'Free will' he says

>Tell me more about how the laws of physics stop at the periphery of your brain.

Go on.

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wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/
youtube.com/watch?v=dOOQ1ZCeMY4
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

???

wired.com/story/new-math-untangles-the-mysterious-nature-of-causality-consciousness/

>Agency doesn’t exist among the atoms, and so reductionism suggests agents don’t exist at all: that Romeo’s desires and psychological states are not the real causes of his actions, but merely approximate the unknowably complicated causes and effects between the atoms in his brain and surroundings.
>Hoel’s theory, called “causal emergence,” roundly rejects this reductionist assumption.
>“Causal emergence is a way of claiming that your agent description is really real,” said Hoel, a postdoctoral researcher at Columbia University who first proposed the idea with Larissa Albantakis and Giulio Tononi of the University of Wisconsin, Madison.
>“If you just say something like, ‘Oh, my atoms made me do it’—well, that might not be true. And it might be provably not true.”

what else did your technopriest tell you?

You don't honestly believe that the cause of our emotions and motivations is interactions between subatomic particles, do you? Do you have any grasp of complex abstract systems at all?

> consciousness
> comprehendable

>You don't honestly believe

About your father, did he talk to you like that?

was he a well man?

When you have little knowledge or information on a given subject one may come off as incoherent and pompously clueless.

For whatever bullshit you're reading, try going past chapter 1.

der wille zur macht

fag

It doesn't matter whether everything you do is in fact caused or not. What matters is the attitude you adopt towards life, and the decisions that you make. And if you believe "I have agency over my life", then you're probably going to life a much more productive life than if you think "I can't control my actions, they're all caused, I have to do X because of things that have happened to me".

Change your attitude.

Do you understand complex systems at all? Because the cause of pretty much everything is interaction between subatomic particles.
Don't even know what the fuck you are saying.

Because muh quantum probability distribution and muh Bell's theorem

>change your attitude
>not change your altitude

free will is the work of satanic jewish bloodline elite. the only right way is the will of God. Remember a people without morales cannot self rule.

He thinks the subatomic particles are just afk for everything in life except when a partical accelerator is throwing them around.

>brain
>he's a meatsack

Are you fucking retarded? Your decision to change your attitude is predetermined too, as are the choices you make while living with your "new" attitude.

Gay twat.

How will you submit yourself to the will of God, overcome your animalistic nature without free will?

Free will is a muscle, if you don't exercise it daily it will be atrophied, that's all there is to it.

Morality sometimes brings happiness to those it happens to occur in.

And why should I care?

>Thus, our experience of the "I", our identification of it with the commandeering thought, itself requires an explanation: why do we not identify ourselves with the commanded feelings and movements? Why do we instead identify ourselves with the superiority of the commandeering thought? ..."Freedom of the will" — that is the word for the multi-faceted state of pleasure of one who commands and, at the same time, identifies himself with the accomplished act of willing. ...The commandeering thought, with which we identify because it gives us a feeling of superiority, is not in fact identical with anything that actually stands in a causal relationship with the resultant action. ...
When we describe someone as having a free will we are describing a biological trait, the same as when we call someone tall, smart, strong etc. It basically means they have a strong frontal lobe and executive function. These sort of people will be under the "delusion", according to nihilists, that they are control over themselves. It is a useful delusion even if it is a delusion. I'll continue to believe it.

Number exist on a higher plane than that of the abacus.
Consciousness exists on a higher plane than that of the neuron.

I don't fall for the free will meme, but for the record this should have nothing to do with God or morality.

Pleasure island isn't a choice, it's a destiny.

Your room 'happened' to be messy so what if you 'don't happen' to clean it.

That is exactly the cause of emotions. And basically everything else that takes place in the universe.

all extrinsic events are random

all intrinsic events are the product of free will

LaPlace's demon? BEGONE!

Why try to sort that which you have no control over.

Be an observer of the chaos, it's all you ever were.

take drugs.

You're an ignorant fool. Clearly something is happening in our brains that physics, biology, or any other science has anything to say about. It's called the "hard problem of consciousness." Science doesn't even address it because science has recognized it has very little to say on the issue. There might be a purely material explanation of the issue, but for now that seems difficult to even comprehend how that will work.

youtube.com/watch?v=dOOQ1ZCeMY4

The simplest explanation is that our individual soul manifests direct alteration of reality, although subdued and muted it may be.

We come from creation, and though we're firmly planted in this physical ring of the universe, the energy of creation from which we are derived still strives to manipulate all we experience through us.

Based Brit. I've been thinking of the consequences of determinism recently and this idea has come up.

You're an idiot.

Free Will only exists as much as Government. It's a thought-object, a state which only exists if the individual who holds it believes that it does. This is the crux of the concept: In order for Free Will to exist you must create it as it certainly does not exist without the "actor" let's say.

Does believing your life isn't a script actually grant you the quality of making decisions for yourself? That depends on your definition of what is and is not, what is real and what is not. People would argue that God does not exist despite the fact that the Idea of God exists in their minds.

While I enjoy philosophy and existential conundrums the question of Free Will is a problem with no solution. You are either an organism with agency according to your will or you are an organism with no agency at all. I would rather stand on the thin white line in the middle and rage against the universe and its machinations than surrender to them.

What about amnesia? If we do have souls that define us and to a certain extent control our actions, how is it that physical trauma could lead to someone forgetting everything about themselves. In a sense, becoming a different person.

My two cents:

"Free will" as it actively impacts decision making is essentially binary: everything we do, no matter how complicated, can be boiled down to a series of yes/no decisions.

Ex. "What shirt out of sixteen shirts I own will I wear?"
>Light colored? No.
>Dark colored? Yes.
>Red? No.
>Green? No.
>Blue? Yes.

Etx. ad infinitum. Our minds (and I saw an article on this point recently that was interesting) as human beings are essentially reality simulators, where - to a much greater capacity than other animals - we are constantly figuring out and extrapolating the likely outcomes of our binary decision making.

Ex. Child A prososes something to Child B
>Child B runs through scenarios mentally
>Tells Child A: "We shouldn't do that because it will make dad angry."

Lower lifeforms don't have this capacity to our degree and some don't have it at all.

A plant acts according to stimuli.
An ant to stimuli and instinct.
A dog to stimuli, instinct, and learned behavior.
A chimp, raven, or an octopus to the above, with a capacity for novel innovations (Ex. figuring out a tool and remembering to use it.)

However, only in man does the capacity exist to decide on short term courses that will impact the ability to make decisions down the line.

Ex 1. "I would like to be stronger, ergo I must prioritize strength training. The best ways to do this are..."

Ex. 2. "I would like to know more about this subject to be able to one day accomplish something complex with this knowledge."

You may say, "But we do these things a deterministic manner, according to our inherent nature." Which may be true. But a man may embark on courses that he can reasonably predict will change his very nature and kmowingly choose paths which influence the paths he will take at a later date.

Thus, the illusion of free will is indistinguishable from true agency. Same way as we couldn't tell the difference with a reasonably complex machine. No sleep lost on so fine a split hair.

To say that randomness does not occur in nature is not accurate.

Quantum Waveforms are ordered and deterministic until observed, then they collapse into a new random waveform. It's impossible to predict because it only happens when it is observed. The act of observing it disrupts the order and randomizes it.

Radioactive decay also happens randomly. There is no method by which to determining which atom in a radioactive material will decay next.

So it's not impossible to have randomness in the precursors of chemical interactions in the brain.

Our brains are the instrument, and damaged instruments cannot properly play music.

That would be fine except that it seems memories are indeed stored in physically in the brain. I.e. If we know the right neural network to remove we could remove the memory. It doesn't really contradict what you first suggested, but it does seem to say those things that we base our individuality on (our memories) are distinct from this soul you are proposing.

Explain how exactly you, as a person operating without freewill, will suddenly have it by (((deciding))) to change your life.

You have one british bong to formulate a response, ruddy queer.

Came here to say that the illusion of free will is indistinguishable from free will and this user said it perfectly.

Think of memories as data cached in your PC's ram.

The brain is the hard drive.

>your soul is the user

You don't. But it is incorrect to say that because free will doesn't exist, your thoughts and mental states do not have any effect on the world.

It may be the case that you don't have a choice, but believing you have a choice is better for your life and like so many things to do with our minds, belief is more important than truth.

>my atoms made me do it

They did though

I kind of like your analogy. It lines up with what I'm saying. Just like you can really tell anything about a computer user based on the operations of he computer (you can only make educated guesses). So too can we not really tell anything about our souls based on our memories and other mental states, only educated guesses.

It's all god's fault.

Wrong way to think of it.

Associating yourself with the properties of the universe does not devalue yourself... it gives you a better view of the nature of the universe itself, of your reality, and your place within it.

Stop thinking of the universe as dead matter. It is alive just as much as you are. The causal chains that connect you with everything that ever was or will be are made of only one thing... information.

That is the fundamental building block of reality. Materialism is false, and misleading. That the laws of physics apply to your own mind does NOT mean that the soul is made up of atoms. It means that atoms, and the universe by extension, is made up of soul stuff.

I know that sounds like a pothead "revelation" but I mean that seriously.

Also: sort yourself out.

Thanks boss. Another tangentially related topic that I think is similar post-modern hair splitting: whether or not we live in a simulation.

For me, it's a totally moot point because knowledge of it makes no operational difference on how I would live my life (similar to whether or not there is a God.)

Because it's the same thing. I'm a construct of different cell colonies, composed of individual cells that will all live and die and be replaced multiple times over while I live. Those cells contain compounds and chemicals that swap out. Those chemicals are composed of molecules, then atoms, then protons/neutrons, then quarks, and down and down and down.

What difference does it make to me in my daily life if there's a bottom layer of quantim strings or machine code? How is one more quantifiably "real" than the other? At the end of the day, I'm a consciousness inhabiting a changing cloud of particles.

Similarly, what does it matter if there's no God, or instead that God is some Quantum Sleestak slapping an omni-keyboard in the "real" universe? Who cares? (Also, it's a fun parallel to think that, if that's the case, then it's a way for God to "exist outside of space and time.")

The more Stoic philosophy I read, the more I agree that the last century of philosophy has been metaphysical sophistry, pointless hair-splitting and dissection of "consciousness" that doesn't matter because we can't know. Philosophy that doesn't lead to improvement in your life and society is just pseudo-intellectual mental maturbation and Aurelius/Seneca already figured out that we are either divine sparks or "a cloud of atoms" millennia ago. It didn't matter then and it doesn't matter now.

It's autism user. We live as a part in the eternal conversation the universe has with itself. Just try and make your part something worth hearing.

This isn't an explanation it's pure conjecture, it's an unfalsifiable claim. You can't disprove the existence of souls because there is nothing to disprove.

That's what I do and the exact point I'm making.

Good on you user.

This guy understand.