Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD >Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD >To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people. gommies.gom/fug/ gommies.gom/starve/
>Sdage one Bourgers aren't allowed to vode :DDD but otherwise da system is digtadorshib of gommies. Everything is stole by digtadors and digtadors rule all.
>Sdade two Withering All beeple who aren't digtador glass starve. XDDD Once glass disabears and we steal everything more beeple wither away. Bolice begome unnecessary as beeple are dead lol :DDDDD Central blanning begomes unnecessary begause sgarcity caused starving. Money is all ours.
>Sdage three Gommunism. No beeple. No food. My money. Much benis.
>Sdage four Nod real gommunism. Move on to nexd goundry :DDDDDDD
Ethan Gomez
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Jace Foster
lol gr8 b8 op . no ones this much of a fgt
William Sullivan
lol list one successful marxist economy that has people dancing for joy on a boat in a lake.
Kevin Nguyen
How's Venezuela doing???
Lucas Cooper
Well, I'm sure Not-True-Communist leaders Fidel, Maduro, Stalin and Kim have danced for joy at least once on their private boats.
Ryder Robinson
Sage. This is politically incorrect, not politically correct. Communists can get out.
Blake Watson
Soviet Union
Nolan Hernandez
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Chase Clark
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Gabriel Nelson
>Maduro >not a left-wing national capitalist
Evan Foster
That's not what happened but okay.
Jackson Stewart
Oh really?
Josiah Wilson
>materialism >all slaves equal under the state
Elijah Thompson
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Camden Reed
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Matthew Sullivan
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Xavier Howard
fuck offJordi sage
Elijah Lewis
Yep. Most communist regimes in the 20th century were some form of Marxist-Leninist, though some of them hated each other and didn't consider the others communist (see: Albania).
Isaiah Flores
Demsocialist here, one question: What does this general think of antifa/SJW's?
Ethan Young
Go away crazy weeaboo spanish tranny freak
Mason Moore
Who /Takane/ here?
Zachary Price
>Canadians call this food
Samuel Howard
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Brayden Morales
Looks yummy
Isaiah Lopez
How is one's "class" determined/is it mutable under Marxism?
Brandon Miller
Plz remove yourself. You are the cancer of humanity.
Joshua Mitchell
I guess when you never get to eat even the most shittiest of foods look grand.
Juan Ross
The bourgeoisie are the class which owns the means of production but does not use them.
You can think of the means of production as anything 'used' to generate profit e.g. a factory, a shop, a car, machinery, etc if you own means of production but are self-employed, and do not employ anyone else, then you are not bourgeois if you do not literally own means of production but in effect control it, you are bourgeois (e.g. CEOs who do not literally own their companies, but as they run the company they 'own' it in the sense that they decide what is done with it, they decide their own wages, etc) a good litmus test: ''1. do you work for a wage? 2. do you get to decide your wage? 3. do you get to decide anyone else's wage?'' if yes to 1 but not to 2 or 3, you are not bourgeois if yes to 1 and 2 but not to 3, you are petit-bourgeois if yes to all three, you are in effect bourgeois if you do not work for a wage at all, but rather own the means of production directly, then you are absolutely bourgeois
If you own a small shop that you run for a living making 50k USD a year you are petite bourgois. If you are a heart surgeon making 150k USD a year but you work for a hospital and you aren't in charge of hiring of firing anyone you are fully proletarian. Labour aristocracy maybe but still proletarian. It is not a question of income, but a question of ones relationship to the means of production.
Kevin Carter
More people have died of hunger under capitalism.
Oliver Rodriguez
Don't buy the waterproof RAT boots. Your feet will be swimming in sweat after and hour
Ian Cox
Reminder that the CIA set up the last failed coup in Venezuela, I have no doubt they have been meddling this time too
Cooper Mitchell
How do I redpill my wife's boyfriend on communism?
Parker Scott
>What does this general think of antifa/SJW's?
Personally I hate them, its all people on here imagine now when they think of Socialism. Its like thinking all those people with kekestani flags represent the right. Its all very cringey right now desu
Brandon White
So do you ascribe to Marx's original thinking that the proletariat will eventually throw off the "chains of capitalist oppression" themselves or would you consider yourself in the Leninist model of fomenting the revolution and molding it to your own standards of Marxism?
Evan Gonzalez
Damn why are you commiecucks such niggers?
Jason Reyes
>CIA
Its true though
>The British daily The Guardian was told in April 2002 by Wayne Madsen, a former intelligence officer with the US navy, that his country's navy had lent assistance to coup organizers by providing them with intelligence from its vessels in the Caribbean.[158] Its sister paper, The Observer, established that the coup was "tied to senior officials in the US government" after receiving information from OAS officials that the US was not only aware of the coup, but also gave sanction to its organizers. The paper names Elliot Abrams, who had been convicted of deceiving Congress during the Iran Contra Affair, as being the one who greenlit the coup.[159]
Daniel Evans
I don't see how Venezuela is a US conspiracy. >Means of production seized >Means of production not kept up >Economy entirely based on oil exports >Price of oil falls inevitably >Oil infrastructure crumples because it has been nationalized and therefore no party has a vested interested in maintaining it. >Food shortages >Price controls >Black market created >Riots >Government overthrown
Chase Robinson
Capitalism is the cancer, it turns everything into commodities
David Gray
I defend a model of automatic state with computerized planned economy based on ML, with a vanguard party that has anti-corruption artificial intelligence that purges itself and a true democratic party that takes the most class conscious into such party as Lenin defined it.
Nathan Flores
>niggers starving is somehow capitalism's fault
At worst, capitalism has not improved their situation. But in reality, it improved their standard of living vastly, even if it's still utter shit by Western standards.
Sage goes in all fields.
Adam Richardson
Strangely, an anti-corruption AI is something I could support. But like communism itself, it can't be made.
Ryan Wood
Not with that attitude!
David Wilson
I see.
Christopher Gray
Comrade you have fallen for the central planning meme. It is better to have autonomous industries organizing themselves.
There is no need for a central bureau of dairy production, But there is a need for a dairy producer's organization that deals with dairy prioduction issues
However there is a need for centralization of big industries like machinery, weapons, steel,natural resources.
Centralise big industry local federations of small producers for small industry
Austin Evans
Well, you know, one has to take the risks vs the potential rewards into consideration.
In the case of communism, even the possible rewards are so absurd that I can't call them good. And we have all seen the risks, because they have manifested themselves each and every time communism was tried.
In the case of an anti-corruption AI, it is logical to assume that it would have to be omniscient (ie: it would have to have access to all information about everything and everyone, this alone is pretty much impossible), and it would need some sort of mechanism to enforce its decrees.
If the AI goes haywire, or more likely, if someone manages to subtly seize control over it, there would be so much SHTF you can't possibly imagine.
John Flores
to eliminate corruption all you need is to eliminate private property
Josiah Robinson
Literally the opposite of how it works.
Cameron Hughes
>being this unbelievably fucking stupid
Gabriel Perry
How can you bribe someone if you or the bribe receiver don't have exclusive use rights?
Zachary Gray
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James Rogers
Because you literally cannot eliminate private property. All you can do is take it from the demos and give it to the rulers to control. Private property is as intrinsic to the human condition as breathing.
Robert Martinez
DOn't bully
Nathan Adams
That's part of bribing retard. One person in the bribe has to have control over something they don't own that the other person wants. If both people owned everything then it's a transaction.
Angel Torres
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Isaiah Torres
you want to decentralize control of private property as much as possible by safeguarding each individual's private property rights.
Jaxon Wood
You see, that is the core idea of communism, and it's also why it's retarded. Rewarding individual failure and punishing individual success by forcibly making everyone equal is an extinction event. I'd go as far to say that we are lucky that attempts at communism failed in the "starving to death or going state capitalism" phase. If by some means communism was implemented, with it's end goal, the abolition of private property, then the affected population would enter a phase of slow degradation in pretty much every way. Competition and the resulting inequality is what drives humans, and all beings, even fucking plant life, for that matter.
Noah Richardson
Private property is innate to human nature. People have their homes and want to provide for their families as a general rule. Therefore their want to own shit that is exclusively their own so that they can guarantee a level of subsistence for themselves and their family.
Communism or Socialism deny this basic fact which is part of the root cause of its failure every time it has been tried in whatever variation.
Cooper Bennett
Plus true communism would be boring as shit. Just imagine a totally equal world with no competition or differences. Who in their right mind would want that?
Hunter Long
>muh gommunism Prepare to be gassed.
Jordan Davis
>classless society What are the bourgeoisie and proletariat then? >"From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." This in itself creates classes: The able and have, the able and needy, the unable and have, and the unable and needy. >To achieve such a society [...] we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class Why then are the ruling echelons of communism always wealthy? >a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class Why has this never even come close to happening? >there will be only one class, the working class Already pointed this one out, but a different argument: what authority exists to make sure the working class remains only the working class? What happens when there's resentment between the forge worker and the tailor for vastly differing degrees of job difficulty?
How does animeme fit into a structure where everyone is working class and has no time to relax because society must be maintained? Who would create anime without resentment from the other workers?
>inb4 not real communism
Dylan Russell
I'm sorry, but history teaches us that the corruption runs rampant in government run or collectively owned enterprises. Privatization works because it provides accountability to shareholders and an adherence to the bottom-line profits.
Christian Davis
That is one shitty looking spurdo
Mason Hughes
Pff and I thought that communism would halt innovation with its forced egalitarianism. I see I was wrong. #ImACommieNow
Adam Wright
Excellent. You're not supposed to like it.
Christian Howard
In marxism, private property and personal property are different things, private property would be the ownership of means of production and personal property is everything intended for personal use, which is indeed a human instinctive driven necessity such housing, clothes, cars...
Gavin Reyes
>Privatization works because it provides accountability to shareholders and an adherence to the bottom-line profits.
Privatisation just shifts problems to other places. They don't give a shit if they pollute another country or exploit workers as long as profit is good ,or sometimes just plain kill people. Look up what nestle was doing with its baby formula in 3rd world countries
Gavin Rogers
A communist society would free individuals from long working hours by first automating production to an extent that the average length of the working day is reduced and second by eliminating the exploitation inherent in the division between workers and owners. A communist system would thus free individuals from alienation in the sense of having one's life structured around survival (making a wage or salary in a capitalist system), which Marx referred to as a transition from the "realm of necessity" to the "realm of freedom." As a result, a communist society is envisioned as being composed of an intellectually-inclined population with both the time and resources to pursue its creative hobbies and genuine interests, and to contribute to creative social wealth in this manner. Karl Marx considered "true richness" to be the amount of time one has at his or her disposal to pursue one's creative passions. Marx's notion of communism is in this way radically individualistic.
Andrew Peterson
So the USSR didn't do all this on a massive scale then. In capitalism, we can choose to not do business with companies that act badly and even start our own companies to compete, but with a communist government you don't have a chance.
Andrew Phillips
never not funny gomrade
Angel Howard
>national capitalist >not a buzzword applied to an attempt at communism
Jace Wright
>In capitalism, we can choose to not do business with companies that act badly and even start our own companies to compete if you have enough money
Isaiah Watson
>Marx's notion of communism is in this way radically individualistic. Then you and Marx are on different planets. State "collective" ownership is the antitheses of everything individualism is based on.
Charles Allen
Communism is stateless.
Jaxon Richardson
>In capitalism you can have enough money to choose. >In Communism you have no choice no matter what.
Grayson Sullivan
>Look up what nestle was doing with its baby formula in 3rd world countries look up what communists are doing with abortion, everywhere >t-thats not hurting babbies!
Jayden Cruz
So you think Communism is individual anarchism where no one is in control of the economy and anyone can sale the fruits of their labor if they wish to?
Lucas Wright
>In Communism you have no choice no matter what What if you make convincing arguments and people do collectively decide to go along with your decision
Robert Young
>means of production what is the means of production for more human veings
Evan Powell
But those foreign workers are getting a job even if it is at what we would call "very low wages." The alternative is that we prevent them from getting those jobs and they have no means of providing for themselves or their families (excluding your communist revolutions)? At least they have some income and are able to develop some skills so that they can get a better job in the future?
Also, being in a capitalist system allows for social protest/awareness of misdeeds by companies like you're speaking too. Don't like Nike's "slave labour," by Adidas, protest Nike, let your friends and family know about the problem. The market allows for consumers to choose corporate practices indirectly through choice. Such a choice is impossible in a government-run industrial setting where you have no ability to look for other work or protest the conditions or choose another company to buy from.
Samuel Foster
>What if you make convincing arguments and people do collectively decide to go along with your decision
That works in capitalism too.
Julian Sanders
Someone defend this, I want to hear arguments in support of this
Eli Scott
because some decisions have nothing to do with how big a collective doesnt want you to make that decision?
Juan Martinez
karl Marx obviously have never seen a welfare leeching nigger or gipsy in his life, because those groups already model the results of such "freedom" perfectly.
There are very few people who's character and intellect are strong enough to motivate them to be productive even if their survival doesn't depend on it. The overwhelming majority of the people would just laze around. Without having to work, there would be no motivation to get educated either. The result is once again a spiral of degrdation.
Wage slavery isn't ideal either, obviously, but what the workers need is not freedom from the necessity of work, but adequate rewards, both in the form of decent salaries and the recognition of their importance.
If only you commiefags concentrated your efforts on ending (((usury))) instead of toppling capitalism and private property, you'd be far less repulsive.
Juan Myers
you love empowering women? you just doubled the commodity of labor, good job! but you didnt double the DEMAND, bad job!
Hunter Miller
We've had a loosely socialized economy ever since the government protected central bank took over and started centrally planning the value of the currency.
Easton Turner
so it permissible to collectively abolish capitalism? why? are you arguing for abortion or poisoning babies?
Nathan Walker
So what should be done then? Women shouldn't be allowed to work?
Jaxon Young
Almost all of the (((top 1%))) are banksters, not factory owners, managers etc that you'd like to send to gulags so much.
Asher Williams
No because capitalism gives more options rather then just mob rule (democracy). Capitalism decentralizes power so that we can support the groups we like rather then being forced to follow any collective decision making process.
Aiden Reed
Government intervention to prop up the banks and artificially inflate the markets during the 2008 crisis allowed investors to exponentially increase their wealth. Meanwhile, businesses labeled "too big to fail" took their government bailouts and streamlined their companies by cutting workers and freezing hiring while they tried to recoup some of their massive losses.
Essentially, the government redistributed taxpayer money to corporations to prop them up instead of letting them fail and having the market bottom out. The Great Recession played out much like the Great Depression in that the government intervention failed to recoup the job losses and only increased the duration of the crisis by artificially propping up markets and businesses that should've gone under.
Brandon Richardson
I think its funny that the left and the right seem to agree on this problem, its just for the right its all about (((JEWS)))
Jordan Smith
>are you arguing for abortion or poisoning babies? im arguing that nestle didnt hurt any babies
Grayson Perez
Rich doctors are workers being oppressed along with the rest of the "working class" by their definition too.
Parker Lewis
those groups of cheaters and lumpenproles should become extinct during the socialist phase.
Gabriel Long
This thread needs a good barrel bomb.
Adam Jackson
>Capitalism decentralizes power Wrong. Markets lead to monopolies which lead to concentration of wealth which lead to centralization of power
