Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
In the past I've confidently stated that Socialism has never worked many times. I knew Nazi Germany was socialist but they fell. Now that I've looked into it more though, it seems like it worked REALLY well for them, and their collapse had nothing to do actually do with Socialism itself.
Is Nazi Germany literally the best example of a Socialist country working or am I missing something?
mfw
Other urls found in this thread:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
>Nazi Germany
>Socialist
National Socialism isn't socialism faggot.
>National Socialism
>Socialist
wew lad
Socialism has worked in the past, but if you bring this fact up on Sup Forums, people will ignore you. Look up Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara.
It wasn't marxist socialist you utter fucking retard
Yeah it went really good what with running out of money and having to start a war to hide from their workers that they'd never be able to cash their workers coupons for real cash and then ended up destroying their own country socialism wins again.
Sowjet Union was successfull aswell for a couple decades. Socialism detroys the incentives to invest and eats the capital, that is used to run businesses in the long run.
But this isn't an unsolveable problem. The solutions just don't work with ideological goals of socialism, say workers paradise.
For socialism to work, it has to accept the investors, but control them in a way, so they are still interested in keeping things running.
Expand on that please.
It was until Hitler fucked it up and murdered the true NatSoc niggas, plunged his country into an unwinnable war and secured liberal domination for centuries to come.
>socialism
>isn't socialism
same shit, except niggers and neets aren't allowed
I don't know much but they have to control labor to a point, which with the system the National Socialists built would have probably worked. (Having Hitler youth, to the Army and building shit like the Autobahn, housing, range if stuff).
Socialism to work requires everyone chipping in and not leeching the system. National Socialists managed to hype everyone into wanting to work together as one to get shit done.
Yeah there were people who were shit but that's why they had the SS. Prevent black market transactions, as in socialism there are price and wage controls, can't have people trading resources outside the official system.
The fact of the matter is everyone knew the reasons why national socialist Germany was the way it was and that it was for the greater good. It wasn't easy, but Germans were hard working.
It's literally called "The National Socialist German Workers' Party". That sounds pretty fucking socialist, they enacted a ton of social programs, and socialist is in their fucking name.
And what are some successful capitalist countries?
What is the percentage of them that don't live on foreign debt and IMF/WB credit?
How is this different from the Communists?
Niggers and neets weren't allowed in socialism either.
Socialism can't be successful and always lives on borrowed time. Same for war economy people confuse with prosperity.
Biggest difference from Marxian socialism was that nationalsocialism was not against private property, no class war, and it was nationalist instead of international.
>>Yeah it went really good what with running out of money and having to start a war
You mean like the US every 5-10 years?
>and always lives on borrowed time
See
Their social programs didnt mean giving leeches free money on the back of hard workers like the EU does. Their social programs were set up in a way to bring people into the machine to earn their place and chip in, be a part of the great country of National Socialist Germany.
sweden
Then you realize North Korea would be successful if it wasn't for America preventing the unification of America and heavy trade embargos
Communists forced you regardless and killed you if you were a useful idiot or what not. Brutal.
National Socialists at least created a system to uplift, energize and motivate their people. They cared about Germans. Communists didn't care about anyone but themselves.
Good way to put it user.
No, it wasn't. All that socialism led to debts. Debts led to war. War led to demise of said socialist country.
Hitlers greatest mistake was trying to attain a alliance with the UK despite it being clearly a jew controlled nation and even sparing their armies at Dunkirk. Strasser had more realpolitik id give him that
International does not meant globalist though people tend to mix these terms.
Marxist-Leninism is globalist, Stalinism/Socialism in One Country is Internationalist
>Communists forced you regardless and killed you if you were a useful idiot or what not. Brutal.
Let me guess, you first heard about LE EBIL GOMMIEZ from Jordan Bucko Peterson?
How do you define those terms?
fucking retard reddit shill go away. it's only communist who had to murder 100 million of their own citizens you fucking trash.
natsoc/fascism doesn't kill the smartest, most successful, and wealthiest people because the peasants want gibs. it makes them work and help bring the peasants upward. when you kill all the fucking hardworking and intelligent people so the scum like you can steal their shit your entire country will collapse and then 100 million of your own people die.
communism is fucking shit and you're a bitch.
>Their social programs didnt mean giving leeches free money on the back of hard workers like the EU does.
Yes they did. They paid single mothers for popping out welfare kids like rabbits and even rewarded them with medals with the only condition being racial purity.. No system at the the time was so "progressive". They created gibs me dats for veterans and special medicaid for war invalids. Unheard at the time. They invested heavily in creating jobs even unnecessary ones so that everyone who wanted to work could do so.. Yeah it was socialism.
Norway
International=Like minded regimes should cooperate with each other s
Globalist=all nations and people belong to a global community
>it's only communist who had to murder 100 million of their own citizens
Entire historical death toll of communism: 100 million
Death toll of modern capitalism every 5 (FIVE) years: 100 million
Whatever he did at Dunkirk made absolutely no difference to the outcome of the war
Nah I learned about communism in school before communism took it over.
Pretty sure the USSR had a social parasite tax
This actually explains a lot.
Hitler sacked every bit of socialist idiots from the party in 1933. Some of them tried to seize farms and factories in the name of Nazi party. True story, google it up.
Not really, Hitler was saved by one of them
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
>Needing expansion on a political Ideology on a board dedicated to Politics
Fucking summer fags
1. I didn't say it was or wasn't socialism
2. You missed the part about opportunities to chip in, and yes having children at the time was chipping in as they wanted more German children.
Just because the woman isn't "working" as in pencil pushing or factory working, doesn't mean she isn't helping out.
But then most countries are internationalists since most want to cooperate? Is it not a useless word?
Their wars were about a lot more than simple debts. World War 1 & 2 are both waaaay more complicated and filled with more nuance and factors that aren't always talked about or even known.
> Socialism
All the big companies were privately owned: Krupp, Quandt, Flick, Thyssen, Stinnes, Afa, IG Farben, ...
Molymemes video how Hitler destroyed Germany has a bit of insight on national socialist Germany.
While they say certain aspects of socialism don't work (and I sort of agree with some), the Germans were efficient/autistic enough to possibly make it work.
However, I think war was inevitable (at least with Russia) because eventually they'd need more resources and to my knowledge seems Hitler wasnt as interested in Western Europe as he was Eastern.
Was Ceausescu Strasserist or National Bolshevik?
>"In addition to outlawing abortion, Ceaușescu also promoted early marriage (immediately after finishing school), made divorce very difficult to obtain, and criminalized adultery in the 1969 Criminal Code even if done in private and without "public scandal" (a difference from the previous 1936 code)."
"To enforce the decree, society was strictly controlled. Motherhood was described as "the meaning of women's lives" and praised in sex education courses and women's magazines, and various written materials were distributed detailing information on prenatal and child care, the benefits of children, ways to ensure marital harmony, and the consequences of abortion"
Hitler built his war machine on promise that the German corporations will be paid in gold after the war is won.
Nazi Germany only shows that socialism in the short-term can produce a strong war economy but Nazi Germany was no means a model of long-term sustained economic progress. Economics is all about trade-offs. Hitler made the trade-off of things like his people being very well fed and having luxuries for better infrastructure and armaments to maintain the sustained war that Germany did in WW2.
Hitler created a war economy whose niche was military takeover. Besides that, it was not good at much else. North Korea is in a similar kind of makeup though not nearly as strong.
bullshit, think of how many would of died from now curable/preventable conditions, then think of their offspring who would vever of been born at all.
Why has the human population grown so large, so quickly?
All of that good stuff that has made human beings so successful has come from western European culture
grow up and stop being a twat
>In 1974 Edgar Papu published in the mainstream cultural monthly Secolul XX an essay titled "The Romanian Protochronism", arguing for Romanian chronological priority for some European achievements. The idea was promptly adopted by the nationalist Ceauşescu regime, which subsequently encouraged and amplified a cultural and historical discourse claiming the prevalence of autochthony over any foreign influence.Ceauşescu's ideologues developed a singular concept after the 1974 11th Congress of the Communist Party of Romania, when they attached Protochronism to official state Socialism, arguing that the Dacians had produced a permanent and "unorganized State"
>Debts led to war.
Reich GDP growth would have taken care of those debts in couple of years. No debts are not the cause of war. Issue of Danzig and Brits basically promising poles that if they keep on shitting on Polands German speaking population and flip Hitler off they will be protected by the Empire.. Oops that turned out to be a lie or at least an empty promise now didn't it?
All Hitler wanted from the poles was a land bridge or a corridor to unite Northern parts of Germany with the Reich proper.
You are correct OP.
Ignore all the retards who have fallen for the indoctrination that socialism = marxism.
You're clueless. The country was teetering on the brink of bankruptcy until it acquired the czech gold reserves in 1938-39. If it wasn't for the war it would have been bankrupt eventually.
Socialism doesn't work, period.
Think of a cucumber in your asshole. Then think of it magically changing into a pineapple.
Now that we've done these valuable thought exercises, what does any of that have to do with my post? You can look up the statistics, they're easily found.
That is not what I have heard about the commies. They had their ways of motivating people as well, after all it was, as you say, about advancing society etc.
In practice of course this panned out differently, but the idea is basically what you describe user.
In my opinion it was because he knew early on that Russia was going to be a rival/problem, and figured they take them out and utilize their fields, resources etc.
I also think National socialists felt a sovereign nation must own and control it's natural resources rather than work with, trade or buy them from another nation. In my opinion would be easier to manage that way, since you wouldn't have a rogue party that could use it against you for whatever reason
>Do this or you won't be getting any wheat
>Meh we feel like raising the price fuck you
Short term it looked like it worked for us scandinavians but it put pressure in the future instead. So, yes, I'd say only them. I'm no fan of socialism even the national kind, but i cannot deny that it was effective.
>manages to pay off the entire foreign debt of Romania, a feat that practically no country ever did in recent times
>suddenly gets killed in a bloody CIA-organized revolution and replaced by a puppet regime that immediately takes massive IMF loans
Really sautees your kale, doesn't it.
>must own and control it's natural resources rather than work with, trade or buy them from another nation.
You'd love Juche
Can you explain a bit more? In what way did they set it up to bring people into the machine? In what way was it different from what there is now and why can't we just do the same?
Genuinely interested, if you have some material I could read on the subject I would appreciate it too.
The Third Reich was very shortlived and their socialism was heavily tied to racial homogeneity and nationalism.
CUBA! CUBA! CUBA! CUBA! CUBA! CUBA!
>Entire historical death toll of communism: 100 million
Death toll of modern capitalism every 5 (FIVE) years: 100 million
false equivalency you mongoloid fruitnvegophile
National Bolshevik
Written laughter
Written laughter
Key word is "most". Another approach is possible, namely isolationism or autarkism.
National socialism and fascism are both "black sheeps" of the Marxist ideological family. Both were created by disenfranchised former Marxists who saw Marxist-Leninism for what it was and decided to go on a different path. "Third way" they called it as it was anti-capitalist but "not Marxists" while they still included Marxists ideas that had been separated from the his works to better market them to society at large who was largely anti-socialism. Basically they re-branded socialism and decided to call it "not-Marxist".
this.
hitler's socialism wasn't marxist.
quote :"we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system"but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not." "Socialism! That is an unfortunate word altogether... What does socialism really mean? If people have something to eat and their pleasures, then they have their socialism.""I absolutely insist on protecting private property... we must encourage private initiative""There is no license any more, no private sphere where the individual belongs to himself. That is socialism, not such trivial matters as the possibility of privately owning the means of production. Such things mean nothing if I subject people to a kind of discipline they can't escape...What need have we to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings"."the further development of humanity through the promotion of private initiative, in which alone I see the precondition for all real progress."
You retards want to know why communism doesnt work?
Because communism comes from the word communa.A communa is ~30 people children included.
You know,like a big farmhouse where the family lives together with 2-3 generations and work on the farm all their lives.
Civilization surpassed that level a long time ago.
Hitlers national socialism was a war-oriented economy.Thats why it worked so well.But even if the would have won,national socialim would have changed with time just like our society changes day to day.
The primary reason why socialism fails is the scarcity of resources. Land/Space is a scarce resource. The quest for Lebensraum of living space is the primary reason why Germany went to War and started WW2, which was their ultimate downfall.
Therefore Socialism cause the fall of Nazi Germany.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. The primary and key distinction between Marxist socialism and National socialism, is that Marxists are globalist by nature. (The workers from around the world unite and seize the means of production) while the National socialists disagreed and thought they should unite in each specific country. Hence the explicit National designation, further more the NSDAP (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte) or the National Socialist German Worker's Party, were not the first to create "National Socialism" merely adopters of the Austrian and Czech National Socialist platform.
Who were very clearly Left wing socialists.
My personal belief is they had their ways of achieving their goals. I think the national socialists cared more, the communists had less empathy for countries they took over.
>a sovereign nation must own and control it's natural resources rather than work with, trade or buy them from another nation.
Well basic Adam Smith and David Ricardo demonstrate that ultimately you cannot be as prosperous as possible if you don't utilize comparative advantage that comes about through trade relations. But if you are willing to take the sub-optimal position in favor of having that total control it would make sense to at least engage in a mercantilism system which would pair well with a war economy as long as you have more shit to conquer.
As the Roman, Mongolian, etc. empires show though...trying to create prosperity through conquest can work for a pretty long time but definitely not forever.
>concentrate the entire economy on war preparation
>lose the war
How is that success?
Well they had the Hitler youth which led to the army which did a lot of shit. I wouldn't ever say I'm an expert but I learned a lot from he national socialist general /NSG/ which had a lot of links, videos and reading.
Even folks in the thread are more knowledgeable than me, just watch for disinfo and shit posters.
Of course. I think the goal was to take Russia so they'd have to be less Jewish with their own resources to sustain themselves.
But I'm not speaking as if I have authority on the matter.