Are taxes theft?

Are taxes theft?

Gotta pay for those roads somehow.

what if I don't want roads?

In a multi cult nation they are. The money goes to strangers. In a monoethnic nation the money goes to family.

Yes.
Roads in early America were privately built.

some

a dollor taken from you that does not benefit you is stolen
IE
the money that fixes the roads and defends the country is not stolen it is used to the benefit of the payer

but any money given to those who do not chip in has been wasted thus stolen from you

money taken from you by force using violent coercion? sounds like theft to me

"Theft" is defined by the state.

They are theft if you leave the state who wants you to pay taxes as a protest.

If you continue to live in the state and pay the tax, you agree to the social contract that is established between state and adult citizen.

Complaining about taxes while living in the state that demands them is like telling someone you were raped after consenting.

Depends on the interests of those doing the collecting.

Services you need to consume need roads.
And no, you are not self-sufficient. You rely on roads for food. Even if they would deliver you everything against money they would just Charge you more because they are paying for taxea.

>inb4 muh drones bro

the entire world is claimed by different criminal organizations calling themselves the state. There's literally nowhere on Earth I can go and not be a slave on some government's plantation. Plus, as a US citizen I am required by law to pay taxes to the US government even if I live in another country. The slavery is almost inescapable.

Actually, the messy, unruly anarchism found in many middle eastern countries, which is at least a very de facto one, seems very appealing to me in the regard you mentioned in your post.

This thread.

Again.

Taxes are the price for living in a society.

I never asked for roads. If roads were offered voluntarily as a service, I would likely choose to contribute. But to take my money by force and spend it on something that someone else decided I need is stealing and is immoral.

We all know 4,000 years ago that warlords squabbled over territory so that they could tax the subjects they conquered and live like kings off them. We also know to maintain order the king had to give back some portion of the taxes in public services.

Governments function exactly the same today, they just have better PR with an army of people telling us all how good taxes are for us. But its exactly the same.

This is what Trump was talking about pointing out that DC is the richest city in the country. That's where the taxes go to be divvied up amongst the rulers.

You can never get rid of government, which means you can never get rid of predatory taxes. The most you can do is pull your head out of your ass and vote for someone who promises to limit the amount they take in exchange for voting him in. Then vote him out if he raises taxes anyway - like Bush 41.

id have no problem paying taxes if it went to things that i supported, hate to be contributing taxes that pay for shitty school systems that create liberals by graduation and national health care systems

>Taxes are the price for living in a society.

>not understanding that commies would just 100% tax everything to implement their economic system

Vote for an anti-road politician

no, they're involuntary contributions. it seems like america is the only country who thinks it is and that's probably due to there being so much multiculturalism there

a necessary evil. should be minimized.

if you pay voluntarily then no, otherwise yes

There's like 5 actual communists in this country

there is no evil that is necessary. that's a false dichotomy

No. Theft is a legal concept. The state makes the law and defines what is and what is not theft.

yea and if people like pigs and pizza drivers use it for commerce they should have to insure and get licenses to use our roads, and lets make rules (((THEY))) have to follow and make signs, and put them on the sides of the road. Then we'll hire people to monitor these rules and if they- break them, they have to pay fines.
cause everyone cant STOP. its fair when the rules says yo8u can GO. on a 4 way stop. ITS FAIR. no ONE should be that STUPID.
so win win everyone dont be dumb and well, share and there. ok?

Then feel free to leave the nation if you don't like it. I'm sure there are some nice, unclaimed icebergs for you to found your libertarian utopia on

Private property is theft.

Taxes are rent.

And?

You could just kill yourself if it's a problem for you, apparently it isn't, seeing as you are still here. So you accept that you must pay taxes, motivation is irrelevant.

Or go live somewhere where there are no taxes like some anarchist places in Africa or Asia.

not all taxes are equal, but some are pretty much theft.

No force at all. Feel free to leave!

Nah, you agreed to it when you signed the Constitution, duh

I do accept that I am a slave, but that doesn't make slavery moral.

>criminal organizations calling themselves the state
Impossible. You are implying that laws preexist legal institutions. This is false. A state cannot be a criminal organization, by definition, since what is and what is not crime is defined by the state.

>what is a figure of speech?
some taxes are necessary to maintain society, infrastructure and social order. removing taxes would mandate the sacrifice in many cases of these things and therefore would be a poor trade.

you can't just pack up and leave to another country because of immigration laws. Even if you could, you'd just be trading one slavemaster for another. And as far as slavemasters go, the US government is one of the more benevolent ones

Use of services without paying is theft so not paying taxes is theft.

who owns the earth?

...

>get robbed
>give robber money
>you are now in a social contract

okay fair point. Criminal organization is the wrong term. But the state is a violent coercive force and is immoral by its very nature

Taxation is theft any way you look at it. I wouldn't even be against giving up some income to pay for public goods, but it's absolutely despicable the way things are done with being held at gunpoint to give a huge amount of your money to the state to pay for shit you are morally opposed to.

Probably the guy that collects rent for it no?

The guy with the biggest gun and the will to use it.

you need a state to protect you from other states. it is therefore necessary to pay into the state to maintain your protection. this is a mutually beneficial relationship.

That's what's known as a protection racket.

I thought vehicle registration money was used for the roads

/thread

No, because everyone that lives in a nation that allows emigration is free to level to a live somewhere without taxes. So by living in a nation with taxes it is a voluntary choice and can't be theft.

thats how it works. dont like it? kill yourself.

Breathing is theft.

this is the right answer
yeah, because he's got goons to collect

>There's literally nowhere on Earth I can go and not be a slave on some government's plantation.
Live at sea or on the 14 million square kilometers of Antarctica.

Plus, as a US citizen I am required by law to pay taxes to the US government even if I live in another country.
Renounce your citizenship, or earn less than $250,000 and pay no taxes.

TFW you get cucked by the captcha

It's like with business: Make your own.

Accountant here. All money for road maintenance goes under the "general" account for the government. As you can imagine it is always short of funding.

if u pay them by force : ofc.
what else would u call it, when ure moey gets extracted by threat of or real applied violece for shit u never ordered, or want ?

OFC its theft.

No. not if the tax money actually goes to help you. But if it's wasted I would say it's theft, like most nations do today

So what's the proper amount of taxes each citizen owes? Imagine if netflix charged a % of your income instead, that's unequal as fuck.

exactly

Only when private companies do it, ancaps are pretty ok with that.

FFS, call the state McState and shut up.

Being a meanie is theft!

If you currently live in the US, then yes. Your tax dollars are not going into things that help you in any way. In fact, it's the opposite, your tax dollars support big businesses while trampling on little ones, your schools are crumbling, no one gives a fuck, your towns and cities and roads are getting old and decrepit, while politicians just stuff their pockets because tax dollars = money left on the table unattended.

If you have an honest government, then no, it's not theft.

well that's all well and good except that every square inch of land on this earth has been claimed by coercive organizations called the state. The only option left is seasteading which may be feasible one day but not today (and I assume that when it is feasible, the states will just claim ownership of the ocean as well.

So without taxes people would not want things?

>Not black, can't collect welfare
Taxes is theft unless i'm a disable crack baby. Only thing I benefit from society is school...Which was absolute trash in USA

If you're okay with the state's theft because they offer you services, then you should be okay if one day Monsanto gets a monopoly for 4 years and you can only buy food from them.

Why not, actually, just become communists? By that logic, the more taxes, the more services, so not even 100% tax would be theft.

>therefore would be a poor trade

says who ? who told u what ? where is the proof ?
i tell u : the state told u that ( idoctrination )
proff that it's the other way around u can see i the past ( where there were some almost completely derregulated / free places. america oce was also one of these. that's why america prospered i notime and became the wayyyy strongest ecoomy and surpasssed everyone and hat icredible wealth and a never seen before level of living...

but then came leftism ad with leftism came the state becoming a maligent, lifesuckig cacer, like in europe and became precisely that, what ppl origialy escaped from, to america, when it was still the lad of free ...

... :'C

Too bad. I'd rather have nice roads than your freedom to be a fucking idiot.

Find enough like-minded retards and you might be able to undo that.

I only feels like it's theft when it goes to something I'm against. I would believe it's the same way for most people despite what other arguments they have.

this. very well said.

>Are taxes theft?
Haven't got my return yet so I'd say yes

>the state is a violent coercive force and is immoral
The whole point of the state is that its the least "violent coercive force" your gonna get. If you live off in no government land you will be subjected to will of individuals whose primary interests involve stealing all your shit and raping your asshole.

people will build their own roads to participate with trade

Thats the wrong question. Everything except an even trade by people with equal power who will never meet again or have a continued relationship is probably theft. The question is whether or not this particular stick-up can be squared with your values.

Or, if we're going to be defeatists, if you've got enough guns to stop the mugging.

Only retarded ancaps think so.

If a nation set it's taxes at a rate required to meet it's funding obligations and evenly charged people an equal share everyone under the min tax amount would leave. This cycle of lowing population would lower the tax load but would also lower the size of the economy. In the end you would run so many people out of the nation that was was left wouldn't be able to man their own national defense.

Gnash your teeth then, and bemoan that you don't live in paradise. Nature is what it is, cry about it or move on and do what you can.

You are a fucking faggot.

The state is there because the people want it to be there. Because it holds the people that they don't like (criminals, unscrupulous businessmen, whatever) to account. Because it enforces the law with police officers. Because it provides hospitals and schools, and people want those things.

If you don't want to sign the implicit contract of agreeing to live by the rules of you government, then you have choices ahead of you:

a) You could choose to break your country's laws, live in an illegal manner of your choosing, and try and evade capture - or maybe just accept that you may be captured. You are still free, as a human being, to make this choice to live a criminal life if you truly wanted to.

b) You could choose to try and live "off-grid" - again away from where your government might find you. You could go and live on the Mongolian Steppe. I doubt anyone would give a shit what you do out there.

c) If you have decided that you like the geographical location where you live, but you just don't like your government, then you can fight your government. Become a politician and campaign for the government to reform. OR you could form an army, and try and topple the government. It's up to you. Of course, in either case, you must realise that the politicians who oppose you ARE REPRESENTING OTHER PEOPLE, WHO DESIRE TO HAVE THEIR INTERESTS REPRESENTED IN THE COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT AS WELL.

You're a fucking idiot. You're only a slave because you choose to be. You could become the master if you put the effort in. Faggot.

Giving money to the gubmint to literally just burning money.

Don't believe me? Just look Canada, they're having fucking tax payer funded pride parades and giving assistance to women.
What the fuck?

>The whole point of the state is that its the least "violent coercive force" your gonna get

that's not even true. For instance, in the US more property is stolen by the state in "civil asset forfeitures" than is stolen by non-government thieves.

yes well then it would be voluntary and thus moral. It's the involuntary aspect of taxes which makes it immoral.

>Because it enforces the law with police officers.

Police don't do much to enforce the law on a grand scale and the State existed long before modern policing was even a concept. Police are about maintaining the power of the state and creating the illusion of security.

kek-cia niggers?

Kings stole way less from their people than modern governments.

They had, after all, interest in leaving a legacy behind to their children. The state is only interested in abusing the country and deplete it of resources, low time preference. That's how you get debt, inflation, etc.

Taxes are indeed theft. As soon as is practicable, my plan is to move to that tax-free paradise, Somalia.

delicious post user

And without a state how much shit do you think would be stolen?

Than its not stolen you dumb ass.

we don't know because living in a stateless society isn't an option anywhere on earth

I would burn that carpet.

Taking property without due process? I'd consider that stealing by definition, even if it's not by law.

WHERE IS THE FUCKIN SAUCE FOR THAT FUCKING .jpg MY DUDE

>Nigga sauce

Kings were apart of a state

>Police don't do much to enforce the law on a grand scale and the State existed long before modern policing was even a concept.
The state has always had agents to enforce the law. For the whole of the history of human civilisation.

>Police are about maintaining the power of the state and creating the illusion of security.
Oh you're right, when a policeman arrests and imprisons a serial killer, that's just an illusion of security. I would have been much more secure if they were on the loose. Thanks for opening my eyes to The Truth™. I'm redpilled now. Loominati confirmed.

If you use any public services...nope

we don't have a choice to use non-public services because competing with the government isn't allowed.

>Kings stole way less from their people than modern governments

I own my land as well as my business, I'm not subject to conscription, and I can effectively avoid taxes without having to worry that someone is going to come into my home and see if I'm hiding resources.

Where does this roads meme come from?