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watch.pair.com/heritage.html
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damn I guess if your poor you should just get polio and die

If the government wasn't paying ultra high prices for all the medicine a vaccine wouldn't cost so much.

Healthcare is a right. It's not illegal.

However, that doesn't mean it should be socialized through the government.

Imagine if tax payers were paying for free guns. The right to bear arms doesn't mean guns should be socialized and dispersed to anyone and everyone.

How about don't be poor, or go to the EUSSR, I hear they are taking every worthless leech these days.

user, healthcare is the worst free market commodity there is.
Lets be honest. Doctors and nurses and hospitals and all of the people who actually provide healthcare are not the ones profiting from it in our current model and they're not the ones who are going to stop profiting from it in a socialized model.
The insurance industry has maneuvered itself into a position of inscrutable necessity while providing nothing but middle-man paper shuffling and profit raking.

so your saying if the medical industry and health insurance industry weren't such greedy fucks and sold their products are their actual price and not a %5,000,000 markup the government would actually be able to buy it at a reasonable price and then give it to their citizens? except the government doesn't want to do that because big pharma and health insurance giants have been lobbying Washington for years in order to get those in power to accept the current arrangement and pass laws to only favor their profit margins while screwing over the middle to low income taxpayer (aka average joe)

I guess health care isn't a right
we should all pay our corporate overlords for their overpriced and diluted medical stock and hope we survive

or you know
we could all tell them to go fuck themselves and just chip in a few extra pennies on our taxes each year to help pay for people that got sick the previous year, kill the health insurance industry, and have medical supplies tank in price to their actual value now that there isn't a corporate incentive to try and sell them for as high a price as possible

but that would mean that you helped pay for someone else's well being and did something altruistic
can't have that as the low income farmer from Oklahoma no sir. My kids don't need to be vaccinated and poor people and hippies should all die if they need to see a doctor not to mention I aint payin nofin for no gender switch surgery (which would be labeled as a cosmetic surgery and would not be covered by universal health care)

seems about right to me

>didn't read the OP

>health care is illegal in some countries
Canadian right?

a single payer system is more efficient. For instance, medicaid has a efficiency of around 30%, but private insurance companies have extra overhead that pushes the number up to around 50%. Fuck ObamaCare. We were supposed to get a single payer system like the rest of the 1st world countries.

It's because of private insurance. The government negotiates for lower prices on all healthcare it pays for, whether it's the VA or Medicare, they pay about 1/3 of what private insurance companies reimburse us for the same tests.

In countries with socialized medicine/single payer systems, yeah, we can't charge as much for the tests because there's only one entity paying for it, and they have determined how much they're willing to pay and we can take it or leave it. So.. the price comes down to what they're willing to pay.

Private insurance is a scam, the hospitals and drug companies scam the insurance companies, and the insurance companies scam their policy holders.

insurance is not health care though

in a free market doctors would market to you just like they do for oil changes

Why don't you want to be free?

I agree
you can thank your republican congressmen for killing the original ACA bill and denying us a half decent system

yet for some reason we are going to pin the failings of it all on the left when the original vision for the bill was pretty much exactly what most people that visit pol would have wanted and benefited from

>just chip in a few extra pennies on our taxes each year
Its never ever just a few pennies you money grubbing leech.

because we can't market doctors like we market oil

if this was the case small town america wouldn't have any doctors because not enough of them get sick every year to work a livable wage as one
doctors would have to set up shop in areas where there are enough people so that they could make money
either that or the health care providers in small areas would charge outrageous fees

except in a nation of 300+ million it would only actually be around 10c a year per person to cover every injury or illness when paying for actual price medical supplies and service

the only real downside is now poor people are allowed to see the doctor so sometimes you have a first come first serve basis and have to wait in line to see someone for non critical things
god forbid we save millions of lives and trillions of dollars but force people to wait in line when they have a broken collar bone every now and then

did you ever think that government involvement was the problem? I mean, the government already controls and pays for most healthcare in America. We have hundreds of thousands of pages of laws and regulations governing it which removes and semblance of a free market. If the market was free, why would my employer provide me with health insurance, they sure as shit don't give me car/home insurance.

because we can't market oil like we market food

if this was the case small town america wouldn't have any mechanics because not enough of their cars break down every year to work a livable wage as one
mechanics would have to set up shop in areas where there are enough people so that they could make money
either that or the auto shops in small areas would charge outrageous fees

except in a nation of 300+ million it would only actually be around 10c a year per person to cover every breakdown and oil change when paying for actual price of car repair and service

the only real downside is now poor people are allowed to fix their cars so sometimes you have a first come first serve basis and have to wait in line to see someone for non critical things
god forbid we keep millions of cars running and trillions of dollars but force people to wait in line when they have a broken radiator every now and then

damn I guess if your poor you should just get a fucking job

They give you insurance because it's deductible with no questions asked.

Company cars do happen, but the IRS is more particular about business use, same goes for housing. A company could offer you both of those things if it's for their benefit rather than yours.

If you work and live on an oil rig your living quarters are paid for and fully deductible. It's explicitly barebones and done for the convenience of the company, but it still works in the same fashion.

>if this was the case small town america wouldn't have any doctors because not enough of them get sick every year to work a livable wage as one
>doctors would have to set up shop in areas where there are enough people so that they could make money
>either that or the health care providers in small areas would charge outrageous fees

Except that already happens. If you left the Bay Area, or any other metropolitan area you clearly live in, you would see that your scenario already occurs in the Central Valley, as well as other rural parts of CA. No amount of subsidised medicine would help that unless you propose we subsidise doctors' living conditions to entice them to move to undeserved areas.

Same reason college tuition is so high

>along with
So really, it could be a right.

I agree. Education, healthcare, infrastructure, and access to justice (courts/police etc.) are basic tenants of society. I fully support a single payer system despite having many libertarian views on other issues.

I live in a town of around 6,000 in Rural Montana

incentivising doctors through other means is a fine idea
but treating doctors like a commodity on the free market is not a viable solution

the fact of the matter is taking a quarter of your paycheck to pay for health insurance every month isn't a viable living expense for most people that hold low income jobs
before the ACA I knew people working 2 jobs that couldn't afford health insurance
on top of things like car insurance, rent or mortgage, electricity, food, and other life expenses low income families often have little to no money left to even have buying power in the economy

Who pays for healthcare now? Everybody. Who pays for it under single-payer? Everybody. What's the difference? Instead of everybody having to negotiate separately with a multi-trillion dollar international banking, insurance and healthcare industry, a collective entity makes those negotiations. It's the union approach... and it means we no longer pay 1000X the prices everyone else pays.

‘US afford to do it

Warren Buffett: Single Payer Is ‘the Best System’ for America

A single-payer program is "the best system for US" Buffett said Monday

news.grabien.com/story-warren-buffett-endorses-single-payer-health-care-we-can-affo

The concept goes back to at least 1970, when the conservative Heritage Foundation proposed an individual mandate as an alternative to single-payer health care.[118] It was championed for a time by conservative economists and Republican senators as a market-based approach to healthcare

The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Senator John Chafee as the Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act, contained a "universal coverage" requirement with a penalty for noncompliance—an individual mandate—as well as subsidies to be used in state-based 'purchasing groups'.[124] Advocates for the 1993 bill included prominent Republicans such as Senators Orrin Hatch, Chuck Grassley, Bob Bennett and Kit Bond


After the 2016 election of Donald Trump as U.S. President, Heritage Foundation played a major role in shaping his transition team

they started obamacare

watch.pair.com/heritage.html
watch.pair.com/rockefeller.html

>The idea of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) originated with Heritage Fellow and CNP member, Richard Allen
exposingmodernmugwumps.com/tag/rockefeller-heritage-connection/

CFR-affiliated foundations include: The Carnegie Foundation, The Ford Foundation, The Heritage Foundation, and the Rockefeller Brothers Foundation, among others.
spingola.com/funding fathers.htm

newswithviews.com/Nelson/kelleigh377.htm

Changing your flag does not change your ID senpai

shieeeet


the CEO of united health group is typically the person with the highest amount compensation in the US each year
you can look up full compensation of public company execs on forbes database and this dude makes like $120 million PER YEAR

>can't afford health insurance
>has a mortgage(!)
>has car insurance(!)
>"life expenses"(!)

If health insurance is taking so much of your poverty-stricken friend's income, maybe he ought not to have bought a house, cars and all the smart phones and modern amenities that absolutely are not essentials. Tell him to say goodbye to fast food and hello to beans and potatoes, take his faggoty ass to the bus stop and learn to make friends with Goodwill.

The poor in this country are only poor because they live beyond their means. People will forego healthcare because they're too good to eat cheap or ride the bus or somehow exist without the internet.

Tenets.

That observation is moot because if that CEO took a $120 million pay cut and redistributed it among the insured, it wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

I'm for single payer, but that argument always sucks.

By cutting out the middle-man when talking to the people, he nullifies the influence the media have on people. It works like this; Politican says something - media publishes it after slanting it according to their own agenda - the people get to hear a biased version of what the politician said.

By talking directly to people he is giving a middle-finger to the MSM and also gives them something to focus on for the day, the more tweets the better, cause you can bet that they will dissect it and try to demonize him. But they're also spread thin and their attention is split rather than united, which allows many things to fall through the cracks and it exhausts his enemies.


the middle-man should be abolished in every industry, especially healthcare (insurance, pharma) speculating on shit, hiking prices, and damaging services

And after Obamacare the prices got much worse. Liberalism fucks up everything.

>live beyond their means
>paying rent to live in a dwelling
>paying mandatory care insurance because there is no public transportation system in rural america
>thinking he isn't already eating rice and beans every night

thats some nice ignorance of the lives of low income families you got there friend

glad to see you grew up in a middle to upper income household and never knew what it was like to live from paycheck to paycheck

these things aren't living beyond peoples means
owning a car is mandatory for most low incomes jobs since you need to be able to get yourself to and from work
living in a shelter is also pretty much mandatory for a human
eating is also mandatory

it also doesn't help then that these people are more likely to have children because they are bored out of their fucking minds since they have no money do go and do things so they just sit and fuck like rabbits or resort to drugs which both put even greater economic strain on a low income family

we treat the poor like they are diseased in America when the real solution is funnily enough the capitalistic one in giving them more purchasing power so that they can entertain themselves after they secure life's basic amenities

the poor in this country are not poor just because they live beyond their means in fact the vast majority of them are not like that

the prices went up because of additions and changes to the bill that were demanded by right wing congressmen who are in the pockets of big pharma and health insurance
the bill was origionally meant to be a first step into bringing these industires to heel but using their monetary power and influence over the right they trashed an otherwise very serviceable bill and then in a position where he didn't want to sacrifice the whole deal and at least help some people Obama pushed through a half measure that ended up hurting some people but helped a lot more

worst part is that the bill probably would have helped you too

Obamacare was always Romneycare, the enforced payment of profit bloated insurance company billings, and it was invented by the rockefeller Heritage Foundation.

see

You have a right to your health. You don't have a right to force someone else to take care of your health.

right but should I have the right to the proper medicine I need to survive?
do I have a right to be vaccinated against life threatening diseases?
I might not be able to force the doctor to treat me but the biggest expense in the medical industry isn't the doctor its the treatments, drugs, tests, and supplies

No - why would you just have the right to any of that stuff? Is it yours? Did you make the medicine or buy it from someone? How did you get it? Did you just steal it from someone else?

>why would you just have the right to any of that stuff?
Why would you have a right to anything?

>not a %5,000,000 markup

Something has to cover the research, development, years of clinical trials required by law, etc. But I guess those are all free, right?

You have a right to your life, your liberty and your pursuit of happiness. That is all.

Oh, and if you're not American, you don't even get any of that.

>That is all.
Says who?

true those are very expensive
I can see now why big pharma operates at such a low profit margin
those RnD costs and trials are very expensive

Says our fucking constitution.

I'm very skeptical that a single payer system would ever work in this country.
Personally I think two things need to happen before considering single payer:
Tax simplification, end tax deductions for employers who give their employee health benefits (aka you don't get to keep your health plan).
SEC oversight into potential fraud in hospitals and especially biotech. SEC oversight may also provide valuable information about cash flows and where the cause of high costs comes from, if there is indeed no fraud going on.
If both of these fail, then we can consider having a single payer system.

So it can be changed.

its actually the Declaration of Independence that says those words
close enough though
I am sure you can trust your right wing congressmen when he tells you big pharma isn't totally fucking you in the ass

Sure can.

The bill of rights is technically part of our constitution.

>Sure can.
So really, anything can be a right?

you are right the bill of rights is in fact a part of the constitution

its a good thing that the Declaration of Independence isn't the bill of rights

I'm gonna assume you are baiting because I honestly don't think anyone is this stupid

Obama literally made insurance mandatory, did he not?

damn I guess if you're* poor you should do something about it and it's not everyone else's problem

You're a fucking moron - the constitution and bill of rights DEFINE LEGALLY what the declaration of independence was all about.

Different to it being a right, but yes.

>Old timer patient
>Is there a doctor here who isn't a nigger?

Is it? Isn't that exactly what a positive right is? It's the first one ever in the history of this country, too. Really activates those almonds.

If you are paying monthly for private health insurance, which you almost never take advantage of and you are unable to withdraw after paying, aren't you already indirectly paying for someone else's healthcare costs?

>just stop being poor

lovin this meme

nowhere in the constitution does it say we have a right to life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness

the bill of rights came almost 20 years after those lines were written
and they don't legally define the deceleration of independence because all the DoI did was declare independence...

k 100% bait
I'm out
good night idiots have fun getting sick and dying because you can't afford the medical care and your insurance company won't pay for it

>healthcare becomes a right
>suddenly there's no appointments for months and not enough doctors
Lol

>right to life
So explain how I should die without rights

Yes - insurance itself is a socialistic fraud and is the prime reason why healthcare itself is so expensive in this country. If it cost $50 as opposed to $15,000 to set a broken arm, there would be no need for insurance.

He made it so you get slapped with a $700 fine for not having health insurance. You know, progress.

Too little pay, and a disease can prevent that.

A right is something you're allowed to have. Not required to. A picture of Kim-Jong-Un isn't a right in North Korea, just because everyone has to have one.

Insurance is the union approach
What you want is a dictatorship approach.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_rights
You know nothing.

We should go back to the wild west of health insurance with skyrocketing prices for 4 or 8 years, no covering pre-existing conditions so boomers pay insane premiums or just die off quicker

>the prices went up because of additions and changes to the bill that were demanded by right wing congressmen
This is patently false
Dems passed it without any republican votes.

Thanks for proving me right (pun intended).

Nah, the main issue is immigration
No country in the world has universal healthcare while also having such a large immigration rate, particularly illegal immigration.
It's impossible to balance those expenses when you never know how many people you have to accommodate

You already pay a ton of money to pay for socialized healthcare for the very poor and the elderly, user.
You're already paying for socialized health services at a hugely inflated rate but you're not getting any of the benefits yourself.

Are you fucking retarded? A positive right is something that must be provided to you. A negative right is something that someone else cannot take from you.

You have a right to life - no one is allowed to kill you.

You have a right to liberty - no one can enslave or imprison you for no reason.

You have a right to a pursuit of happiness - you can own property that others cannot simply take from you.

All of these are negative rights. All of the rights defined in the bill of rights are negative rights.

We have never had a positive right in this country until literally Obama. And it's not even a real positive right - they've just taken away your right to NOT have health insurance, which is insane.

He's confusing positive right to mandate
A positive right to healthcare would legitimately mean that if he wants healthcare, he cannot be turned away (this is law already)
He's thinking that means he has a right to be free of paying for said healthcare, which is crazy talk.

>He think the illegal immigration rate is some huge issue because Donald told him it was.
Illegal immigration is at its least important level in decades user. What percentage of the population do you honestly believe these people represent, specifically the ones who don't pay taxes but would collect health benefits.

Because we are comfortable paying more so that only people who want it have it.
It's the moral choice.

>He's thinking that means he has a right to be free of paying for said healthcare, which is crazy talk.
No you moron - I want to retain my right to NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO FUCKING UNDERSTAND.

Pretty much, yes. Being poor when you live in america is fucking retarded, specially when there's so many opportunities on the internet and everything is dirty cheap.

Look, ive lived in a border state for over 30 years
I've known illegals
Ive known adults who are just now learning their parents are illegals.
And my wife works in the healthcare industry
I'm very much aware of how much of an obstacle for single payer illegals are, but that's not even the whole point. Immigration as a whole would have to be slowed drastically.
I personally think we're better served without cutting off our immigration policy, but anyone who thinks we can pay for everyone's healthcare without it is just sticking their head in the sand.

>No you moron - I want to retain my right to NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.
It sounded like that's what the other guys side was

>A right is something you're allowed to have.
Right out of the gate he was incorrect.

>there's so many opportunities on the internet

let's see those examples buddy should i create a youtube channel or something

>should i create a youtube channel or something

I've actually considered this. Make shitty clickbait for kids. The problem is I'd have to live with myself and I'm already prone to depression.

>I live in a state that's disproportionately immigrant
That's why these costs need to be nationalized, user.
>immigration as a whole would have to be slowed drastically
Why? This isn't the case with any other social program including our existing social health programs. You tax immigrants the same as everyone else.

you can't reason with these retards who have had everything handed to them from mommy and daddy. the fascists here will say "le bootstraps meme" where there is no boot to pull from. don't bother

don't forget you're competing with about a million other fucktards. it's not worth it, stop considering it

Check out this virtue signaler

Do you believe in evolution? How about natural selection?

if it could be detached from the current model where you get a few years of extra life maybe in exponentially declining quality. none of it is worth the cost. regenerative medicine is what's needed.

>a system created by humans is natural selection

are you fucking dumb

So you do, and you recognize that society itself is removing natural selection for human beings, correct?

That depends on what you like doing and what are your abilities. Let's pick the example you just posted, youtube channels, you can make one about music, history, fiction, politics, economy, technology, games and so on.

What matters most is how you approach the subject (if you are going to use a comedic tone, a serious one, the use of video editing), how you market it, and how you choose to monetize it.

There are several vacuums on each of those subjects because for a long while entertainment was controlled by big companies.

get to the point moran

like i said it is literally pointless. don't forget the money you need to pay for equipment to be able to be on the other faggots level. and now with le adpocalypse this will not work. any other suggestion wise one

Poor dumb people dying for lack of "healthcare" is the modern form of natural selection. It's either that or eugenics and endless war. Which would you prefer?

>pointless
That's the way you get anywhere in life right?
>don't forget the money you need to pay for equipment to be able to be on the other faggots level
On america? Those equips are dirty cheap.
>adpocalypse
That's not how you monetize your channel.

yeah, wow, as i said. i'm not going to try to reason with your fucked up mind. your parents didn't raise you right, i hope you know that.

>going to stop profiting from it in a socialized model
I hope you really believe a socialized model will throw away corporate profits and the insurance companies won't still be in a position to demand cost from purchasers, I really do. I hope socialized coverage is implemented and you're too stupid to see the relation between socialized college loans and the continuous, ridiculous tuition raises that happen every year. I hope you're so fucking dumb that you won't be cognizant of the price fixing that occurs when a cost is guaranteed to be payed back.

tl;dr you're fucking stupid

I'm guessing by your reply that you are in the poor and/or dumb category. Sorry user.

The problem isn't healthcare you stupid fucks. The problem is the insurance middle man who serves absolutely no productive purpose. It has been proven to save money around the world to cut out the middle man.

They are too dumb to understand (((insurance))).

and it would make you feel better if your assumption was correct, wouldn't it? that's called sociopathy. time to go to the psychiatrist user