Watching mostly Cultured-Thug and Hans Herman Hoppe videos but can't decide which ideology is best or which movement to put my energy into. It seems I'm not the only person in this situation here. Please help me!
I consider myself a true American. Love the founding fathers and want to bring forth their vision/ be the man they would want in society. This leads me down the path of AnCap libertarianism but I don't see us achieving something like this in our lifetime. I understand Fascism is antithetical to what they believed and I have a strong distrust in government but it seems like the only way forward in order to progress this society, a sort of necessary evil. Keep in mind, it's a lot easier to be openly AnCap in public, I live in Los Angeles so if I say I'm a fascist some nigger-commie will burn down my apartment complex.
>Love the founding fathers >Loving jew loving (((freemasons)))
Also, natsoc isn't necesarrily fascist per say. Mussolini and Hitler had differences in terms of ideology.
Eli Nelson
SCOOPISTAN
Dominic Kelly
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Parker Ramirez
absolute monarchy
Michael Hill
civic nationalism xDDDDD
Thomas Davis
Libtarian cucks allow usury and other forms of labor-devoid means of profit making
Luis Wood
Anarcho-naturism.
Noah Wood
So did Mao and Stalin, they were both still Marxists.
Dominic Nguyen
Once you incorporate physical removal into libertarianism, it's pretty much perfect.
Jeremiah Cooper
>these forms off voluntary transactions are ebil! Let the retards be in debt. They dug their grave; they can sleep in it. Adults can make their own fucking decisions.
If that's your best argument, you have no argument.
Noah Johnson
My problem with fascism is that it completely relies on government not being corrupt and working for the people. Wouldn't big business just team up with government to decide what's "Good" for society? It seems this shit could go full 1984 reeaaalll fuckin' fast
Jacob Cooper
Fascism.
I'd rather live in society with a strong community bond and common goals, than live in shithole where everyone tries to outjew his neighbor.
Samuel Foster
Libertarianism/An-Cap is like a sapling that is unable to take root and grow in an overgrown forest. Fascism is the cleansing fire that burns away that old decaying forest.
Once (((they))) and their puppets are gone & we have driven out the forces of degeneracy, the need/desire for fascism will naturally diminish.
Fuck Natsoc. I'm a god damned Nationalist and I'm not going to cuck for the faggots we destroyed in WW2. All American NatSocs are cucks.
Brody Cruz
Slower than without government, because government can pull off "Why should we team up with you for fucking up general populace, when we can just kill you and nationalize your assets".
Grayson Robinson
They're pretty much the same thing. In an ancap society, if you privately own a town/city you can set your own laws and make it fascist.
Angel Cooper
Dude I think about this all the time.
The solution to our problems is either libertarianism (not quite ancap) or some sort of faux-facism.
I'm leaning towards soft libertarianism as the solution, although degenerates getting purged in fascism would be hilarious
Nathaniel Long
Not really. There will still be a working class that is completely disposable and business will be fiscally motivated to keep them down and basically enslave them for profit. Also what is stoping a government to form in this society? And how the fuck do we get there?
Christian Watson
Makes perfect sense. Fuck... Am I becoming a socialist?
Ian Roberts
Assuming we agree that Commies are absolute cancer, you're right for following many libertarian ideas, but it's not an answer to the whole picture.
Communism and free-for-all capitalism are two sides of the same oligarch's coin. (((They))) have very easy well-trodden paths to follow if they want to control a country and both extremes deliver. Fascism offers a critique of both ends of this spectrum, and seeks to reduce outside influence and change the law to take away the tools and weapons the chosen few enjoy so much. That's also a clue as to why AnCap is so much more acceptable in public. The kikes arguably have more avenues to victory in an AnCap "system" than they do even in Communism, a Jewish invention.
Isaac Wright
Great post user. My problem with fascism/Natsoc is really just the conformity aspect. I love the fact their lifting their communities and reaching for something greater and mystical... but this picture reminds of sheep with no right to go off and live the way they want to. Fascism BREAKS the rules of natural law... this worries me.
Jason Baker
>we can just kill you and nationalize your assets Can you stop pretending you're any better than commies?
Thomas Bell
why tho
Jacob Young
Nice Guy National Socialism obviously.
Ryan Rivera
>not be a confederate
Matthew Gutierrez
>working class that is completely disposable Do you honestly believe the government has a positive effect on people's wages? Price fixing doesn't work and every time politicians fuck with the labour market it makes it less attractive for companies to employ workers driving wages lower.
Evan Powell
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Connor Hernandez
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Jace Thomas
Fascism is impossible in multi-cultural and racial societies anyway. Maybe not Fascism, but Nat-Soc is.
It's like mixing bees and ants together and wondering why the hive is collapsing.
Nat-Soc requires everyone to be roughly on the same page. American Nat-Soc, as it stands now, would be like watching a basketball team in which 2 of the players are wearing their own jerseys and only get to count their own points.
Mason Jones
Ascend, friend.
Luis Rivera
>love the fact their lifting their communities The growth of the state and increased reliance on that state leads to lower engagement with the community lessening its importance.
>reaching for something greater and mystical Nothing mystical about bootlicking. That feeling you feel when you decide to relinquish control to the state is laziness. It's you trying to get away from the responsibility of fixing shit and hoping the state will handle it for you.
Gabriel Richardson
Fascism is in a funny place between the two ends. It riffs off of socialist appeal, yet its ideals have little to nothing to do with Marx. Unlike AnCap it is collectivist, yet unlike Marxism it recognises the importance of individuality, hierarchy, and self-determination.
Fascist thoughts tend to open a lot of cans of worms. For example, ask yourself, what is freedom? It's the freedom to design your own path in life, based on your experiences and judgement. But then again, who crafts those experiences and influences your judgement? Just look at how degeneracy is tolerated and peddled endlessly. It's almost as if people are having their destinies written for them by (((somebody))). And of course those people become welfare niggers and ZOGbots.
Think of natural selection. The fascist authority seeks to purge degeneracy and forge an environment that encourages/demands the best of its citizens and leaves the waste be. It can happen by force in a short period of time. Or it can be something more palatable -- something that happens over a century or two, like a gentle surgery.
Like said it's a temporary state. A cleansing is necessary if we are to reach a next stage for humanity. We've beaten our natural world, and we need to evolve by throwing off the chains that bind us and arranging our ascension.
Chase Carter
>not being anarcho-fascist, where it's an anarchist society where the only people welcome are those with fascist ideals who willingly follow a command structure and anyone who doesn't like it gets kicked out (altitude variable based on how commie they are)
Evan Fisher
That is a National Socialist symbol, not a fascist one.
Sebastian Phillips
this, Fascism =/= NatSoc. NatSoc has its own entirely different set of virtues from fascism
Benjamin Watson
Ethno-Fascism in the name of individual liberty. Divided we fall.
Ryder Bailey
Sir Oslwad Mosley would disagree. He clearly states it's fascism in a different form. Same movement, different country.
Aiden Baker
Prove me wrong.
Landon Martin
>Anglo >Thinking their opinion matters
Josiah Hall
Pic related is the final redpill.
Connor Moore
people's wages are not the issue. It is the issue of regulation and lawsuit liability being a drain that multiplies across each product reducing their wage buying power to nothing. All wage gains are being eaten up by healthcare. In the effort to give each boomer 5 more years of life each millenial will give 10 years of wages. At least boomers fucking multicultural dreamworld when shitskins decide to pull the plug on all the geriatric whites. Libertarianism would not give most people the answer to healthcare most want, fascism could.
Jackson Mitchell
National Socialism is a fucking retarded ideology with no actual intellectual backing, it's just socialism (communism-lite) with some fashthetics sprinkled on top. The only reasons people here subscribe to it is because they saw some Nazi speech propaganda and they saw how "redpilled" Hitler was as well as holohoax debunking videos and they think that National Socialism is correct.
National Socialists on this site, according to previous threads, seem to be just mainstream political cucks and centrists who just like the way National Socialism feels and pretend take a stand and subscribe to it because it's easier to subscribe to an already similar ideology instead of taking an actual political and philosophical stand and going ancap.
If you're smart, you'll understand economics and morality and come to realize that the state, no matter what type, no matter what size, is a coercive and immoral entity; the only true way to govern a people into a prosperous future is through Anarcho-Capitalism (or hoppean ancapism if you like that route).
Jose Turner
ancaps are just the useful idiots of the mega corporations
fascism when used as a means to an end can do miracles
Gavin Torres
Not an argument
Aiden Miller
>technology >breeding programs Almost right. Genetic engineering is gonna make all this silly bickering obsolete.
Jaxson Hall
Ancap is autistic.
Blake Lewis
God save the King
Easton Taylor
Not an argument ;)
Aaron Watson
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Matthew Davis
You see, the problem with ancaps is that the guy with the largest bank, essentially a jew, gets to be the guy with the largest army.
Ancaps are fine, but what we need is natsoc with some individual ancap solutions, such as bitcoin and unregulated interest rates.
Also borders are gold.
Josiah Gomez
>Makes the "argument" that fascist are just hopping on a band wagon and the real smart people who understand economics real good are all ancaps. >Claims non-argument when the same is said against ancaps
David Flores
Somewhere inbetween, how's Hoppean-Libertarian?
Nathaniel Gutierrez
Neither of them, globalist neoliberalism/neoconservatism is the best system
You have to realize, market forces still act on the richest person. If he does something immoral, his business will suffer, if he attacks people with his army, his business will die.
Wyatt Anderson
Saying "niggers are dumb" is not an argument either. It's still true. I'm making a statement, not an argument.
Christian Hernandez
Ask yourself at what point you're okay with the government initiating force. Libertards and AnarchoChildren fixate on this issue, but its a good thing to think about. Do you believe that a state should never use force for any means, other than self defense, or should a state utilize its authorize to achieve ends? Both camps ultimately believe that state force is acceptable, no one is a complete pacifist, the only difference is the requisite conditions each party believes must be met for it to be justified.
People often do things out of desperation, particularly poor people who have heavy responsibilities. Usurious lenders exploited these people in the past, and this was one of the staples of how they maintained power. If you allow subversive elements to take root you'll awake one day to see that they control everything and you in your own ignorance no longer hold anything.
Luke Perez
Centrist-Slightly Right-Libertarian I dont care just leave me alone
Joseph Scott
We can have a great free market system, but they just won't let you have this ancap world you want really idk if anarky of any kind can work. So I choose fascism so that then after we can live in peace the left is violent and crazy and needs to be put down or deported away with the minorities. Hail Victory !
Any division of sovereignty is cancerous. Think about how militaries, businesses, and criminal organizations are governed. Command should always flow downwards and authority upwards.
Adam Watson
>>Claims non-argument when the same is said against ancaps Never said that. You have to break a lot of conditioning to become an ancap. You don't think taxation is theft?
Joshua Reed
AnCaps think they're free from the government and laws but they are still under the control of the Jew.
NatSoc actually provides a SAFE SECURE FUTURE for your children. Ancaps want your children to be a sex slave for a 22 year old NEET warlord bitcoin embezzler.
Robert Harris
>gadsen flag >ancap
Noah Nelson
>Ancaps are autistic This is an assertion with no factual backing
Evan Phillips
An activity's usefulness to society is not based on the expenditure of calories performing said activity. Lending money is a risk to the lender.
Daniel Bailey
God, National Socialists are fucking daft
Kayden Richardson
>regulation and lawsuit liability being a drain that multiplies across each product reducing their wage buying power to nothing I fail to see how libertarianism doesn't address this. Free market is one of its main talking points and with that comes less regulation, the freedom to make contracts any way you want and expose yourself to risk of legal repercussions that you're comfortable with and the free market is of course just plain better at improving economic growth leading to higher living standards in the long run for all classes.
>In the effort to give each boomer 5 more years of life each millenial will give 10 years of wages. Wealth transfers aren't a part of the libertarian program. The boomers should've planned ahead instead of voting themselves benefits.
>Libertarianism would not give most people the answer to healthcare most want Kinda already addressed this. But again, the private sector does it better and more efficiently. Being more efficient isn't some autistic measure of dollars. In very real terms it means it costs less and more people survive.
Eli Lopez
Taxation isn't theft because I willfully give some of my earnings to the state. If I willfully give my money to someone, they aren't stealing from me.
Jose Brown
get a brain instead
Wyatt Nelson
I don't think the founding fathers were actually libertarians. They were racists and sexists, many of them were religious and militantly so (although some were deists/agnostics). I personally think that the founding fathers, especially Washington and Hamilton would lean toward fascism/national socialism.
Dylan Hill
this is good advice
Chase Gray
exploreistaxationtheft.com/ Look at this website for 2 minutes, if you don't, you're an intellectual coward.
David Reed
>trying to choose between two political ideologies >the two are diametrically opposed >learning resources are youtube
Cameron Martin
How about libertarian Contitutional republicanism?
Isaiah Foster
Yes, because fucking over your clients doesn't negatively effect your business. Wait, that's only in places where it's expensive to start a business thanks to permits and whatnot.
Owen Sullivan
Or minarchism?
James Bailey
We had that, now it turned to the shit we have now. Terrible idea. Abolish the state and prevent any easily manipulatable centralization of power.
Jacob Hill
That must be exactly why Apple, Heineken, Nike, Pepsi, McDonalds and other degenerate multinationals are so afraid to donate to political causes such as judeo-left no? Because they're afraid of ancaps who will damage their market.
I mean things are getting better, but it's the natsocs that're doing all the boycotts, it's them who are organizing, not ancaps.
I hate to bring in that argument, but technology should allow for people to spend more time with their families. With ancap and free market, there will be no labour market regulations, which means no 30-hour work week.
You can DELET 80% of jobs in transport in the next 50 years. They won't exist if marxists won't do something stupid to save them. I'm talking to you as somebody who studies AI.
With ANCAP, it's people who adjust to the market, now why don't we adjust the market to the people.
I'm not talking huge property violations. I'm talking labour market regulation.
Josiah Morris
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Jason Ward
how can the poor people working at McBurger afford healthcare though? Just because the market isn't regulated dosen't mean healthcare will suddenly be super affordable. Also isn't mans greatest incentive to enslave other men to him? Even in a free market their will still be the rich trying to keep the poor down in every way possible in order to get cheap labour. This is my problem with ANCAP there is no SOCIAL UNITY with a common goal or care for it's people. It's a completely self absorbed and will DEFINITELY lead to degeneracy.
Why can't said wage slaves just go start their own business?
Eli Diaz
What if we made it literally impossible to increase the power of the government through Constitutional stuff?
My concern with ancapism is that foreign nations might buy land with their vast resources and then enforce their laws on that land, thus gradually enroaching on the land of ancapistan one plot of land at a time.
Logan Turner
Perfect. To achieve the type of society ancaps REALLY want, we'd have to remove a lot of conditioning.
And niggers
Joseph Hill
The Libertarian counterpoint is that everyone doesn't consent to taxation, nor to everything that tax money go toward funding. Some people don't want to be forced to fund abortions, or war for example. Those people are then not voluntarily giving money to the state, its being taken through them by a system which relies on force. You could argue that by living in America you agree to a kind of social contract which stipulates taxation is a necessary fact of life, but then people will just argue whether or not the social contract is a real thing since people aren't voluntarily born in to a place of their choosing.
The correct Fash/NatSoc argument is that it is human nature to have individuals sacrifice something for the greater good. Parents sacrifice for the family, families sacrifice for the community, so on and so forth. This is a natural order of things which has existed since we lived in tribal societies. Man's role in the world hasn't changed, we haven't evolved beyond our own instincts, and we thrive best when society is structured more closely to what comes natural for us.
Chase Brown
We have that. How's it been working out for us? The most prosperous time in American history 1980-1900 had the most unregulated market and had the fastest decreasing poverty and highest increasing standard of living.
The basic argument i got is >Some people don't want to be taxed therefore the government is stealing from them when they are But that doesn't really matter, since most people do and the people that do would obviously want everyone to also pay, and so would be willing to steal from them. So I guess in the end, taxes are just the majority stealing from the minority, but the minority are unproductive so fuck em'.
Jordan Bell
Another ancap already answered this in this thread, scroll up if you're interested or look at this.
Levi Gutierrez
National Socialism is not the same as Fascism. Stop saying they are.
Other than that. Fascism makes a country strong and establishes trust in the government.
AnCap is wierd don't understand it's morals.
See
Jaxon Rivera
Ive the exact same struggle.
>tfw i know ancap is the best ideology >tfw that ideology will never happen if we dont save the white race first >tfw only a fascist gov with a strong eugenics program could solve this mess and make an ancap society realistic >mfw im only what is needed for an ancap future
>I live in Los Angeles so if I say I'm a fascist some nigger-commie will burn down my apartment complex. >talking about politics outside of pol
why do people do this ? everybody's politics is so boring, superficial and predictable outside of here. You gain nothing but frustration and boredom
Jonathan Howard
Yet your "golden age" created the Jewish Rockefeller dynasty, and allowed for the Jews to take greater control of the world economy.
Jacob Hill
Americans are closer to agreeing with fascism that they know and its not bad either
Lucas Howard
I used to think fascism was wrong, but now I'm not so sure.
Anthony Perez
>Watching mostly Cultured-Thug and Hans Herman Hoppe videos but can't decide which ideology is best or which movement to put my energy into Take a step back and take time to form your opinions. Don't force views on yourself and take the time to think about it all. Read several books on fascism and anarcho-capitalism from a variety of perspectives and come to your own conclusion. Find middle ground, or choose a different ideology based on YOUR OWN opinions. Definitely read Hoppe and get into Austrian economics (through Rothbard) for the best understanding of economics which will also mold your opinions. Good luck
Logan Ward
Who the fuck cares?
Nicholas Moore
I've been going through this dilemma also. I feel like a fascist state that enforces a white and black ethno state that then progresses into separated libertarian ones would work
Adam Turner
Just suck a dick OP, that's what you're really confused about. Might like it. Boot licking or child slaves, those are your choices
