Poverty has existed for as long as class divisions have existed. There have been classless societies before, what Marx called "primitive communism", but with the advent of agriculture there came a time where one strong authority could assume control of the production of food and other vital resources, and with that came the existence of poverty, of a specific class of people who had less than others.
In our current society, poverty does not exist because resources are scarce and we cannot spare any food or clothing or shelter, but because we refuse to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, and to shelter the homeless. We have enough food worldwide to feed 10 billion people. In America there are five empty houses for every homeless person. 20 million people die each year of hunger, lack of clean water, and preventable illnesses. The obstacle to ending poverty is not a lack of resources, but a lack of incentive. The producers of goods today produce them to make a profit, and there is no profit in providing goods to those who cannot pay. Communism seeks to end poverty by removing the profit motive and creating a new motive, production-for-use. Communists wish to see production of goods to satisfy the needs and desires of all people.
We have the ability already to end poverty. We just need to be brave enough to do it.
Poverty and capitalism
Poor people are poor because they are irredeemably stupid.
Africa is a great example.
They have massive resources, but are to stupid to utilize them.
What do you mean by production-for-use, and why do you think it can be as motivating as production for profit?
Do you get paid for everything you do? Do you refuse to wash your dishes until someone gives you $10? There exists necessary work that would be done with or without payment. All capitalism does is force people to do that work without control over their working hours or working conditions. Communism wishes to free the workers and allow them to control their working conditions and find better ways to complete their work.
If people don't farm, we would have no food. If people don't maintain the sewage system, your toilet wouldn't flush. If nobody collects garbage, you would have piles of trash lining the street. Now I don't think people would let it get that far, with or without money. Do you?
I know my comrades know this, but it's sad how many people don't understand how we in developed nations 'rape and pillage' the resources of lesser nations for our own benefit. Any wealth that stays in these resources exporting 'third world' nations is then controlled by mafia styled militia.
Poverty is a man made pandemic.
Africa needs true Communal reform to protect its people's from the capitalist slave drivers of the 21'st century
>Poverty has existed for as long as class divisions have existed. There have been classless societies before, what Marx called "primitive communism",
Are you literally talking about primitive hunter-gatherer families? Like, stone-age nomads led by a group of related males and their females? Is this the type of barbaric, lawless society ruled by the strong, where cannibalism and murder over territory was commonplace, that Marxism seeks to emulate?
Because literally any society larger than this, has had castes: it has had chiftains, warriors, hunters, shepherds, etc, all occupying a different status in the tribe.
Stopped reading here btw. Marxism is trash.
Native American hunter gatherers and basically all hunting-gathering societies are examples of primitive communism.... They have been said to have better indicators of development (life span, etc) than after sedentary lifestyle was discovered i.e farming. There is historical evidence for this.. just read any book about hunter-gatherer societies.... They were much better off and nobody starved....
Also it makes perfect sense to institute classes as most ancient civilisations which existed came as a result of farming practices on the banks of major rivers. But all these civilisations depended on a disposable work force(i.e slaves)..... That is how classes came to be....
Also material and actual conditions don't arise out of ideas and perspectives.... It is material conditions which define perspectives and thinking.... That is the essence of dialectical materialism ( this is why slave owners defend slavery,[even in the Bible]) slave owners defend slavery because their livelihood depends on the existence of slavery....the same way the feudal lords justified serfdom and stratification.... The same way the bourgeoisie, which overthrew the feudalism and the monarchy, defend capitalism and the wage enslavement of the working class and neo-colonial and imperial exploitation of the countries in the periphery.....
> but because we refuse to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, and to shelter the homeless.
Poverty is a terrible thing. Market anarchists are working hard to end it.
>I know my comrades know this, but it's sad how many people don't understand how we in developed nations 'rape and pillage' the resources of lesser nations for our own benefit.
HALT RIGHT THERE
If you compare the wealth of civilized countries and their colonies, the center of wealth lies in the mainland, NOT in the colony. The colonies were never "stripped of wealth", because their wealth was always a small fraction of that of the motherland; and the resources extracted were always a small fraction of the total resources available. The colonies' main value lied primarily in having a captive market, and secondarily in providing raw resources, which the motherland converted into industrial goods. The industrial goods required infrastructure and factories and skilled labor, which is why they were more valuable on a global market than raw resources. Countries like Britain, France, Germany, etc. even when they lost their colonies, continued to be powerful and rich because without the colonies, they could simply buy raw resources from anywhere on the planet that had them. It's not exactly a difficult task to chop down trees or prospect for raw metals, and you can go literally anywhere in the world to do it, wherever the prices are cheap.
>but because we refuse to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, and to shelter the homeless.
that is false, Every single homeless that sleep outside do so by CHOICE, there are plenty of shelters and in my country even "free apartments" and food is not scarce and always obtainable by poor people.
>poverty is not the default state of existence
>institutions impose poverty on the people
>without bad institutions poverty would not exist
Really activates my amygdala
>Native American hunter gatherers and basically all hunting-gathering societies are examples of primitive communism.... They have been said to have better indicators of development (life span, etc) than after sedentary lifestyle was discovered i.e farming. There is historical evidence for this.. just read any book about hunter-gatherer societies.... They were much better off and nobody starved....
Stopped reading here.
Your primitive idealization is absolutely laughable. In primitive societies, hunger absolutely did exist. The weak and unfit were typically euthanized at birth; those who could not provide for themselves were outcast; nice modern concepts like "war crimes" didn't exist and people would eat, enslave, torture and rape enemy tribes.
>They were much better off and nobody starved.
Yea I stopped reading right there, it's clear you are delusional. Tell you what, take a month off and go in the wild and try to survive hunting and gathering and see if you are better off.
>he wrote all this retarded shit thinking he was having an epiphany
>literally just a paraphrase of the kike Marx and his nonsensical mentality that his tribe uses to pilfer the host societies in which they reside
You're the best goy ever, you fucking 20 retard.
Furthermore, the existence of primitive hunter-gatherer families doesn't prove that "communism has always existed", the concept is laughable that they had any sort of Marxist economical ideas as motiviation for their actions. All this proved is that people tend to me more loyal to those closer related to them and those that they share a common upbringing with. This is more of a case for Nationalism being the natural state of society than communism.
The commie morons would have us believe that farming only came about because people wanted to be oppressed, not because land ownership and tending was more efficient or anything.
africa got exploited, are u smarter than Neil deGrasse Tyson, David Blackwell, Ben Carson, Brittney Exline, Dr. Ronald Mallet, Ornette Coleman, Tiya Miles, Elise Tan (156iq at age 2),
Mabou Loiseau
By the age of 7, Loiseau spoke French, Creole, Spanish, Mandarin, Arabic and Russian. She also plays the harp, clarinet, violin, drums, guitar and piano.
Autum Ashante
Raised by a single father, Autum was ridiculed by highly regarded conservatives at the age of 7 for writing a poem that highlighted the travesty of slavery. Autum never wavered and mastered languages such as Arabic, Swahili and Spanish. She scored 149 on the standard IQ test. At age 13, she was accepted into the University of Connecticut.
Imafidon family
The Imafidon family is known as the smartest family in the U.K. The youngest siblings, Peter and Paula, made history by becoming the youngest students to enroll at secondary school. Their older sister, Anne-Marie, was the youngest student to pass A-level computing at the age of 13.
Rochelle Ballantyne
At 17, Rochelle Ballantyne is one of the top chess players in the world. She is currently on the verge of becoming the first black American female to earn the title of chess master.
Ginger Howard
Ginger Howard is the youngest black American woman to become a pro golfer. Howard is competing to become the fifth black American woman to join the LPGA Tour.
Tony Hansberry II
Tony used failure as inspiration. After he didn’t place in the eighth grade science fair, Tony interned at Shands Hospital and developed a method of reducing the amount of time it takes to perform hysterectomies and potentially reducing the risk of complications after the procedure. He was honored for his contributions.
Chelsea Dock
Chelsea has been an accomplished pianist since the age of 5. Now 13, Chelsea has performed at Madison Square Garden, The Metropolitan Museum of Art, and Steinway Hall. She’s also an artist and straight A student.
etc etc etc
>Now I don't think people would let it get that far, with or without money. Do you?
No, an "elite" would form that would force people to do this jobs for them and reap the benefits.
It's like Russia, China, North Korea, Cuba etc. never happened for you people.
You only want communism because you're a failure who needs big daddy state to help you. This shit is happening because poor people are irredeemable.
>the accomplishments of contemporary niggers can fit into a single Sup Forums post
My fucking sides
>Neil deGrasse Tyson
Literally black Bill Nye. Just a media personality with no significant accomplishments in his field. I wouldn't discount the idea of the average Sup Forumslack being smarter than him.
Hello gomrades! XDDDD Dis general is for disgussion of margsism-lebonnism, da ideology of revolutionary socialism and gommunism.
Gommunism is da next stage of guckery following real society.
Wat exagtly is gommunism according to gommies:
>Gommunism is a stage of guckery in which the produgtive infrustrugture runs away from gommie country, and no goods are produced and beeple starve. XDDDD
>Gommunism in full form is obressive, statist society dat follows maxim "gib gib gib!" :DDDD
>To achieve gommunism we must replace broduction with murderous obressive rulers liek me, fug working glass beeple. XDDDD Struggle while I liquidate you all lol. When capitalists run away we win and I kill you all. Eventually the functions of state cease and state becomes murderous and indistinguishable from other gommies. Da state withers away liek da people.
gommies.gom
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GL uses philosphy of gib and starve, see here:
gommies.gom
It is recommend you kill yourself so you can avoid starving.
Resources:
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And then anyone selfish, arrogant and ambitious can take over any time he wishes and the communist elite required to run the country starts exploiting everyone for their own personal gain.
So we end up starving, being left uneducated and losing all our drive for progress.
You posting here is a waste of labor. You could be feeding the hungry. But you accept that you're being productive by trying to convince others of your opinions. Why? Why not have everybody have the correct opinions to begin with so nobody has to discuss anything? Isn't all talking a waste of energy compared to everyone already knowing everything? There's a reason whenever you communists try to feed the poor with all the food that's being hoarded by greedy capitalists, that there's suddenly no food and they all die
It's not that communism is shit, it's that some races are shit. East Germany, despite being a commie servant state still had the best economy in the Eastern bloc because it had German white people.
Poles, Ukrainians and other Slavs are all subhumans, just like Hitler called them. Even with the EU having invested over 100 billion $ in Poland, it is still a shithole with no jobs and high unemployment. Slavs, Asians, Africans, Meds, they're all shit.
White people should try communism, we're the only people capable of doing it. No, not that authoritarian Stalinist bullshit, but legitimate communism. If we succeeded with socialism in Canada, Scandinavia, Australia, etc, then we can succeed with communism as well. Only white people are capable of evolving beyond our primitive instincts and to be able to see beyond our hierarchical innate systems.
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Don't talk about shit you don't know about.
Alternatively if you're one of those that ran to Canada round the 80s, don't lie.
California has the best economy in the US, the largest GDP and is the one keeping all the red welfare states alive. If California was truly communist, then damn, they're doing something right.
I'm sorry if the truth hurts you. I may hate Hitler for the authoritarian type of government he proposed, but I acknowledge that he was right when he called you Slavs subhumans and enacted Generalplan Ost to genocide the subhumans and recolonize Eastern Europe with Germans.
EU may spend tens of billions on your countries but you will always be shit.
You're talking out of your arse.
1) East Germany was never ahead because it was composed of "white Germans", it was ahead because of the state it was left after WW2. Most of the Eastern bloc got royally fucked by a commie dictator at one point or another, Eastern Germany didn't get that so much
2) Poland had plenty of jobs and a pretty good economy right now. So does Hungary. Neither still have enough capital to fund a good wellfare economy (usually the measure you people say is "wealth"), but they have growth which is more important in a capitalist economy (sometimes)
3) Differentiate Slavs, I'm a Slav and I don't fall into the same category as the Russians Hitler raged about. We fought on the side of the Germans in both world wars and there are postcards in my attic from my grandpa of Bulgaria joining the war as Germany's Balkan brother
4) Hitler didn't want to genocide any of us, he just wanted the big territory Russia had for German expansion
5) The EU doesn't invest shit. Its investment policies are a rebalancing - when you join the EU as a poorer country you suffer in the single market because richer countries can easily take your internal market. So money is redistributed as "investment" to compensate. The profit of being in the EU is up to you to create by use of the market. You don't even have he numbers straight.
Now stop talking absolute shit straight out of your ass.
I think you explained production-for-profit.
I was asking you to explain production-for-use, and why you think it would be equally or more motivating.
good. we need 100mil a year to die off, mainly niggers and spics. fuck u for wantewd 20 more million peices of useless shit running around shitting out more kids that will in tuen be homeless. fucking faggot
>There have been classless societies before, what Marx called "primitive communism"
No, there literally hasn't, we've already disproven that theory.
Sorry, Iosef - capitalism is a flawed system, but it's better than having your body devour itself for months due to lack of food.
retarded nazis in this thread not realizing that socialism/ communism is completely compatible with nationalism and retarded communist LARPers not realizing that nationalism is a good tool for the working class
can you disprove it than more than
>lol you're wrong bro truss me
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if you think yugoslavia was communist, you’re retarded.
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>National socialist not realizing that socialism is compatible with nationalists
are you alright m8?
the only good natsocs hate hitler and don't go here
>cringey word salad
I, too was once a commie. But don't worry, kiddo. Your balls will drop eventually.
We pay farmers to artificially fuck with the price of produce and niggers need their gibs.
it was not the traditional sense of communism as most think of it and probably the only time it will ever be seen that doesn't mean that it wasn't communism
it was socialism
>Cherry picking in text
>Cherry picking with pic related
As much as I admire black science guy and want to plow that chocolate bitch, you're a manipulative faggot and 100% wrong.
When has poverty not been a thing?
socialism and communism are essentially the same thing just communism is a higher form of socialism and has never been reached so yes yugoslavia was socialist but so was the soviet union
Burden of proof is on you pal
Super market soviet union 1990 (Colorized)
Actually this is Venezuela
Communist prosperity
If you’re talking about extremes, then capitalism, socialism and communisms are essentially all the same.
Socialism is based on society - everyone is supposedly equal (one class). In communism, people are classless. Can you understand the difference/implications?
In communist there is a stance against religion (minimally present or not present at all in socialism), the economy is run by a single party whereas in socialism the economy is run mainly by worker organisations and communes. In socialism one can own land (but not use it to exploit the market with it), in communism land is owned by everyone.
I’d say there is a quite big difference between the two, and would certainly not use them synonymously as many americans tend to do here.
fuck you and fuck marx
I am an American Communists and this is my flag because I am a fat ass that loves to suck on my gender studies teachers transvestite micro chode!
you are wasting your time talking to the retards on here op
Such is a fate of a progressive human being...........
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>venezuela is communist
how does this work exactly?
yes but i don't see how capitalism is the same as communism/ socialism because the whole class and private property
read orgins of the family property and the state
Tragic to see so many westerners still regurgitating the cold war brainwashing.
ALL primates live in hierarchal groups, typically family group. Humans are primates by definition. It is generally accepted that the first human societies were hierarchal in nature and based along the same family groups we see in other primates. At no time in human history has there been a 'classless society'. Take your revisionist bullshit somewhere else.
*the origins of the family, private property, and the state
You know Engels isn't an anthropologist, right?
Since the beginning we've had tribes, chiefs, hierarchies, we've gone to war with each other, and we've had property (not always in land but in tools, food, and people).
>We have the ability already to end poverty
we don't. If we end poverty worldwide we
cement the ruling class's dominion over
basically everyone.
Global slavery / global
slave/workforce.
Build an enterprise that does exactly what you are looking to for. Surely there are others who feel the same about these issues.
But you won't. At the end of the day, you are just demanding revenue for frivolous, no return schemes. You require a state apparatus to do so, which in why your utopia will never be reached, and your political philosophy is a dumpster fire in theory and practice.
>communist complaining about poverty
If they are so intelligent why they don't lead their own race in Africa?
bump
>Also it makes perfect sense to institute classes as most ancient civilisations which existed came as a result of farming practices on the banks of major rivers. But all these civilisations depended on a disposable work force(i.e slaves)..... That is how classes came to be
Well friend, it seems that you have identiied the crux of your problem - agriculture. Not capitalism
Glad to be of help
>another communist thread
>commieposter can't make any actual arguments
>just like every other commie thread
Its not my problem what you cant see the arguments :^)
Pretty retarded response if you're actually trying to get silent lurkers to take your bullshit seriously.
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>my arguments can only work in my own imagination
>I can post smug animes too instead of providing arguments you know
>implying you made any in the first place
>implying drumpftards didnt took the bait anyway