Why are men blamed for women not entering stem. Shouldn't we be blaming women?

Why are men blamed for women not entering stem. Shouldn't we be blaming women?

Other urls found in this thread:

ironedcurtains.com/2017/05/16/girls-in-tech-its-not-so-simple/
money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/high-school-teacher/salary
data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2012/211-everett-school-district/employees/
us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/
bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Because they can't handle being responsible for their own lives

Hmmm, I would like to to blame them for more things...

Blaming men does nothing. Recognizing that social biases have existed and continue to exist that subtly push women away from wanting to do computer science, engineering, and physics and into life sciences or social sciences is important.
Similarly, there is a social stigma against men doing many performance arts, teaching, and child care.

related
>ironedcurtains.com/2017/05/16/girls-in-tech-its-not-so-simple/

>Picture this: 1986. At the Belarusian Polytechnic Institute in the Robotics Department. Majoring in Applied Mathematics. First year, second semester, first day of the class called “Theory of Algorithms. “The professor walks in, takes one look at us, and utters, “Where is our science going?” Our class consisted of three boys and 47 girls.

>basically, given the choice, women will shy away from stem/tech because they can

I wasn't aware that anyone was blaming men. Where does blame even factor into this argument?

Why are you trying positing this loaded question with the bloated conclusion that blame should be emphasized on one group rather than the other when you can't even prove that it's happening?

Victim-politics
White straight Christian males (WSCM) are assumed to be all powerful dominate monsters
Social Justice warriors (SJW) do not want ANY occupation/place to be dominated by WSCM
STEM majors are dominated by WSCM so they MUST be "corrected" by SJW

Facts: in USA MAJORITY of college degrees are to women
Fact: the National Basketball Association (NBA) is proportional under represented by SWCM BUT SJW will NEVER complain about this

What?
"blaming men" is literally the only point of rhetoric regarding the topic.

the worst part in all of this is that people think

inequality = oppression

Feminist blame the patriarchy aka men for this. they've already managed to convince most people that women get paid less due to sexism and not personal choices they make.

Stem is competitive. Women are in general, not competitive.

It's literally impossible to have equality when double standards exist.

lack of role models for young girls, same thing like with i don't know, men and hairdressers

we should introduce womens quota

It's kinda funny seeing all these academics and thinktanks asking themselves how to get more women into STEM.

From the sci/math classes i've taken, most women will drop out after the first exam. They just can't handle calculus/physics/linear algebra, in particular.

And its the women's fault for not studying hard enough. Don't blame me because you'd rather flirt with chad than open the goddamn textbook.

>Why are men blamed for women not entering stem. Shouldn't we be blaming women?

It's literally a non issue.

They will find literally ANYTHING that men do more often/better/etc than women, and use it as an excuse to attempt to emasculate and shame the native male population.

It's a psychological warfare tactic.

why does it matter if there are few women in a profession?

This. Women who actually blame men are a loud dumb minority. Most women are well aware it's a problem in society as a whole.

These groups (as well as your opinions of them) exist as buzz words or disparate groups that have no impact on my life or lie completely outside any sphere of influence upon my world.

There are statistically less women in STEM, but the number of women that enroll in STEM continues to grow each year. Statistically, there are also more women enrolled in college than men and this trend is also increasing.

With those statistics, I can make a topic and posit questions around which hypothesis could be formed. These questions could be what factors have led an increase in women in STEM and the reasons for that trend. Why have their historically been less women in STEM and does that correlate past and current trends in women's enrollment in higher education, and what are the significant reasons that more females hold a college degree compared to males in general and comparing current female enrollment compared to males in higher education.

OP, simply states that women are not entering STEM and that men are being blamed. It is a poor question because it can be shown that women are entering STEM, and that an upwards trend of women entering STEM and graduating with STEM degrees is increasing each year.

TL;DR. Shit topic to introduce echo chamber bullshit debate on a falsifiable, unquantifiable hypothesis asserted by the author (OP)

Please go back to Sup Forums.

This isn't even close to a scientific debate

Tell it senpai

Men always take the blame because women are perfect, apparently.

>wife cheats on you
>lol it's your fault that you're cuck

>women use you for free stuff while dating
>lol its your fault that you have bad taste in women

>women choose to take the easy route in life by not studying STEM subjects
>lol it's because you're oppressing her

So what can really by done then? How do we change these societal influences?

>Where does blame even factor into this argument?

Blame can be important, because that's the mechanism that you use to identify what's wrong, so that it can be fixed.

For example, when I am debugging code, I have only one goal: to find which line of code to blame for the bug. Without the concept of blame, I would not be able to make any progress in fixing the bug. In general, progress is not possible without the usage of blame to find what needs fixing.

Some people claim that not enough women in STEM is a "problem". If that's the case, then blame needs to be assigned so that the "problem" can be fixed.

If you don't view it as a "problem", then no blame is required, because there's nothing to fix.

>why does it matter if there are few women in a profession?

Because the jews want there to be less goy scientists and engineers, so they will limit their numbers to goy scientistesses and engineeresses.

Thus destroying the west's military capacity.

>This isn't even close to a scientific debate

True, but that doesn't matter because jews control grant money, right?

I see what you mean, but the difference between society and computer code is that sometimes the original cause of a problem in society isn't inherently connected to the current problem

the least you could do is pretend to try to be subtle

>Why are men blamed for women not entering stem. Shouldn't we be blaming women?
Women have lower IQs than men. And their brains work differently and they don't excel at abstract reasoning.

SJWs cannot deal with that because they believe that intelligence is a learned skill and a social construct (they also believe that race is a social construct as well but that's a diff story).

They are blaming their fathers... any stick you are recieving is just blowback from daddy issues...

>sometimes the original cause of a problem in society isn't inherently connected to the current problem

Most software bugs also follow this pattern.

I have encountered many software bugs where the original cause of the problem isn't inherently connected to the actual reported problem. In software bugs, sometimes the chain of causality can be long, indirect, unintuitive, and even convoluted. Just like in social issues.

>the least you could do is pretend to try to be subtle

too late game now.... they in it to win it, and they is late.

IT's a statue of liberty play... they runnin for da end zone.

Next months major science grant: "Why white men need to be killed off, but not white jews"

People discourage girls from going into math and science.

Unlike boys. Why, I remember being the most popular kid at my high school when I told them I wanted to be a math major. All the dumb football players wanted to be me

More exposure, more awareness, and more calling people out on their prejudice. It's a social movement, it takes time, a change of mindset, and sometimes for the older generation to retire.

And what if centuries pass us by and men still dominate STEM? At what point can we give up?

Awareness, non-prejudice, and ample exposure aren't things you give up on... It should just be the norm forever. Even if men dominate STEM, women shouldn't have to be at a disadvantage and subject to social stigma.

I mean at what point can we stop specifically trying to get girls into it while not trying nearly as hard to get boys?

So tell me more about inequality crisis in teaching and nursing, and what's being done to stop it.

>People discourage girls from going into math and science.

FUCKING WHO?

We should never stop demonstrating STEM as a realistic choice for anybody interested in it. So we should never give up on trying to get anyone underrepresented in STEM into STEM.

Society has lots of problems, including an extremely strong expectation of masculinity from males. But the effort goes where the money is first. Men are pushed to the higher paying jobs so they don't complain about being underrepresented as low-paid teachers and nurses. It will be up to men as a whole to demand those jobs if they want them. That doesn't exist right now.

>We should never stop demonstrating STEM as a realistic choice for anybody interested in it.
> for anybody interested in it

If someone's interested in it, they surely realize it's a realistic choice. Nobody hides the fact that there are jobs.

>So we should never give up on trying to get anyone underrepresented in STEM into STEM.

And what if the reason a group is underrepresented is a lack of interest so profound that it persists through decades of trying to push them into STEM?

>low-paid teachers and nurses
What planet are you living on? Teachers make $70-80k a year, which is more than most of the posters on /sci/ will ever make. Nurses make $50-60k a year with only two years of schooling. Get the fuck out you sexist retard.

public K-12 teachers in the US absolutely do not make 70-80K

Yes they do. Check the stats. Ever wonder where all that money goes when politicians talk about increasing funding for education?

2/10 bait for actually getting me to google this nonsense

money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/high-school-teacher/salary

Even if that data wasn't a lowball estimate, they would still make as much as most engineers. Which is ironic considering how much women are crying over not being given preferential treatment in that field.

Also here are actual salaries from my local school district. Most have between $80k to $100k in total compensation.

data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2012/211-everett-school-district/employees/

>If someone's interested in it, they surely realize it's a realistic choice. Nobody hides the fact that there are jobs.
Yes, but letting that interest develop in the first place is a serious problem faced by the underrepresented. There are lots of women not interested in STEM who may have been if they were exposed to it more, and shown that it's not just a profession for men. You'd be surprised how much subtle stigma can effect lifestyle and decisions.
>And what if the reason a group is underrepresented is a lack of interest so profound that it persists through decades of trying to push them into STEM?
It doesn't matter. Anti-prejudice and anti-stigma should be the norm. It's not some temporary effort to tip the scales. Anyone underrepresented in STEM should be shown opportunity in STEM, always.

>should
When will we get our affirmative action ij teaching and nursing? After all, we *should* have it since it's right, not because there's demand for it.

>data.spokesman.com/salaries/schools/2012/211-everett-school-district/employees/
Hardly any of the salaries in the link you posted are anywhere near that range.

Including "bonuses and stipends" most of them are over 70K (not 80-100K for hardly any of them, still). It's nice that they get those, but it sucks that they have to depend on it (because their actual salary is much lower).

I don't see why you'd include benefits like insurance and stuff.

Also, Washington pays teachers better than the average state.

It takes 2 seconds to show them the opportunity. After that, they either take it or they don't.

Those $20k+ bonus checks are part of their contract. It's effectively unreported salary. If teachers are so underpaid elsewhere then post your local district.

more concerning than lack of women in stem is lack of the transgendered.

>Women have lower IQs than men.
Well at least 30% of the people above 130 IQ are women based on mensa statistics

us.mensa.org/learn/about/demographics/

women only score worse on IQ tests when too much spatial reasoning is involved, the reverse is true when you focus on verbal

there might be a small difference but idk

are 30% of stem people women? assuming you need a 130+ IQ to be in stem (which is probably too high)

It's not an issue of affirmative action (especially since it doesn't work the way you think it does). But I'm all for a movement to end the masculinity stigma that exists in society. It's a harsh burden on men and is not really talked about. You're right in that regard.

Meritocracy > affirmative action

You're not getting it. You don't want to be a nurse, right? Why is that? Because you're an overflowing tank of testosterone, and nursing is for dainty little hands and vaginas? If it paid well and didn't have the feminine stigma, there's no reason it wouldn't be a typical job for men as well.

a lot of the bonuses are less than 20K but ok?

Teachers, on average, make a lot less than you've said.

bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000

What the fuck is "Intelligence Quotient"? Just an arbitrary test based on someone else's arbitrary idea of what "intelligence" is.

Deeply unscientific joke science. Get back in your lane.

No, I don't want to be a nurse because I have no interest in medicine and because I'm squeamish.

Also I have a talent that can make me more money elsewhere.

What kind of pathetic fucking retard would avoid a job he's interested in because "it's for girls"? Is that how stupid women are? They honestly don't go into science because they're scared of being perceived as manly?

PS, idk if you've ever seen a math department but the men there aren't exactly pinnacles of stereotypical masculinity. They're weak nerds.

They also work only 9 months out of the year and get a shit ton of time off

>I'm all for a movement
Then why aren't you or anyone else doing anything about it? You are paying lipservice in order to cover for an ideology that is hostile towards men.

If you want to talk about invisible institutional biases, how about we talk about all the free handouts that women get while still demanding more?

Need help with your homework? 10+ guys are waiting at the ready to do the entire assignment for you in hopes of getting a date.

Need help with paying for school? Have your boyfriend for it.

Need a job? Show some cleavage and get hired into management because you're a "good communicator."

These were all things that I observed firsthand with the women in my engineering program, and even somewhat in my own gf. You're completely deluded if you don't think there are institutional biases in favor of women.

That's great, but we were talking salary.

>it's not a desireable job because it doesn't meet this strict semantic definition of the word "salary"
You're really reaching here.

60k for working only 3 quarters of the year isn't the travesity you make it out to be. Teachers can also be involved in after school programs and get paid more or pick up a summer job.

>People discourage girls from going into math and science.

proof?

At what point did I ever imply it's not a desirable job? Not once, ever.

You brought up salary, and you were wrong. Then you started trying to move goalposts and put words in my mouth.

>At what point did I ever imply it's not a desirable job?

Right here:
>But the effort goes where the money is first. Men are pushed to the higher paying jobs so they don't complain about being underrepresented as low-paid teachers and nurses. It will be up to men as a whole to demand those jobs if they want them. That doesn't exist right now.

Get out you dishonest bigot.

>Teachers can also be involved in after school programs and get paid more
wow, I never realized that teachers have the unique ability to take a second job and make more money after already working all day. It's not like anybody else can do the same

wow you really got me there

I too can use inspect element

Hang on I don't think I'm done making fun of you yet. I just realized that even the OTHER guy (not me) who you quoted, thinking it was me, didn't even say what you accused me of saying.

He just said that teaching was a "low-paid" job.

...

...

>Men are pushed to the higher paying jobs

Men chase the higher paying jobs by themselves, they aren't "pushed" to them.
One of the reasons they do it is to attract the opposite sex, who wants to find a provider instead of busting their ass at work themselves.

>Similarly, there is a social stigma against men doing many performance arts, teaching, and child care.
This is what 90s kids actually believe.

Dude, what do you think my opinion on women in STEM even is?

I've merely been having a very matter of fact argument with you about teaching salaries. I don't see why you think you can possibly know whether I'm "bigoted".

Is saying that teachers don't make 70-80K bigoted?

Men in child care are all pedos.

You're saying "equality" is really just a one-way street against evil men. You're a bigot in an egalitarian's clothing.

Come back when you're actually interested in equality instead of female supremacism.

No I'm not. You're a hysterical retard who slaps labels like "bigot" on anyone who argues with you, even about the most incredibly mundane, matter-of-fact shit like how much teachers make.

It's a valid point that men are institutionally underrepresented in certain female-dominated fields if we're talking about how men should take positive action to give more freebies to women.

>I'm a monkey and ignore the core aspect of your argument

You aren't taking into account that they work much less overall each year. How many other jobs have so many weeks off and summer off?

you (or the person I replied to) mentioned the possibility of making extra money "after school".

That's quite worthy of mockery, since pretty much any job allows you to work another job after working your first one.

Don't throw in stupid points along with valid ones if you don't want to be made fun of.

Anyways, look piggot. If the best thing you can say about a job is that it allows you to get other jobs, then how great can that job really be?

Women don't go into STEM because they're biologically inclined to be disinterested in STEM.

Remember when white knighting was grounds for pic related? Pepperbridge Farms remembers.

mostly biology majors desu tho

There's a social stigma about men doing teaching and childcare because women have pushed the "every man is a pedophile" shtick. Thanks.
Women wanted to take control of all the teaching jobs so that they can indoctrinate children into feminist and cuckoldry early on. We shouldn't give women anything, they're shit.

Too many white knights in the white race we will never get anything done until misogynistic assholes are the majority again. All white knights want to do is impress girls and be slaves to them fucking disgusting.

I believe that the past few decades have been great for realizing the potential of underrepresented groups in STEM.

In particular for women. We have seen a very significant increase in the success of women in STEM. And while some of it has definitely been just passing incompetent women no matter how bad they are, I think overall it has been positive.

I'm happy to welcome genuinely talented women into math, and STEM in general. Something needed to change and people worked to change it and it did a lot of good.

But I also wonder if we've reached a point of diminishing returns. The current generation of college aged women have known nothing but the artificial cultural push to encourage women to go into STEM. Theyve been told nothing their entire life except that women are as smart as men and they can do anything men can do. And they've been favored over men for admissions and employment.


So it's time to ask the question: how long should we do this? At what point do we just tell women that they're on their own and good luck? When can we stop treating them like stupid babies?

The elephant in the room that everyone is conviently ignoring is the competitiveness of STEM fields. We are having this conversation like we all agree that there is enough room for everyone to work together on technical/scientific problems that is not the case. We as STEM majors are clawing over one another to get into that graduate school and get this high paying R&D gig, etc. There is money and glory to be harvested out of the disciplines of STEM, and there are those who want to get as much as they can of both.

Of course men are threatened by women entering going on a war path to carve a place for them in STEM, they should be. Not only is that more people to compete with bit people with a novelty that gives them an edge that they don't have. To answer your question for how long this is going to go on for. The answer is for as long as it can. And the answer to that is not to stop them. It is to organize as men and work to dominate the other half that we don't fall under. And we must so this not by hindering the success of the opposition but by putting work into ourselves to become smarter and more competent than women.

Give them a seat at the table. And table then Blow them the fuck out fair and square. Simple as that organize and fight for the finite amount of positions to get all that sweet money and glory.

Proofread post

>And we must so this
And we must do this

>And table then
And then

Sup Forums is anonymous reddit now. Time to abandon ship

Nobody is to blame, everyone is just minimizing their path integral.

>Give them a seat at the table. And table then Blow them the fuck out fair and square. Simple as that organize and fight for the finite amount of positions to get all that sweet money and glory.

There's no such thing as fair and square in their eyes, you retard. Even if you improve yourself and beat them fair and square, they'll just chalk it up to systemic bias and patriarchy and whatnot and use that as an excuse for more and more quotas and affirmative action. Then you'll have to improve yourself even more to fight for less spots, and once you finally get those spots they'll just keep screaming patriarchy and the cycle repeats ad infinitum.

Are you retarded? If 30% of people with high IQ's are women, who do you think the remaining 70% are?
>inb4 "hurr durr I said at least 30% not exactly 30%"

We tried that already, and they still screamed patriarchy. Now women have an institutional advantage in stem, and we're still beating them, and they're still blaming "oppression". It'll never be enough, they'll keep demanding more until someone says no.

50 years ago women dominated math and computer science fields.

Pedophiles are overwhelmingly men.

>no impact on my life

How naive and foolish. Where have you been for the past decade?

>muh statistics

You're assuming those in question have the same rationalizing skills as you. Simply pointing at upward trends does not imply that a certain group of people is not being wrongfully targeted for a frankly retarded misconstrusion of higher-academic enrollment.

This is not a bad question.

It is certainly not "falsifiable" as you claim. Maybe from the perspective of a rational thinking individual, but not to the group in question - the group that has no impact on our lives (I'm being sarcastic here).

>Women wanted to take control of all the teaching jobs so that they can indoctrinate children into feminist and cuckoldry early on. We shouldn't give women anything, they're shit.

...

>what is affirmative action and disadvantaging whites/asians

At the very least, it's a very prominent social stigma. Playing the blame game is a regressive tactic at the forefront of many groups TODAY that seem to carry some influence over the masses as well as a respectable degree of political power.

Just this past week I was at work and on my Windows 10 screen saver was "Less than 8% of women go into STEM." How much do you want to bet there was something behind that link placing blame on men as a whole?