Hey guys I was pawing through some stuff and realized something. Figured I'd post it here and see what y'all think: So prisoners under the 13th amendment are able to be considered slaves and/or servants. They are excluded as people and are such seen as property of the state. The exclusionary clause of the 13th amendment removes them from the 14th amendment's equal protections, somewhat. The 3/5ths compromise is still on the books, but is simply never used. Thus private prisons have not been paying taxes on their slaves. All that property being leased from the US government, that privatized prisons haven't payed for.
Now prisoners are still given some protections. Such as they are still considered citizens and still protected via the 8th amendment. This follows the further-protections clause. Minimum wage laws apply to all working US Citizens. If a prisoner is a citizen, they should be getting paid for their work or equally compensated. Many work for 10-13¢ an hour. There is no further compensation. One could argue they need to cover their own room and board, but they are property on lease from the federal government. It is simply maintenance. Prisoners who have or do work have had their funds stolen from them. Often times these people are not well off monetarily in life and as a system the prisons ILLEGALLY steal due to the clause of the 13th amendment.
Essentially the 13th amendment is used to justify slave wages when in fact it nullifies taxation (as one cannot tax property itself) on wages and privatized prisons have ignored a loophole leading to massive tax fraud.
I have a better idea. Why don't we just use prisoners as slaves and force them to build houses and buildings and ships and tanks and clothing and electronics without spending money and whip them when they aren't working hard enough?
Blake Williams
....but we already do that
Jeremiah Nelson
some states at least
Logan Howard
No I meant literally have our prisoners build our entire society and all the lluxories we use so that way everything is either free or significantly cheaper and affordable. Egypt and Rome and every society with slavery did this.
Andrew Miller
I mean problem is we have so many unethical and pointless laws that this becomes just forcing a slave class into existence by us enforcing bourgeoise laws
Evan Lopez
Because ownership over another man is a messed up idea.
1) It is actually more expensive to feed and clothe them vs. hiring wage slaves in India 2) Depress wages for non-prisoners 3) It's slavery
Anthony Myers
All great points. this is why we shouldnt let Peurto Rico into our country.
Michael Clark
>Because ownership over another man is a messed up idea. Are you questioning the literal core of democracy? Plato wouldn't be very happy with you.
Ryan Wood
Well we don't have to call them slaves then, we can call them just prisoners that are performing slavery tasks as punishment for their wrong doings.
Also, don't you wish that everything in life could be free or at least greatly cheaper without diminishing the quality and set up to the top of the line in it's quality? If we allowed our government to have our prisoners to have them work and build our society and products it would be an economic explosion of prosperity because you don't pay prisoners.
Elijah Edwards
Res Publica explicitly says that even kings should not own people and that ownership is a violation of freedom. Servitude for money is allowed, but it must be by your own free will
Kayden Watson
Man as property of the state is what I question.
Democracy is government as property of men.
Joseph Sullivan
Also the whole point is less so the argument over the 13th amendments clause and more for how the Prison Industrial Complex is committing massive tax fraud
Joshua Barnes
yeah except the only thing they are "producing" are a taxpayer funded vacation. They aren't fucking slaves they arre criminals. If you were a real lolbertarian you would see that economically a 9mm is cheaper than a 5-20year sentence.
Chase Edwards
1) Then feed them minimal amount of the cheapest possible food available. The French were excellent with this in Haiti for their slaves.
2) why would you pay prisoners?
3) what's wrong with that?
Bentley Gray
kys collectivist subhuman
Nathaniel Brooks
mate I have a degree in criminology so while your amazingly deep view of "kill every jaywalker" is inspiring, rehabilitation and retribution in theory will always be better
8th amendment. Go back to trying to join our country and be laughed away.
Adrian Phillips
What is the tax fraud? Where are there no taxes where there should be? Income tax?
Cameron Baker
they arent paying taxes on their slaves. Did you read the fuckin OP post
Adam Gonzalez
Ok Then well import prisoners from Africa to do all the work in building our economy and society. The 8th amendment only applies to American citizens.
Daniel Rivera
>Why don't we just use prisoners as slaves and force them to build houses and buildings and ships and tanks and clothing and electronics without spending money and whip them when they aren't working hard enough? >Egypt and Rome and every society with slavery did this. And North Korea, even today.
The answer is, because most prisoners in America are only imprisoned for about 3 years on average, and then released back into society and expected to function normally. It wouldn't be any good if someone went to jail for a year for fraud, expecting to get out on probation after only 6 months for good behavior, but then they died in the mines after only a few weeks.
Aiden Turner
1) This was the tactic of slaveowners in the 18th century. Most people do not like this. So it became the norm to take better care of slaves. In this case, it may be that the prisoner is so hated by society that nobody cares to make a fuss over their treatment. In this case, if that is your view, then we disagree on moral grounds rather than practical.
2) 13 cents an hour for construction jobs would depress wages for construction workers. And the same goes for other jobs. But you're actually right. In this case, I doubt anybody other than the government would purchase this labor. You're effectively advocating for a state run business that serves the state at an astronomical cost (which is spent on pensions for government workers).
3) I don't think you believe this, but if you do, then we disagree on moral grounds.
James Reyes
mate we get it, you get off to slavery porn. calm down.
Robert Wilson
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted
Are there strict rules and limits about this? If you are duly convicted of a crime you can be a slave? That general?
If someone is arrested for littering or jaywalking, or disorderly conduct noise complaint or something, sentenced to a week in jail, there is no limit to the type of slavery they can be subjected to?
Nathan Martin
What does the system of taxation say they should pay?
Alexander Roberts
Except by the 8th amendment so it cannot be brutal, painful, or torturous Those are all misdemeanors. and a county jail most likely wouldn't enforce this as the locale wouldn't be very pleased on the small level. A state prison, for sure they do this shit
Noah Williams
An interpretation which relies on the integrity of the judiciary to uphold, rather than the law itself.
Parker Bailey
ok, all I was asking above was: you are saying they are getting off the hook paying taxes, when and how much should they actually be paying taxes on, according to what?
The prisoners are paid, they should be taxed, and they arent?
The prison guards and owners dont pay taxes?
Or you are saying, prisoners are like a 'gift', and so every time they get a prisoner, the owner of the prisons should pay the government money, like estate tax, lotto tax,
Oliver Cox
That can literally be said for every law and all of law enforcement.
Wyatt Richardson
Which is why the cultural stock of a nation matters almost more than anything. It's a point I have to make often to remind people of the dangers of multiculturalism without having to even say multiculturalism.
Jace Wilson
aight so >The prisoners are paid, they should be taxed, and they arent? Prisoners are paid below minimum wage due to the slavery clause but they are still citizens so they can be worked for more hours etc but they are still owed a fair wage for fair work by the corporations they work under
>The prison guards and owners dont pay taxes? Guards aren't part of this, they're just watch dogs, further employees. This is essentially just for private prisons. Private prisons are given the prisoners by the state, essentially given slaves. The private prisons have deals with corporations for the prisoners to work for 5-25¢ an hour. The prisons aren't paying taxes on the prisoners.
>Or you are saying, prisoners are like a 'gift', and so every time they get a prisoner, the owner of the prisons should pay the government money, like estate tax, lotto tax kinda yeah. but it's a property tax. slaves aren't people.
Matthew Edwards
Hence why I'm here saying how fucked this whole racket is with the prison industrial complex
Caleb Collins
They are prisoners not slaves. Some even innocent. Keep corporate interests out of the justice system.
And stop going all Arbeit-macht-frei on your own people
Henry Bennett
You. I like you. when Merkle burns your country down, you can crash on my couch.
Xavier Richardson
>deals with corporations for the prisoners to work for 5-25¢ an hour. >The prisons aren't paying taxes on the prisoners. >kinda yeah. but it's a property tax. slaves aren't people
When a factory gets a few new machines they only pay taxes when they purchase the machines?
The prisons dont buy the prisoners, so there is not purchase to be taxed, they are gifted them? So they should pay a tax, as if they have won the lotto?
You think they should only pay taxes on prisoners that work?
Heres a thing maybe: The corporations give the prison money, for organizing this. That is money to have the prisoners work, and that money is taxed, and that money would not be given if there was no prisoners working.
you simply suggest, the corporations, and/or the owners of the prisoners should be paying more? And the prisoners should be paid more?
Adam Fisher
It would take jobs away from regular people dumbass.
Luke Wood
The prisons pay the GOVERNMENT for leasing out the PROPERTY aka slaves to them. This is NOT like a gift or lotto. Slaves were deemed PROPERTY They should pay a tax on ALL prisoners They should pay the prisoners who work MORE than they currently do because of minimum wage laws pertaining to CITIZENS not people. The prisoners are CITIZENS and PROPERTY but not people
It doesn't matter that the corporations pay the prisons. It's a separate fucking deal than federal taxes.
Kayden Cox
Spent a year with you guys. Good memories. Moving as soon as I get my degree given I find a visa sponsor.
Can't see raising a family here, also need to put money aside for parent's retirement bc they get no chance to save at this tax rate
Levi Johnson
You mean the manual labor jobs that can easily cause back injuries and physical injuries in general related to construction and vehicle building? Why the fuck would anyone want a job like that?
Bentley Nguyen
Eh just fucking marry someone. Fuckin RageAfterStorm probably has 1000 americans trying to wife her up right now
Ryder Bell
You're a fucking idiot. If there are then no jobs for normal people the economy collapses becayse they don't buy things.
Landon Parker
"why does the service or blue collar industry section still exist"
Jordan Baker
How long have you been living in your mothers basement, do we need to spoonfeed you basic information.
Colton Torres
yea but all thes slave things, they always seem to have some way of getting out of paying for anyting on it
Isaac Lewis
Eh enough people get angry at the Federal Government allowing total oversight for literally EVERY SINGLE privatized prison and EVERY SINGLE prisoner who worked a job below minimum wage in prison.... you can start a movement
Ian Butler
I bro love you
Tyler Nguyen
>The prisons pay the GOVERNMENT for leasing out the PROPERTY aka slaves to them. the only reason the prisons do this, and are able to pay that money, is because they get the money/incentive from the corporations. In that sense they are merely middle men.
>The prisons pay the GOVERNMENT for leasing out the PROPERTY aka slaves to them.
Well maybe that is just then, considered the tax?
You are saying there should be some tax, how often, every time the prison pays the government for leasing out the property to them: Prison pays government X. They should pay them X + tax. You dont think sales tax is included?
Ok, ok, youre whole point is they are property. What things are included in property tax, land? Or the point is, everything that can be said to be property, is included in 'to be property taxed'?
I just bought a chair, and dresser, it is now my property. Am I to be taxed on it often? Or just the once I paid for it?
Charles Price
>It's slavery
Welcome to Earth Its been around a very long time. Still is just not in the clucked west.
Zachary Brooks
........................jesus fucking christ man have you ever studied american history? Fucking 3/5 compromise wherein slaves can be considered taxable property but to balance it out they can be considered 3/5 of a person so as to allocate representatives for the southern states. The 3/5 compromise was never repealed just nullified by the 14th amendment. The exlucsionary clause of the 13th prevents the protections of the 14th. >THIS WAS IN THE FUCKING OP POST
Noah Lopez
>The prisons pay the GOVERNMENT for leasing out the PROPERTY aka slaves to them.
If the government did not lease them out, the government would receive no money in relation to the prisoner.
A government receiving money, is like a tax.
Lets say the prison pays the government $100 dollars per prisoner. Your complaint is that they should pay them like $115 per prisoner. A one time thing? Or then be taxed like $25 per money, after the initial lease payment?
Brandon Myers
Chill out bro, I dont assume every argument I come across is perfect, I am trying to learn about this subject, and play devils advocate attempting to find holes in your argument.
I am not claiming anything, but it is possible for a person to get heated for me being an ignorant bother, and it is possible for a person to get heated to me approaching a hole poking in their argument.
Adrian Brooks
Are you actually retarded?
Jacob Harris
>$25 per money per month*
Jonathan Smith
Would you take robotics over this idea? I'm not saying his idea is a good one, and obviously the effects of slavery would be the same as automation, if complete automation was available tomorrow.
I would agree with you, that jobs for normal people would be necessary. I only see this kind of idea happen if there is a surplus of employment rather than a shortage.
However should that society of abundant employment never come, and automation becomes increasingly efficient, would you agree that there could be a time where mandatory prison work or "slavery" could be a way to go?
Justin Ramirez
It's a tax. Like income tax or whathaveyou. The government isn't supposed to benefit from prisoners. government would profit MORE if they taxed the prisons pumping out cheap labor for the desk your at. No seriously, like 60% of furniture made in the USA is prison made. Lets say your couch was $300 wholesale, $400 retail. And lets say it took 4 people 3 hours to make. 4 prisoners paid at 15¢ an hour. 60¢ an hour. For 3 hours. Your couch took less than $2 worth of labor but you paid $400 for it.
Benjamin Wilson
Don't care. Convicts don't deserve shit.
Cooper Phillips
You're wrong. There would still be jobs, just not any manual labor or any jobs where it requires you to be super strong and no intelligence used at all and can easily get an injury or might die, the prisoners would do that.
Noah Watson
>bourgeoise Get out nigger.
Colton Myers
tax evasion =/= rape =/= theft =/= grand theft auto honestly I would. Then at least the people aren't being fucked over. They just aren't offered work. Which is shit and takes away meaning but still.
Again I'm not down on the labor itself, but the lack of a real pay.
Alexander James
upper and upper middle class laws. As in how the drug war and most "broken windows" enforcement strategies fuck over the poor first and hardest
Gavin Bennett
The four broad types of property taxes are land, improvements to land (immovable man-made objects, such as buildings), personal property (movable man-made objects) and intangible property. Real property (also called real estate or realty) is the combination of land and improvements.
Hunter Cox
do you have sources for that 60% of furniture made in the USA is prison made?
Ok so your argument is: Prisoners should be paid minimum wage (along with how many fruit pickers, dishwashers, waiters, bartenders, and busboys, not off the books?)
And when prisons lease working prisoners, they should pay a tax then, and also taxed every week?
And your final argument is: prisoners should not be being made to work?
Easton Ramirez
I gotta go now, but I genuinely was/am interested in what you are saying, just trying to understand it all, and exactly what you think should be done, according to law (and secondly according to what you think should be law)
Carter Miller
>most "broken windows" enforcement strategies fuck over the poor first and hardest and this is the way it should be, why are poor people breaking shit if they cant afford to replace it? should have just put the commi flag on faggot, you're fooling nobody
Anthony Cook
drug war law is a tax that is illegal to pay
blames the poor
Daniel Harris
>drug war law is a tax that is illegal to pay wrong
>blames the poor wrong again
it sees higher incarceration of the poor because they try to use illicit means to support themselves there are laws in this country and processes to change them, breaking them is not one of those processes
Oliver Howard
>illicit oh, you mean like by GAMBLING!!!???
Aaron Perry
>oh, you mean like by GAMBLING!!!??? ebay isnt gambling you bolshevik scum and neither are auctions. if your feeble mind cant understand such simple trivial facts you should say off the internet
Jordan Garcia
prisoners work?
Mason Evans
'Property taxes are usually billed once per year by the County Treasurer in the County where the property is located.'
How much taxes on each prisoner would you say (or whats the method of determining)?
Jordan Russell
some, youve at least heard of the 'prisoners make license plates' right?
Brandon Brooks
look how these guys claim this video i showed, is me being some type of communist whch of course cant argue with his level of intelligence, cause hes so smart and i also cant comprehend his blah blah
thats another STUPID idea ive heard by complete pieces of shit who try to tell me things. Let me tell you I know what I'm doing. That fucking video i showed is a button called MY BID that is CHANGING in front of my eyes
Any button I click on that isnt labelled, plainly what its for, and isnt referred to as some type
I ve got a big definition i made of spyware and any action you do on the internet, being it. after so much. so
i mean, im not here wanting to argue but IM right your stupid. You LIE
thats a stupid arguement to tell me that isnt a gambling machine. YA fucking communist jew loving dicksucker
Julian Johnson
minimal. I mean they're the equivalent of a robot that acts up. I honestly don't know shit about actual taxation formulation or finances though, so I can't really speculate. Blind area for me
Isaac Taylor
the button goes 437- 447. I didnt click on it. I don tcontrol the button
A BId by definition, bidding is something YOu are in control of, by bidding you have total control of your action
Lets argue over the definition of BIDDING.
-- Why if i dont control it do you believe I am respnsilbe for it?
Evan Myers
>minimal. I thought that was the main idea of (the, something of outrage of) your op and thread?
Or it is, more so, they should be making minimum wage in the first place?
Christian Hill
>It Is working, by definition, since nothing DIGITAL really has, a defition right its all BINARY
ITS A slot machine
thats called spyware when they try to take my actions and say they are for somethign else which ups tehir cut of the END SALE
ANd um i forget, realy waht my REAL POINT IS, but i dont remember if i saidfor sure, oh yea 1 day somethign about Slavery
Anthony Mitchell
no like the taxation should be minimal. For the prison to the feds. So lets say it's a tax on a percentage base. Prison Q can hold 10,000 inmates. They get 1,000,000 from Corporation M per year. But they also get federal subsidies and such as well as the labour force. So the tax on the prisoners shouldnt be so much that it would bankrupt completely but enough that a piece of that million is felt being lost
the minimum wage for prisoners is separate
Caleb Russell
if i could find you id beat your face in
lets take those sets of odds to the bank You LITTE BITCH
i hate these mfers
Bentley Butler
its showing real time what the big is up to?
its a countdown. 55secs. 54. 53. 52.51.50.49
At each of those moments, multiple people are trying to place a higher bid.
100. 101. 102 120 122
Once someone bids, 110, you cannot bid 105
as its highest bidder wins.
So they are trying to help you.
If you are willing to spend in a 10 dollar price range, with multiple people bidding.
You want to bid 100, but it jumps up to 105. So it asks if you want to bid 106.
You say yes.. oh.. someone just bet 107 quick.. 30 seconds. 29. 28
Angel Green
weal time wow thats amazing
so how does an auctioneer in a REAL auction do real time?
oh thats right its JEW LEVEL PROPOGANDA BRAINWASHING MIND CONTROL
BITHCING
non arguemnet
HOw dyou YOU MAKE THE POINT THAT IM RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT ACTION
THIS IS EXACTLY THIEIR PLAN
DUDES DESTROY THE INTENET WITH THIS SHIT
THEN COMLAIN TO THE GOVERNMENT THAT THEY CANT MAKE THEMONEY THEY DESERVE
THE GOVERNMENT STEPS IN CAUSE THE WHOLE THING IS IN PLACE AND TAKES NO BLAME
THEY STEAL EVERYTHIGN THEY WANT FROM YOU USING THE (((INTERNETNETENENTENTET0)))))
>IM GONNA STOP THE INTERNET NOW
Nathaniel Wright
why is this happening
Carson Thompson
look at this commie redd1t spacing queer sperg out cause he cant contemplate minimum bids
>if i could find you id beat your face in sure thing schlomo, dont you have a bris to attend?
Jeremiah Howard
FUCKING PWNEEEEED
YOU FUCKING GAMBLING TO KIDS SELLING MOTHER FUCEKRS YOUR ALL SICK
>BECASE YOU GUYS WORSHP THIS GUYS IS WHY.GIF
Levi Butler
IF THERE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE OVER THE INTENRET
THEN HOW WILL THEY GET THEIR MONEY TO KEEP UP WITH THEIRSLAVE TRADE GUYS THEY GOT GOING WORLD WIDE ON.Pointing out the problem, hoping people will DO SOMETHING you guys get dumber every year
Caleb Rodriguez
>so how does an auctioneer in a REAL auction do real time? the auctioneer says a price and you either bid or you dont
>but but I want to bid $1001 not $1100 fuckoff kike
Ryan Howard
Time to Repeal the 13th?
Levi Ward
so when 5 people start to raise their hand, (i start to click) he takes any actions in the movoe of a pixel designated by his 4MP camera inserted in his eye and attached to his brain, as a BID
And incrementaly incrases the next bid accordignly
isnt accused of trying to jack up the end csost for a bitg for himself
calls me a jew
wheres the jew crying out as he hits you gif at?
Brayden Harris
Amend i'd say. Slavery kinda uncouth in the modern day m8
if they didnt do that, you would be sitting looking at $100 bid, with your fingers on your chin thinking "do I really want that toy... hmmm" meanwhile in 'really' its up 101, 110, 120, 150,
"hmmm.. $100... thats a lot.. do I really want this toy... hmm"
*170, 200... 300.. 400*
"hmmm... $100 big... hmmm"
Isaac Stewart
type slowly and proof read your post redd1t pleb 3/4 of your posts are unintelligible
Jacob Morris
your right it took the auctioneer out of the auction and replaced it and its much better just because a machine does it now. before you can even acknowledge you seen it they cahnge it befoe yuo and take your action as a BID
LEts define BIDDING again what i said before. I made my definition BY your denying my definition
how do i again asked you once, How am I responsible for the button, If i dont control it?
the guy who is the auctioneer says bids, yo uhear them. and then you action to him and make a motion you are wanting to make that bid
if he took your farting as the bid he'd get fired
their is a human error that humans who do work take in
which you arent speak ing of for the computer machine doing the work or for the human who does the job doing the work
its by definition spyware digital terrorism by big companies like valve steam ms and of course google and ebay doing this type of shits, takeing human error out, blaming others and making money from it all, its slavery and they need boycotted or slavery will go on\
oh wait is hte only way for you guys to get by with this is to censor me? teehee
Jace Morgan
>here guys >pic related
Evan Richardson
this is what you guys will do if you dont stop stuid fuckign dumb companies who install spyware into the internet that guys telling you Im saying what they are donig. relates to OP. Thats a facet and this is like the thign where well that picture this is all you guys get out of it.jpeg.png
Jacob Edwards
You know what youre getting into on the site. You know what youre getting into when you go to an auctioneer.
A price is announced in "real time", could be seconds, could be milliseconds. (how do you think the stock market works?)
Many people attempting to be the ones gaining/accessing "the highest bid". This is highlighted more so in the online bidding site video as there is a number countdown. A time when the bidding is ended. With many people observing this, wanting the item and there can be only one.
There are very little odds, that if you are placing a bid at a time when the number is fluctuating in real time, drastically, +30-100 people that "really want the item/to be the highest bidder", that your real time witnessing of the price and your opportunity to real time place that bid on the item within 5 or so dollars of your """current""" witnessing price, little odds that you will win, and if you did, great odds the 5 dollars was worth it
Samuel Jackson
NO its not like thtat its like a slot machine
THe value is dictated of an auction by you.
If i dont control the button its not my responsibiolity
Its like this explaining it to you .. i just wont ill come kick your ass. That makes explaining to yu. Because you use NO LOGIC or SENSE in your explaining.
You cannot control how fast youcan click. BUt hey nevermind that part ill just come kick your godamn ass alright, and not talk to yuo no more.
you have nmo right to claim anything over me with your stupid fuckign mouth. THis is able to be resolved online but you are a godamn dumb fuck
NOONE IS THIS FUCKING DUMB YOUR A DUMB FBI AGENT THREATENING ME ONLINE ILLCOME AND KIILL YUO
SLAVE SHIT FUCI YOU
Elijah Jenkins
ITS A SLOT MAHCHINE YOU GODAMN BITCH
ARGUE MORE YOU FUCKING NIGGER
REMMBER THE FBI THEY KNIVED NIGGER INTO IT WAS NEAR ME
OH RIGHT THE STORY WAS A LIE THEY WROTE RAT ONTHEIR CHEST
AND YOU FUCKING PIGS LIED TO GET ATTNETIONT TO YUR FUCKING INBRED ASS
ITS A SLOT MACHIEN YOU CAN GO TO HELL MOTHER FUCKER
I KNOW PEOPLE WHO WHERE THERE SO IT WAS RAT THEIR KNIVED ON THAT RAT
FUCKING PUSSIES FUCKIGN PUSSIES YOU CAN COME ON OVER I GOT A WEBCAM SET RIGHT UP
Carter Turner
LETS PROVE YU DONT REALLY HAVE A PONIT ARGUE THE OPPOSITE argue the definition or argue, that the Ebay bidding isnt a SLOT MACHINE
you cant
intel is the opposite of intel
fbi investigating nothing
so you acting stupid is inbred activity you are engoucraged somehow probably by fake USA shit
Carson Allen
its a slot machine you dumb mother fucker. its come on the point of human interaction.
you fucking whining and crying over little amounts of time doesnt matter.
time is relevant you got a clock yourself. You can time the end yourself. you know this and you watch that by your clcoko to timethe end of an auction THATS WHA I ALWAYS DID
what they are doing by no arguements agaisnt me is a slot machine. You cant argue other wise
But hrury up and go get your godamn money from gabe newell,