Bush 2008?

Was he solely and singlehandedly 100% responsible for the housing crash as some claim?

Partially cause of his shit tax reform, mostly cause of predatory (((Banks)))

No, he was hardly responsible at all. It was mostly the fault of the Federal Reserve under Alan Greenspan which slashed rates to 1% and left them around there for far too long (a couple of years) in the aftermath of the tech bubble bursting and 9/11 attacks. This caused the housing bubble to inflate in the first place, the bubble would not have come about had rates been higher. Incidentally, the current "Everything Bubble" across the entire world is also primarily the fault of central banks - the Fed, ECB, BoJ, BOE and SNB this time.

Wasn't just Bush. His dad and Clinton were in on the gag, along with the Fed. Total NWO hitjob.

No, but his plans did not help. Medicare part D, the wars and his dumb tax cuts were bad and dumb.

the jews are responsible, and he is a puppet of the jews. Thats all you need to know.

Not at all, although regulation should have stopped it from happening.

Generally, recessions come every 10-15 years as shit becomes worth more.

Actually we're due one before Trump's first term is up.

You're leaving out the Community Reinvestment Act mandating reduced mortgage lending standards for particular communities, and the role of mismanagement at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Hell, I was contracted in 2008 to write software to track how much Fannie Mae was losing (as well as the status of all their non-performing loans) in real time, because they were still doing all that shit manually.

Here's one for you guys.

Was Obama right to rampantly borrow money to help the US recover? I mean the national debt was WW2 levels high.

This.

He basically passed a grenade to the banks and blamed them for its explosion.

Indeed government policies also played a key role along with the GSEs of Fannie and Freddie. But it was still the Federal Reserve which was the driver, they ignited the spark for the crisis to occur and provided the fuel to keep it going - FF and government policies/acts simply added yet more fuel to the fire.

No. It might be useful now, but the extra national debt just means that it just delayed the recession by many years instead of fixed it.

The tax cuts were one of the only things he did right. You need to lurk more as you're still suffering from some residual libshit indoctrination.

Tax revenue went up during the Bush years as a result of his cuts. When you cut taxes in an effective way, and the economy is stimulated, revenue increases despite that the rates are lower. Reagan did the same thing. It's called supply side economic theory.

Conservatism doesn't just mean fighting political correctness and Cultural Marxism, but it's a package deal. Conservatives are correct on economics as well. Too many "redpilled" former lib shitposters on here don't get that.

It started with Clinton who pressured the banks to make mortgage loans to inner city folks, who always have bad credit scores.

Another implosion caused by diversity.

Barny Franks the banking queen, numero uno.

Nope, he simply did nothing to discourage the sub prime morgages that were pushed in the 1990's-2008 by mostly democrats, but also some republicans under the guise of "home ownership is a RIGHT" (like how healthcare and college education are pushed as RIGHTS now)
TL:DR the government guaranteed the banks of a bailout of the risky loans they gave out went bad, so the banks gave out incredibly risky loans to poor people (disproportionately minorities) and then packaged those loans together and sold them as a dividend paying investment asset like stocks.
Eventually the interest rate was raised slightly and these poor people couldn't pay the loans, and they lost their homes, the investors lost their investment, and the banks lost some money, but got lots of houses and a nice taxpayer funded pay check (which they then gave some back to the politicians that cut the check originally)
So basically a socialist housing program masked as the free market

No, not at all, don't be an idiot.
It takes many years for a bubble to develop.
Pres Clinton set it up, making it so anyone that could fog a mirror could buy a house, especially minorities.

No. But Clinton 1.0 was.

this

this
>You need to lurk more as you're still suffering from some residual libshit indoctrination.
and especially this

This pretty much. He didnt cause the crash but he sure as fuck made it worse. I think a lot of people overestimate the power the government, especially the POTUS, has on the economy. The Fed and Treasury have arguably a bigger part.

By liberal logic he inherited the economy from the last president.. so it was all clintons fault.

>The Fed and Treasury have arguably a bigger part.
It's not even arguable, they DO have a FAR bigger impact
How you think tax cuts caused a bubble is beyond me

What's funny is that's actually correct in this case

explain to me how tax reform let bankers pass out loans like candy and then bundle them to bet on.

The crash of 2008 was caused by years of bad policy making. These mistakes were made worldwide.

>The Fed and Treasury have arguably a bigger part.
>arguably
>the private bank known as the Federal Reserve, can change a percentage point and destroy the economy, or print more money and make your savings worthless
>arguably

Bill clinton Jan 1993- Jan 2001
George Bush Jana 2001- Jan 2009
>Major 2008 Recession
>2008 Recession
>2008

Hmmmmmmmm

The crash is completely Bill Clinton's fault for getting rid of Glass-Steagall as well as the Federal Reserve's. I'm sure George Bush knew it was coming though and agreed to take the fall, they're all in on it

The fed doesn't take direct orders from the president retard

Of course not solely. He was still a piece of shit

No. His administration was. DoJ primarily. And he didn't hold DoJ accountable at all, so he gets the blame.

Fed creates environment. Administration does not enforce laws. DoJ does not keep punish fraud. Shit collapses. Administration and DoJ still don't do anything. Greenspan admits to bad policies. Administration and DoJ doesn't do shit. Blame Bush for not running his administration properly for whatever reason. Should have been impeached a looong time ago. He gave us Obama.

This. If anons want to talk shit about bushes economic policies then talk about his big spending and libshit programs to ensure banks have to give out loans to minorities and the poor or face federal discrimination investigations. Shit like that had a far greater impact on the housing crash than some user having to pay slightly less of his shekels to the government every payday.

I wasn't disputing the primacy of the Fed's policies in causing the meltdown; I was only saying that there were non-Fed causes as well. If I work in a coal mine and smoke three packs per day, then my eventual lung cancer will have multiple causes, each of which was likely sufficient on its own.

Yep. He personally signed every single mortgage. He then didn't make any of the payments. Trust Americans to try and blame someone else for their own fuckups

No these things take years to accumulate. It was set in motion by Clinton deregulating the financial sector.

not hardly
not that W did much to change things, but the banks had to loan to everyone equally, despite risk factors
>don't want to be mean to those poor folks
>they just want a better place to live (than they can afford)
>much better to end up foreclosing on them anyway and fuck up the whole credit system

It goes beyond Bush Jr., although he was a pimp for the REI. It really started back with Reagan, and every President since supported it and did things to support it. The deregulation under Reagan led to mortgages being bound together as investments, which is the root cause of all of it. Google the "Secondary Mortgage Market Enhancement Act", passed by Congress and signed by Reagan in 1984 - it's considered the impetus for the sub-prime crash.

His tax polices had nothing to do with the sub-prime crash and housing bubble, you fucking ignorant ass.

Congress passed a law insuring loans up to 700K for fair housing. If you are buying a 700K home you should not need USA to insure it. The congress =man Frank did this before the 2008 banking law. It also foced banks to make the loans. They did their best to sell them to Wall Street as quickly as possible. Then lenders found out they had to take the loans and put Wal-Mart check out people into 400-700K homes they could never pay for. After all that the securities on these homes cloapsed when they started foreclosing on the homes.

Derivatives, specifically CDOs caused it. The demand for AAA paper was insane, so the banks started to create fake AAA paper. They would package mortgages loans and support tranches of other MBS into CDOs , slice off 3% as support and sell the rest as AAA paper. Whatever was unsold, went into another CDO. Complete fraud, really.

Then they started shorting CDOs and bad MBS tranches with CDS. Since the banks didn't want to hold the wrong end of a CDS they created "synthetic" CDOs. basically cash invested at LIBOR + short CDS on bad shit that somebody smart shorted.

At some point all the synthetic paper rapidly went to zero and a lot of AAA bonds went to zero. The panic ensued. Everything with mortgages and house in it got dumped. All the spec house buyers strategically defaulted on their loans, and all the shit hit the fat at the same time.

Bush was a fuck up. Instead of addressing the real issue of fraud and the fact that Private label MBS are SR/SUB structures that wiped out all SUB supports at the same time, he blamed political enemies, like Fannie and Freddie (which were also fuck ups, but had no idea about CDOs game being played). The criminal aspect which created significant wealth destruction was never prosecuted. Actually it wasn't just MBS that defaulted in AAA CDOs. Pretty much all the collateral in a CDO is shit to begin with, so they all wiped out. Mortgages were still blamed. In 2008 instead of putting out fires, Paulson started personal revenge against institutions he didn't like which made everything worse.

Pretty much was a crime spree that resulted in another crime spree called Obama presidency.

No. He did the same damned thing Bush did, and kicked the can down the road, so the painful effects of dealing with the problem rationally wouldn't be his fault. Obama did everything with "muh legacy" in mind, and just passed the problem on to Trump. (Or Hillary. that's how fucking evil Obama is, he was gonna hand the whole bag to her, and she would have had the whole thing on her when it implodes. Trump might slow the implode rate - the markets love him - and my investment accounts love Trump, but I'm getting ready for bad weather)

THis, regan is the one who coined the phrase "to big to fail" for the big multinational banks
He also handed California over to democrats forever more with his amnesty
Regan was a neoconservative who helped destroy this country
This is coming from a hardcore republican

The Feds inflated the bubble for their 1%er masters, but the actual formation of the bubble, the laws that made the bubble possible, was Secondary Mortgage Market Enhancement Act. It recognized collateral mortgages as investments. If they hadn't passed that, the bubble wouldn't have happened. Housing wouldn't be propped up to keep the 1%er's investments sound.
Seriously, if you can't see that - I hope to god you have no money invested.

The CDO bubble took a good, long while to burst. It wasn't until the market had massive piles of mezzanine debt (artificial bonds made by the slicing and dicing of the cash flows of other bonds) that it became a deck of cards. Suddenly, a couple of souring loans had massive reach across the system. Repealing Glass-Steagall was a mistake.

Don't lump the entire 1% into this, you are actually talking about the 0.1%

Enough of the 1%ers had their fingers in this pie, they deserve as much blame.

I also blame the man on the street for falling for the big con, and "no money down, no income needed" loans for overpriced Mcmansions and granite countertops, and smugly running around thinking they had real wealth, and were economic experts.
We're headed for another big correction in the housing market, especially in the Bay Area, and I'm gonna laugh my ass off AGAIN at the assholes who think shitshacks in Oakland are worth $500k. I'm fully devested from ANY housing investments, I went through my portfolio and made sure of it. You have to do your homework, a lot of funds try to hide it with fancy language. My broker gave me some tips for what to look for.

This is a surprisingly good explanation. Do you work in finance?

Actually Clinton started the everyone get's a house meme

Yes, I do. 2008 is a disgrace. It's the end of the US capital markets, really. Now we need CB liquidity to hold the shit up.

>the current "Everything Bubble"
quick rundown?

"""housing crash"""

back to huffingtonpost please

Nope. Bush is too dumb. Blame Greenspan.

If you want to be honest, it was H.W. Bush and Clinton that allowed people like Greenspan to rule

Barney Frank and his protruding, disgusting nipples played a large role

No ... unless you mean he was just following Rothschild's orders. Like his Daddy, the Bush's are NWO.

Not single handedly, but rollbacks to regulation and the under his watch by republicans played a fair role in it.

they are directly responsible for shit today. HW and Clinton both worked on NAFTA, Clinton allowed China in the WTO, and Clinton repealed Glass Steagall, allowing the banks to fuck with real estate

when it was going to be about 'african america america" directly after 'bad bush's/greenspan's/frank's/non degenerate racial swaying" term, why is this looked at "as being a problem"?

>Lower taxes
>Rich people have more money to invest
>More money gets put in banks to invest
>Banks desperate to find more to invest in
>Prop up shitty sub-prime shit houses.

Excellent explanation. However, I think that you're omitting the part played by Barney Frank and his legislation related to securing loans for people who had no chance to pay back loans. The criteria for receiving government backed loans changed (read as: eased) constantly, and eventually reached the point where buyers were trading interest rates points for disclosure. Can't (read as: won't) prove your income? That's okay, we'll add another 0.5%.

So then there were mortgage derivatives that sported average risk assessments that often featured high risk investments (e.g., to blacks with 500 credit ratings) to balance out the normal and low risk investments. When the blacks stopped paying their mortgage, there was a housing glut from all the short sales and foreclosures.

Various government agencies were extorting banks to make these bad loans because they would sue them for 'racism' if they were not paying enough high risk loans to blacks. The government demanded high risk loans! This is a complete failure of socialism.

(Stupid legislators learned nothing. There's already another push to subsidize high-risk loans again.)

The world is over $2,500 trillion in derivatives debt
/thread

I have no idea what you just said

Obama's "quantitative easing" was basically money printing and giving free cash to banks, who now are lending it out, causing prices of all assets to artificially inflate, which means once people realize the stocks, real estate, education, they've invested in aren't worth even close to what they are currently valued at they will all come crashing down.
It's why the stock market appeared to get better under obama, money printing causing inflation of assets, but cheap goods from China prevented inflation of everyday goods for the most part, so as to cover up the very real inflation occurring in the financial sector

Lower taxes would allow for more money for the poor people to pay their loans. Problem is the interest rates on those loans weren't fixed so once they rose those people's payments did as well and they defaulted.
Had nothing to do with lower taxes Bernie bro

oh. so its basically just a problem of massive economic inflation, in a fiat currency making the whole economy a bubble.

that is kind of bad.

how do you even begin to fix that without having to pop the bubble and cause a crash?

does it all have to burn before it can rise from the ashes again?

Dude thats complete nonsense. QE is buying off government bonds. So the banks already had that money, just in the form of assets.

Bro, lower taxes means the government has less money. Government spending is what spurs demand and raises wages. Your arguing with a Marxist intellectual here bud.

Actually, the banks *weren't* lending it out, that was part of the problem. The dirty secret (I did litigation for the banks) was that banks had to hold a certain amount of income in reserve linearly related to the value of the real property assets that the bank holds. So every time that banks assumed title to realty, they were required to demonstrate that they were withholding from borrowing large amounts of liquid assets.

(I forgot the percentage. I was only peripherally involved because my specialty was another field.)

At this point a complete collapse followed by allowing prices to reset (aka no bailouts, or quantitative easing) is probably the only way to find the real value of these assets.
Problem is neither party wants that to happen on their watch so they'll just keep printing more money for bailouts to keep the bubble going.
It's the problem with fiat currency only backed up by "the faith and trust in the US government"

Fuck no. Why are people this stupid to even consider this shit?

>Marxist intellectual...

Lower tax rates have always produced increased revenue since the Kennedy tax cuts.

No, Alan Greenspan is responsible. He even admitted it to The Economist magazine in an interview.

he said partly numbnuts

Clinton's HOUSING BILL that empowered Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. They wanted everyone with a min wage job to get a mortgage because everyone should be entitled to "The American Dream". So they had government take the risks away from the banks who would have denied or put high interest rates for risky individuals. Guess what happens when you take away the risks? You get predatory lending. It becomes a numbers game to get as many people to take out mortgages as possible rather than worry about the risks.

Then people were surprised people making min wage can't pay their mortgages and eventually default?

In summation, this was only barely Bush's fault. There are lots of assholes responsible for this, and it crossed party lines.

(Although, this was mostly a Democrat problem because of the special corruption practices on which they thrive. Give to blacks or we'll harass you with government authority.)

>Actually, the banks *weren't* lending it out, that was part of the problem
True but if they gave it all out in a sort period of time I would assume that would create to much inflation
Correct me if I'm wrong though

we'd need some kind of absolute madman willing to sink his entire party for something like that, or just keep at it till it eventually collapses anyway.

what a time to be a live.

>marxists
>intellectual

Kys

Ok how did it partly cause it? I see no reason it would.
In this case correlation does not mean causation

No, in the 90's Clinton pushed for banks to lend to people who couldnt afford the house they wanted a loan for. Thats what collapsed it

this

bill being the "first cool president" really had people thinking like degenerates

Ummm no sweetie, cutting taxes don't increase taxes. That only makes since in the wonderful doublethink world of oz.

Please tell me you have cancer

Whenever a Republinut fucks up you guys blame it on based bill.

Reagan got jewed with the amnesty and the bank bailouts. He was overall a positive president, who had an absolutely solid record, and made every one of his successors look like complete cucks, up until Trump.

Reagan referred to amnesty as the biggest mistake of his presidency, and it was sold to him and the American public as fixing the problem for good. The amnesty was granted, while the border enforcement provisions were defunded and not enforced by subsequent congresses. Then you had H.W. Bush who increased legal immigration by 40% with the 1991 immigration bill, which also dropped English language requirements, and left those borders nice and wide open.

As for the bank bailout, even Trump supported the bank bailouts from a decade ago. When the economy is collapsing, it's easier to be jewed into things.

It doesn't change the fact that Reagan had a solid economic and foreign policy record, and that it was a time of peace, stability, and prosperity for America, even if he made huge mistakes.

(((They))) tried killing him, or sent him a warning, with the assassination attempt with Hinckley early on in his presidency, I'm not sure which. If you need any more of a testament that he was for real than that, I can't imagine what it would be.

>amnesty was a mistake
Right-wing failures blaming everything on immigrants again.

A lot of what happened under Bush wrt the economy, ie retarded ruinous deregulation, started under clinton (spoiler: in a gop senate)

Bullshit, the whole Bush economy was based on over supply of credit.

-No doc home loans

-Financial companies pressing people to take money against the new value of their houses (it's free money)

The banks made loans they never intended on keeping since they could package them off as CDO's.

Compare this to what Obama inherited - credit was basically not available, and only to people that could prove they didn't need it.

A better question is how fucking awful will the next recession be?

The housing bubble is back to 2006 level and the auto loan and tech bubbles have drastically inflated .On top of that interest rates have been below 1% for almost 8 years and the debt is growing WW2 level
Also entitlement spending has gone through the roof and is now making up the majority of the US budget which is running at a deficit

Shit is all fucked

He wasn't all bad, but he definitely helps set us on our current course.
He helped set the precedent that deficits don't matter and spending like a drunken sailor is A-Ok
But he was certainly superior to the democrats of the time don't get me wrong

>this was only barely Bush's fault
>control the Executive Branch


>control the Legislative Branches (both)
>control the Judiciary
>for 8 years
it's the Democrats fault? What kind of goys do you take us for, Hymie?

It was largely the congress who mandated that loans be given to literally anybody with a pulse.

so does that mean we are due for a crash again since interest rates have been so low?

also what does setting interest rates so low mean...

where does that manifest and how?

Does it have to be adhered to?

Ya it's similar to what happened in the 1920 leading up to the stock market crash of 1929 (massive increase in the money supply over a short period of time)
It creates a short term boom followed by a massive market correction. (The new deal helped keep the depression going until FDR finally died and his idiotic, possibly Soviet influenced, new deal polices were scraped for the most part)

>so does that mean we are due for a crash again since interest rates have been so low?
Yes that's exactly what it means

Low interest rates means investing in shit is easy because loans are basically given at no additional cost, but saving (at least the traditional way) is pointless.

It's a desperate measure to artificially stimulate consumption that isn't fucking there because people are broke.

Maybe not 100%, but surely complicit.

I'm a legit Marxist intellectual and have actually been judged by a famous Maoist/Marxist. The crash was not caused due to a massive money supply increase, that is Austrian nonsense. It is actually due to the failure of capitalism itself. Over-investment as the rich look for new places to put their money (since they keep making more under capitalism) causes a natural increase in the available money able to be invested.

No no no. Capitalism itself causes the crash. Low interest rates, regulations, and keynesianism are all bandaids that prevent capitalism from bleeding itselt dry.

Not even in the top 20 people to blame.

#1 by a country mile is Bill Clinton. #2 dem party #3. neoCON war pigs

Then about 20000 (((jews))). And then Wen Jiabao.