Boot Camp question

What would happen if you defy authority in let's say a US Army or Marine Boot Camp?

Like if they tell you to drop and do 50 push ups and you say, fuck off? What would happen? Are they (Drill Sergeant/Instructor) allowed to hit you or in any way be physically violent?

What's to stop someone from breaking the rules and not obeying the orders (however asinine they may be) and making the Drill Sergeant/Instructor look like a fool?

Let's say everyone else saw that private tell his superior to "fuck off" after he said do 50 push ups, how would they deal with that? How scary and intimidating can these guys really be if they can't use physical violence (which I assume is the case these days)?

This is just a hypothetical question, I'm sure anyone who actually wanted to join these armed forces wouldn't outright disobey their superior like this, but I'm just wondering how it would be dealt with, and the ramifications that would arise in the way it was dealt with, like if it didn't intimidate other privates into line.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=q-Ae-eGOgxI
abcnews.go.com/US/muslim-marine-clothes-dryer-instructor-asked-terrorist/story?id=42071520
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Off to /k/ you go

I imagine they would give you massive extra work to do for it and if you kept it up would be kicked out

I mean can they really threaten you with anything other than kicking you out of the military?

Instructor is harder on other cadets. Problem solves itself.

Bump I'm actually interested what they can do as well

>What's to stop someone from breaking the rules and not obeying the orders (however asinine they may be) and making the Drill Sergeant/Instructor look like a fool?
>leavenworth

4:00 bong marines need to learn how to shower
youtube.com/watch?v=q-Ae-eGOgxI

probably not today in the pussified modern era of integrated gi jane and joe soldiers

but yeah if you tried that shit back in nam or ww2 youd get your teeth kicked in by a drill sgt and everyone you complained to would say you deserved it

Are you implying the privates would beat up the insubordinate a la Full Metal Jacket? And the Drill Sergeant/Instructors would condone it or look the other way?

OP gets soap in a sock that night

duh

Nothing. Stop fantasizing about someone else making you diet and exercise for you. They yell and if you're serious they get you for refusing to train or just separate you.

Not implying.. stating fact

Yes but, is this REALLY accepted? Is there nowhere to report abuse like this? I'm sure in this day in age there would HAVE to be some way to report something like this.

Not even fucking around, you can be charged as a criminal for failing to follow orders

>Failure to obey the lawful order of one not a superior is an offense under Article 92(2), provided the accused had a duty to obey the order, such as one issued by a sentinel or a member of the armed forces police. ... (1) Violation or failure to obey lawful general order or regulation.

Most of the time if you can't go further you can quit respectfully and get honorably discharged. If you fuck around and get smart though, you could potentially face jail time + charges

You can refuse to train.
While you're boot camp, you still have the legal right to leave because you haven't graduated and thus haven't been properly inducted into service. Your contract will then be void.

It isn't easy tho -- you literally have to say "I refuse to train"..after which time your DS and CO will speak with you privately regarding your decision and try to talk you out of it.

Only the weak do not finish what they start by choice.

>become brotherhood
>be burden on brotherhood
t. You

Not smart. Your faggot ass is getting stomped.

You see OP, it's not the Drill Sergeants you have to worry about pissing off, its the other people in your platoon.
If the Drill Sergeants cant cajole you into obedience, they punish your platoon mates.
And your platoon mates will only put up with that bullshit for so long before they do what the drill sergeants can't do- put hands on you.
And when it gets to that point, the DS will wait until your platoon doles out that harsh punishment, before they come in and make it stop.
So if you don't think you can follow some very simple orders for 9 weeks or 12 or whatever it is now, you'd do well not to enlist to begin with.
>t. ex artillery mechanic

Enjoy your Article 15, faggot

Those other men and women rely on each other. One causes the group to suffer will be quarantined. Its human nature. whether right of wrong you are not there to think freely.

WWII and Vietnam were both drafts. Many recruits were not there by choice. WWII had levels of patriotism America will never see again.

Our current military is ALL volunteers. If you were in basic and refused to do shit, you would be yelled at, disciplined in some way, and eventually out-processed and sent home. The end.

They throw you in the brig you ignorant shit.

You won't make it. Stop dreaming

They use peer pressure to make you comply. The first time you tell them that you're not going to do 20 pushups, or whatever, they say "Recruit user doesn't want to do any pushups, so I guess the rest of you 60 guys can just do double the amount, in order to make up for him." And you will eventually (and correctly) fear for your life in the middle of the night if you continue to refuse to train, etc.

yes, it happens

army fag here, did basic in 2002

we had one jackoff that was so self fucking righteous and full of himself, he would give lip to the DI all the time, and just outright refuse to do some stuff

one night, everyone ganged up around him (i didnt because im a naturally unaggressive person, i just watched), they started yelling at him, shoving him around, and landing a few punches on him, but never in places that would show outside the uniform

the guy was too scared of going to the DI about it because he had made an enemy of him, and everybody ostracized him

i suggest you read up on the effects of shunning and social outcasting; the effects of it, as human beings are a social animal, are tremendously pronounced and drive a lot of people in practicing communities (such as amish) to suicide

also this doesnt belong in Sup Forums

Back in the day, the Drill Instructors could knock your punk ass the fuck out for insubordination if they wanted to. Then when you woke up, they'd shove your sorry ass on the ground and force you to do push-ups while they planted their boot in the small of your back. And if they really wanted to fuck with you, they'd light a cigar and blow smoke in your face, while forcing you do push-ups with their boot planted in the small of your back.

>Are they (Drill Sergeant/Instructor) allowed to hit you or in any way be physically violent?
Not anymore but they can do something worse: take you to court and you'll have at best a dishonorable discharge.

If you absolutely refused? You'd get kicked out. You wouldn't refuse though.

Sounds like tales from the holocaust tier tall tales

You lose your job if you make a big enough deal of it.

Their are punishments they can impose on you, but they are all voluntary on your part; Clean something, carry something, have to do extra work.

If you just say nope, nope, nope. You will get put into a release holding unit and get kicked out.

If you physically leave then you are committing a crime and will be legally punished.

At the point of basic training if you just flat out don't want to be there and don't want to do the training you get to leave but you need to follow the rules to the degree that you must properly finish your release.

Now if you are drafted that's totally different.

They can't hit you or use violent force that's a crime.

After basic training however, everything changes and you will be legally punished and can see jail time. During basic they will let you leave.

If you want to join but don't want to do what you are told or any other violations they will fail you, try to retrain you, then kick you out.

humans will take all kinds of punishment by their peers to not be ostracised by the group

This. The main motivations in basic training are sleep and work avoidance. By exploiting these, a drill sergeant can control a whole group with his authority.

I didn't see much of this when I was in the the Army, but it did happen. A lot of these dudes are from broken homes or shit situations or just plain dumb, they seek attention and challenge authority. Group punishment, extra duty, and lowering of status were effective. The degree of punishment i believe depends on the MOS (job) training, enlisted vs. officer, and world conflict status.

They're not "allowed" to anymore.

I had a buddy in marine boot cam0 tell me a story about how after a recruit spat at him he took him behind the dumpsters or some fucking place the cameras couldn't see him and kicked the shit out of him.

That's it, they'd break you by punishing your peers.

And the gas chamber doors were made out of wood and swung inwards.

And we are never to question why that would never work

Night night user

You get beaten with socks that are filled with bars of soap in the middle of the night.

Why do you care so much? The best way to make it through bmt is stay incognito and don't let your instructors notice you. If your drill doesn't know your name by the end then you succeeded. Also if the drills have enough of your shit they'll just kick you out immediately, it's not like they're extremely desperate for soldiers atm.

Nope. Uncle was Marine during Vietnam. He says he lipped off to the DI one day in boot camp, and says the last thing he remembers is seeing a fist coming from the left and laying his ass right out. When he woke up, the DI made him do push-ups while blowing cigar smoke in his face and putting his boot in the small of his back.

They'll punish everyone else. And it won't stop until you sort your shit out or sign leaving paperwork.

They might not hit you but they will thrash you all night long, with physical exercise and more creative fuck arounds.

Some might not give a fuck and just hit you

>Yes but, is this REALLY accepted?
It's not. The military for all it's stupidity knows the value of people that follow regulations and laws. People that think it's okay to break the rules but only when it's "really, really justified" are expensive and dangerous hazards to keep around.

They can also take your pay and throw you in a jail cell. When you join the military you become subject to a new set of laws in addition to civilian law. Insubordination in the military is a crime

They dont have to break you. Just program you. You are no longer you, but part of a machine if you will.Each instructor has a quota of quality grads they must meet. Such as recruiters. The accountability is there for productive training for the right instructor. Op is posting about a somewhat extreme situation. A good instructor will push you and members of your group to be the best single unit possible.

No, they can't do shit

But what they can and will do is make the lives of your fellow recruits so fucking miserable that they will turn to violence, no doubt giving you the beating of a lifetime.

Frankly, if you are even thinking of such things as you outlined in your OP then the military is simply not the place for you.

Best answer. Fuck around in the US army enough, even as a recruit you might earn a trip to Forty Levy

I went through basic. They don't reprogram you man. It's the military, not the CIA.

They taught us table manners and how to apply anti-persperant and how to use an iron.

You would be amazed by how stupid some human beings are.

>Vietnam
Mite b true

It would be the dumbest thing you could fucking do, but more than likely you would be kicked out. With that you'll never be allowed to try for any military branch ever. You're out for good.

Don’t they though? No single person is as effective as a group of like minded individuals working together as one single unit. You missed my point of quality graduates.

Coast Guard here
In our boot camp if you refused to follow orders you would either get reverted or you would be processed for seperation, you would also be slave labor for months before you are released and depending on the discharge you wod not ever be able to work for the government. Aka you are fucked

UCMJ

In basic however, if you are a total scumbag, they just hold you back and make you repeat it. If you keep being resistant, they just kick you out of the military with either: OTH discharge, Entry-level discharge, or bad conduct discharge.

All 3 fuck you out of benefits, show up on a background check, and pretty much fuck you for life.

Generally peer pressure and HYPE keeps you mostly in line, at least until you get out of basic

I have a degree in applied math

Should I join the Navy/Marines? I live in San Diego so it's an obvious choice on the branches

This. If one person in the company fucks up, everyone else picks up the slack.

Also this, the DI doesn't have to hit you because everyone else will if they are always getting punished for you being a fag.

If you are smart join the Coast Guard best decision of my life. I have friends in both the Navy and Marines and I can tell you they hate their life's.

Basic military training is harsh on two types of people.

1: Those strange people totally unsuited for military life, or stress, or anything like military service. But who for some reason join.

They get crushed out of the system and go on to civilian life. Borderline cases learn a bit and head off to support trades.

2: People that think being disrespected is a terrible offense and can't be tolerated. Who think that their high school sports team was important.

They get to suffer all the mind games that the military has learned and like a retarded mouse fall for everything. Most of them can learn to chill out and focus on their main job and can over time become productive members of the military.

#1 was me but you can do it if you get with the program and not give up.

Thanks, but any specifics?
I have a friend in his 3rd year at the CGA, I'll have to have a chat with him

Or ANYTHING involved with the government, federal or local.

CGA is a joke
Enlisted life is awesome though with your degree you may be able to get a commission though OCS.

And you're not going to tell the military police to fuck off. You can if you like, but it won't stop them taking you by force.

>I have friends in both the Navy and Marines

Do they make fun of you for being in the Coast Guard?

What's training like when it comes to special forces like the SEALS and Delta?

Specifics, BAH off the bat at E2 almost anywhere you go Station wise, great jobs, crazy awesome duty stations. 2000$ starting bonus just for graduating.

They don't reprogram you you fucking dumb nigger.
They get you to obey some very simple shit in Basic/Boot, and than some very simple tasks like cleaning up after yourself.
When I was done for the day(after Basic/AIT), I spent it like most faggots here- playing vidja/ DnD, going to movies, and discussing politics (most people in are conservative, but there are plenty of "moderate" libfags like me)

It's not near as cultish as some of the cults my parents joined when I was a kid.

I'm worried that if I just get commissioned right away, I won't be "respected". I don't mean that in the macho man sense, but I mean that I don't want to be some fag bossing people who know more than me around. I wouldn't feel up to it (not sure if this is a common worry)

Navy buddy does
I have never met a squared away Marine make fun of us Coasties

I don't think you'll find anyone with that type of experience posting here tbqh.

I'm not trying to sound like a bad ass but I didn't think it was that bad. A lot of it sucked, but I just kept my eye on the goal. Learned two things that have stuck with me. 1) You can do it if you want to. 2) If you're in charge, no decision is worse than a bad decision.

What do you guys even do? I would assume like search and rescue for people in ship wrecks in our waters, but outside of that, what?

Would you be our first line of defense at sea or something during an invasion?

What is the point of Coast Guard when we have the Navy? Is it basically like the National Guard but for water?

You earn respect.
It's a mutual trust but because your an Ens out of OCS pairing yourself up with a chief and people who will show you the ropes helps determine your Tagrectori.

If you come in anywhere acting as if you own the place people won't like you.
As an officer though, we are your underlings not necessarily friends.

Well you must be right as I am now a nigger. Ohhh I forgot you are an expert and must be right. Guess ill cuck off to my corner and continue to watch you get your ass BTFO. Sad day.............

I've got some buddies in SASR

Basically selection courses are incredibly hard but no one is pushing you. You need to be self motivated and show that you will run through a brick wall to get in, and that you never quit under the most extreme adversity.

After that during the training cycle, you can be removed at any time if you aren't meeting standards or getting along with the others. Then you get to the unit, the training wheels come off but you are still on probation for some time.

Everyone in those kinds of units wants to be there and has worked fucking hard to be there so they just get on with the job. There is no need to fuck them around for retraining purposes because they've already been selected for what they are.

It's just a wash out system with lots of extra stress put on the body.

Think of it like this, in basic training everyone in the military needs to pass it.

From infantry, armor and combat engineers, to cooks, clerks and fuel tech.

Trades training is trying to weed out people that can pass basic training and go on to be a clerk but can't cut it as part of the combat arms. Or people that can pass basic training for infantry but aren't able to be a fuel tech.

Different jobs focus on different things.

The SF training is taking guys that have been in the military for a while, and are generally smart and fit enough to pass but like a great government job need to weed out 95% of the applicants. Not that 90% wouldn't be viable SF soldiers. They just don't have the room for all of them.

So they need a system that can screen out people but won't make the requirements pointlessly high. For example most nursing programs require calculus because it weeds out lots of applicants. It has nothing to do with nursing but it's a good filter in the mind of the school.

The SF don't want a useless filter so they focus on something that is important which is physical ability. They run that hard enough to weed out people but not pointlessly excluding anyone.

You can't fail out of the training for the SF once you have been accepted to try. You can only quit.

Special jurisdiction to board ships
Maritime Security
ICE OPS
Fishing Enfocement
Search and Rescue
Aids and Navigation
Law Enforcement
Ship inspections and a lot more
The Navy needs us to do boarding as they don't have the jurisdiction without it being an act of war
We are also in the middle East protecting high value assets
We have people in every content

Basic is easy as shit.

Everyone needs to pass basic so it's not so hard.

Trades training depending on your trade is when it gets hard. And by hard I mean super annoying.

>an expert
I'd say my 4 years of experience trumps your no years of experience.
Here's your (((you)))

They are police with boats. And because they can't 'call for backup' have enough firepower to meet anything short of an actual warship head on.

>Fishing Enfocement

Lol what? You mean like stopping people from trying to catch endangered fish or something?

The Coast Guard sounds like the Water Police desu, doesn't sound like it should be grouped in with the other 4 armed forces.

Also yes we are the first line of defense of our nation's special economic zones, ports and waterways and our natural resources.

Thanks, I saved your post to remember it

You obviously have not seen our National Security Cutters

Does it.. You made it 4 yrs. Someone had to teach your dumbass something and im sure it was not that whore of a mom that shit you out or drunk dad that swears the best part of you ran down that cunts leg.

You're embarrassing yourself. But you probably enjoy that since you're namefagging.

you seem to be awful salty about being called a nigger.
really makes me think....

That is one component, fishing is a huge economy we protect our natural resources
we do have a different mission than our fellow branches, we also do far more with way less.

I believe it. Every Marine on line that talks about Bootcamp says the same things my Marine friend says. Which is videos about Bootcamp are super watered down, and all the shit people in the olden days of the military talked about regarding fucking people up and physical punishment are all still true. They just don't happen when the cameras are rolling.

Just calling out the dipshits

Stopping foreign ships from raping your fisheries? Here it's done by the navy

like wise nigger namefag

No anti ship missile or anti air missile load. It's not fighting a warship.
The aircraft don't have anti submarine weapons or any weapons.

Nice RADAR though.

I don't know the Aussy Navy
I know the USN has to have a coast guard unit on their ships to do any boarding or it would be considered an act of war.

We have something in common then. Why not opt out. I promise I will follow you.

You get fragged.

Different mission, also our 378 and 420 have the ability to be equiped with missles our new Ice breaker might have them too.

...

>Are they (Drill Sergeant/Instructor) allowed to hit you or in any way be physically violent?

no, but they will.

abcnews.go.com/US/muslim-marine-clothes-dryer-instructor-asked-terrorist/story?id=42071520

Varies on the point of service. When I was in the military I hated lateness(unless for a legitimate reason). Especially the regiment I was in. My standard routine was single them out, take them to my office and have a candid word with them about standards. Then asked them to up their game with a few words of encouragement. Then ended 'i don't want to see you in here for this again'.

All but one of people this happened with changed their behaviour after this.

The one offender it happened with, I denied leave, put extra jobs on, for a giggle got him to write a 5000 word essay on my lateness with reference to some random book.

He was great for about a year but once again late, poor excuse. So I denied leave for all the boys. One had a wedding and was pissed right off. The lad fell over in the woods while on run.

After boring drills and cleaning and recleaning all while being constantly reminded it was because of this guys lateness I had booked taxis for everyone (but the guy) to get into town etc.

After that he wasn't late again.

Old corps would either beat the shit out of you themselves or be extra hard on your platoon mates.
If your platoon doesn't like you then you have a bunch of jacked up guerrilla's wanting to punish you.
I'll bet you can imagine what their punishment is like.
>soap in socks
I've also seen burying a guy up to his neck out on the camouflage training grounds and covering him in leaves.
It depends per branch. I wouldn't know seeing as how Marines don't have special forces. Because we're already the best.

The ego.

My opinion is the only opinion.

The stupidity. Your opinion actually means anything.