This is a lefty-Sup Forums thread, we will be discussing leftwing politics. If you find this intolerable please remember you have entire board to post in.
Todays topic: How can it be tolerated that a cabal of a few ultra-wealthy businessmen dictate policy in the United States? Is this not the basis for an Oligarchy? Or Plutocracy?
And how can it be rectified?
Other urls found in this thread:
en.m.wikipedia.org
cdn2.vox-cdn.com
alternet.org
theguardian.com
greenpeace.org
scientificamerican.com
theintercept.com
opensecrets.org
theguardian.com
washingtonpost.com
sunlightfoundation.com
twitter.com
Not a lot of people know this but there are actually 4 brothers.
Charles and David operate Koch Industries from Kansas, though David tends to spend more time at the New York office and in DC as the companies face. Charles beliefs unsettle people.
The other two brothers are William and Frederick.
William is Davids twin brother and Frederick is the oldest.
Their share of Koch Industries was bought out by other two brothers in 1983 for 800 million dollars.
They soon claimed the company had been undervalued and spent almost 20 years suing them.
William lives in Florida and used his share of the family inheritance + the sale to start his own energy company Oxbow Group, boats to compete in the Americas Cup, and NIMBY efforts to stop offshore wind farms. As well as from the late 1980s-early 2000s funding civil corruption suites against Koch Industries for stealing oil from Indian Reservations (!), dumping toxic waste, knowingly poisoning workers with mercury and not informing them until they became too sick to work and refusing to pay them compensation, knowingly operating leaking pipelines that killed people under the rationale it would be cheaper to pay compo than fix, and other illegal practices at the same time he was suing the owners his brothers over the sale of the company.
He hired to carry out this civil case several retired FBI agents and EPA lawyers that had been working on similar cases in the 1980s that got shut down when Bush Snr appointed a friendly DA. There job wasn't that hard as Koch Industries staunchly refuses to maintain records, update or maintain old equipment, dispose of waste, operate a safe workplace, or cooperate with investigations. Charles Kochs has advocated in industry journals that they should fight tooth and claw investigations and regulators with everything at their disposal. Investigators and lawyers have reported being followed, their offices bugged, their garbage rummaged through, etc. One FBI agent said the Kochs are worse than mob cases he has worked on. Journalists have come under this scrutiny as well.
Frederick spends his inheritance + share of the sale on collecting art and restoring classical architecture. He lives in NYC and still catches the train and bus in his 80s.
Allegedly in the 1960s the three other brothers tried to blackmail Frederick into selling them his share of the company after Charles in a board room meeting of the four brothers claimed to have obtained evidence that Frederick was gay after breaking into and ransacking his Greenwich Village apartment and threatened to reveal this to their father if he did not sell.
Their father Fred Koch built oil refineries for the Nazis in the 1930s including for aviation fuel for military aircraft. He thought the Nazis had the right idea in 1938 when he concluded business there and brought home a nanny that was a member of the Nazi Party to help raise his children correctly. He believed in stern discipline for his children and encouraged fierce competition between them, including fighting which once saw Frederick break Charles nose. He was later a founding member of the John Birch Society in the 1950s.
Charles Koch went to work for it as a young man, as well founding economics schools that had holocaust deniers on their staff.
When their mother died in 1990 relations between the two camps were so bad Charles and David did not tell William and Frederick until it was too late for them to attend the funeral, William only managed to make the wake by chartering a private plane. Charles and David walked right past him without acknowledging him. Frederick was unable to attend at all. Their mothers will stipulated that no share could go to any brother engaged in legal action against another, disinheriting William and Frederick. They spent a decade contesting this alleging their brothers had manipulated her into inserting this clause in her final frail years on top of their case over the sale of the Koch Industries.
Williams civil corruption suite against Charles and David finally concluded in a victory in the early 2000s with the court fining Koch Industries over 200 million, on appeal this was reduced to 23 million. The laws on civil corruption suites awarded him 1/4 and the government the rest.
With this turn of events Charles and David decided to settle with the brothers, stipulating all four would have to sign NDA preventing them for speaking negatively of the others with incrementally increasing fines for each instance.
When David Koch ran for the Vice President on the Libertarian Party ticket in 1980 William F. Buckley Jr described the brothers beliefs as "anarcho totalitarian".
Since then they have joined other wealthy recluses like the Mellon Scaifes and Olins inspired by the Powell Memorandum - en.m.wikipedia.org
They have also gotten into schools and academia, funding high school textbooks, campuses in prestigious schools and endowments to fund research that provides the ideological framework for rationalizing their beliefs and generate the ideological warriors that will make the legislation for and promote in the media their beliefs, as well as campus lecture tours - alternet.org
You might say, "well hold on a minute what about George Soros?" True enough, in the 2004 election the height of his political involvement he spent 20 million dollars campaigning against George Bush. In the 2016 election the Koch brothers and their donor network raised 889 million to campaign for Republican candidates.
And huge sums - theguardian.com
And the people doing this are total cynics - theintercept.com
More is channeled into taking over state legislatures and gerrymandering, er, I mean redrawing congressional districts as part of the REDMAP program.
Koch Industries being in fossil fuels and notorious for refusing to adhere to regulations is naturally opposed to the EPA, clean air act, clean water act, endangered species act.
So of course the libertarian politics they and their fronts espouse advocate a small government that is uninvolved in these things.
Koch Industries abuses its work force. Their libertarian politics argue against unions, collective bargaining, OSHA, minimum wage, etc
It goes on and on like this. The liberty and freedom they believe in is a cynical right of the ultra wealthy to do as they please at everyone else's expense.
Their ideal period of American history was the Gilded Age. So called by Mark Twain because the gold gild work hid the rotten core, and they are determined to rescind every social improvement, every New Deal policy, every advance made in the Progressive Era and drag the country back to that time.
kys lefty scum
> there is only 1 source for all your problems lefty
> it's the international Jew that you so love
what do you hope to contribute with this?
The Kochs, Mercers, DeVos, etc aren't Jewish
I've done a little bit of business with a Koch heir, Chase
whats he like?
also,
>Chase Koch
lel thats unfortunate
Fuck off commie you fags try and rename socialism, but news flash it sucks
go gas yourself
Not a bad guy. I've done business with folks like him on the right and the left. They're sociopaths where business is concerned (as is everyone) but a lot of them really think they owe the world some kind of philanthropy and change. Not all of them are earnest but a surprising number are
so this must be that non aggression I hear so much about from the lolbertarians
the philanthropy is self serving: its a tax deduction, and the trusts allow them to pass on wealth tax free after a set number of years donating the interest generated
I'm a transgender Syrian refugee living in Idaho. AMA
...
wut up my nigga
Interesting stuff OP never knew that there were 4 koch bros
The Republican Party isn’t extreme enough. So say the Koch brothers, who are threatening to withhold the $400 million they have promised to inject into the 2018 electoral cycle.
Members of the U.S. Congress have received their marching orders: Repeal the Affordable Care Act (in other words, replace “Obamacare” with “Trumpcare”) and lavish billionaires with massive tax cuts. A June “donor retreat” at a Koch brothers’ compound in Colorado was attended by 400 people, and the “price for admission for most was a pledge to give at least $100,000 this year to the Kochs’ broad policy and political network,” The Guardian reported.
The Koch brothers are on record as committing up to $400 million on the next midterm elections, but such largesse is not without strings. The Guardian quoted the head of the Koch brothers’ political arm, Americans for Prosperity, Tim Phillips, as frustrated at the delays in extremist legislation getting through Congress. “There is urgency,” Phillips said. “We believe we have a window of about 12 months to get as much of it accomplished as possible before the 2018 elections grind policy to a halt.”
...
>Tim Phillips, as frustrated at the delays in extremist legislation getting through Congress. “There is urgency,” Phillips said. “We believe we have a window of about 12 months to get as much of it accomplished as possible before the 2018 elections grind policy to a halt.”
Are they afraid?
>lefty
>politically incorrect
problem?
As an example of what is expected to be done, one wealthy donor told the gathering that his “Dallas piggy bank” is closed for now. “Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed. Get it done and we’ll open it back up,” he told The Guardian, adding that he has encouraged other wealthy donors to similarly withhold money until they get what they expect.
The greatest democracy in the world ladies and gentlemen
Koch Industries is one of the country’s worst polluters of the air and water as well as a major source of greenhouse gases. Thus it comes as no surprise that Charles and David Koch, who operate the company, are also active funders of global-warming denialism, and the two stand to profit enormously from the Alberta tar sands. They own close to two million acres that, should that land be fully exploited, would throw another 19 billion metric tons of carbon emissions into the atmosphere. The International Forum on Globalization estimates that the Koch brothers stand to make more than one million times more than the average Keystone XL pipeline worker over the life of the pipeline, based on potential profits of $100 billion.
The Koch brothers are major funders of the extremist American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) that writes legislation to benefit its corporate membership that is frequently passed by state legislators verbatim; and even attempted to take control of the Cato Institute, the far-right libertarian “think tank” that, despite agitating for the end of Social Security, was apparently not extreme enough for them.
Not content with control of Congress and state legislatures, David Koch donated $300,000 to U.S. Vice President Mike Pence’s gubernatorial bids, and Pence has dutifully denied global warming. A 2014 Politico article reported:
>“A number of Pence’s former staffers from his days in Congress have assumed major roles in the brothers’ corporate and political spheres. And Americans for Prosperity, the Kochs’ top political group, has been holding up Pence’s work in Indiana as emblematic of a conservative reform agenda they’re trying to take nationwide. … Pence has worked to spotlight the fiscal issues that animate the Kochs’ political giving. People close to the brothers say he first earned their network’s admiration during the George W. Bush years, when he opposed what he deemed Big Government policies backed by his own party, including No Child Left Behind and a Medicare expansion, and repeatedly warned that the GOP was veering off course.”
What's the point if posting all this shit? Jist have to get it off your chest? True leftists hate the democrats and liberals too, btw.
Fucking phone posting
>please remember you have entire board to post in
so do you, 8shitter
where is there support for the democrats in this thread?
there is a leftypol board on Sup Forums?
So how is this any different than the 'money folks' on the left? Soros for example. Oh yeah, because he backs violent overthrows.
As nasty as they are they have nothing on the subversion of democracy as oil fiefdoms of the middle east.
BETTER DEAD THAN RED
For the year 2016, the first of the Koch Brothers was ranked #51 for spending. Thats nothing. 7of the top 10 are Democrat donors. Check the link for yourself:
opensecrets.org
I'm conservative & completely want $ out of politics. But I also look into the facts.
>You might say, "well hold on a minute what about George Soros?" True enough, in the 2004 election the height of his political involvement he spent 20 million dollars campaigning against George Bush. In the 2016 election the Koch brothers and their donor network raised 889 million to campaign for Republican candidates.
You should learn to read.
The USA is in the Middle East to control the supply of easily accessible oil, and make money for energy firms.
>889 million spent on 2016 election
facts shmacts
Soros, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Gates, Bloomberg, List goes on. They want total govt control over people. No guns, no cars that you drive, they dont even want you growing food in your yard or catching fish in the ocean. Check liberal activist groups for that by the way, find out what the snapper season in FL is for example to get an idea.
I have found that lefties really have absolutely no idea what their ideology actually leads to.
One Texas-based donor warned Republican lawmakers that his “Dallas piggy bank” was now closed, until he saw legislative progress.
“Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed,” said Doug Deason. “Get it done and we’ll open it back up.”
Nonetheless, Koch officials said that the network’s midterm budget for policy and politics is between $300m and $400m.
Mommy, whats a Plutocracy?
Do you really think communism would work in the US? You think it would work with our culture? It would take days before people start killing eachother for more.
...
You should learn to comprehend. I know you created a thread to pass the time with your bs argument, but there is no difference in Ds and Rs when it comes to large amounts of dark money in politics.
You should learn to google...and I even picked the biggest lib POS rag there is...might want to check your numbers...
washingtonpost.com
itt: pic related
Who said communism?
How does that even relate to the topic? Do you think if someone objects to an elite few dictating policy and the direction of the society then the only alternative they want is communism?
It is true that the Democrats and Republicans are merely the Less Extreme and More Extreme factions of the Business Party
But business interests overwhelming support the Republicans and use them to push their agenda as this demonstrates
And where in here is there support for the Democrats? Making an assumption are you?
>biggest lib POS rag
you say this because it is critical of what you support
You talk about learning to comprehend and yet make such basic biased partisan objections to anything not in total agreement with you
The Washington Post and other newspapers like it serves the wealthy elites running society
This means it has some degree more latitude in what it reports and how it presents it and engages in critical analysis, the people running society need a reasonably clear view of the world if they're going to run things properly
What you're basically trying to say is its all relative, the 'other side' do it so its okay, its okay for a wealthy elite to dictate policy and demand 22 million people lose healthcare because everyone is doing it so they might as well get in on the act too
When the facts are there isn't anything like this on 'the other side' - and the other side serve different elements of the power elite anyway
Assumption? Look at your OP. Lefty.
Anyhoo...don't leave out foreign money...
sunlightfoundation.com
Don't guess you follow the current news...
Obama stole from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to fund Ocare...so, we really have no idea how many ppl would have lost coverage a lot sooner.
How bout those shareholders, huh? Talk about the elite screwing us 'peons' over.
...
1) Where is Clinton defended in this thread?
2) What does this have to do with the Koch brothers? Is it supposed to be some sort of defense?
3) Raygun had death squad commanders dancing at his inaugural ball in thanks for donating to his campaign
And, your vocabulary and writing style....
Grad student or prof? You're not bike lock guy are you???
Is it really that bad that Trump won? Clinton may have been way worse.
>Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held.
Did you read past the title?
...
You said it only exists on the R side...elites and all.
So, if you truly want to have a discussion, you have to look at all sides.
Bernie's a fucking crook 'NO REFUNDS'..Stein made a killing on the recount fundraising...
You really are trying to argue all of the bullshit is with the 'elite Republicans'.
You are delusional.
>random words
DemocracyNow > YoungTurks
Isn't close either.
Stop being cucks and supporting the YT fucking losers. Support actual journalism.
'Presumably'....like a CNN 'source'.
And, HRC was the only candidate to hold overseas fundraisers...and even included the saintly Madeline Albright.
Oh, and WaPo had a great story about all of the foreign money HRC took in.
the Saudis alone have spent over a billion a year in the USA funding CARE, the MSA's the building of mosques and the funding of Islamic studies programs at almost every university in the USA. That's just sustained funding. They are also major contributors to the Koch networks.
> muh Koch brothers boogeyman
There are far richer people involed in lefty politics, and the richest billionaires are all lefties.
What is this asking?
Are you complaining that I'm too articulate or not articulate enough I don't understand
She didn't oppose the ACA or intend on repealing MediCaid. She didn't claim Climate Change was a hoax.
She didn't oppose the Iran deal.
So there are those positives.
On the other hand she's largely a neoliberal hawk.
So what do you do?
Not vote and let the worse candidate threatening peoples health and the survival of the planet sail in?
Do you hold your nose and vote for the less bad option and get back to work organizing something different and better?
Because you're never going to have anything but such options if you don't do something about it.
It's the jews man, it's always the jews.
>you are delusional because you wont pay attention to a few dubious cherry picked examples instead of these oligarchs who nakedly demand their policy agenda be implemented or they hold back hundreds of millions of dollars of campaign money
Yes, of course, I'm the deluded one.
>And how can it be rectified?
You realize that leftism and communism is how they are currently trying to secure power, right?
Back to plebbit, fedora cringelord
I go back to the comprehension and awareness of political climate...maybe your tutor could help you a little bit? Or ask your gender studies prof for help?
SJW culture obviously protects the capitalist system. It is funded by it, even if you don't believe a conspiracy controls it (it does).
It is easy to distract say blacks and tell them that the system discriminates against them. That means the system can be changed and all that needs to be done is to get rid of racism. Then suddenly blacks will be benefiting from the system just like whites are today! Come on. Of course this is bullshit to protect the billionaire class.
Or wedge issues like transgender language. Fucking transgenders are like 1 in 20,000 people. They are so fucking rare it isn't funny. It is a wedge issue. The point isn't to help transgenders, the point is to give virtue signalers something to vote for. The Democratic party is just as enslaved to corporations and billionaires as the Republican party. Please.
Who cited YoungTurks?
But yes DemocracyNow is quite good, Amy Goodman is a real journalist
World War is a lot worse than any of those things. Shut the fuck up.
SIEG MOTHERFUCKING HEIL
>cites a source that doesn't say what you claim
>insists there are secret code words within it for a darker truth to be revealed
Okay, I see you truly believe what you are typing.
Everyone in the US political system has oligarchs behind them
For example: Ossoff/Handel just had the most expensive House race in history...pays 174k/yr.
The majority of money was on the Dem side.
I will now bow out, as you feel that your viewpoint is the only correct one.
You do realize there are only 9 million people enrolled in the Affordable Care Act right?
HEIL HITLER DESU
>This is a lefty-Sup Forums thread, we will be discussing leftwing politics
lol faggot, why don't you move to Venezuela, instead of leeching off of right winger's successes
>boogeyman
Do you deny they raised 889 million to spend on the 2016 election?
Are you denying THEIR OWN CLAIMS of raising 400 million to spend on the midterms next year?
>richest billionaires are all lefties
1) the koch brothers combined wealth is more than bill gates
2) gates, buffet, etc are not left wing
14/88
oh by that really stings
You commie fucks will hang desu
Your anime waifus are shit compared to ours
You retard faggots still whine abut the Koch brothers? Lmfao
From source I quoted. No code words.
Clinton’s campaign has held eight total fundraisers in London, including two in March. And her offshore fundraising operation has so far reached Munich with one fundraiser; Durban, South Africa with one fundraiser; and Mexico City with two fundraisers. It is worth noting, that to the best of our knowledge Clinton herself, won’t be attending any of these fundraising parties.
Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held. However, it is also worth nothing that the Federal Elections Commission (FEC) permits U.S. permanent residents (as well as U.S. citizens) to donate to presidential campaigns.
According to the FEC, “Foreign nationals are prohibited from making any contributions or expenditures in connection with any election in the U.S. Please note, however, that ‘green card’ holders (i.e., individuals lawfully admitted for permanent residence in the U.S.) are not considered foreign nationals and, as a result, may contribute.”
These “foreign nationals” include foreign governments, political parties, corporations, associations, partnerships, persons with foreign citizenship and non-permanent resident immigrants.
Overseas fundraisers are relatively common for leading presidential candidates, but hosting over a dozen events before spring illustrates the vast reach of Clinton’s fundraising machine. By comparison, according to Party Time, no other presidential candidate has any official overseas fundraisers to his/her name.
Eat shit faggots
>SJW culture obviously protects the capitalist system.
>It is easy to distract say blacks and tell them that the system discriminates against them. That means the system can be changed
Changing the system protects the system?
And there is capitalist exploitation of minorities don't kid me.
Are there wedge issues? Are some businesses trying to get some cheap PR? Sure, but I think you're exaggerating and focusing on it to the exemption of everything else.
You are all niggers
But you left out Bezos and Zuckerberg..And they are lefties...
Bill Gates actually has two billion dollars more net worth
you do realise they're also going to gut Medicaid right?
The ACA has problems, do you solve those problems by shutting it down and turfing everyone out? Or adjusting it fund it better and cover more? Or maybe even instituting a national healthcare system?
Taxation is theft, you communist faggot
sage
Do you have something to contribute?
every time you use wifi you're leeching off of aussie success :3
non aggression indeed
>Donors at these events presumably are U.S. citizens who currently live in the countries where the events are held.
They're US citizens. Shocking
You got triggered over the word 'presumed' insisting this meant they weren't
that explains why it's so shit
when has that user claimed to be non aggressive?
they're not
Jeff Bezos the founder of Amazon is staunchly opposed to union organising
He is not a leftist
What you object to is and therefore define as left is anyone who doens't hold views as extreme as yours
So okay they don't have a problem with gays or transgendered or blacks or women, probably don't have a problem with abortion, probably don't want religion in school.
Middle of the road innocuous liberals
But not left wing
You got me. You win.
Now, about Obama 'gutting' Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae to pay for Ocare...Can you please comment on that?
Not if its paying for things we all want and benefit from and understand improve society
Like when the Pentagon spent tax dollars on developing computer technology and the internet so people could someday sit around complaining about taxes being theft on the internet :3
>Changing the system protects the system?
Yes. Because now corporations just have diversity departments and can brag about obvious AA hires. Contrast this to the views of say Charles Murray, who wrote the socialist book The Bell Curve. He argued that we should transfer wealth and resources from high IQ people to low IQ people. He also showed how blacks have considerably lower IQs than whites. So, if we listened to Murray, people like Mark Zuckerberg would have to pay ghetto illiterates. Obviously we can't have that type of Rawlsian socialism, so Murray is lied about and called a white nationalist, and his work is defamed by SJW retards everywhere. This is how it works.