Capitalism / market economy cannot function without a perpetually geometrically expanding money supply. And it's certainly not going to give the newly created money to people for free, or distribute it equally to the population as a guaranteed income. So the only remaining alternative is to loan it out at interest.
Without money supply growth there can be no profits (because profits mainly come from money supply growth) except from other businesses' and people's losses. Which is not sustainable. A static money supply is not sustainable.
And if the money supply growth is not geometric then it will simply asymptotically tend to 0% growth over time. Because a fixed rate of growth becomes an ever smaller percentage of the money supply already in circulation as time goes on.
Moreover, it's not just profits why the money supply has to grow. It's also the fact that people pay more to businesses as their overall final, end purchasers and consumers, than businesses pay to people as wages, rents, dividends etc.
This is because absolutely all businesses have business expenses towards other businesses. So that money is not available to pay as wages, rents or dividends directly to humans.
Of course, you can shortsightedly claim that whichever other businesses they buy from will have their own employees, land lords and stock holders. But they'll just as certainly have other businesses they pay money too for various goods or services. For example, an electric power company will be buying coal from another company to operate their coal powered power plant. A restaurant will be buying aprons, tableware, cookware, natural gas and ingredients from other businesses and so on and so forth.
So there will always be a little bit of money left over, a little bit of money paid by people directly to businesses which never returns to them directly, as either wages, dividends or rents. Or even transfer payments through government welfare. And, as such, human beings are dependent on consumer credit in order to, as a class, not run out of money.
And since human beings are the end purchasers and consumers of everything that's done, built or made in the economy (everything that's done, built or made in the economy is either in order to sell directly to human beings or to enable another business to sell something directly to humans or enable that business to enable another business to do so etc.), if human beings run out of money it's curtains for the economy.
Which is why the entire economy depends on bank loans (the only means capitalism allows for the money supply to grow). Be those bank loans to the state, to businesses or people. But what is explained above, regarding the imbalance of payments between businesses and people, is also why it's actually consumer credit which is the main engine of the economy.
Money supply growth is to capitalism / market economies what growth of entropy is to physical systems. But it's simply not sustainable. And in the future we'll either have a guaranteed basic income / citizen income or something completely different, which doesn't use money, such as a Resource Based Economy or Technocracy.
Of course, ignorant brainwashed muppets would never have realized the above without me spoonfeeding it to you all. It's doubtful whether you all can even comprehend what I've explained above.
Don't be one of those countless droids who drone on about 'Muh capitalism!' and how bad socialism and communism are. While advocating a single payer and/or non-profit healthcare, applauding the welfare state and generally advocating for it and other leftist objectives and accomplishments.
Asher Wilson
No.
Cameron Howard
Are you actually going to read a thing I wrote? Or are you a good little goy paying slavery to your kikemasters
Gabriel Harris
Not an argument.
Grayson James
Bump
Cooper Perry
Tl;dr
Neck yourself commiefaggot.
William Powell
Trust me. Communism is NOT good
Charles Cruz
Then read it you uniformed swine.
Hudson Parker
>commie tries to into economics cute
Jason Thompson
Do we need to go over the basics?
Grayson Roberts
Read what I said, faggot.
Adam Hernandez
TL;DR
But don't worry, I did laugh.
Brandon Jones
Gommunism is the banker's controlled opposition. Either you're dumb as fuck, or, you're a paid shill who happens to be 'occupying Sup Forums' >THEY AREN'T SENDING THEIR BEST PEOPLE
Connor Long
You laughed because you're an ignorant swine and what I said was completely correct? Good goy, enjoy the rest of your life as a pellet for the Jewish pig.
Nicholas Rivera
What you said is a bunch of economically illiterate babble.
>Without money supply growth there can be no profits (because profits mainly come from money supply growth) Wrong faggot.
Liam Morgan
>everyone who disagrees with me is a shill And confirmed to have no argument. Why not just dismantle the banks altogether? They are for the most part, against the will of the people being owned by the (((Rothschilds))) and all.
Besides, how about read above before you make such an autistic statement like you have here.
Adam Lee
I sit around playing video games and doing nothing all day, sign me up for that free money
Thomas Sanchez
Dismantle central banks, yes.
Jayden Diaz
But there WILL be money left over and money that will be paid BY PEOPLE directly to businesses and they are not paid in return. Which is of course consequent in forcing human beings into being dependent into credit as a class order to stay solvent. That's where you are in the wrong.
Ryder Campbell
So what you're basically saying is that money flows in a circle but at a certain stage a small part of it is skimmed as profit, and as such it sits in a rich man's bank account and never goes back to the economy, so for it to do so you need a bank and loan system?
Benjamin Ross
>using a product made by porky when your shekels aren't refunded after damages from ragequitting o i am laffin
Christian Allen
Oh ok, so you've gone fully off the reservation and unironically buy this shit? I can accept you're not a shill, but that means you're far more ignorant than someone who's worldly and sly, you're naive and trusting. FUCKIN ADORABLE DESU SENPAI You want a smart daddy to play argues with you so you larp as a commie....please accept this it's the only generous appraisal i can make at the moment/
Jayden Morgan
Your post makes semantically no sense. Stop straining your brain trying to understand economics, and do something more commensurate with your cognitive capabilities, like shouting slogans and throwing bricks.
Daniel Sullivan
Bump comrade, spread the truth.
Levi Miller
So am I getting free money or not?
John Gomez
I agree comrade! Now come on to the helicopter, we need to make it in time for the next party meeting!
Brody Hughes
answer my comment please
Elijah Campbell
here we go with an ugly ass commie
Brody Morales
This doesn't make sense.
Julian Cox
Yes. It completely defeats the prospect of cash flow as a whole. Bank loans are inherently the tenor to the vehicle of capitalism. And if you read the upper parts of the second post, you will see that the discrepancy of money between people and businesses is evident in formulating the role of consumer credit being the current state of financial flow.
Gavin Morris
How's Venezuela doing???
Julian Russell
>POL POT DINDU NUFFIN HE A GOOD BOY CIA MADE HIM KILL NEED MO MONEY FO DEM FIVE YEAR PLANS
Jackson Hall
N-Next time it'll work...
Tyler Howard
If Tito's Socialism failed,then how will Communism prosper?
pro tip: it won't and never will
Leo Edwards
>Capitalism / market economy cannot function without a perpetually geometrically expanding money supply. >Without money supply growth there can be no profits (because profits mainly come from money supply growth) except from other businesses' and people's losses. Which is not sustainable. A static money supply is not sustainable.
This is retarded. If you understood anything about economics, you would know that this is exactly why there is a boom and bust cycle. If the money supply does not expand. Then prices won't rise. However the price tag isn't the be all end all of the equation. With a contracting money supply, things cost less and the purchasing power of each unit INCREASES.
P.S. you're fucking stupid.
Ayden King
>Without money supply growth there can be no profits (because profits mainly come from money supply growth) except from other businesses' and people's losses. Of course there can you big fucking dumb faggot, by virtue of the fact that the currency would appreciate in value.
Logan Allen
The commie is disallowed from understanding the pure human dynamics of value. It's because that's what happens when you build a religion on post-modernism. The marxian dialectic cycle stops the apoptosis of poorly formed economic ideas. Metaphorically...cancer.
Tyler Carter
Re-read every word I wrote then, people are stripped money from businesses who refuse to pay them back via necessary stipulations. Otherwise, you're just the typical, bland, indoctrinated fool simply regurgitating the talking points you were taught, with no critical thinking at all.
Christian Hill
I'm glad to see rise of the communism on pol. Imperfect ideology as any other, but with a lot more good ideas than the rest.
Julian Smith
piggy meme is just so much worse than le happy merchant
commies dont even give a fuck about bankers, theyre just angry at fascists and people they think theyre fascists
Alexander Evans
>Otherwise, you're just the typical, bland, indoctrinated fool simply regurgitating the talking points you were taught, with no critical thinking at all. O I am laffin
Aiden Richardson
It's a very old soviet meme from 1920
Josiah Robinson
why cant you just divide the remaining liquid money further?
Aaron Brown
>a lot more good ideas than the rest. So good that people are converting trucks into makeshift boats to escape capitalist countries and make their way to cuba
Oh, wait...
Dominic Sullivan
You have no clue about anything. Just another dullard whose understanding is skin deep. You also don't ask any questions. Don't inquire. You just diligently and obediently swallow any codswallop you're fed.
Evidently, the long diatribe I wrote which you claim to have read flew right over your head.
Let me boil it down for you so you may hopefully understand. The future of the human race is eugenicist, socialist resource based economy or there isn't any future for humanity at all.
Gabriel Howard
He's hilariously trying to apply Marxs debunked surplus labor nonsense into the monetary system.
Owen Peterson
You know what happens when you divide an atom?
Caleb Smith
>abandon ((((CAPITALISM))))) for (((((COMMUNISM)))))
Nope.
Jeremiah Gutierrez
>The future of the human race is eugenicist, socialist resource based economy Sounds like... fascism. Wrong flag m8?
Jacob Rogers
If the money supply is static, you simply will have deflation. It's not because the money supply is static that there can be no profit. Money supply has nothing to do with this actually, you could have an economy run with one dollar, as long as this dollar is infinitely divisible in smaller denominations
Liam Jenkins
>Select all squares that match the label: Helicopter
Even captcha agrees you should get thrown, you retarded leaf.
Lincoln Hill
>people are stripped money from businesses who refuse to pay them back via necessary stipulations and businesses are stripped money from people who refuse to pay them back via necessary stipulations
Nathaniel Jackson
how about no?
Alexander Torres
>THERE'S NOT ENOUGH SURPLUS VALUE TO PROVIDE GIBSMEDAT FOREVER SO CAPITALISM IS SHIT This is what you actually said. After we properly apply occam's razor. Which commies never do, and thats why their books are SO FUCKING BORING OMG WTF LOL DAS KAPTIAL MORE LIKE DAS NYTOL AMIRITE
Austin Baker
My theories, you fucking idiot? You're the idiot who thinks profit or money comes from nothing. Or doesn't even bother to ask himself where they come from.
Typical fucking idiot.
Nathaniel Rodriguez
OP on suicide watch
Ayden White
explains the jew denial you know who led commies in 1920
Sebastian Jenkins
I'd rather have Socialism-lite Fascism than Communism.
Juan Adams
why are you dividing an atom?
Connor Johnson
Which ideology doesn't have people on boats escaping from one of the countries in which that ideology is implemented?
Adrian Butler
SHIA IS THIS YOU? HOLY FUCK WE ALWAYS KNEW YOU WAS COMMIES, HOLY SHIT I CANT WAIT TO CHUCK YOU OUT OF A HELICOPTER WITH UR DIVIDED BUTTCHEEKS OLD SCHOOL CAPITALISM BABAYYYY
Nolan Fisher
They literally cannot afford to print the money needed to sustain their government spending>You have no clue about anything. Just another dullard whose understanding is skin deep. You also don't ask any questions. Don't inquire. You just diligently and obediently swallow any codswallop you're fed
This is classic leftist projection FYI user. I'm going to pull a commie line
Go read Mises faggot you can start with "Socialism"
Jason Price
Where did I say profits come from nothing? You blithering idiot, where does the money for profits come from? The money for profits comes from two sources :
1. Newly created money / recently created new money. 2. Other people or businesses' losses.
Man, you're thick as pig shit.
Charles Sullivan
>It wasn't real communism Kill yourself, OP
Michael Carter
So as automation gobbles up most low wage labor, we are left with what?? A few producers and a horde of consumers?
Capitalism and Communism are both done for. We need an alternative economic system not based on industrial era economics.
What does the person without ability do? Or do we just create bullshit jobs? Is the person with the ability forced to provide for those with need. What is the political mechanism to ensure that the system works? I call that slavery.
Jaxson Nguyen
if he did not believe in surplus "theft" he is not a third position but a capitailist
Lincoln Stewart
HEY NIGGER why are you ignoring the posts which disprove you? Scared much?
Evan Taylor
Anarcho capitalism is for mentally ill people, you're either very dumb or a shill
>being capitalist HAHAHA I laugh at you freaks
>free money You'd love capitalism
Eli Myers
He's right, you're economically illiterate.
Jordan Ross
No, profits come from money creation or someone else's losses. As simple as that. You've been explained this earlier, and it is the only correct position.
Benjamin Ortiz
This.
Tyler Collins
>You're the idiot who thinks profit or money comes from nothing I don't you're just making an absolutely absurd assertion based in the same fallacious ignorance Marx had in regards to labor.
Hunter Nelson
Says the commie nigger.
That belgian dude said it the best, read his post, you might learn something.
Robert Garcia
where are you deriving your morality from
Blake Richardson
Minarchy, stop buying dumb shit and start farming. Work and weapons keep the commies away. Remember, the difference between a corrupt pedo banker and a commie is the commie smells bad.
Levi James
Your theory is sound but the answer isn't communism, the answer is to end fractional reserve banking.
William Walker
Wtf I hate food now
Andrew Nelson
Venezeula is doing bad thanks to capitalism
William Barnes
>not one person in this thread even tried to refute what OP said
Sad!
Matthew Gutierrez
What a great fucking idea. I will just let the government make choices for me and decide every moral! It makes everything so much easier, thank you OP! How about we all just kill ourselves so others can have resources and not be in need!
Ryder Fisher
Fuck you
"In this sense, the theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property(Capitalism) - Communist Manifesto
"Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists. " - Communist Manifesto
Profits are money, you idiot. You can't wish or conjure it into existence unless you're a bank. Profits come from :
1. Money creation (by banks, through interest bearing loans). 2. Some other person or business's losses.
Man you're dumb. Incredible. Absolutely incredible. In a static money supply, for you to register a profit, someone else HAS to register a loss. You fucking idiot.
Austin Bell
>No, profits come from money creation or someone else's losses. As simple as that. But that's wrong you piece of shit nigger faggot.
See this is the reason why, despite being rather socially liberal, whenever I talk to a commie I have a homicidal urge to torture him to death. You are worse than talking to a brick wall, you're like talking to a smug brick wall who tries to harm you. I really wish all commies would be sent to gas chambers and turned into fertilizer. They'd be useful for once.
Connor Sullivan
I'm with you fellow ANCAP.
Liberty over "community"
Michael Morgan
The Belgian doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Deflation will aboluetley destroy an economy as it halts investment and spending.
Dylan Rivera
how is a state enforced price control "capitalism" the intent was "accesibility" which they got until it ran out
Isaac Russell
embrace my 12 gauge. I'm done talking with you fucking liars.
Brody Jenkins
The answer is to end fractional reserve banking that the Jews have forced upon us goyim.
Jaxon Nelson
>Let me reiterate myself, fucking idiot. I don't care about your commie babble. You got BTFO here: Now go on an ignore this post as you commies always do when you encounter evidence which BTFOs your shitty ideology.
Jace Murphy
That's bad though
The only difference between a corrupt pedo and an ancap is that ancaps smell bad
Chase Diaz
>capitalism isn't sustainable because money will eventually run out
How the fuck do you retards remember to breathe
Oliver Wilson
I don't refute a bee either when it stings me. Just smash 'em :^)
Anthony Martin
You're clearly an idiot who does not understand that for you to register a profit one or both of the following need to have happened :
1. Someone or a company took out a bank loan, which means new money was created. Them spending the loan injects that new money into the economy and allows for profit to exist.
2. Someone or a company registered losses.
You're clearly mentally challenged if you think you can just have profits without the money for those profits having to come from somewhere, that somewhere being either new money creation or someone else's losses.
This is, seriously, kindergarten level stuff, to realize that you can't have something for nothing (i. e. profits without either losses or new money creation).
You not being able to realize such a simple fact indicates you're dumb as pig shit.
Robert Harris
>2017 >Still believing in communism
Andrew Peterson
The question wasn't whether deflation is bad, the question was whether you can't make profits with a fixed money supply.
Josiah Smith
Bro, you're really sensitive about people not understanding you. Is that maybe because you're thinking through a thick layer of post-modern kikery? What drives the demand for money, and why would a money supply ever be static? Also, do you factor in other stores of value which aren't money? It's expected that we've 'read marx' in order to grasp these things, but marx is garbage, sweetie, and we're a bit more sophisticated than that. Can you clear those bits up?