Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare or do people want to get rid of it because a nigger made it so it must...

Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare or do people want to get rid of it because a nigger made it so it must naturally be ineffective?
>inb4 trumpcare is the exact same but made by the white man

Why would you willingly destroy healthcare? People will die.

I used to pay 300 a month now its 730 a month. It has nothing to do with him.

>Obamacare
>Healthcare

Pick one.

Republicans voted to repeal it 52 times. Why can't they do it a 53rd time?

Do you think poor people should die so you can save $430 a month?

Instead of calling you retarded, I will provide an answer.
ObamaCare was a massive SOCIALIST/Oligarchy/Fascist transfer of money from Americans taxpayers, to rich corporations of his (their) choice.
It killed competition, and free market...that's what the fuck leftism DOES...whether it is Natsoc or Feel the Bern!!

(MY PERSONAL PASTA W/OUT SAUCE)
n socialism, ALL SOCIALISM/FASCISM, you still have to trust the word of corrupt PEOPLE, about how much production/resources are available. You have no way of knowing.
At least in capitalism, you can vote with your dollars, and buy into shares of the produce/resources.
In addition, whether you pretend to place centralized control of resources, in the state (socialism), or the people (communism), the difference is sheer semantics....pretending to place control in a human construct designated the ability to actually be fair, and not corrupt.

In fact we have fascism/socialism now...that is what the bailouts were. Those are the Peoples' Banks. Obamacare is the Peoples' insurance. Why ask for something you already have?

I think most people asking for socialism or Communism have no idea, and have never really considered wtf that would look like. For more info, see: "Obama Administration"

>implying more effective healthcare for the already poor under ACA

It's a corporate fascist scheme that addresses the inflated cost of healthcare by forcing everyone buy insurance at the threat of fines and imprisonment. It is naturally adjusted, as all parasitic schemes are, to unfairly burden healthy young men in favor of those who pay little to nothing. It does nothing to lower healthcare costs, it has raised the cost of insurance, which is makes mandatory, which enforces high healthcare costs.

The "best" thing it does it the pre-existing condition crap, but even that's nonsense, because that's not what insurance is for. All it does, again, is increase costs for those whole carry the burden. Those with pre-existing conditions do not need insurance, they need affordable healthcare, and failing their ability to afford it, they need charity.

Because this vote actually counts, they are only good for contrarian pretend legislating.

Now they are stuck between fellating the industries that send them campaign bux and ruthlessly fucking the poor whites that drop votes for them.

The answer of course is to gib to both, and drive the deficit up another 10 trillion. Them deficits only matter when the liberals are in charge.

Its giving a bandaid to someone who stepped on a landmine.

It fixes nothing, and can (and has) been manipulated to make certain companies gouge the population even more.

trumpcare isnt the answer either, only single payer will fix things

Which is where Obama started, before we "compromised" with the GOP and got a version of Clinton's healthcare proposal back when she was first lady.

keke, they literally didn't even have a plan for what would replace it, 52 times

It was a shitty half measure. Tbh we should just say fuck the insurance companies and go Single Payer. Private health care is ridiculous and I work at an insurance company. It's seriously all middle aged women sitting around being passive aggressive toward one another and barely competent at their jobs but still pulling down $50k+/yr. If you ever wonder why insurance is so expensive, that's it. Administrative and regulatory costs partly from the ACA but mostly because the industry is a barely working mess.

literally shitposting 52 times

>trumpcare isnt the answer either, only single payer will fix things
Just as (((they))) planned.

It's basically the cloward-piven scheme applied to healthcare, one of the central pillars of control in marxist schemes to dominate the USA.

why do you want to use guns to force people to pay for other peoples health care?

>Because this vote actually counts

They voted 52 times just to appeal to rural and suburban right wing retards who didn't know any better?

I think you're onto something OP. Trump doesn't have a sound reason for wanting to undo Obamacare -- his motivation (here at least) is revenge. Trump's own views on healthcare are clearly rather big-gov't and not libertarian.

bingo

pretty pathetic desu

You forget that the insurance companies are publicly traded for-profit organizations with all-important investors and CEO's making 8 figures.

What I call "The Reagan Model for America".

>Mandated to but healthcare
>Get fined if you don't have it
>Premiums going up
>Insurers pulling out

The whole thing is a fucking mess. They should just go back to free market style instead of government intervening and driving up the prices

What brand of insanity does it take to want the US government to manage your healthcare?

How does this address the core issue of rampant costs, driven by previous government meddling?

...

Made shit more expensive for me so I don't like it.

Obamacare was just something that fucked the middle class more than anything else.

Obamacare is a failing system needing fed dollars to prop up failing insurance schemes. A monkey pushed it through with harpies and goblins, making it ineffective.

A centrist justice allowed it all to happen. That fuck needs to be excommunicated.

who?

it's trickle down health care

Are you saying I should be forced to have healthcare because poor people didnt?

Exactly, insurance coverage is not care

>get healthcare from employer, it's great
>obongocare: no don't do that

We need price controls before anything else.

i think he's saying your too dumb for your own good and have no idea about the thing you're complaining about and you're so simple minded that you'll believe the GOP has a 'plan' that will fix all your problems

You're lost in the sauce. Obamacare is a loss from the get go. Look at how he STOLE money from Fannie May and Freddie Mac just to finance the scheme. ITS A FUCKING JOKE.

The Government already manages a large percent of the population's healthcare (including all of these Legislator's).

You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.
You don't get to say "That liver transplant/cancer drug is too expensive, I'll just have to pass". Big Insurance and Big Healthcare have exploited this (and bribed politicians) to set shit up this way.

You want to make "teh Gubbermint" the bogeyman, when it's the free flow of money into the goverment from private corporations that put us in this mess (among many other messes).

health care should be a state issue

There is no proper healthcare plan. Our healthcare plans just squirm and worm decade after decade excuses after excuses. We need to bite the bullet on many issues for healthcare to work like debt and taxes but nobody has the balls.

It was working fine before Obama decided to try and consolidate the free market in to a socialist system.

What problems did Obamacare fix, anyway? Insurers not covering pre-existing conditions like insurance isnt supposed to do, then forcing the public to cover the losses, with the government as your muscle?

I, for one, continue to welcome my star of david overlords.

Costs went up significantly instead of down.

Also, the number of people who ended up insured by 2015 was lower than the number the obama administration projected would have insurance by 2015 IF THERE WAS NO OBAMACARE.

>socialism is marxism :^)

Healthcare, along with national defense and infrastructure, are things well suited for government control.

The fact that large government control is inefficient doesn't mean that there are not still things that are better handled by it.

>US government
stop right there. Government can handle this, as demonstrated elsewhere. If there is a particular issue with a particular government handling it then THAT is the issue, not the premise of single payer.

The cost of healthcare in america is a feedback loop. Because most people get insurance through their employer, we already have a system where the healthy are paying for the sicks healthcare, thats the way insurance works, but because everyone has it health care industry can charge very high prices, up to whatever insurance is willing to pay while still making a profit off of all the healthy people who have insurance.

The problem is that everyone should have insurance. Its not a problem that 'the healthy have to have insurance'. Everyone should have fucking healthcare, its that simple, its like electricity. What happens when we dont? People die in the street, whos going to clean that up? You? Are you going to shovel a bunch of dead hobos out of the gutter?

And when plagues spread because of inadequate care and you get infected and die, im sure you will be happy you didnt have to have insurance.

Healthcare is integral to the entirety of the population. That everyone around you is healthy is in your own interest, that everyone in the nation is healthy is in the nations interest.

So we have a situation where everyone being covered, drives costs up. The 'free market' approach to lower prices would require some people not having health care, which is a bad idea, so the only solution to have both everyone covered and prices under control is the collective bargaining weight only accomplished through large scale single payer pressure on the industry.

>with the government as your muscle
wew there lad, I think you forget what 'the government' is meant to represent

>It was working fine before Obama
Costs were steadily rising at multiple times the rate of inflation. And people who were born with/developed serious medical conditions were routinely denied any sort of coverage.

>It was working fine before Obama decided to try and consolidate the free market in to a socialist system.
No it wasnt, you just didnt know about because you likely had insurance through your employer or were uninsured and healthy.

Medical costs were stupidly high before obamacare and only going up. The pressure to do something about it is likely one of the things that caused obamacare to go through.

This has been a growing problem since at least the mid 90s.

We need to place the Fed back in control of Congress, with the People keeping the Fed in check at gunpoint...like wtf the Constitution says.
That's wtf we need to do first.
I imagine everything will begin to fix itself if we did that.
You know how the government does drills for martial law? Just in case the citizens get outta hand in the wrong way? Not because they will really ever do it of course; it's just in case?
Well, why in the fuck don't we start a petition to allow the PEOPLE to hold drills about us using our 1st amendment rights to overthrow a tyrannical government? You know....not that we would ever actually do it...JUST IN CASE.... (KEK).
If we do not have this, then we are NOT FREE, and NEVER WERE.

>You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.
The hell you can't.The costs of healthcare are not representative of a free market. The government literally prohibits several free market alternatives such as fraternal orgs. The presence and utter reliance on insurance has driven costs to insane heights, for the most basic of items and services. Nothing can change without abolishing the corporate fascist Obamacare, and single-payer was the intended goal of this all along, I will never trust it.

Obamas projections looked like this:
Number insured now: 90m
Number insured in 2015 without ACA: 105m
Number insured in 2015 with ACA: 125m


Reality with ACA was higher than 90, but lower than the 105

These are not the specific numbers, but their order is correct. I'm driving so I can't look up the specifics.

>Also, the number of people who ended up insured by 2015 was lower than the number the obama administration projected would have insurance by 2015 IF THERE WAS NO OBAMACARE.
Sure, let's make things up. Good argument.

yes

>Wants Free Market to avoid Corporate Fascism
>Single-Payer is ebil because of my Gut Feels.

Please tell me how your vague notions and worthless opinions of what the government is "meant" to represent constitutes reality.

So naturally the solution was to exacerbate the causes of rising costs (inflating charges to be covered by insurance, covering costs of those with no insurance) as well as adding in the costs of what equates to making auto insurers insure a fucking lemon, for life.

So you think sick people should die? Btw your grand old party of faggots senate bill forces insurance companies to cover pre existing conditions. But you will still support it anyway because the republicans want you to and you're too stupid to think for yourself.

Go look at their projections prior to passing the bill.

Hahahahahahah!! Best answer ever.
And I have had family die from not having good healthcare. It's not your fault...exactly.
If we sent less to Israel, maybe we could afford to pay these peoples' healthcare, and our veterans too.

>they're willing to roll out unconstitutional corporate fascist schemes to achieve their goals
>but dont worry about it lol

Centrally-planned anything is utter shit. The government can't handle voter protection, they can't handle healthcare.

>make less than $30k a year
>Obamacare is great just let me pay my $6k deductable!

fuck that dumb nigger, wish someone would shoot him and every democrat that voted for him

>Is there anything actually wrong with obamacare

Well, before it my monthly payment for healthcare was $320, and it has never raised by more than 1-3% per year.
My co-pays were $10.
Prescriptions were $10.

Now it's $580 a month.
Copay is $25.
Prescriptions are $30.

This happened over the course of 2 years.

>Insurers not covering pre-existing conditions like insurance isnt supposed to do

The issue is that insurance is not really insurance, insurance is simply 'medical care'.

It is by design, by the insurance companies own design, because they keep insisting that prices stay artificially high to encourage people to feel the need to have insurance.

Your insurance doesnt pay that whole medical bill, they negotiate it down. The inunsured end up paying twice or more what their insurance would have, and most providers can not cut a deal with the uninsured because part of the deal they have to get what they do manage to get from the insurance company stipulates people paying out of pocket have to pay full price.

And yes, part of why we got here was government collusion with the health and insurance industries, the health lobby is huge, much bigger than oil.

But what happened to drain the swamp? Half measures like obamacare, or trump care, those are things that will not fix the system, they will just continue milking it. Single payer can fix it.

>Costs went up
Mainly because the insurance companies, the insiders, basically EVERYBODY saw the writing on the wall before the damn thing was even signed into law. They are just milking it, trying to gouge the system for as much as they can before it inevitably gets changed.

The same way medical prices have slowly gone up as more and more boomers retire, because they get on medicare, which can not negotiate (by law, because that would be unfair for the insurance companies ;^) - an example of the collusion im talking about) those health care providers know they have guarenteed government payment for all these retired people, so they can increase prices.

No one died due to lack of healthcare, they went into debt. What you value your life at is no business of mine, mortgage it away.

The "PEOPLE WILL DIE" narrative is weak. You're weak. I hope you're denied coverage for a pre-existing condition.

>Taxes for super highways
>Taxes for military funding
>Taxes for NASA
>Taxes for literally everything
>Single payer healthcare is socialist
>MUH Libertarianism *wink wink*

Real answer is the governments fellatio to private corporations and shafting of citizens is the real law of the land.

The entire American healthcare system has been fucked to hell and back by lefties for 60 years.

The government keeps putting regulations to push more and more money into the insurance system and requiring insurers to pay out more and more money. What happens? Pharma companies just raise the costs of medicine.

>forced to have healthcare
>forced to pay more for it
>hospitals are packed with spics
>fixed nothing
>socialized healthcare is shit and takes forever to get shit fixed
>adds to the debt

All I asked is why do I need to be forced to have healthcare because others didn't you fag flag cock sucking city nigger

is it not weird to you that even earning 100k a year you're still getting ripped off for health insurance and treatment?

burgerland. where everyone knows they're being conned but still says how free they are!

We could cut a lot of programs to pay for health care.

But we shouldn't.
Being Healthy is not a right.
It's a privilege paid for by hard work and good choices.

>he doesnt understand the duties of our government
>he doesnt know from which the privilege of levying taxes is based
>he most certainly doesnt know the difference between positive and negative liberties, and which of them our system is built around

I feel bad for the people around you

Can anyone here definitively say that if there was no Obamacare, their premiums wouldn't have gone up anyways?

People wont die because anyone can go to a hospital and they cant turn them away.

This is not an insurance issue, it is a health care cost issue. You are paying for those sick people using that hospital one way or another, like it or not. The difference is that with a proper single payer system you would be paying less for them, and less for yourself.

Yeah what's wrong is it doesn't go far enough

We need to end this charade and go single payer

>without health insurance you just die instantly
Humans survived for 100,000 years without Medicaid you dumb faggot. And Medicaid doesnt stop these poor people from eating themselves to death.

A little from column A, a little from column B. There are real problems with the legislation, but a lot of the people complaining about it just hate it because Barry pushed it.

>The difference is that with a proper single payer system you would be paying less for them, and less for yourself.
And we would pay even less under a proper free-market system, and have better access to a better quality of care.

Fuck off, 1/3 of my paycheck is already removed by the government.

Can anyone prove this graph wrong?

>So naturally the solution was to exacerbate the causes of rising costs (inflating charges to be covered by insurance, covering costs of those with no insurance) as well as adding in the costs of what equates to making auto insurers insure a fucking lemon, for life.

This is just meaningless word-stew. You act like the Insurance companies just pay for medical costs out of their own money, rather than managing a pool of money paid into them. The people newly covered by Obamacare weren't in there for free, it was covered by their own money or from taxpayer gibs-money.

The insurance companies had a natural reason to make this fail; shit like the 80% clause (where they had to spend 80% of the pool paying claims) were cancerous to their enormous profitability.

The goal of Big Insurance isn't to insure people, it's first and foremost to generate enormous wealth for the shareholders/administrators. Obamacare proposed to change their priorities back to covering the people who paid in and got sick.

On the Big Healthcare side, they just took advantage of this windfall to gin up prices (as usual) because any sort of real healthcare reform has to control prices. As long as we are paying Quadruple what the rest of the Free World is for drugs and treatment, this situation will never be fixed.

>a nigger made it
No, the Heritage Foundation made it.
>wtf I love the ACA now

Yes there is something wrong with it. I am a free man. You cannot tell a free man that he has to pay an insurance company money simply because he exists. You are playing with war doing that. Do you have any clue how many people haven't paid in, aren't going to pay in, and stopped paying taxes altogether because of that blatant violation of the fundamental of liberty? People have withdrawn their consent to be governed over this individual mandate alone. They bought guns instead of paying for your other people's healthcare, and if you push harder, you have a war on your hands.
Fuck your healthcare and your very small brain that doesn't understand what a right is and can't understand the fundamentals of liberty.
I'm not your slave or the government's slave. I AM A FREE MAN. So go fuck yourself. You absolutely have to allow people to opt out and not participate if they don't want to, or you lose the thing that binds us all.

We survived 100,000 years without lots of things. Do you want to get rid of ambulances, penicillin, and your black dildo too? What a stupid argument.

>positive and negative liberties
That is compelte bullshit made up by retards to justify their own selfishness.

Article 1 section 8 clearly says provide for the general wellfare of the united states, says so right in my pocket constitution.

>You can't Free Market something in which the consumer has no choice but to purchase or die.

IT'S CALLED FOOD YOU KIKE

Last i checked the government was here to serve the people. 20 trillion in debt from jew wars which have no benefit for the common man and no healthcare as a result. SHOCKING.

The insurance companies are milking Obamacare? They started losing 100s of millions of dollars per year from day 1.

Obama promised them he would subsidize their losses if they would participate. They participated, and then he refused to give them the money he promised them. He sabotaged his own plan.

The insurance portion of ACA was just a cover to hide the Medicaid expansion that Americans didn't want. They knew the exchanges would fall apart.

Why would anyone compete when they can collude? You marketfaggots keep forgetting that the rich don't stay rich by taking unnecessary risks. They keep it by sticking together, child.
Competition is for the shit class. That means you.

>And we would pay even less under a proper free-market system, and have better access to a better quality of care.

"capitalism works, its just never been done right before! weve never tried a free market!"

>and your black dildo

Did you just assume the color of his dildo collection, shitlord

>price controls
Do you want to go full Venezuela?

Thee are disabled people who deserve help. There should be a better vetting process, but I would never tell these people no.
Also, when our veterans die in the streets, while Israel has best healthcare in the wolrld while we pay for it...trust me, we can afford to even take care of the welfare state, w/out our country being used as a Communist piggy bank.

>They keep it by sticking together, child.
Yeah, and BUYING THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT WHO YOU THEN VOTE TO GIVE THEM MORE TOOLS BY WHICH TO EXPLOIT THE PUBLIC.

IF EVERYONE COLLABORATES TO KEEP PRICES HIGH THE FIRST MAN TO GO LOW DOMINATES THE INDUSTRY, THE ONLY REALISTIC BARRIERS TO ENTRY ARE CREATED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

Name one person who lived to be 100,000 years old. You can't.
If you mean the race survived for 100,000 years, sure. Possums have survived as a species for at least that long. You want to live like an animal?

This is typical Invincible Young Person Who Will Never Be Seriously Ill hogwash.

the huge debts are from entitlement programs and you want even more entitlement programs to solve the problems cause by entitlement programs

$5k deductible means that millions of people are paying hundreds of dollars each month for health insurance that won't kick in until that deductible amount is paid for by the customer. there are some benefits, such as reduced prescription medicine costs, and other perks that are nice, but most people won't actually see any monetary assistance from the insurance companies, since catastrophic accidents and illnesses aren't common occurrences.

it's a racket to funnel money to the insurance industry. it's a result of lobbyists using democrat corruptibility to rape the citizens.

Obamacare is a lie. Its just a law forcing you to eithet buy expensive healthcare or sign up for a shitty one that does nothing. It also only works if you are unemployed.

Trump starts with opening state borders and allowing you to buy medicine from overseas. This hurts pharmacy companies because it forces them to lower their prices. Its high because they monopolize it with patents and then extend those patents through playing littlw liberal fuck fuck games. They raise it so high that insurance is REQUIRED to pay for it.

When obamacare came out they dropped my friend who had diabetes. You can keep your doctor but the doctor dont have to keep you. He had to pay 700 a month for insulin after that and 3 months later went into a diabetic coma.

Obamacare also currently takes 6 months just to talk to a doctor about mental health but first you have to get assigned to a doctor who actually exists.

>signs up
>given doctor and hospital
>call hospital
> "sorry we never heard of that doctor here"
>calls some number to fix
>gets the run around for 30 minutes
>gets told to call several other hospitals to find one who is "accepting new patients"
>no one is accepting new patients

Just like how they have phantom democrat voters they have phantom doctors too i guess.

>IT'S CALLED FOOD YOU KIKE

You can buy seeds and grow your own food, fish or shoot some game, you insulated retard. I'd like to see you perform your own open heart surgery.

>inflate health care costs through your actions
>blame people who cant pay the inflated cost for being unable to pay it

Yes. My understanding is that there is no perfect system where everyone has optimal healthcare and maximum satisfaction. Different demographics of people will suffer with different healthcare systems. If we all stop trying to morally equilize everything and proclaim we are all fighting for our own best interests, we can speed the whole process up. Whatever the means, whatever the outcome.

We should make single payer for all types of insurance, home, car, property taxes. Actually, let's just make single payer for all expenditures people need, like food, shelter, clothes. Universal income for all.

We do have anti-trust laws

There are fat settlements and plenty of (((lawyers))) whose job it is to go after industry collusion

You think Golberg, Goldstein & Associates would give up a cool hundred million out of their sense of camaraderie with other greedy rich capitalists?

And costs are much higher with massive sections if the Midwest having lost nearly every single provider