Would Universal Basic Income actually be beneficial to the right?

Imagine if we established UBI, this would accomplish the goal of basically getting people to shut the fuck up. If most people were comfortable with UBI, not everyone would be clamoring for political power, and identity politics would severely decrease.

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its not just about UBI
they have tricked themselves into believing in surplus "theft"

UBI is the epitome of r-selection and r-selection is cancer to civilization. Get fucked, commie.

>Universal Basic Income
this meme again

It's only fun if a few people get it.

>If most people were comfortable with UBI, not everyone would be clamoring for political power
Wishful thinking, they'd be going after more. Women and blacks in general take a lot more out of the system than they put in, and it's not enough...it'll never be enough.

But that's kind of the point. The r-selected people will always be r-selected, so might as well keep them at the bottom of the hierachry via UBI, and the k-selected will be able to achieve more. Without UBI the r-selected folks will start revolutions or demand more power and thus have more influence

Fuck no - hell no, it's only the necessity of work right now that's keeping the bulk of would-be liberal activists from being more politically active.

You would have to cut existing benefits and drastically slash the administrative state to afford it, so I imagine a lot of liberals would actually be against it.

Newsflash for you, OP: if you can't compete against r-strategists then you aren't a K-strategist.

The answer is allowing the collapse to run its course, not taking on more unsustainable debt to keep the specter of free resources.

How would you establish UBI? What numerical guarantee would there be that people would be comfortable with it and for how long before they start to want more than what their neighbor has?

It wouldn't get anyone to shut up, least of all libs and niggs.

As soon as UBI is a thingmpeople will clamor for more because 'it's not a living income in San Francisco' or some other form of retarded shit.

Neo feudalism and enslavement to the state

Satiating the r-strategists to the point where they stop complaining is a form of competition.

Why don't niggers who advocate for UBI understand inflation?

no they wouldn't
they would just demand more free stuff

>hurr cost of living is going up because everyone has more money
>we need more reparations and stuff

Pretty sure it's a bait, I'll go for it nontheless. Note: I'm no scholar in economics as well as politics - it reflects my mere opinion.

There are 3 categories of goals humans can have:

1) low effort, low reward
2) high effort, high reward
3) unrealistic effort, no reward

Activities that fall in category 1 are usually fast-paced things, underlying the law of diminished returns (eating fast food, 10 sex partners/week and so on). With increasing time they will lead to depression, because you recept the rewards as increasingly unsatisfying, ultimately culminating in self-destruction and utter unhappyness. Goals of category 3 are not reachable. You can put as much effort into it, you won't achieve it (e.g. an African that wants to build a rocket to colonize mars, to exaggerate a bit) which has the same consequences as only pursuing category 1. What makes people happy are the goals of category 2:
Usually, people taking care solely of themselves, lifing self-sustained, have most of their activities (such as hunting, growing food, maintenance) in category 2. Because they need high effort, they also get high reward - as in: survive. This kind of goals makes people happy. They have a purpose in life - sustain themselves, their families (and maybe small parishes) and preserve the surroundings, in order that their children can have the same or better opportunities.

Now comes the problem: Because of our highly "technologized" world, humans have - for the most part - only goals and activities available that belong to either category 1 or 3, because survival isn't a thing in our society anymore. Anyone, even bums, can tell you, not matter how "bad in a situation they see themselves".
What's the consequence ? People will strive to do shit to set themselves goals they think belong to category 2. But as 99.99% fall into categories 1 and 3, they will make up, even create themselves, causes which they fight then can fight against on social and economical ....

1/?

This is so dumb that you have to be a leftist pretending to be right-wing.

>Satiating the r-strategists to the point where they stop complaining is a form of competition.

No, that's called enabling them.

levels in order to delude themselves they're having a cause. Some do it in a Christian or Buddhist sense - by living compassionate. These people tend to be actually happy. But that's far from being the norm - as we all can observe every day.

Now to the basic income: As you see, the problem in first place is that "everything is taken care of already" by the system and it will do anything to prevent people from dieing (contrary to "going to shit"), because no people mean no system.
So if you'd implement the basic income, you could be sure a 100% that this particular """problem""" (in the eyes of the people) would be fixed but they would convienently just make up other problems, they could [rainbow] knight for. See gay rights, trans rights, hate speech, x, y, z, ... the list is endless.

Until people cannot learn to abandon instant gratification and delusions - and just live [whether in alignment with God or Nature or whatever] - and most importantly destroy the financial system that runs on an exponential function through usury - making people mindless slave drones through technological means and the "efficiency-hype" in first place - there will be no change.

There. Will. Be. No. Change. Before.

2/2

In the USA, identity politics is entirely about hatred of the white man and having UBI would simply give the coalition of minorities more time to obsess over that hatred

Until people learn to*

the reason why identity politics is pushed by regular citizens is literally because they are so comfortable they have no other problems

But the blacks already have this and it's the reason they're no longer kangz and shit. Welfare slows the human need to progress, without fear of having nothing most people would become gelatinous slaves to the nanny state.

>TFW my mate's sister is dating a literal commie who told me he stays on benefits on purpose to be a fulltime activist

No nigger, go back to Africa.

Lol samefag

Be cruel, remove all welfare, replace it with a negative income tax.

addition:

I mean look at the resentment unbiased.
>the poor have too few, the rich too much
But do they ? Just as poor people, they get up, take a dump, try to earn money, eat, care for their children (hopefully), have some freetime, eat again, go to bed and repeat.
If you factor out all the fancy and shiny shit, rich people live just the same lifes.
Now what is it that people are enraged about ? That Trump eats caviar ? Or that [insert random musician] drives a Lamborghini ? People envy the most hollow shit you can think of. This is not about "we're actually disadvantaged". It's about "I want the same shiny shit they have and I want it without puttin in the effort", because they're being fed this narrative from the beginning on.
Typical division of the people. There's no uniting cause and the system will do it's thing to make sure it prevails.

Note: I'm not rich myself. I started out poor, graduated in theoretical physics and chemistry and now I'm middle class. And I basically live the exact same life as before, just with a bigger flat and a """better""" car

>it would get people to stfu

You are talking about niggers. And not just black niggers, but anyone who feels they "deserve" another person's labor, wealth, and property because they exist. Niggers are never satisfied with what they now have, they will always "need" more. Today they "need" healthcare from cradle until they are 95 and need hip surgery, all on my dime. Tomorrow they will "need" a bigger house. They will "need" a car. They will "need" educations for their 12 children they can't feed except on the income I give them.

Never give an inch to niggers.

>this would accomplish the goal of basically getting people to shut the fuck up

They would never shut up. The left's entire playbook is whining and playing the victim, they would still find shit to complain about, because that's all they know how to do.

Why do you want to end identity politics?

>Why don't niggers who advocate for UBI understand inflation?
If you replace all currency creation (monetary policy) so it could only be created as it was distributed by UBI and you only created enough so that currency held it's value not inflating or deflating.

Then what?

> Would taking other people's money be beneficial to conservatism
OP is a Pole

UBI for specific groups within Whites would be good. UBI on a large scale will be a necessity once automation kicks into high gear.

People in the west are more comfortable than ever before in history and the people who have it best (upper middle class liberals) are also complaining and rioting in the streets. UBI will be the death of mankind. EVERYONE will be unhappy, everyone will find things to complain and riot about because they have no purpose in life and are not challenged by their environment.

Go fuck yourself, communist swine.
UBI is literally fucking communism.
The only economic system that is "Right-Wing" are free markets.

Explain how a UBI is incompatible with a market based economy.

>and identity politics would severely decrease

No. Identity politics only goes one way.

>How is theft incompatible with free markets
Gee, that's a toughie.

Fuck off, slaver.

How is distributing new currency to the people rather than creating all new money as bank debt theft?

Or do you think banks have some right to make all currency and have people pay them for the privilege?

UBI/NIT is a great idea but it MUST be paired with the repeal of all social welfare programs perhaps with the exception of health care. No food stamps, no housing assistance, no per-child benefits.

Why?

Austrian economic theory is just as much an utopy as communism is.
I admire Hoppe and Rothbard, but it's just not practical or even applicable in reality. Because similar to other ideological utopies, it relies on the very fact that "everyone everywhere" does it. And this is not going to happen - sadly I gotta admit, but I have to. Because the problem in the end is not "who will build roads lel" or shit, but how you're going to implement it. And just as communism, it would need big government and shit to enforce it in first place before you actually abandon it (yeah, it doesn't work with communism, it doesn't work either with ancapism) and live the utopy.

All you have is that straw man?

Fuck off. I would have zero compunction in killing would be thieves like yourself. Back to your porn, serf. The rest of us have to work to support your NEET lifestyle.

Means-tested benefit systems reduce the marginal value of earned income which is a disincentive to work. Besides that, providing per-child benefits to mothers is a socially corrosive and frankly dysgenic practice.
All of these programs have massive administrative overhead that could be eliminated with direct disbursal of funds.
And the combination of the two would be ridiculously unaffordable.

People would blow this money on iphones and other bullshit instead of necessities like health savings accounts and long term investments.

Millennials are particularly susceptible to this, that is why I am very much against giving free money to anyone who doesn't work for it.

>All you have is that straw man?
I asked why UBI can't be used with a market economy. You replied that it's theft without answering the question.
I explain a system of UBI that uses no taxes to fund it.

You state that's a strawman, which just for your own information is not actually the correct meaning of strawman because you haven't made any statements that I'm misrepresenting.

>Fuck off. I would have zero compunction in killing would be thieves like yourself. Back to your porn, serf. The rest of us have to work to support your NEET lifestyle.
In other words you have no idea what you are talking about, have given no thought to the topic and are not able to conduct yourself like an adult.

Fine. Fuck 'em. Imagine a society where nobody buys your sob story because everyone knows exactly how big your monthly check is.

>UBI
>I want big daddy state to decide how much gibs I get and what is "livable wage"
>Any inflation at all with UBI not rising to compensate
>Entire population under livable wage

Retarded. Literally communism without people actually working.

I don't know how you managed to make a less functional, even more retarded version of communism. But you did.

Literally: What if communism, but you don't have to work?

While in theory it would be better than the welfare system, there is a major flaw.

People will just keep voting for a higher and higher UBI until it is unsustainable.

So you think that a UBI can't exist beside social programs because of cost.

What if the UBI was 'paid' out of the creation of new currency replacing the current system of make all money bank debt and borrowing new money into existence, and cost nothing other than the distribution costs which you point out would be very low comparatively.

Could we then still maintain a system of for example disability coverage for injured workers?

>Literally: What if communism, but you don't have to work?
Sound like we have robots doing all the work for us.

UBI would not be free. Your purchases would be tracked, your budget would be shared (and possibly "corrected") by the state. Falling afoul of the state would make it incredibly easy to "starve you out" and even detect "dissent" before it even had a tangible form.

While the "inflation will cancel it out" people are idiots (how much will inflation have to rise to make some positive number = 0?), there's still a kernel of truth in there. I'm not an economist but I don't believe in free monies, go crazy with it and you will fuck everything up.

And the people that own the are going to just take care of everyone out of pocket.

youtube.com/watch?v=oDkHLPanjkQ

cash

I actually don't worry too much about this. First, people haven't demanded UBI yet, the general feeling is one of great skepticism. Second, higher UBI reduces your advantage as a working person vs the unemployed. And if there's one thing people like more than having money it's knowing their neighbor has less than them.

>identity politics would severely decrease.
no it would increase because people would want a group they can claim to be a part of to get more

Well the key is like everything to have a proper balance. I freely admit that too much or too little new money will cause inflation or deflation.

The A-B=C theory for social credit solves the question of how much money is made.

Take every sale made to people, or if you were a European something that would have a VAT charged. Call that A.

Take all the compensation paid to people as wages, benefits or dividends. Call that B.

When you subtract A-B you end up with a number that is the exact amount of currency you need to create within the economy to hold the current value of the money over some reasonable time period (3 months, 4, a half year something).

>implying westerners don't already get UBI because their mommy and daddy give them a shit-ton of money.You're basically crying that state-sponsored UBI will somehow make people lazy and umotivated but you forget the fact that most of you are leeches to society and your parents who probably work their ass off so their autistic kid gets to jerk off and take part in the great meme war--glorified children.

It's not communism you retarded burgers.It's always fascinating to see how much propaganda has been fed into you by some cool and hip cultish youtube intellectual.If anything, UBI is the final admission that capitalism finally delivered on its promises.
There is much work to be done in the world.Useful work.But this work does not get repayed in the current system.

I'm not necesseraly in support of UBI but unless you've got an above 120 IQ and are ready to face the incoming dark enlightment where the rest of the elites just move to Shanghai and mind their own bussniess while you and the rest of the world suffers then I'd love to hear what your solutions for overcoming the second industrial revolution are.

>And if there's one thing people like more than having money it's knowing their neighbor has less than them.

Sounds like some pathetic white person's mantra. Read the chronicles

Stop.

They won't distribute it via cash. It will be done via card, because it's "more efficient" and "its the future" and "its easier to track fraud and waste." EBT cards ("food stamps") are the model. Retarded millennials will go along with this.

We asked the NSA to monitor terrorists and wound up with the recordings and metadata of every email sent and every phone call made in a government database. This won't even involve "overreach" -- this vast data gorge is by design.

I don't mean that literally but income is the primary method of dickmeasuring in societies that are stable enough that you can't just use violence. I don't think it's particularly a white thing. I'm not going to read whatever that is.

>And the people that own the are going to just take care of everyone out of pocket.
No, they will sell to people their products and services so they can become wealthy and spend their money on non automated service if they want or just buying more expensive automated service from different providers.

The owners make the products and people buy them with their UBI. The owners become wealthy and the people become fulfilled consumers. Even with high automation some people will still work, either for money or for fun. The motivated will get ahead while consumers rest and enjoy their life as they can with their income.

>Would Universal Basic Income actually be beneficial to the right?
Yes. Privatize everything, remove welfare, fire the bureaucrats and hand out checks instead.
youtube.com/watch?v=xtpgkX588nM

Universal Basic Income is INCOMPATIBLE with democracy.

If you insensitive people to do nothing, most will happily do so. The actually motivated ones will hold the brunt of the economy on their backs, getting ripped off royally to feed the complacent majority. What do you think the said majority do with their political power ? Demand more gibs of course. So that the actual producers either be literally enslaved to work for free, or they drop out of the economy and join the slobs. Either way the system would collapse as it will grow out of control and crash to a halt.


So, If you apply for the UBI, you should be stripped out of your voting power as you no longer produce for your nation and should not have a say how it's run.

What if someone's sick and or disabled and requires more each month than a "livable wage" cheque?

>identity politics would severely decrease.
Blacks would demand more, women would demand more. The thing is, democrates will demand more and more no matter how much they get.

Their family, friends or charity can take care of them.

>What if someone's sick and or disabled and requires more each month
Die and stop sending your family to the poor house.

Some people work, most is done by automation. Those working people sell their goods and services for a profit at a price they set.

Yet somehow you say this is slavery and is incompatible with voting for government.
I don't think you have put enough time into thinking about this topic.

Why would people bother working, excluding the rare few who genuinely enjoy their jobs or have some higher purpose in their heart?

It actually would benefit me, but I would never support it or participate in it because I don't feel I have a right to money I didn't earn. I'd much rather live poor off my own sweat than live comfy off the sweat of better men.

I'll always stand against UBI. NEETS and niggers should starve to death if they don't want to work.

I can't even tell you how many young men I've met who work long hours at shit jobs and blow the majority of their income on cars or motorcycles. Higher purpose in their heart my ass.

What he said wasn't that complicated yet somehow that's what you took from it.

>I don't think you have put enough time into thinking about this topic.

I'm afraid this applies to you.

>Why would people bother working, excluding the rare few who genuinely enjoy their jobs or have some higher purpose in their heart?

Because they want to get wealthy and buy more than they can with a UBI.
They have an interest that they can't pursue on their own and need to join a larger organization.
Because the actual work isn't that hard and they pay is great.

How much per person do you think a UBI should pay?

This is gonna be good

UBI is shit. The dregs of humanity will just demand more and more money until we reach peak communism, then millions die.

Bullshit. You can never have too much free shit. Whining is eternal.

that's insane, there's no way the West and developing East could give a US middle-class life to the billions in poverty.

>What he said wasn't that complicated yet somehow that's what you took from it.
Yeah but it's making a huge number of unfounded assumptions.

He assume that their will be no market economy any more and that producers can't set prices.
>motivated ones will hold the brunt of the economy on their backs, getting ripped off royally to feed the complacent majority.

That somehow the people can identify people that do work and force them to work without compensation of any kind even while people are being given a UBI... What are they spending it on again, if they are just making the people that do work to give away their products?
>the actual producers either be literally enslaved to work for free

It's less an argument against UBI as it is an argument against democracy.

I'm also curious about the actual amount. Would you say $500 a month? Can you survive on that in the States?

>How much per person do you think a UBI should pay?
>This is gonna be good
A-B=C
C / total population = amount given per period of time.

This number scales up and down depending on what the production and consumption is, how much productivity their is (the degree of automation).
As automation goes up the amount people get paid also goes up. If we find a use for lots of people the amount paid goes down as more people work.

The ability to consume and produce is limited by the physical ability to produce goods and services and the desire of people to consume.

I'm waiting for him to answer this too so I can multiply it by the US population and laugh as he tries to explain where all that money is going to come from.

So 1 dollar a person?

Not even close.

Maybe if you live in a tent in the desert or something.

NO! we all deserve the right to better our lives - ubi takes away any incentive to do anything ever. Plus the world has already tried this multiple times and it has failed. USSR, China, N Korea, Venzuela

>So 1 dollar a person?
Likely low.

Take the total amount of money that is created by current monetary police and then expanded by fractional reserve banking, then reduce that by some fraction lets say 10%.

That's likely a reasonable ballpark number to start with at our current levels of automation.

If we ever do get a cheap dependable multi purpose robot worker expect to see that number sky rocket as productivity goes through the roof and people become massively more wealthy.

If the government and large cooporations already own the land and already enslave you to it there is no chance of ever knowing a free market and most of the population in the US would greatly benefit from a universal basic income because they have no land or resources to themselves to enter into this fabled free market to exploit and enslave that which exists within to produce and barter trades and wares and services.

Oh. There was something else i wanted to hit with.
If it is indeed $500 - that's exactly average joe's income tax. Let's say 40k a year. 15% for the sake of simplicity, it's just over the bracket i think. That's 6k, 500 a month.
I was going to ask why doesn't anyone meme abolishment of income tax, but i see it would not be enough.

>How much per person do you think a UBI should pay?
niskanencenter.org/blog/universal-basic-income-is-just-a-negative-income-tax-with-a-leaky-bucket/

>this would accomplish the goal of basically getting people to shut the fuck up

yeah, now they'd surely be contempt and stop asking for more

*content

sorry

unless you own land there's no reason to even fight for capitalism unless that capitalism which enslaved you to it protects you with it and takes care of your every need. domesticated by it and molded by it with no means to change leads to starvation and death. there's no jobs there's no education there's nothing to do but be a slave and fend for yourself against your fellow citizen, government, and nature.

ok, let me explain this in small fractions you might understand

UBI is made by taking taxes from the producers in society

UBI is given to everyone

everyone have a right to vote

(almost) everyone vote for more UBI

more taxes are issued on the backs of the producers

to the point they either get demotivated and stop producing or the taxes reach 100% of the produced in effect making them slaves

so if everyone have the right to vote under UBI system the system will fall
Is that comprehensible enough or do you want me to dumb it down further ?

blah blah blah - the producers are overly rich and need their money taken away, because most of it is scammed from the rest of society, and they are greedy hoarders. Fuck off

this

But the plebs already vote for as much as they can. How does UBI make any difference? In fact if you remove government programs you'd end up with fewer government employees which in turn should reduce the incentive for the public to vote for higher taxes.