Frederic Bastiat — 'Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.'
This is a thread for the discussion of all ideologies that promote property rights, individual liberty and lassez-faire capitalism. This includes (but is not limited to) anarcho-capitalism, paleolibertarianism, minarchy, and right wing reactionism (i.e. physical removal, so to speak). All others are welcome to learn and debate us. Reminder that this is a right-wing thread, so libertine degenerates ('live and let live' faggotry), open-border advocates and faux-libertarians (e.g. Gary Johnson) are not welcome here - people here recognise that property rights imply discrimination and a return to traditional values. Although questions are welcome, nobody here is obligated to argue with you, so try to avoid using fallacies in your arguments or creating unrealistic scenarios.
FURTHER READING: >Reference - See i.imgur.com/wCIpgNA.jpg >Torrent - magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8d8ec6ef882dee291f119eb69994797574e5d616&dn=Anarcho-Capitalism%20Books
THREAD THEME: >hoppewave | Hans-Hermann Hoppe | physical removal - youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ >Against the State - (Hoppewave Hans Hermann Hoppe) - youtube.com/watch?v=HLaqr3QorCw >I need a Pinochet! - youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o >Drop it like it's Hoppe - youtube.com/watch?v=HPKGgo4kGQM
Go over to /acg/ those libertiens will give you a fair hearing. I don't want any part of your homoism
Easton Williams
property rights imply discrimination and a return to traditional values.
WTF? Traditional values in anarchy? as if.
For me anyway, anarcho capitalism is the default. If you take away government people will start trading to get the things they need. 'Traditional values' aren't inherite at all. Anarchy is great because the government cant tell you what to do.
Nicholas Smith
I agree with the first part, but traditional values are in fact natural, only government intervention can cause 'moral decay'
Logan Adams
why the fuck ancaps are making their own threads is beyond me, defeats their purpose IMO.
Huebro is right , come to think of it
Brayden Carter
>libertarian right >trumpkin faggot with buyer's remorse
fuck off normie
Grayson Hall
...
Luke King
I think that's completely wrong, traditional values (If we're thinking of the same 'woman's role is in the home, nuclear family, only straight people' values) where enforced by government for a long time, with only straight marriage and alot of older governments being theocracies. I think that if people have the freedom to decide what to do in their life that we'll have all sorts of different people living different lives. I for one want to be a stay at home husband, with my wife making the money and me taking care of the house and any children we have. while we can still do that nowadays, my point is that in a world with no government people wouldn't immediately fall into any specific values. Some poeple might, and they should be allowed, but there's no way you could say everyone would.
Wyatt Wilson
Can I have my Civic Nationalist beliefs in /lrg/? I want a world that only support those who actually try to better themselves but remove all the faggots that encourage negativity. Such as being a black and hating niggerdom has showed me that there is no one more holding back then your own kind. I just want a society of respect and tolerance and working towards the goal of improving the community for the better of the state.
Lincoln Cox
>for the better of the state
Charles Robinson
bump
Kevin Parker
...
Luis Watson
Bump
Joshua Sanchez
read Hoppe.
Juan Jenkins
/lrg/ is based as an argumentative aggregate, but Libertarianism is incomplete Objectivism. Objectivism without the epistemology. youtube.com/watch?v=erytcpYpzRk Objectivism is Nationalist, Capitalist, Individualist, Egoist, Libertarian, Minarchist, and Meritocratic all rolled into one. Reminder that all these smear attempts by commie, cyrpto-commie, and NatSoc shills of Ayn Rand are borne out of their gut wrenching realization that Objectivism is the greatest threat they have ever encountered which is why they cannot even bear to have it discussed as a philosophy. ALL of the andversaries she descibes in her novels are EXACTLY what Sup Forums describes as the sterotypical kike. Kikes exist but Rand is quite literally the most based jew to ever live. I do not exaggerate. Reminder that Cultural Marxists are terrified of Ayn Rand as she represents the American Constution completed. Epistemologically validated, metaphysically defined, and ethically expanded.
Debate me.
Hudson Ramirez
Libertarians are such crypto-kikes Day of the tread when?
Leo Butler
>says the communist >most jewish ideology
Tyler Reed
Reminder that AnCapism means well and is certainly preferable to statism but is utterly inferior to Laissez-faire Capitalism. LfCap>AnCap for the same reason Minarchism>Anarchism and that is because objective law>polycentric law. Read a little of this lexicon to discover why aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/anarchism.html
Now that we have flags (I do not like the notion) I wish Objectivism had a flag.
>"We take as our symbol the moral of the $" Something along those lines. Personally I would do a white dollar on black background as I have a boner for minimalism and monochromatic shit.
Parker Clark
Objectivism is libertarianism; there's no meaningful distinction.
Nicholas Ramirez
>LfCap>AnCap >capitalism>capitalism Capitalism in an anarchist society would be laissez-faire, so your distinction is meaningless.
Liam Clark
Nazbols are proud enemies of the Jews Also >capitalism >not full of and promoted by jews Jews are the biggest promoters of both communism and capitalism. it's somewhat of a paradox really
Nathan Walker
That video describes the distinction. Libertarians postulate THAT freedom, liberty, productiveness, ect are king but not epistemologically and metaphysically WHY. Objectivism completes it.
Parker Morales
Read Rand's "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal". I guarantee it will hard-convert you.
Michael Reyes
so you're saying that you're a libertarian that uses epistemology. I really see a huge difference there.
Andrew Foster
Skipper Libertarians that don't consider epistemology frequently get embarrassed by the more insidious leftists that known how to twist their verbiage around to trap oppoents. Offtimes Libertarians unwitttingly accpet a collectivist's premises without realizing they are and their argument becomes doomed from the start. All because they lack the 3 pillars of ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
Jace Collins
Hey boyos, I'm trying to make an a priori argument for why homosexuals should never be in a position of power. I'm going off Hoppe's idea of homosexuals (like Keynes) not planning for the future, but I spent the last few minutes drawing a huge blank. If anyone would like to help me, this is all I came up with:
Let the following be true: A homosexual only experiences sexual attraction to those of the opposite sex. Time preference is the valuation given to a good/service received at an earlier date as opposed to a later date; one who has a "high time preference" would rather receive something sooner than later.
The following statements can then be made: An honest homosexual will never enter into a sexual relationship with someone of the opposite sex, because he/she would not have any sexual incentive to do so. Therefore, an honest homosexual will never copulate. Therefore, an honest homosexual will never have children.
My problem is that I cannot make a rational determination of high time preference from here. (Also, I still only know some basic-bitch philosophy, so if this seems weak that's why.)
Elijah Harris
LfCap is to Minarchism what AnCap is to Anarchism. That is my distiction
Levi Garcia
The dreaded, horrible secret that academic philosophers face (and why they do not even allow the notion of Objectivism as a philosophy) is that Objectism is not -a- Philosophy but THE Philosophy. Hers holds the particular distinction of being the first ever formulated META-Philosophy. And psudeo-intellectuals the world over are perpetually butthurt over this incontrovertible fact. Yes fact, I do not exaggerate. Including it among their other disaparate half formed, half actualized "philosophies", they find it eats everything it comes into contact with. This disrupts their vested interest in keeping a fanciful salad-esque collection of philosophies to catalog away and do nothing objectively meritous with it on their own terms. Despite what these sorts of people would have to say it isn't Ayn Rand but academia as it stands that is "the joke".
>The highest tribute to Ayn Rand, is that her critics must distort everything that she stood for in order to attack her. She advocated reason, not force; the individual’s rights to freedom of action, speech, and association; self-responsibility not self-indulgence, and a live-and-let-live society in which each individual is treated as an END, not the MEANS of others’ ends. How many critics would dare to honestly state these ideas, & say “..and that’s what I reject?” .Barbara Branden
Dylan Gomez
Hello fellas!
Thomas Anderson
They are like Jews the promote other fags they dick into places of power and it becomes a gay cabal >example the Vatican
Lucas Gray
keep up the good work lads
Nathan Walker
reminder that /acg or whatever is probably an impostor and we must not tolerate the existence of democrats and communists in our /lrg/ of peace.
Wyatt Foster
Anatomy of the State was a simple and elegant read about the State, truly up there with the Declaration of Independence.
Connor Williams
wtf is /acg/?
agreed. absolutely fantastic and concise 60 pages
Landon Walker
They're having an /anarcho-capitalist general/ now. I don't know who made it. Probably not one of us.
Ian Sullivan
jesus christ how horrifying. It's like the Libertarian Party cucking our good name all over again
the commies must be behind this
Brandon Butler
There's also that faggot leaf accusing Hoppe of being a communist. What the fuck is wrong with these people, who pays them?!
Eli Hernandez
If one thinks anarcho-capitalism/voluntaryism/NAP is the ideal society and that it is achievable, but not on large scale for another 100 to 500 years (a generational project), then what does that make one in terms of political labels? I know it would be considered libertarian but anything more specific? Like Miniminarchist? Libertarian Realist? Anarcho-Practicalist? Deconstructionist? Agorist? Paleo-Liberal? Any suggestions or thoughts on the matter?
Gabriel Thompson
Paleo-libertarian would be the closest. Although I like the term Restorationist.
Austin Perez
>leaf
every time. God fucking damn it we need helirake ride
Christian Edwards
>Restorationist. I like the sound of it. But what is it you would say you are trying to restore?
Connor Hughes
The "natural order" as understood by Hoppe: the recognition of private property and natural rights as the ultimate source of moral judgement and Justice, and the restoration of property rights (freedom of association, of trade, of migration) to their rightful owners. And throw in the expulsion of homos and other dregs since they are anomalies of the statist system. see pic
Charles Jones
>If one thinks anarcho-capitalism/voluntaryism/NAP is the ideal society and that it is achievable, but not on large scale for another 100 to 500 years (a generational project), then what does that make one in terms of political labels? I know it would be considered libertarian but anything more specific? Like Miniminarchist? Libertarian Realist? Anarcho-Practicalist? Deconstructionist? Agorist? Paleo-Liberal? >Any suggestions or thoughts on the matter?
I want to add to this to clarify because this would mean political action must be taken towards the goal of abolishing the state. Which would go against carrying the label of anarchist. For instance, in an election between a libertarian and totalitarian, it would be wise if you want a more free nation to vote for the libertarian, but you are voting. Or being a Ron Paul who philosophically is Rothbardian but worked in gov in order to help dismantle gov.
So can one be AnCap and still engage in politics and support minarchy if the end goal is anarchy?
>I think of this as in the case of a priest: he lives in a primarily family-based, procreative culture. Yet he is himself celibate and does not procreate. However, he is not going around advocating that no one procreate, that everyone be celibate like him. If he did, he would in fact be advocating something misanthropic and destructive of mankind itself. Rather, he is a special case and lives within a predominately family-based heterosexual society; and he does not condemn heterosexual marriage and procreation; far from it, he supports it.
Perfect analogy.
Christian Allen
>So can one be AnCap and still engage in politics and support minarchy if the end goal is anarchy? As long as you do not become drunk with the power they will tempt you with and nor participate in scandalous and downright immoral state affairs (corruption, embezzling, etc.) .
Grayson Johnson
I'm not arguing about the importance of epistemology; I'm arguing that you're still a libertarian.
Caleb White
...this would be a great flag for Objectivism. Even though it's similarity to the Nazi flag is kekistani maymay tier. Perfect for Sup Forums though.
>"We take as our symbol the moral of the $" Something along those lines. Personally I would do a white dollar on black background instead as I have a boner for minimalism and monochromatic shit. Also a /white/ dollar on a black expanse appeals to me greatly. I'm not White Nationalist though. Though I approach it when confronted by the white genocide ala Hoppe.
Nicholas Martin
Correct. Libertarian is still useful as a technical classifier and descriptor. But little more.
Charles Brooks
Some guy posted the other day a yellow flag with a fence that was pretty cool.
Mason Robinson
How about a black flag with a gold/yellow first sign? Cut out the circle shit.
Jaxon Gutierrez
>So can one be AnCap and still engage in politics and support minarchy if the end goal is anarchy? No because the end goal shouldn't be Anarchy. Achieving minarchy necessitates a different course of acton than acheiving anarchy. No two ways about it.
Jackson Moore
I-I like you
Will you kill me?
Nathaniel Watson
Property rights; the natural order, so to speak.
Colton Collins
Not unless you tread on me, Monsieur.
Sebastian Richardson
>want to kill commies >don't want to kill us
ARE YOU LIKE GODS?
Luis Rodriguez
"Tyranny is one form of chaos; freedom is one form of order. There are others of each, however. And order is always preferred to chaos. Thus, to a Carlylean, the fatal error of libertarianism is the confusion of anarchy and freedom. Not only are they not the same thing; they are opposite poles of the political spectrum. Freedom - spontaneous order - is the ultimate form of order. Anarchy is the ultimate form of disorder."
"The Carlylean technique accepts only absolute veracity as the basis for any political strategy. The fact is: by sacrificing the occasional kitten or two, by twisting the truth a bit for the sake of this quarter's sales, libertarians and other rightists get nowhere. Their enemies are (a) in power today, and (b) operating an assembly-line rhinoceros abattoir for the sole benefit of His Satanic Majesty. "
"To a Carlylean, anarchy and tyranny are fundamentally and essentially allied and indivisible. And again: the apparent affinity between anarchy and freedom is wholly illusory. In fact: to maximize freedom, eradicate anarchy. To achieve spontaneous order: first, achieve ordinary, down-to-earth, nonspontaneous order. Then, wait a while. Then, start to relax."
Guys, I think I'm starting to take the Moldbug-pill. C-can anyone join me?
>first sign What like '#1'? Fuck that. It HAS to be the $ for Galt reasons. The "Gold standard" being implied in the flag is appealing I do admit. I myslef lean toward White on black more. A Gold dollar is probably better now that I think of it.
Blake Thomas
>Thus, to a Carlylean, the fatal error of libertarianism is the confusion of anarchy and freedom Not for Minarchists. This quote is decent teir but its logic is nowhere near air-tight. Carlyean Libertarianism is not the whole of the structure. Looks like I've found a Ludwig von Mises quote I actually dislike. Huh.
Xavier Ramirez
>can i have my civic nationalist beliefs in lrg? >civic nationalist
Sebastian Gomez
No, no, this is not Mises I'm quoting. I'm reading an article by Mencius Moldbug, the NRx guy.
"But the libertarian artillery officer faces a serious moral dilemma. Does artillery violate the natural rights of the target? I would say: the entire purpose of artillery is to violate the natural rights of the target. Clearly, if you could get your hands on the people your artillery is pointed at, and subject them to a full and fair judicial trial for whatever their offenses may be, you would have no need at all for artillery. Since you have no means by which to achieve this, you subject them to a 120-mm shell instead."
Absolute madman.
Carter Sanchez
Just realize it was a dumb autocorrect. Meant dollar sign. Sorry I'm phone posting while on vacation.
Jason Hill
>not Mises Oh thank god.
Adam Brown
Jews *benefit* from capitalism, but promote communism.
Here's the flag I was talking about. What do you think?
Matthew Ramirez
I like it
I don't really know what it means though
Samuel Barnes
I think it's a fence, as in "hippity hoppity get off my property."
Dylan Richardson
Unpopular opinion incoming. The Jews out Meritocracy'd us and their spot (right wing ones at least) is well earned and I begrudgingly salute them. We should have outcompeted them and we did not. Butthurt NatSoc kiddies need not apply. The Jews have leftists elements that I suspect they despise. Scapgoating the Jews for ALL of the worlds goddamn problems is a mental shortcut of the same breed Stlain committed with the Kulaks and Mao with the city dwellers. I secretly cannot fucking stand ((())) posting. Imagine if we shilled successfully to the point that our based Jewish allies started using the word "kike" to described be their non-Judaism practicing Marx fellating cousins in a MASS surprise event. (((Zuckerberg))) ect. Done after the following:
I had this idea for a "Meritocratic Party". Declare the Republican Party a failure to the right and vow to push it to the "center" (which I view, essentially, as a giant Middle Ground Fallacy anyway) and claim the right in its stead. Invite all Libertarians, Constitution Party members, and Paleocons disgusted with the GOP and form this new Meritocratic Party. It would be necessary to get a bunch of big name supporters to simultaneously endorse it and even convert some big name celebs in a surprise event. Can't be a "minor" party like the old Libertarians, this has to be a threat as a major one on it's inception. Imagine if Trump made this statement while also extending an apologetic olive branch to PaleoConservatism while also expressing his disdain for neocons, RINOs, cuckservatives, and "crypto-Democrats" (as I like to say). Imagine. In this new 3 party America the new Republicans in the ""center"" would be able to say the this society is a Constitutional Representative *Republic* and their party simply reflects this reality. So then the Democrats and Meritocrats to either side must say that their intent to do is is to modify the society with more Democracy and Meritocracy to the left/right respectively.
Elijah Garcia
ooh, I see it now
think you can slap a "trespassers will be shot" sign on it or something to make the message clear? honestly I first interpreted the fence as a fort or something
Xavier Rogers
I like the ones with the M-16, "Come and take it!"
Jason Allen
haha yeah, that one was top notch
gotta love texas
Asher Brooks
>Hey boyos, I'm trying to make an a priori argument for why homosexuals should never be in a position of power. kek. This is something I would love to hear. Cheers, lad
Christian Hernandez
THIS THREAD HAS HIT MAXIMUM JEW
Jayden Wright
Bump
Nathan Williams
Guys thinking about Rand and Objectivism just make me think of something wild. What if instead of Howard Roark Trump is actually embodying Francisco D'anconia by prentending to be generally liberal as an 1776-D underwater skydiving keikaku to permanently plant Objectivism in the country's polical landscape.
Easton Stewart
All I hear is that Moldbug has a personal line set up with Steve Bannon, and that Bannon likes him.
