NEWARK — The word “pilgrimage” usually evokes visions of far-off, exotic places, but for some 100 gay and lesbian Catholics and their families, a pilgrimage to the Cathedral Basilica of the Sacred Heart here on a recent Sunday was more like a homecoming.
The doors to the cathedral were opened to them, and they were welcomed personally by the leader of the Archdiocese of Newark, Cardinal Joseph W. Tobin. They were seated on folding chairs at the cathedral’s center, in front of the altar in the towering sanctuary, under the blue-tinted glow of stained glass.
“I am Joseph, your brother,” Cardinal Tobin told the group, which included lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Catholics from around New York and the five dioceses in New Jersey. “I am your brother, as a disciple of Jesus. I am your brother, as a sinner who finds mercy with the Lord.”
The welcoming of a group of openly gay people to Mass by a leader of Cardinal Tobin’s standing in the Roman Catholic Church in this country would have been unthinkable even five years ago. But Cardinal Tobin, whom Pope Francis appointed to Newark last year, is among a small but growing group of bishops changing how the American church relates to its gay members. They are seeking to be more inclusive and signaling to subordinate priests that they should do the same.
I think the assumption that they were hateful before says a lot about your own prejudices.
Noah Butler
As a devout Catholic, this sickens me.
Jaxon Roberts
I can't wait the Cathlocucks fall. Protestantism remains the superior religion.
Luis Allen
Yes, I hear the priests wear condoms now when they fuck little boys
Jeremiah Ortiz
No, they're selling out their virtues to buy into the 3rd-world donations. Pic related.
Oliver Perez
>Shame
Parker Torres
Guess I'm converting to Eastern Orthodoxy
Oliver Torres
i noticed this shit too lmfao, also the high sparrow is pure marxist but replaced with' the gods'
Adrian Lopez
The Catholic Church voted to end their existence at Vatican II, so that the modern "Catholic Church" is nothing but a wing of the modern Revolution/a den of faggots. Look to Evola and Neoplatonism, and leave the "Catholic Church" to the history books.
Alexander Sanchez
says the muslim lol
Noah Evans
There's a difference in being welcoming and performing gay marriages. Have they actually said homosexuality isn't a sin yet?
Brody Ramirez
Islam and Protestantism have a lot in common actually. A very interesting subject to research
David Ortiz
Nothing about Church teaching has changed. Active homosexuals are in mortal sin. No ifs, no buts, it's as clear as it ever was.
Nolan Miller
wellaware1(dot)com
Connor Parker
I want to be a Christian, but I hate literally every Christian on earth. What do?
Nolan Anderson
Protestants are going to hell
William Rivera
>Nothing about Church teaching has changed Wrong. Quite a bit changed in 1965
Sebastian Davis
No dogma still stands which stands for the real Church. The fake Church has different teachings
Kevin Diaz
A fag is created at conception when a man butt-fucks a woman and the shit-sperm combination drips into the vagina, causing a pregnancy. This is why homosexuals are fascinated with shit, and like to fuck other men's shit pipe. It's a sort of homecoming for them.
Christopher Mitchell
>No dogma still stands which stands for the real Church. Depends on what you mean by that. But yeah, I guess there is a very small number of true Catholics if you only count sedevacantists.
John Brooks
This
Cameron Perez
>no longer White This is in relation to the Semitic Desert Religion that liberally stole elements of Pagan culture to create a bizarre pan-White cult, right?
Alexander Lee
Sedevacantists and Old SSPX are the true Church. They follow what real Popes teach like St.Pius V says and councils. I personally attend a Church with a Ex-SSPX priest who left because SSPX wants union with Rome. Honestly one of the few who are actually going to Heaven and merit much when they die
Evan Fisher
If you get your information about V2 from sede sites, your information is guaranteed to be full of shit. I remember browsing one major sede site and IMAGINE MY SHOCK when I saw all the outrageous lies about popes JP2 and B16 they posted to the extent that there's no way they weren't propagating lies in full knowledge about doing so. Which means the sedes might as well be run by atheists, Jews, Muslims, or Protestards who want to destroy the Catholic Church in its entirety. That's the people you go to for your ideas about the Church. Well, those sites and the mainstream media of course because you like the narrative the MSM puts out about how the Church is becoming liberal and progressive. That's because you have no real stake in it as you don't really believe in any of it, you just an edgy LARPer choosing some radical conservative meme-tier rubbish to cling onto.
Also a daily reminder that the vast majority of accusations aimed at the Church with regard to V2 is full of falsehood and misunderstanding. Again a sign that a lot of people will believe their own prejudices rather than investigate what V2 really teaches and what it changed if anything.
Charles Johnson
What the fuck happened to my Church?
Charles Edwards
>one of the few who are actually going to Heaven and merit much when they die unless you are in receipt of divine revelation, do not suggest that you or any of us can know the condition of one's soul
Nolan Williams
>Protestants You mean the Heathens who have Fag Priests and Woman Priests?
Liam Collins
I wouldn't mind joining that, except it seems unreasonable that God would allow the vast majority of his church to fall into heresy while presenting as the true church, and be without a real pope for decades with no signs of this state of affairs reversing.
Landon Ross
>anecdote and (((websites))) as sources Literally, what?
Also, if you want less faggotry in the Church, push for it.
Zachary Reed
I'm glad the Catholic Church is starting to become more inclusive, but there are still many big steps to be taken. Women should be allowed priesthood, for example.
Jose Wood
No, I just read the actual documents of the second Vatican council. Sedevacantism is simply the only logically sound position regarding the state of the church.
Grayson Rodriguez
What does that mean?
Jaxson King
No the only way to Heaven is through sanctifying grace. Even if you get a divine revelation with no sanctifying grace you're going to hell
Ryan Peterson
I really hope you're not a Spaniard, Eurocuck.
Easton Robinson
Well this is not the first time the Church has been in a desperate state like this. I think in the 4th century during the Arian heresy 97% believed in what Arius taught instead of the Church's official teaching. The Catholic Church has always rebounded
Jaxon Gonzalez
Catholics are the last major Christian branch in the west to take strong socially conservative positions, if this sticks traditional Christianity has has no advocate with any real international pull.
Jace Murphy
>believes that Christ is the saviour and we can find salvation in him >but at the same time, rejecting the authority of the Church that he himself established, and believes it is unnecessary
Sedevacantism is just protestantism with incense.
Jaxon Brooks
I mean what I said. The fake popes since second Vatican council have all been public heretics, therefore cannot truly be Pope.
Robert Flores
Have you read the Catechism and its compendium? Hey, I don't blame you if you haven't because many people in the pews haven't and even fewer semi-apostates have. Just saying that when you talk about what happened to your Church, you might want to reflect on what your contribution and personal stake is. The doctrines of the Church are pretty clear, so a good start would be to read the CCC and the compendium instead of getting emotional about mainstream media news articles as if MSM was the go-to source about the Catholic faith.
It's pastroal inclusiveness. Unrepentant homosexuals are in mortal sin and will be cast into hell if they don't repent. Females will never be priests in the Catholic Church. FACT.
>No, I just read the actual documents of the second Vatican council. I don't believe you, sorry. You've read bits and pieces used in sede propaganda. Probably the bit about Muslims, etc.
I mean: >I want to be a Christian, but I hate literally every Christian on earth. And this is a guy who is telling me with a straight face he's read all the V2 documents that even a lot of super devoted Catholics haven't done. Sure, let me buy that bridge you're selling too.
Jonathan Price
Sedevacantism doesn't reject the Church's authority.
James Brooks
iktfb
James Reed
they should be allowed to go to church just like every other sinner. but they shouldnt be encouraged to sin. So in the end they probably wont like it in church unless they change.
Kevin Murphy
Yes, good point, that is a comparable situation. I have heard that the church may follow the same path as Jesus, similar humiliations, death, and resurrection.
Evan Wood
>forgot the link to the document that btfo every single sede written by based pope benedict xvi himself
Nope. As someone looking into becoming Catholic, as far as I'm aware, there is no acceptance of gay marriage in the Catholic Church. In fact the line, "If you're gay, God's telling you to be celibate' is still the poster card of their opinion on gays and their relationship. They're just starting to try and show that yes, we all are human, and yes, even priests and the pope can be fallible.
Blake Gomez
>Sedevacantism This word. Explain it please.
Ethan Bailey
>rejecting the authority of the Church that he himself established, and believes it is unnecessary Sedevacantism is literally doing the opposite of that you dumb ape. It is believing the authority of the church, as established for hundreds of years before manifest heretics took control in the 20th century.
Elijah Thomas
As a devout atheist, this sickens me too.
Julian Morgan
heretic is the word you were looking for but I wouldn't be talking considering you worship saints instead of jesus, require people to confess their sins, and let muslims pray to their god in your Vatican. Also that nasty coverup perpetrated by your church to help pedophiles to continue to molest young boys without issue.
Jeremiah Rivera
Sedevacantism amounts to denying the Indefectibility of the Church.
Brandon Myers
If you're interested in joining a trad church here's a link to some of them in each of the 50 states traditio.com/tradlib/masslat.pdf
Elijah Wood
JP2 is a fake pope?
I don't like Francis, but I thought he was a good guy?
Oliver Cruz
I am not catholic but I do believe in Jesus Christ and I am on my way to getting baptised this summer.. What does that make me? I pray everyday morning and night.
Connor Nguyen
bump
Oliver Rogers
Sup Forums is Little Finger
John Cooper
Lol I dont know why every protty thinks Catholics worships saints the same way they worship God. If you're in a state of mortal sin and you dont confess you're going to hell
>posts link proving Benedict and John Paul II to be heretic
John Paul II was actually all the way to apostasy.
Carter Miller
the only way to god is through me -Jesus
no church necessary heretic.
Gavin Martinez
says the muslim lol
Leo Perry
Vatican II isn't infallible. Next pope can just throw it out. More Bishops are re-embracing the tridentine rite. And it's moving back toward the 62 Missal.
Camden Foster
DEFROCK
Mason Thompson
Vatican II isn't infallible.
Isaac Long
>Have you read the Catechism You realize the nu-catechism is a modernist document, correct? It is false teaching.
>I don't believe you That's your choice, but I have.
>the bit about Muslims Which is indefensible btw
>I mean All (well 99.999%) modern Christians are scum, so it should not be surprising at all.
Nathaniel Mitchell
So Catholics are cool with faggotry? I guess that explains the whole pedo priest thing.
Dylan Johnson
To be very clear with my terminology you're not a Christian yet. Anybody who has been baptized is a Christian. So right now you're a catechumen which is someone in the process of learning the faith before baptism. Also to be very honest, I made the same mistake but your prayers dont count for anything until you have been baptized. God only sends his full help to a person in a state of grace. Theres two kinds of graces, sanctifying and actual. You're obviously recieving actual grace if you want to be baptized but that is the only thing you're receiving from God as of now
Christopher Edwards
Not at all
Ecumenical councils can't be "thrown out." Vatican II was not a doctrinal council. When it talks about doctrine it only reaffirms what was said at previous councils.
Juan Perry
any orthodox bishop worth their salt will tell you homosexuality is intrinsically disordered and any fornication should be avoided
No, Traditionally Catholics aren't. Novus Ordo changed that. Yes, that does explain the pedos, Many are being purged.
Christopher Wilson
literally makes a lot of sense if that is true.
Gavin King
>a single bishop who did something wrong is representative of the entire catholic church
>your prayers dont count for anything until you have been baptized
u wot?
Leo Davis
Absolutely disgusting
David Lee
JPII was an ecumenist and apostate.
He was a political shill, not a pope. Same as Bergoglio.
Adam Hill
GFGI
Alexander Butler
The Church is necessary. Christ gave certain authority to the Apostles who are the Church which is to teach, forgive sins, and dispense sacraments. Denying this authority is basically denying Christ
Aaron Myers
With Ratzinger this wouldn't happen.
Adrian Hill
It literally does. It's making a private judgement about particular popes or a particular council and saying they're not authentic.
Jacob Hughes
Quite a protestant thread. Until the 1970/80s if you were gay in a Catholic country the most sensible thing to do was becoming a priest / nun / monk. The sexual liberation was a shock for Catholic priest recruitung.
William Gomez
>the pope = the church >the pope is responsible for everything that the thousands of bishops do worldwide
Ethan Baker
not true at all. maybe you should read the bible.
Thomas Cooper
It is taught as infallible, which is the contradiction. You have to understand the magisterium to understand why it is though.
Jace Phillips
I spent years as a traditional Catholic, wanting NOTING more than to be a Carthusian, or, as a fall back (in case I was unfit/unworthy), as a traditional Catholic Trappist. Vatican is infallible, either as an Ecumenical Church Council, or as a Council on faith and morals accepted by the vast majority of bishops and (a string of) popes (the ordinary universal magisterium, which is infallible). All the sacraments were concocted anew, as well as a new code of Canon Law, a new Catechism, along with a new Mass, etc. The Catholic Faith, pre-Vatican II, does not allow radical rejection of the Catholic hierarchy. So, in terms of Catholic theology, traditional Catholics are in the quite the pickle. I say this as one who spent years in traditional Catholicism. Now, add on top of these problems, the lack of race realism in Church tradition (if the Arabs had become Christians, wouldn't Europeans been permitted to mix them like Spanish Catholics in South/Central America?), and the New Testament ban on pitiless, merciless warfare against the left and lower races, and we're in quite the pickle, theologically.
Jordan Torres
If you want to know the faith 99.9% better than anybody pick up the catechism O'Connell, Francis J., ed.: THE NEW CONFRATERNITY EDITION, REVISED BALTIMORE CATECHISM AND MASS NO. 3.
Aiden Williams
ITT cultists argue about their obscure cult history while the white race falls Cultists will then rabidly claim only their cult can save the white race even though it was created by jews and is universalist Cult continues to fellate man in funny hat
Hudson Nguyen
>O'Connell, Francis J., ed.: THE NEW CONFRATERNITY EDITION, >REVISED BALTIMORE CATECHISM AND MASS NO. 3. got a link?
Jason Bell
I did and its all in there. Is it too hard to believe?
Cooper Nelson
The sedevacantist priests think that they don't need the living Church and they can go off and do their own thing.
That's not new at all. Throughout the entire history of the Church, there have been people who thought they could reject the authority of the Church. And they have been completely forgotten by history. As will all the rogue priests around be.
The Church will live on. And within our living Church, there is a strong traditionalist movement full of people who devote themselves to the sacrements more traditionally not because they are forced to, but out of their own will. And they are all loyal to Rome. Not like the impious sedevacantist psuedo-protestants.
Keep performing your illicit mockery of the liturgies. You will come around eventually when you grow out of this nonsense.
Nathan Cox
It is when it comes to faith and morals (though again, Vatican II only reaffirms what past councils said). Not every particular document is infallible, Vatican II had a lot to do with pastoral concerns. You can say that it was implemented poorly or that it was poorly worded, but there isn't any reason to say that Vatican II was an invalid council.
SSPX is now in communion with Rome and can appoint its own clergy right?
Michael Thomas
its not though. there is no law that says a church can deny you entry to heaven if you dont follow their specific ruleset. My mother for example was excommunicated form the church for marrying a non catholic. Its not in any mortal mans authority who gets to heaven and who doesn't as I stated before.
Jaxon James
>It literally does No it doesn't. The sedevacantist position preserves the church, apostolic succession, etc. It is the only way to preserve indefectibility of the church, in fact.
>It's making a private judgement about particular popes or a particular council and saying they're not authentic. It is not private judgement, and this has nothing to do with indefectibility of the church anyway. Learn logic and understand definitions before making retarded statements next time.
Oliver Allen
>There is no contradiction Yes there is.
>in light of tradition. Since you believe the modernist nu-catechism to be "tradition," your opinion is not relevant here.
Samuel Hall
The SSPX has always been in a state of canonical irregularity.
>arbitrarily saying that the church is no longer valid except for my special snowflake group because you don't like a particular council
