god is coming!
>Don't you know the kingdom of god is around the corner?

The space that is wasted for these adverts is astonishing and no one understood what this kingdom even is.
Zero communication skills Jesus was a simple mentally ill greedy cult leader.

Then there is literally a handful of one liners about things:
>Jesus' pacifism.
Is literally suicidal if practiced you can never hit back or have a army something conservatives ignore and don't really follow.

Shit I started talking about Christianity once more.

-----------------

Can you tell me these great lessons?
Why not use all myths from all religions?

And there is the fact that most Greek myths in pop culture are neo-pagan Disney level distortions.
Example the Trojan hose is a great story however its neo pagan AKA taking a old myth and distorting it into something else
Original myth
>No one was stupid enough to take the hours however oracle did get a vision that they need to accept it because the gods demand it so they did and got slaughtered.

The Greek gods are capricious bastards who will sometimes punish humans for no reason whatsoever or for the LULZ they ship ships and you sacrifice to them in hopes you can buy their favor and not get your ships destroyed if we are talking about Poseidon. Sometimes Poseidon sinks your ship even if you gave him sacrifice because he is a bastard.

>1) Are your gods literally real? Or are they only pretend play stories?
Not play stories. But real? Don't know. They're in there - maybe aspects of the unconscious or some shit. You can communicate with them. What their ontological status is is a mystery.

>2) If they are real can you demonstrate them?
Not in any way that has public currency.
>What happened to people who did not believe in them?
Ultimately? Who knows. Experientially? They didn't have the experience of communicating with the gods
>How about the after life?
Don't know
>What is the theology? Do you have anything?
Don't know.

>3) The only thing I ever have seen from paganis are vague hippie level stupidities (prove me wrong and post something substantial) like:
>its like the faith of our ancestors man
And our ancestors did not have the internet or electricity. So why adopt their believes about Odin and not their technological level?
I don't follow you question
>Its like in your blood man
It literally is.

>4) Bonus round give your pagan positions on
>Homosexuality
Permissible but should be disprivileged. Useful in a shamanic context.
>Abortion
Child murder. Individual choice.
>Transgender
See homosexuality.

>Are your gods literally real?
I honestly don't know. I guess you could say I am polytheistic agnostic. If there is anything more to existence than this universe we observe and this life in it, I believe there would more likely be multiple "gods" as opposed to one.

>If they are real can you demonstrate them?
No, of course not. Any pagan claiming to have magical ability is probably just a swindler. At best, he does too many drugs.

>(prove me wrong and post something substantial)
Some words from The Hávamál:

Not all sick men are utterly wretched:
Some are blessed with sons,
Some with friends,
some with riches,
Some with worthy works.

The halt can manage a horse,
the handless a flock,
The deaf be a doughty fighter,
To be blind is better than to burn on a pyre:
There is nothing the dead can do.

It is always better to be alive,
The living can keep a cow.
Fire, I saw, warming a wealthy man,
With a cold corpse at his door.

A son is a blessing, though born late
To a father no longer alive:
Stones would seldom stand by the highway
If sons did not set them there.

>give your pagan positions on
>Homosexuality
Who cares.
>Abortion
Women can always kill the baby inside them, no matter the law or the available doctors. There is no stopping them. Even if you made abortion a punishable crime for the woman, they can make it look like miscarriage. Reality bites sometimes.
>Transgender
Who cares.

I'm Catholic but...
So why should anyone ever believe in paganism?

Here are some questions:
1) Is your god literally real? Or is he only pretend a play story?

If its all pretend play why bother?

2) If He is real can you demonstrate Him?
What happens to people who did not believe in Him?
How about the after life? What is the theology? Do you have anything?
3) The only thing I ever have seen from Christians are vague hippie level stupidities (prove me wrong and post something substantial) like:
>its like the faith of our ancestors man
And our ancestors did not have the internet or electricity.
So why adopt their believes about God and not their technological level?
>Its like in your blood man
More non-substantial crap see above.

4) Bonus round give your Christian positions on
>Homosexuality

It goes both ways, people can believe in what they want, with the exception of violent sandcoons that are prone to spontaneous combustion, they need to be eradicated with extreme prejudice

>If you don't know that European tribes warred with all the other tribes, over their Gods, then you need to do more research...and I am no longer trying to be a dick...I hear actual curiosity out of you.
firstly, I'm a /his/fag extraordinaire and that's why i ask you because my studies have shown me that they didn't have wars of purely religious nature.
secondly, thank you, I'd love to discuss
>I can prove it was a shitty ideology, that was doomed to lose, because it DID, and because our ancestors would have been totally destroyed continuing with paganism.
like Hinduism in the face of Islam? like Buddhism in Burma facing Islam?
i see it as an absolutist religion unafraid of killing to achieve it's aims and holding a theology that basically held a gun to a dissenter's head. not that it was particularly worthy in it's theology, only that it was strong in it's approach.
.It is NOT a monotheistic religion, no matter how har they try to make it so.
Christianity has more in common with Odinism, than Judaism...this is INFINITELY provable.
can you elaborate? the God of the New Testament is a trinitarian version of the YHWH of the Old Testament.
God as the Logos is the part i respect and why i think Christianity is leagues ahead of it's brothers, and that everything to do in SPITE of it's origins, not because of them which begs why it should be there at all.

>weird-ass pre-Aryan folk beliefs
nifty, but not as cool as IE pantheons.

Continued

Hercules for example was utterly hated by Hera, no not the neo-pagan stories the actual myths are about Hera actually giving Hercules madness and he killed his friends in this magic madness on multiple occasions and lamented afterworlds.
He was a tragic tortured character.
Hated by a goddess simply because of the way he was born.

>3.The pagans have accomplished a lot, see the Roman empire and Greek philosophy.

oh you don't want to go this way because Christians did a lot of things like invent modern medicine or science.

>4.
>Trans
Literally modern invention, impossible in history.
Sex reassignment surgeries don't grow on trees.

> they're going to exist in the world regardless of the main religion
So will thieves ,rapists and murderers and traitors and all criminals, do we also ignore them?
You line of reasoning looks terribly flawed.

It sure smells like summer in here!

A general notice to all human beings on Sup Forums, schools out in the US!

brasse your self for influx of Summer kids!


Thank you for your attention. stay safe.

misstyped
>It is NOT a monotheistic religion, no matter how har they try to make it so.
>Christianity has more in common with Odinism, than Judaism...this is INFINITELY provable.
can you elaborate? the God of the New Testament is a trinitarian version of the YHWH of the Old Testament.
God as the Logos is the part i respect and why i think Christianity is leagues ahead of it's brothers, and that everything to do in SPITE of it's origins, not because of them which begs why it should be there at all.

>I love to see a explanation of what you understand under the word metaphysical and how you connect to it.
Metaphysical truths are truths that cannot be explained physically. Physical truths are mostly in the realm of fact. Metaphysical truths aren't numbers or statistics or measurements, but concepts and ways of being. Man is not a machine. He doesn't operate solely on cold, hard logic and mathematics. He has a soul, or, at the very least, a conscience. Metaphysical truths deal with laws of behavior that elevate or diminish the condition of one's experience of life. Just as an example, any normal person experiences feelings of guilt if they lie to a friend for their own selfish gain. Thus it is a metaphysical truth that lying diminishes your living experience and the condition of your conscience. Living an honest life, conversely, elevates your life experience and raises your mode of living.

>This explained a lot keep it up.
There are certain truths to romantic/sexual behavior. Homosexuality cannot produce life, therefore it can be nothing but self-indulgent and only engaged in for the sake of pleasure. This undermines the greater function of sex, perverting it from a way to bring life into the world to a mere indulgence. The anus also isn't made for sex, so it is a misuse of the physical body as well. That said, pleasure is an inseparable component of sex, but it is a component, not a whole. And by removing the other component entirely, you are acting against natural truths.

>I'm a pagan worshiper but I don't realize it.

>oh you don't want to go this way because Christians did a lot of things like invent modern medicine or science.
not him, but this would have almost certainly happened regardless of the dominant religion, Greco-Roman pagans didn't exactly stall science.

>Homosexuality cannot produce life, therefore it can be nothing but self-indulgent and only engaged in for the sake of pleasure.
Come on now straight people like to get it on without making babies too. The natural truth of a man's erection will guide him where it will. If it guides him to other men I say who cares? It's his business.

>Stones would seldom stand by the highway
If sons did not set them there.

Oh.....

>forgive me, my friend, not for what I have done, but for what I am about to do

Straight sex always has the potential to produce life. Homosexual sex never has the potential to produce life. It is reducing a whole to a part of the whole. There is nothing wrong with the part itself when it is a part of the whole, but that part is not a whole in itself.

Your holy trinity comes from the druids. It was a way to make the local populace accapt Christianity faster.

>Thor
>blonde
>no copper read beard

shiggy

Pagans are the ultimate cucks. Paganism has been dead for centuries and the "neo pagans" are basically just LARPers. The actual theology of pagan religions is long gone and all that's left is the mythology and stories, which is not enough to learn how to practice a religion from.
>honoring muh ancestors
Your ancestors converted to Christianity. They were perfectly happy with Christianity for many centuries, but for some reason you need to be a special little snowflakes and Christianity isn't good enough for you.

I just wanted to share this, even though it is something I don't believe personally. I was born Jewish, and therefore have to tell you all, that the Talmud, says that Jesus was the bastard son of Roman Centurion, named Pandera, or PAntera. The Talmud refers to Jesus, as Yeshua bin Pandera. So all of you saying you know for sure, Jesus wasn't white....you might be wrong.
Nobody fights over PURELY theistic reasons...that is always a lie....I think this might be your in-group bias, on this one. Most Gods, were just constructs, to help the tribe survive etc.
The trinity is a lie bro. Not in the Bible...catholics made it up.
Jesus, identifies Judaism as the enemmy of Christianity, he is the warrior prophesied to destroy his enemies, and he carries a hammer.
God, is the God of War, the Father, he God of many masks....Odin.
The New Testament actually sys there is no such thing as Jewish, that the Antichrist will be a JEw...etc,etc, etc, Most of what you know of the Bible, is likely a lie.

>Your holy trinity comes from the druids
are we talking about the Galatians then? Very interesting theory desu.