Why has Rome's descendants become so disorganized and apathetic?

Rome was arguably the greatest, most powerful, innovative and organized empire the world has ever seen. I'm an American living in Italy, and one thing I have noticed is that Italians love to take pride in the Roman Empire, yet their day to day lives are entirely alien to the spartan, enlightened lifestyle of their supposed ancestors.

The Northerners (polentone) are better than the Southerners (terrone), but still far behind what I'd imagine the Romans would be like. Average IQ in North is 100 (Euro. standard) decreasing as you travel South with 88 in Sicily.

No one is willing to organize, no one is willing to rebel, revolt, and take matters into their own hands. I've done some thinking and while the barriers to change are extremely high (mafia & free masonry truly run things here, I've hovered around some elite circles), still yet the average citizen is extremely apathetic to the state of Italy. The greatest efforts I've seen have come from Lega Nord and the Five Star Movement, yet they too have been met with apathy, I've seen.

So, Sup Forums, what happened? Why can't Italy channel its Roman roots and reclaim sovereignty?

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Same reason we can't channel into byzantine or ancient Greek roots
When a society morally dies, it fucking dies

Like take Egypt or Syria or Iraq for example
Countries with yuuuge history yet they are shitholes today
Read "the fate of empires" good book that talks about such things

> when society morally dies

What are the signs of moral decay of society?
How do we predict them?
How do we prevent them?
Is there a deliberate force behind them?

> it fucking dies

Can we revive moral decency once there is already decay?
If so, how can we systematically apply such a process?

> inb4 memes, trolls, et al

Pol needs to have a truly intellectual and pragmatic discussion about these matters, create a think tank of sorts, put a plan together, design a morally redeeming virus, and inject the entire world with it.

All of these questions are answered in the book I posted, the man did his research
But anyway after the age of affluence, comes the age of intellectualism, a society then tends to become nihilistic and atheistic, tends to raise arguments that it doesn't solve, take Byzantium for example, it's days were spent over bickering and arguing over what should have been done, revolutions were a monthly thing and nothing was done about anything, a cleomenes or a Ceasar will rise trying to fix things and may succeed or fail and the empire is lost
>is there a force behind them
Human nature, an empire usually rises and starts declining after 250 years, people become obsessed with wealth and don't care anymore
Cont 1/2

If the ceasar fails, the empire will continue to crumble, secessionist movements will rise and everyone will be divided, even if it was saved at that point it would be like late Sparta, using mercenaries and replacing old rules due to desperation
A new, morally strong people always rises up and destroys the old ways, the assyrians did this, the Romans did this, the Arabs did this etc
Basically it WILL collapse, educate your friends and loved ones, because the future will be messy

That's the last part
Let me know if I missed anything

...

a great civilization doesnt die, until it has rotten from within. But when it has rotten, its dead. What you outlined is true for the whole west actually, and probably for the rest of the world too. We live in dark ages.
Taking pride in ancestors without embracing them is nothing more than confidence-boosting on no ground, theres no substance behind that(no hope). Its like virtue signaling, a delusional Kind of Thing.

The reason why eastern europe may be doing better in some regards is because their living standard is so poor, that it forces them to wake up a bit. Its a force of nature, its not a willful thing.

But for the majority of the west, we have bread and games and mass media that keep our minds occupied

Until times get really dire, nothing will change in the minds of the masses, and then it may be too late.

Good times make weak men, weak men make bad times, bad times make strong men.

The only fraction of hope is the free will, that is inherent in every one of us. But im not sure if free will ever really changed the course of history. Were mostly sheep and zombies who cant think for themselves, yet take action in accordance to our thinking.

Italy is not a shit hole though! It's a fucking paradise. Much better than any western European country. Just go and see for yourself

Well said, so there's no stopping the tide, then, it seems - well, at least not thus far.

Do you think, with the right educational systems in place which systematically work to prevent, slow, and reverse moral decadence - using the power of the internet and global networks - there is a chance of keeping the current empires around for good?

Also cleomenes, ceasar and Hitler all share the same aspect
They saw their people in ruins and they wanted to fix the situation
Thing is these people failed
A succeeding 'ceasar' we had were the komnenos dynasty, they rejuvenated the empire and started gaining lands till the crusade
Then it was all over
If you have any questions, please ask, I got time on my hands

do you see anyone alive today who could be our saviour?

That's what the writer of the book wanted, in the end of the book he wanted greater emphasis to be put in history so we can know what we did wrong
One bad thing about state education is patriotism, when you keep blabbering on about the victories but not the defeats, these defeats are repeated constantly
We need a centrist, objective view of history else the cycle of human spiritual death will happen again and again

You, me, the other anons. We have to be our own saviors when no one is brave enough.

I'm going for it, wish me luck anons, I'm joining the army with some objectives in mind that due to monitoring I'd rather not discuss...

>spartan, enlightened lifestyle of their supposed ancestors

Rome got so big because they were surrounded by backwards barbarians that they could easily conquer. They weren't some amazing super humans. Once they ran out of lands to conquer and people to enslave they collapsed.

Also this
Be your own hero user, you are one the minority of the minority of the minority, and possibly the only one who can do this
All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing, as in sit on their asses and wait for a savior

>Average IQ in North is 100 (Euro. standard) decreasing as you travel South with 88 in Sicily.
ummm no sweetie.

>Average IQ in North is 100

No, it's much higher than that. More like 104.

> Know thyself

Do you think there is ever hope for the writer's final ambitions? I don't see why we can't make an objective view of the past mandatory for the education of the youth, along with self-discipline, goal setting, and personal development for good measure.

Of course, I wouldn't rely on politicians but I'd do it myself and in turn create a viral network to do it locally. I'd incentivize it so everyone would, by nature of participating in society, be exposed to it.

My life has proven that unorthodox approaches can forge the deepest rivers, climb the tallest mountains.

Italy was the best country to live in untill EU.
What happened?
Communists, post communists, and traitors.

At one the same is said about the romans. They were once barbarians but they were just better they had better qualia.

Christianity.

Hahahahahaha, oh man are you fucked, bringing one reason that killed the Romans.

I'm gonna do my national service in Greece soon, God will guide me to you user
Shit man, I didn't expect this from pol, you guys are alright

Of course, but not in such a state, the people up there don't want good and intelligent men, they want dichotomies, left and right, strong and dumb soldier vs weak but intelligent scholar
Ancient Athens had a great education system but also forced everyone into the army, so everyone was a warrior poet
Nothing will happen with this democracy, I assure you there are interests that will block anything that will endanger this dumbening of humanity

Christianity killed Byzantium and Rome.

No, Romans came from the middle east, from the cradle of civilization. Its just a case of civilization vs barbarians, civilization is gonna win every time. Romans just happened to arrive in a virgin land full of barbarians.

They had a much tougher time fighting against other civilized people, like Carthaginians, who descend from Phoenicians.

I've had my fill of abrahamic religions and im barely in my early 20ths

>T. Zhang Wei

Not true at all. Rome took on Carthage, Greece, Egypt, The united armies of all the Gaulic tribes (who were actually fairly advanced, almost to the point of the Romans at that time), the Syrians, the Samnites, the Seleucid Empire, and many others.

Let us organize, then. E pluribus unum.

I never said anything about them being or not being from the NA/Middle East. I just said that they were also barbarians but evolved as a society to dominate lesser peoples.

I mean if the Carthaginians won the Punic Wars, it would be a totally different story. A few different decisions made by a few powerful men wouldve completely changed history, it has nothing to do with "spartan, enlightened lifestyle".

If the Carths won then we (not you) ( because I don't know if you're white/Latin because you're canadian so...) would not even exist. Fuck I own my existence to the Roman Empire. Rome is Aeterna

You forgot about CasaPound.

Are you saying that it really doesn't matter the type of people that a nation is comprised of (weak and degenerate, or strong and upright), but rather the diligence and strategy of those few elites at the top?

I'm an Italian citizen but born in raised in the US. Should I move to Italy to try and make it better or stay in the US?

Unless you're a caste system like India, having dumb people will result in dumb leaders, so that isn't such a good option

Society decays morally when people think the society will survive on its own, regardless of what they do in an individual level. Once a large section of the population thinks this way, the end is usually within sight for the nation.

>Its just a case of civilization vs barbarians, civilization is gonna win every time.
You can't be more wrong. Prior to industrial revolution civilization has no military advantages over barbarians. Even worse, civilized population becomes soft and unsuited for military service.

My point is, they arrived in Italy with civilization already established, compared to the other people in Europe who were still barbarians. Of course compared to the Gauls and Germanics they were culturally superior yeah, but compared to Carthaginians and Greeks, not so much.

They only came to dominate so much because of a few decisions of a few powerful people, killing off the Carthaginians, their real rivals. Even then, Rome was on the verge of annihilation when Hannibal came knocking, they only survived by spamming tons of troops at him, as he had crushed the Romans in previous battles.

Nope, Civilization destroys itself
Remember Rome? Babylon? Literally every ancient empire conquered by people with little organization whatsoever?

But Hanibals undoing was not Civilization but his own hubris. He want Rome to bow to him and that was never happening, if he wanted to win he should of Sacked/Occupied Rome.

Like I said before, it was the quality of People that made Rome so great.
Damn civilization when it is comprised of slaved minded husks.

No, what I'm saying is compared to civilized people like Greeks and Carthaginians, Romans were not any more culturally superior. Rome won the Punic Wars because of decisions made by their rulers. After that, conquering Europe was a cakewalk, as there were only barbarians to oppose them.

Had Carthage won the Punic Wars, Carthage would've conquered Europe instead.

I will be working on canada.
I have some sway and influence in some important places.
I can't disclose the steps to my goals or who I am affiliated with but I see some opportunities popping up which I will exploit.
My only real shaky gamble is banking on some average Canadians to be malleable enough to get behind me/my affiliates
Efforts are in the works to revive canada

Let's keep things on track.

> A nation is its people
> Moral decay is a natural and ever-progressing process
> hard times make hard men, hard men make good times, good times make weak men and weak men make hard times

The question is: how do we break the loop?

I would say we can't; everyone has failed before us. But now... now, the new variable thrown into the mix is the internet and the age of global organization the likes of which has never been seen before.

Is there a global, online, organized shadow corps. committed to systematically reversing moral decay or is it time to create one?

Not True, Carthage was comprised of Mercentile minded people unlike Rome who had an affinity to War ,Conquest , dominance

exactly, the result of the Punic Wars had nothing to do with Romans being culturally superior to Carthaginians or anything like that, but rather the decisions of the commanders

We break it when we educate people with both victories and defeats
Only showing victories results into dumb patriotism while only defeats raises losers with no spirit
Now is the ideal time, all the knowledge of the past is on our fingertips
We have to use it wisely

What are your goals, user? I'd like to chat more and organize if you'd like to cooperate. Average people are extremely malleable, in my opinion.

Does not society influence man as much as man influences society?

Also yes
The deep state is trying to create a caste system, in which a pure blooded elite will command an entirely new slave species
Search for Richard von Coudenhove Kalergi's views on race and religion

Well said. Let us take the next step, then, and follow up with those who take these matters seriously. What is the best platform to take things off of Sup Forums and into the arena of the real world?

Very good insight.

I would also like to add that this also occurs when they forget the golden rule of life on earth: Survival off the fittest, and indulge in pleasures instead of disciple/knowledge/education. In other words they chose pleasure over the pursuit victory/greatness.

One of the sad states of man is that in order to have joy or success he must sacrifice an equal amount pain and misery. When you live in a rich society, the will to do this becomes far less present since you begin to see no point in it all. This begins the self-destructive death-spiral.

Italians and Meds in general have some potential, but they are addicted to pleasure and sensual indulgences rather than pursuits of greatness.

Why work for 50 years so that you can retire in a beautiful remote town and enjoy wine and fish when you are 70, when you can be a fisherman living in a beautiful village and enjoy wine and fish every night?

Nords perish because they become insanely prideful and lazy with their success, Meds perish because they become sensual, decadent, and lazy.

Pain = Strength.

Pleasure = Weakness.

Meds crave power when they become insecure and envious. The Romans were motivated as much by hatred and revenge as by greed.

See:

Best thing for now are gatekeepers like mainstream meteor guy to continue their work, while we develop a way to easily redpill people

I have a book a German user made some years ago, it has everything, everything that is necessary, give me a minute I'll link the download page

So you reveal yourself to be a chink then?

That's exactly what I thought.

Disregard everything this insect says, his "associates" are the CCP.

It's all Germany's fault.

I say hanibal lost the war because he is a product of a lesser people which raised him to be a lesser man.
Saying that it doesn't mean that its an absolutist idea, the greatest victory in life I think is rising above the masses and become your own man living by your convictions and Values, principles, morals.

Hanibal representing Carthage was a lesser man because he was influence by Carthage's Stupid rivalry with Rome

pdf-archive.com/2016/12/18/the-money-lenders-and-their-game-by-anonymous/

Here, it has some typos, but it does the job well, it's like a pol Bible

To this my final point on why civilization dies, it boils down to Slave Morality.
If you think like a slave you become a slave and hate everything that the Master creates or loves.

In this example Civilization.

rome was a mess

Thank you for the contribution, user. I will take the time to tackle this text and take appropriate action. In the mean time, do you think the best way to go beyond words and into the arena of action is to assemble a shadow org.?

>Average IQ in North is 100 (Euro. standard) decreasing as you travel South with 88 in Sicily.

These IQ scores were established from PISA to IQ conversions. There is no difference in the IQ between North Italy and Sicily determined from Raven's Progressive Matrices examinations.

Yes, but not always. The Caesars created good times. The Good times created weak men.
Weak Men like Lucius Arelius Commodus who was weak, and in his weakness created atrocius times.

After Rome defeated the Carthaginians (in a very close fight that could've gone either way) they were in such an advantageous position economically that they were able take on anyone. I mean by the time Rome got to Egypt/Syria/Seleucids they had so much land and people its not even a real fight.

The only "real" fight, as in existential crisis of the state, was against the Carthaginians... and Rome almost lost if not for bad decisions by Carthage's leadership.

Is decadence the killer of Civilization?
This is when I take Julius Evola extremely seriously.

Something like 8c, with more privacy could be better, but remember that newcomers are necessary, too
The problem is that the already existing shadow org has full control over the Internet, they could just shut down the page
What we need is to take action outside of the Internet, while communicating via the Internet, we need an organic leader-less revolution, no Spencers, no Milos, because they always add the risk of controlled opposition

Do you think that Civilization cannot survive without a foreign threat to distract its citizenry from their Society's faults.

Hannibal's army was pound for pound more efficient than the Romans. He crushed the Romans in every battle in Italy, he had Rome by the fucking ball sac, until he was recalled back to Carthage. Stupid decisions by the council back home.

Its like saying Europeans are lesser people compared to Muslims because Merkel decides to let in a bunch of migrants.

wow the iq of those places really took a from immigrants

>a hit

> Failing ton plan is planning to fail.


I think the most organic and leaderless movements still have leaders, just faceless ones.

> based offline, organized globally via online communications

Yes, this is key. Be a ghost and the bullets fly right through you.

problem with rome (as with most empires, including the small serbian "empire") is that they're unable to create sustainable systems, all of it rests on one strong minded individual, after that individual dies everything goes to shit because a million factions start fighting for power. and then after the fighting is over, one individual from the bunch wins and again it all depends on him, he can bring back the empire to its former glory or he can make things worse. if the makes the empire great the cycle continues forever.
if augustus was assassinated instead of dying from natural causes god knows what would happen to rome in its early empire stages. maybe they would revert to a republic. but because he was capable and lived fairly long it didn't happen.

Dude Italy it's the cuckest of the Cuck country since the end of WWII.

We lost the war, we lost our government, our military...

We are complete VASSAL to the US.

And fucking Prodi fucked us economically as well.

To regain some balance we should have to redo everything from the end of WWII onward.

Remember also, we were amongst the 5 biggest country in the 80s, before they pushed us away from socialism!

That's really it
But all people who say
>I'm the leader of the alt right! Listen to my command!
Should be immediately denounced, spreading knowledge should be our first and most important goal

same thing happend in yugoslavia, after tito died everything went to shit because the whole system was based on his strong cult of personality and his form of communism called titoism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titoism

1. Rome defeats Carthage. They only survive because they spam tons more men at Hannibal, and because Carthaginian council recalls Hannibal back home.

2. With Carthage out of the way, Rome easily crushes barbarian Gauls and Spaniards.

3. By the time Rome gets to Greece, they already control Iberia + Gaul + Carthage. You think a few independant city states can stand up to Rome + Iberia + Gaul + Carthage?

4. By the time Rome got to Egypt they already controlled Rome + Iberia + Gaul + Carthage + Greece. Yea, reaaaally tough fight for the Romans.

5. By the time Rome got to the Seleucids they already controlled Rome + Iberia + Gaul + Carthage + Egypt. Wow, another super tough fight for the Romans! How did they ever manage to win that?

etc etc

To be honest senpai I think that of the Germans they deserve to die off as much as my country if it waned as much as they have, for Godsakes they envited our enemy to our domain, they are so feminen and weak, they are an embarrassment to their ancestors.

I appreciate your enthusiasm. There is no "reviving" a dead order. We will never have ancient Greek, ancient Roman, or ancient Egyptian-style morality or spirit ever again. As Greek user said, once it dies it dies; but this death makes way for a new order. This is the principal that the so-called NWO has gambled upon in trying to establish their "world order" - if they can destroy all existing values by removing religion, perverting philosophy, encouraging primal behavior, etc. , then they can impose a design of their own provided their resources are sufficient.

However, this chaos opens room for other designes as well, and if the globalists are not the first to fill the void they will fail entirely (party just because their goals are so total). The best option for a revival of any moral order is scrap trash projects like America, Democracy, EU, multiculturalism, etc. , by stoking the flames of revolution. Then, being in a position to act first, to fill the void (ein soph) with the design of a powerful nation-state built on desired principals. If done right, it will be like formation of Europe from the corpse of Rome, or like the formation of Babylon from the death of Sumer - but with an unprecedented degree of understanding behind the process.

Sustainability will be the name of the game moving forward. We need to create systems that propagate themselves and multiply when our hands are no longer in the pot.

This reminds me of what Trump is doing as we speak with Pakistan and Iran. Creating a common enemy is one of the Laws of Power if I remember correctly.

Therefore, a ghost council behind the scenes calling the shots, designing, crafting, and propagating its systems.

I run a digital marketing company and I know the game of behind the scenes influence, and how veritably easy it is to influence the masses to do whatever the hell you want.

The only difference between a German and I is that my will to live is stronger.

lol this is true. Germany died in 1945

Today's Germans might just be inferior to Mudslimes...

I still have my fair share of history to study, but don't revolutions always, in the end, fail?

Isn't it better to create an identity that runs deeper than the flag which may burn and toil, or the religion which may be corrupted? The goal, I think, would be to recreate something akin to what Christendom was to the West.

Inferiority comes from your state of mind, if you act and think like an inferior person then you are, you get me?

there will come a time to collaborate i can promise that. it will happen. you guys need to take the reigns of your countries back. when you do we will be there
its too early to get into details of thw goals or else the plans could be compromised before we have real momemtum with general population. this could cost me dearly if it doesnt work.
i can tell you we are nearly 2 years into our 16 year endeavor and its in motion. it includes some dismantling some revitalizing some cash flow and some new leverage
since my id came up this way ill use it as a callsign
youll know its me when things get announced and discussed and "Dimo" shows up. keep your eyes open for it

im no chink
im white as the day is long
i cant talk about who im affiliated with but if i could i guarantee youd be pleasantly surprised if you knew
people are starting to listen because theres a chaos the public cant see
canadas best interest is at heart. youll have to trust in that

thats all i will say on the matter for now. you wont hear from me after this until things get bigger. good people are starting to pay attention i promise

Ancient romans or reinassance italians weren't genetically the same as italians today.

If Hannibal had not returned to Carthage, Scipio would have siezed the the captiol and cut off all trade to Carthage, which they needed to survive. Rome, meanwhile, even if conquered by Hannibal, would have been reclaimed by insurgents as soon as Hannibal's army weakened from hunger and fatigue (the Romans were prepared to burn their grain stores), while Carthaginians got most of their food from trade which could have been siezed by Scipio. Hannibal had to return.

Hannibals army needed plunder to keep going, either from wimping major battles or taking cities.

After Canne, Rome did
Not give him pitched battles, just harassed him on the fringes.

Sitting around in a field getting bit by mosquitoes for months, his army melted away.

Fabian strategy

When the time comes you'll be well received, Dimo.

What's the best way to fall into the appropriate circles in order to partake on similar projects? If there's already significant progress underway I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel.

Is this country by country or world-wide?

Wrong post?

Comparing the old roman empire to nowadays Italy is a very long shot, Italy was a better place in the 80s and 90s in regards of life expectations, still way too much indulgent but people had hope to get better in life and sustain a wealthy lifestyle.

The sad truth is that one or two generations are enough for that memory to get lost, the genius of the ancient empires was to leave proofs of their achievements in stone, so they left it for the posterity to know and be inspired.

Also Rome itself it's I believe the most apathetic city in the entire Italy, just imagine being surrounded every day from such reminders of past glory and fall, just imagine from that ages every type of politics and social customs being tried, you would just try your best to enjoy what you've got instead of trying something new.

Revolution is what turned Rome from a kingdom into a republic, which went on to conquer the known world. Revolution created America and deposed the monarchies in France, Russia, and China. Revolutions do not fail, the moral character of nations is what fails.

Christendom spread through Europe because Christians alone mobilized to preserve education and restore order to the vaccumous Europe left by Rome. While a religious order is great, it is nothing without a people to champion it.

The ethnos (nationality) is an extended family. Without regard to ethnos there can be no lasting order as cohesion of principals becomes exceedingly difficult without biological similarity. Nation first, then religion, then state.

Yes because Carthage deliberated too long on sending Hannibal reinforcements and supplies.

Carthage should've either

a) go all in on crushing Rome
or
b) offer a peace treaty to Rome, forcing very very favourable conditions for Carthage.

But they did neither, and they let Hannibals army wither away from attrition until it was too late. By that time they had lost the upper hand and had to recall Hannibal.

Exactly! Nation is not simply people living in one area. It is Family, kinship, blood.

Kep in mind that by this point Rome had built a considerable number of ships to reinforce their southern border and there was no guarantee that reinforcements would arrive to Hannibal safely, which is part of the reason the Carthaginians were so indecisive on the matter.

>spartan
Spartan are greek retard.

WTF dropped

Leftist intellectuals have killed the family which also killed the extended family; Country.