This is a leftypol thread. It is for the positive discussion of leftwing politics

This is a leftypol thread. It is for the positive discussion of leftwing politics.

Can we conceive of a system without money?
youtube.com/watch?v=-diLmj5wJdE&t=195s

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle
youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipf's_law
medium.com/incerto/inequality-and-skin-in-the-game-d8f00bc0cb46
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

Can we still hang reactionaries and/or put them in labor camps?

Also got the Sup Forums "It's a Party!" communist banner itt kek

NO, unless you have infinite resources to spare

No.
If you don't believe in free speech for views you despise then you don't believe in free speech.

mutualism
paecon

you get that all of Sup Forums is that, it doesn't have to be a right-wing whatever just because people say it is.

parecon

mate as a fellow country man you must know that claim is fucking dopey

Isn't it funny than most left wing ideals match up to a kids view on how to fix the world?

What rights do you believe you have? What rights do you believe your opponent's have? What rights do you believe your enemies have? Cause if those things aren't at least very similar, the only way you can interact with each other is violence due to the exclusionary principle.
Now I'm not saying violence is a bad thing. I'm saying that you should call it what it fucking is and to not be a pretentious twat about it.

Isn't it funny that neoliberal and libertarian ideals for fixing the world amount to giving the rich and powerful even more money and control over society?

yeah but it's a bit shit that Sup Forums has t's own sense of pc culture in that you have to be nat-soc, deus vult, ancap or meme fag
we should have more left wing ideas discussed here

All authority is be default illegitimate.
It has to prove itself.
And that includes the use of force.

the broflakes are sensitive
live and let live

>Isn't it funny that claim is due to a natural force of distribution and not """human manipulation"""

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

youtube.com/watch?v=fCn8zs912OE

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zipf's_law

Also,
>A system without money

Could only work two ways. Well, really only one way. Bartering, the direct exchange of one product/service for another, like "I'll give you a sandwich for a 5 min BJ"
The only other way would be to abolish the concept of value. If nothing has any value, it can be given or taken freely without consequence by definition.

the recent strasserist wave here has been pretty funny
we need more of that type of third position stuff to confuse them

thats not natural force
though its proponents will claim it is
good going on failing

>All authority is by default illegitimate
What gives you the authority to make that claim? I disagree because your authority on this topic is illegitimate

that would be objectifying someone

hurr durr

>this is a leftypol thread
>discussion of left wing solutions to real world problems
>left wing solutions
>>>x is that way, faggot

Isn't it funny that adults make things complicated and pretend it's necessary because no articulable reason at all?

>exclusionary principle
What does particle physics have to do with this?
>opponent's
First, why have opponents or enemies? Those are lame diversions whose sole purpose is to deflect right anger from a parasitic ruling class.
Second, if you can't into English properly, there's no way you will understand complex socioeconomic concepts, so you really do have nothing to add here.

The key observation is to remember that there is nothing intrinsically permanent about those distributions. Nassim Nicholas Taleb, the "Antifragile" author, wrote an interesting piece recently on equality of probability as a sane and achievable social objective to supplant equality of outcome and equality of opportunity.

>says its wrong
>gives no explanation

I think you're the failing one

Daily reminder that Chomsky's universal grammar idiocy was BTFO by the Piraha, and his retarded computational linguistics ideas were BTFO by the IBM speech recognition team that went on to fund Renaissance Technologies.

>"Every time I fire a linguist, the performance of our speech recognition system goes up!"

>Nassim Nicholas Taleb, the "Antifragile" author, wrote an interesting piece recently

Got a link to that?
I would like a second opinion

The left is totally fake. It is not the left it is a bunch of useful idiots of the Oligarchical class.

-Population Replacement
-Anti Industry
-Censorship
-Undermining of Democratic Institutions
-Reject legal precedent.
-Love Political Violence
-Hates The Working Class
Loves Globalization and One World Government.

Fuck the left. They are traitors to all human accomplishments since the enlightenment and they will see you dead or enslaved under totalitarian rule.

the neoliberal/libertarian shift in the economy since the late 1970s is not a natural development, it is the concerted planning of an elite few to maximize their wealth and remove public involvement in the democratic process of controlling society and government

No it wasn't and thats an argument from authority

>100% against this as are most leftists
>Yeah because it's outdated and we have better more efficient technology
>Only for hate speech and ideas that could kill people
>Oh fuck off like you people care about muh institutions you know how corrupt they are
>And you don't? May I point to all the right wing radicals and violent extremist groups?
>We literally fight for the working class and you fight to take their health care and rights away so Fatty Trump can line his pockets
>Only under a Comintern style alliance that allows for national sovereignty but economic cooperation

>it is a bunch of useful idiots of the Oligarchical class.
Perhaps this might describe the neoliberal talking heads in the media and elected office
But not the left

The rest of your list is a rightwing screed

It was in Skin in the Game. Excerpt here.
medium.com/incerto/inequality-and-skin-in-the-game-d8f00bc0cb46

Ask a nigger, they don't earn any money.

Pretty much this.
Right wing is the only threat to the rich which is why the propaganda machine is set against us.
Leftists are useful idiots which is why they get a pat on the head from the media and the academia.

On the side note don't forget to buy Che Guevara shirt from McRevolution™ company.

What is globalization?

Is it whats officialy called globalization, secret trade deals between governments and industries to protect key interests and exploit sectors of society?

Or is it when people in different parts of the world try to work together on common causes the both face? Is it unions trying to work across nations and expressing the idea of being an International? Is it opposing these secret trade deals? These are the actions called anti-globalization, yet they actually do represent people across the globe trying to work together.

Perhaps your government should stop distributing drugs in their neighbourhoods and handing out harsh jail sentences for petty possession?

This. Pretty much anyone that calls liberals the left needs to be gassed.

Clearly he's better at political analysis than linguistics, such as he may be.

>Right wing is the only threat to the rich which is why the propaganda machine is set against us.
There's a reason Americans make Polack jokes, and this is one of them.
>Leftists are useful idiots which is why they get a pat on the head from the media and the academia.
It's that you repeat whatever you're paid to repeat. You niggers seem to be highly invested in sucking liberal cock and blaming the left for what liberals do. Why is that, exactly?

How are you going to enforce it without a massive genocide dipshit?

wrong, right wing is the tool of the rich

who is out arguing for deregulation and rolling back social services and tax cuts for the rich?

who is fighting people opposed to this?

Well written Issac. I was centre left only 2 years ago but went to the right in sadness and disgust at what has happened so quickly. I will always be left in my heart but refuse to have anything to do with them until they ditch all the things you have identified.

They have just become useful idiots to the 1% and they can't even see it.

Nice argument, but it serves perfectly well to illustrate your hypocrisy and that I was right in my assertion. Two people can't communicate if they don't give equal rights to each other. Assuming the goal is communication in the first place.

I had a guy a couple days ago trying to argue Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk are left wing

Assuming it wasn't trolling, I can only guess that when you are convinced your far right wing views are the centre and the mainstream and people share them and agree with you then anything less than that would seem radical and left wing, like someone with such vanilla liberal views as not being homophobic or xenophobic or misogynistic must seem really radical

And facts and reality like monopolistic behaviour or union busting are just ignored

The liberals are the left you dumb commie faggot. The fringe minority of 50 /leftypol/ users is irrelevant.

His linguistics is fine, that person is lying.

why would that be required?

>I was left but everyone else was really radical and I woke up
you never were sweetie
>They have just become useful idiots to the 1% and they can't even see it
TIL: the 1% want to pay higher taxes, fix the environment, stop war, provide better healthcare, public housing, and expand public transit infrastructure

The biosocial concept of exclusion, not the physics one. Things have defined borders and therefore exclude things not like itself from itself. Also,
>Why have enemies guize
>Proceeded to name his enemy

your argument was retarded and it doesn't require a rebuttal, your false accusation of hypocrisy is down right mongoloid

i'm slightly on the left (according to those tests)
- I think we need to de populate the planet
- I am all for industry as long as it is nationally held and provides work for citizens first
- censorship is wrong in all cases except national defence
- democracy only works if the citizens are informed and care
>I'm partial to a semi-chinese democracy model - if you care about politics that much, become a pollie - then you can vote. although I think there should be independent watchdogs to make sure shits all above board
- we have a PM who I don't like much but I respect his right to be PM as he was voted in
- I think if politics was duller there would be less hyped up bullshit that makes pollies focus on their image rather than policy, I also think demonstrations and marches are crap that makes pollies cave in to stupid ideas from stupid people
- the working class is the backbone
- apart from trade (high import tax) and humanitarian stuff (should be scaled down except for local disaster relief) interactions between govs should be limited

>I'll just make up my own meanings

You still don't get it. They don't even pay much tax anyway and they never will - the only way to get money from them is to tax capital and that can only be done by nation states that are organised - the very institutions that are being white-anted by leftists right now in the name of globalization.

Do you have any idea how damn rich the 1% are and how rich they are getting? I recommend you read Picketty's 'Capital in the 21st Century'.

'The ruling ideas of every age are always the ideas of the ruling class' and they have their useful idiots in academia, the media and on the streets unraveling our very civilization so they can have free movement of capital and labour in the form of globalisation.

>Still hasn't refuted my claim
I did exactly what you said I should do, you should be happy

>your far right wing views are the centre
There is a certain bias in American culture toward wanting to be seen as average, regardless of one's actual position or status. Class denialism, perhaps.

>The liberals are the left you dumb commie faggot.
Do you even into political science or are you just some one-dimensional dicksucker staring at a line on the page and playing some child's sport?
Unironically kill yourself, you liberal piece of shit, and make it snappy.

Fair enough m8, his work is a bit deeper into the weeds than my dilettante study has taken me.

>The biosocial concept of exclusion, not the physics one. Things have defined borders and therefore exclude things not like itself from itself.
Ah, and Uncanny Valley and all that. Alright.
>Why have enemies guize
>Proceeded to name his enemy
Ruling classes aren't inevitable. That's just larp we tell ourselves. The elimination of the permanent and bifurcated character of class relationships will go a long way toward preventing the enmity from developing in the first place.

> I think we need to de populate the planet
Birth rates are dropping in developed countries.
Why?
Womens rights, contraceptives, work and educational opportunities
Not hard to apply elsewhere.
>- censorship is wrong in all cases except national defence
They will weasel word themselves into arguing everything is a matter of national security, and no they cant explain why thats classified as a matter of national security :3
>>I'm partial to a semi-chinese democracy model - if you care about politics that much, become a pollie - then you can vote. although I think there should be independent watchdogs to make sure shits all above board
So you're for a central party to rule?
You're not for any sort of democracy at all then
>- we have a PM who I don't like much but I respect his right to be PM as he was voted in
He was voted into office by his electorate, the party voted him PM

You must be like 18? And this is your thread? go live a bit more and travel some more and read some more and seek to challenge you views little boy.

There's difference between arguing for something and accomplishing something.
Everything your regulations do is destroying the middle class and helping the richest people by removing those who could potentially compete with them.

>Implying you didn't support Sanders
>Implying you don't fap to Corbyn

income tax
estate tax
break up monopolies

I recommend reading Jane Mayers Dark Money to understand how they got where they are, its not a natural phenomena it is a deliberate strategy enacted by changing laws and regulations and tilting the range of discourse since the late 1970s

>he just made fun of me and showed that what the left advocates is not what the 1% wants
>I feel violated and rustled
>I know, I'll call him a kid and tell him to live life
>Yes, this will deflect from how utterly rekt I just was

> people will give up their money willingly

ok

yeah, nah I mean as a whole for the de population thing

national security is something that needs to be protected but yeah, I see what you're saying. I still think we need to keep some stuff hidden

I still think there should be more than one party, or maybe a representative parliament although that would end up in each member blocking each others policies
as it is I think the party we vote in is based on what we are told in adverts for the most part and the uninformed voter/person who votes based on one policy causes more bad than good

> the party voted him PM
you get what I mean

>if we stop chemical companies from dumping toxic waste into drinking water you will destroy the middle class from competing against those chemical companies and help the richest people who own the companies we are stopping from dumping waste

Just stop. I feel like I'm having a stroke every time I have to do this.

>Womens rights, contraceptives, work and educational opportunities Not hard to apply elsewhere.

these things are being prevented from being applied by the entire left and all the institutions it controls you idiot. Leftists suck islam's cock and the 3rd world in the name of intersectionality and are just now focusing on encouraging the population flows in to the west.

The funny thing about leftist is that you don't know math, stats, demographics or economics for shit. I bet you didnt even do high school math.

Not even gonna bother with this thread as you are obviously and idiot.

well at the moment most people haven't got any and its all concentrated at the top :3

Agreed, but the challenge is how. I would say that the true focus should be on the "ruling" and less on the class. People are intrinsically unique and will lend themselves better to certain things. Sailors sail, Baker's bake, scientists science, that is natural and should be desired and encouraged in a healthy society. The problems start when one "class" begins to assert unjust dominance over the other.

I've got plenty.

Good luck trying to take it faggot.

>Can we conceive of a system without money?
yes? the rich have done it since the beginning of time by inheriting wealth and never having to work for a living. considering the majority of jobs are completely automated and will be, the only thing left to do is to consume. it's no coincidence that youtube gamer is making a living playing video games all day and a ton of money is being dumped into esports. people are happy to just consume shit and not do the retard shit our fathers did like getting drunk off their ass at a bar and blowing their money on a mistress

you'd have to be a social darwinist to think peasants should have to work for a living just so that they "aren't lazy moochers"

>yeah, nah I mean as a whole for the de population thing
well I'm glad you know what you mean because I don't

what stuff needs to be hidden? there is no creddible threat, its all a game to justify spending a lot of money on junk.

greeting fellow gomrads! XDDD

your proxy isn't fooling anyone, spanish commie user.

>NO, unless you have infinite resources to spare

money is an infinite resource. people are happy enjoying lives from the comfort of their homes. we only need food and that shit is easy to produce and being completely wasted by capitalism

>these things are being prevented from being applied by the entire left and all the institutions it controls you idiot.
the left is blocking people in the third world gaining access to contraceptives and abortion?

Thats the USA. It ties aid money to not teaching such things.

The left is blocking the application of womens rights? Really? Its not western government cozying up with rightwing dictatorships and religious monarchies?

>Leftists suck islam's cock and the 3rd world in the name of intersectionality and are just now focusing on encouraging the population flows in to the west.

The left is good buddies with Saudi Arabia and the Gulf emirates?

In short: Break up monopolies, axe the fed, reign in the government, let people do what they want as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
But mostly axe the fed.

Stop making leftypol threads, I don't want the average IQ of my board to drop by 5 points each month.

Well capitalism hasn't worked lads.

Not Spanish sorry
>that feel when no Spanish commune gf
I met a trot girl once, it didn't end well and she stole my copy of The Dispossessed :(

what the hell are you talking about? liberals dream of a one world government/borderless countries. they don't give a shit about primitive religious, ethnic, racial, or national affiliation. liberals have always predicted we'll all eventually become one race and one common set of cultural identity. the internet is speeding up this process to reality

the whole worlds population needs to be reduces, not western/our nation
>there is no credible threat, its all a game
international conflict is a game?
sure, military spending can be allocated to stupid shit that will be outdated in 10 years and we should stay out of international conflicts when we can but we do need a military, even if its just a threat that we don't have to use.
also, our military does a lot of international humanitarian operations that I think aren't needed and flood relief locally

seized, not stole

>axe the fed
what does this mean
>reign in the government
what does this mean?
Does it mean providing national healthcare?
Does it mean injecting capital into society to revive the economy and put people back to work and build infrastructure needed to combat climate change and provide the public transit so many American cities and suburbs lack and need?

>Can we conceive of a system without money?

You mean bartering. There will always be people who have a certain skill or object that others do not have and thus will be willing to trade their skills or objects to attain.

Couple thousand years of this and we end up with money.

Unless you're going to fundamentally change people having skills or objects that others do not, you ain't living in a world without money any time soon (or ever), that isn't a shithole husk where you get ripped off because some fucktard decides to repay you for fixing his plumbing with a god damned chicken coop or some retarded shit.

...

>the whole worlds population needs to be reduces, not western/our nation
What did I originally say?
Not hard to apply elsewhere.
What do you think that means? That the same principals can be applied elsewhere in the world?
>international conflict is a game?
Did military spending go down after the Cold War? Did America close overseas bases?
Its gone up. America has more than ever. Its military spending is now a trillion a year.
For what?
Some people in caves in Central Asia it trained in terrorism and now angry at it?
Whats it like completely making things up?
I lent it and she never returned it :(

>taxes actually effect the rich
Is that why tax revenue was nearly unchanged? Nice implication of correlation and causation

>Right wing is the only threat to the rich which is why the propaganda machine is set against us.
you kidding? the rich use petty differences among the peasants like religion and race and culture to divide us. meanwhile, they make hand over fist selling us the bullshit we need to kill each other. the real war is the class war, you dolt. when we both kill each other, the rich guy will still be sitting at the top of the hill in his gated community inside his mc mansion with a hired armed force to guard him

bartering works when their commodity/service systems highest bargaining chip is a latte and a smashed avo sandwich

did you watch clip?

Fuck off commies you have reddit

>cut taxes on rich
>now have to borrow to meet government spending
hmm

Not sure about that. I don't know that dominance is in any way just. I think the domineers just assert that it is for their own sake.
I agree that people have their own various things they do better than others. Yet, I don't see how a permanent administrative guild makes matters better for anyone. It's undeniable that there is a class that controls production and reaps the benefits of doing so. It's important to me that those two aspects are divorced, and they do not control production in their own interest above others. I suggest de-classifying the ruling organ, by broadening membership and, perhaps, even using something like sortition to select its members and allowing recalls at any time in order to keep it disciplined to the people's collective will and interests.

the us's defence spending is over 50% of gdp, ours is less than 5%

Go kill some liberals or something. The left will even help you.

>people dont have money
This isn't your socialist utopia of the Weimar republik

No. You asked a question, i don't have time for Chomsky.

Let me guess, he completely skirts the question and complains about muh government corporations maaaaan.

it doesnt address the fucking question, it just rants about how everything is so obviously shit for the entire video, its emotional gasoline

and is also wrong as fuck, its nothing but an old funless man rant

> Can one conceive of a system without money.
> It's about tyranny.

Well chap my fucking hide.

And what are we spending for? To join their expeditions. How does that defend us? It heightens the risk of terrorism against us.
>he doesn't know about how little in savings most people have these days, and the debt many struggle with

The clip is intrinsic to the question

Its not, it just gives you your ideological cookie, it literally says nothing, doesn't address the question at all, doesn't give a solution either, and assumes that crushing human will and self preservation instincts in order to get power is something the viewer desires

>implying you soyim are physically capable of such a feat at this point

>soyim
wtf haha