Mgtow

Is mgtow the deathknell of a dying civilisation?

They just seem like pathetic excuses for men who are afraid of growing up and taking responsibility.

What do you think Sup Forums? A lot of you advocate for the preservation of western society but to do this we need women and marriage.

So if you are a mgtow also you are part of the problem.

I don't know and have no opinion

Real men take care of their family and provide to them.

Being MGTOW is fucking glorious.

I was like 8 when I said I'd never get married, this was after my parents divorce. It didn't help that we moved to a complex full of single mothers, so every kid I grew up with knew marriage is a scam.
Free ride is over ladies, deal with it.

>They just seem like pathetic excuses for men who are afraid of growing up and taking responsibility.

Kek. Men don't owe you shit princess. You obviously don't know shit about MGTOW besides what you deluded yourself into believing.

Jewish divide and conquer to use the social and legal ramifications of (((feminism))) to encourage white men to abandon the traditional family and antagonize women as a lifestyle and hobby instead, while encouraging other men to do the same.

Have fun dying alone my dude.

If you don't want a family then you are a waste of life tbqh.

This is what I'm thinking.

Sadly it seems to work. I mean the amount of vitriol coming from those "red pilled" is disgusting. western civilisation was not based on hating women.

Every man dies alone. I've seen married male relatives die in hospital with shrew wives and ungrateful kids pacing around waiting for the money.

GOOD GOY, keep getting married to feed the (((divorce industry)))

>They just seem like pathetic excuses for men who are afraid of growing up and taking responsibility.

It's a sign of a dying civilization, but it's not because "men refuse to grow up", quite the opposite already. They are mature enough to go against peer pressure and decide that they personally do not like the deal that is being offered to them with the clear expectation that they have no other way but to accept it.

Nobody is afraid of anything. There's just not enough profit in this business to warrant such an investment, so to speak.
You don't need to hate women to notice marriage is a shitty deal.

Could be. We don't know. We've never been here before. Humanity has never had women deciding the course for civilization before. We've never had technology like this before.

We could be heading for history's first female tyranny.

I dont see why anyone other than roasties would hate it.

Dudes trying to improve themselves instead of orbiting roasties is a great thing.

Once you're fit, financially stable and an interesting person get with a qt and make babies

Artificial Wombs mean I can have kids without worrying about divorce. No women needed. I'll wait the 5-10 years for it to be an option. Marriage is too big of a liability.

sad but yet so hilarious.

Then why is it that most mgtow you see are manchildren playing video games all day?

You don't see successful mgtow. Ever.

I think it's largely men with low emotional maturity who can't deal with relationships or women.

I could be wrong but I suspect I'm not.

Just marry a decent girl. I'm getting married next year. We dated four years. She wants kids. It's white. Not a degenerate or slut. Doctorate degree and makes 6 figures. The secret to this? I am the same. If you want a quality woman , be a quality guy and make good choices. I had many opportunities to date sluts and degenerates but chose her for her decent - she would make a good mother.

And spare me the divorce and child support meme. Once again this happens if poor decisions

>Humanity has never had women deciding the course for civilization befor-

Probably because the successful people who decided that they don't like the marriage deal don't feel the desire to talk about it online, they have better things to do.

I thought you were talking about the general sentiment behind it and not just the self-help circlejerks they formed online.

This desu.

I'm planning to marry my gf next year.

Congrats, I hope you are happy together

>They just seem like pathetic excuses for men who are afraid of growing up and taking responsibility.
you know that they're getting a raw deal and yet you still just expect them to "man up" work two shitty jobs with no upwards mobility, marry a slut and raise tyrone's kids for him while also being on edge as he could be served divorce papers at anytime and know that in all likelyhood he'll be financially destroyed by it. what the fuck is your problem?

>You don't see successful mgtow. Ever.

You can't tell anyone you're MGTOW if you have any type of career.

MGTOW is pretty much the most offensive thing to modern day progressive feminist society.

There's tons of successful guys not interested in marriage, relationships, cohabitation or reproduction.

Men figured out that women aren't worth the risks and don't provide any rewards.

>living a life without purpose is great
good goy

Depends on what extent of MGTOW you're referring to. If you're swearing off women completely, that's just a sad excuse for getting to keep up your bad instant gratification lifestyle without having to admit that it doesn't matter whether or not you want to be with women because they don't want to have anything to do with you.

However, just rejecting marriage and cohabitation is fine, and I see some refer to that as MGTOW, but I don't think it is, really. It's just a reasonable man looking out for himself above others, as all people should.

>what the fuck is your problem?

They're a woman.

>feeding the feminist family courts and (((divorce lawyers)))

Good goy, keep getting married.

You only have yourself to blame if you get into that situation mate.

the mass population and breeding is the real problem.
Civilized western people understand that and thats why we dont breed like locusts.

On the other hand, when you look at the barbars and chinks... you see why they have problems.

Sadly, lots of people think that breeding alot is something that saves the world.

That's why men aren't getting married.

You finally figured it out.

In the USA, by far the number one and two political issues for women are the right to kill their children for convenience and the right for niggers and Mexicans to be safe from the raycis police
I'll have nothing to do with women unless they prove otherwise

>just marry a decent girl
this is basically like saying "just don't be poor dude!"
I suspected as much

>Sadly, lots of people think that breeding alot is something that saves the world.

Most people simply don't care because they don't think about shit like this.

Can you point me to some literature in this regard? I've recently read a book on roman historiography and degeneracy is pretty much recurrent in their work - mainly Cato -, but they never mention women, and since this is a recurring topic on Sup Forums, I'd like o have a more informed view.

>not knowing how to keep a family and women happy.

It's really simple mate. All you need to do is this: be assertive and take control of the family, work to provide, and be caring to your wife.

Do this and you won't get devorced

What's your definition of success? Obviously removing women from the picture because this hypothetical successful MGTOW wouldn't be dealing with that.

Sure mister Schlomo, afraid you'll miss out on divorce shekels and laughing at alimony slaves?

Also, I'm not MGTOW, I have a girlfriend, but I'm definitely not falling for the alimony trap.

sounds to me like losers trying to justify being losers

>the girl I'm marrying is decent
No shit, every guy thinks his fiancee is decent. Otherwise he wouldn't be marrying her. Nobody says "the girl I'm marrying is a total bitch and a massive slut". People change in unforeseen ways, that's why divorce exists in the first place. Nobody marries knowing that they will be divorced.

The whole "be a real man" argument misses the point entirely. Any relationship can become sour for a number of reasons. I'm not MGTOW but the anti-MGTOW people make the worst arguments

John Dalton

>They just seem like pathetic excuses for men

Exactly what I picture, some cringy/awkward guys mad at all women cos one or two said no to them. Bit like reddits redpill.

>just be perfect while she offers nothing and hope that no one who's even more perfect than you ever shows any interest in her

That's exactly why those people decide that it's a shit deal and they don't want marriage.

Pretty hilarious coming from you given that Israeli women are some of the most entitled imaginable.

>Do this and you won't get devorced

Haha. Back to the drawing board and more research for you.

Success is measured by how much you respect yourself and how much power/money/influence you have.

Generally success starts by respecting yourself and those around you.
Faster you do this you can work of getting power/influence/money

>Israeli women are some of the most entitled imaginable.

How so?

when society can no longer give you what you need

and only what you want

when in times of crisis you start looking else where

>he's butthurt why trad submissive waifus don't want manchildren
lol you deserve do be purged from the gene pool anyway

>They just seem like pathetic excuses for men who are afraid of growing up and taking responsibility.
>growing up and taking responsibility.
Blue haired whale detected.

Y-yes mgtow is for losers

...

>Reddit Redpill: Oh, I've been rejected all my life because what society taught me is the exact opposite of how human sexuality works, so let's learn based on biology and evolutionary psychology and improve myself so that I can get laid

>MGTOW: I've been rejected all my life and I can't admit to myself that I'm not god's gift to women in my current state so I'm going to pretend I'm not interested in sex anymore

Yeah, no, there's no difference there.

The first half of this post is the most important part.

Obviously you do this for a woman worth your time.

throwing up your hands and going "not getting married!! The juden are put to get me!" Is the most paranoid and pathetic thing you can do

Are you married?

If you think the courts for men are bad here, in Israel they are far worse.

>REEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCKING GET MARRIED AND HAVE KIDS LIKE ME YOU SELFISH CUNTS!!!!

It never ceases to amaze me just how triggered some people get simply because I chose not to fall into the marriage trap.

Misery loves company I guess.

Could you give me an example or some more details please?

I unironically believe the world will end within my lifetime and don't feel that reproducing is a wise decision.

Going to be, yes.

Believe it or not I don't hate mgtow. I simply think they live a sad existence.
Meeting the right woman and sharing your life with them is the best experience you can have.

It's much better than the shallow and materialistic mgtow worldview

>grow up and take responsibility

Marriage is a two-party arrangement. You're retarded if you think that the success of the marriage is entirely in the man's control. Both parties need to work hard and participate in the relationship to make it prosperous and healthy. If the woman isn't willing to do her fair share of maintenance, the marriage is doomed, regardless of what the man does or says.

>Going to be, yes.
That means you aren't married.

>Just marry a decent girl.
This is the new
>just b urself

This is feminism for man, they destroyed the role of women in society and mgtow is going to destroy the role of men, gg.

No, you are ignoring a very important point here. All your arguments assume that the man in question is capable of becoming prime marriage material.
But lets face reality, a lot of people don't look that great and also aren't very smart. No matter how hard they try, it is unlikely that they'll be able to be the best option for their wife around.

Luckily I and my direct family didn't have to deal with any of that shit, but I have seen it in my circle of friends more than once.
>husband looks okayish
>managed to get a decent income for what he's capable of, is providing his wife with a life that's alright and the best he can give her

>other schmuck who simply outclasses him comes along
>fucks his wife a couple of times
>she now lives in the delusion that she can totally have him and destroys the marriage over it

When that shit isn't socially shamed anymore, the chances for these people to have a stable marriage just decrease too much so they decide that for them personally, it isn't worth it.


I thought Sup Forums was aware of the fact that people are not equal and that trying hard doesn't mean you'll eventually succeed, but apparently not.

I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not asking how to achieve success and I especially don't care about these arbitrary abstractions you've come up with. What does "power" or "influence" mean to your average man? Like, just a 45 yr old executive businessman who has these connections all over the city he can call on to do favors? That seems a bit out there and I don't really think it's necessary to be considered successful.
Basically I'm saying if I know a guy who has a decent job, seems like a good person, speaks 3 languages, dresses nicely, all that shit. Where's the line? At what point can you look at someone and say, "yeah they look like they've got their shit together"?

Get married. Have kid. Live with the fact that you were never the alpha male in any woman's eyes, that she's just with you because you're the stable backup plan, that everything society taught you growing up - be kind to others, be a productive member of society, etc etc - has made you into the piece of mediocrity you are today.

>If the woman isn't willing to do her fair share of maintenance, the marriage is doomed, regardless of what the man does or says.

true

I thought that was a given.

Obviously you don't just feed into some vapid whores princess complex. You find a good women who wants a family and likes traditional values.

they do exist they are just not going to show interest in mgtow

Chin looks kinda different, Im not sold

Fair enough, can't say I've really been there, just from a glimpse seemed like rejected women haters.

I was exactly where you were, 3 years ago.

I had a fiance lined up. I was working a normal amount of hours while still providing like a champ.

She was the 'smalltown churchgoing girl with a traditional, intact family' that Sup Forums likes to talk about.

She cheated on me before we got married.

I know you won't listen to me, but your life is about to be totally fucked due to marriage. All women are the same, all women will use you for all they can get.

You were warned.

>my wife is a good woman who wants a family and likes traditional values

...said every man who got married ever

They're retarded. But "Women going own way" are no better.

>dude enter the lion's den
>You just need to choose the RIGHT lion's den
>if you get mauled it is your fault
>whay do you mean you won't enter any lion's den you fucking manbaby?

Quick rundown and link to vid

mgtow basically means that you shit on your countrys birthrate and on the traditional family

yes mgtow are signs of the end times

without family theres no civilization

The fate of empires by John Glubb

Personally, I don't find Marriage to be all that great. If I get involved in a relationship and I get bored of it, then I'd rather be able to leave.

I don't get why in Western Societies, we're expected to get married and have a child.

I'm happier and wealthier without having some dumb bitch mooch off of me and use me for money.

So is someone who gets locked into starting a family or someone who doesn't fall for that bs the smarter person?

I understand this.

But you should always strive to be the best you can be at all times.

Not everybody is capable of being the absolute best but that's no reason to just give up on the fundamental pillar of society, marriage.

The way I see it is you have 2 choices.

1) continue living the lifestyle of a teenage boy who is only concerned with his personal wellbeing

Or

2) you risk all of that for the chance of true happiness and fulfilment and also creating the next generation of people.

I don't blame anyone for picking 1. It's easier and safer but in my opinion it's the saddest one.

Real men know how to reign in a woman and raise her to his own standards. Cucks chose (((MGTOW))).

Ever notice how no niggers or mudshits fall for (((MGTOW)))? Really makes you think....

Hate to break it to you, but my country and the traditional family went to shit a long time ago

the most amazing thing is that basically every man on earth above a certain age will tell you "they are all the same"

and yet everyone still believes that it's wrong and the fault must have been with them.

they weren't wrong, that's why we had social rules in place that (mostly) prevented this exact kind of stuff for centuries.
but somehow nowadays everyone seems to think that people from the past were all stupid, had no common sense and did shit for no reason at all rather than because they learned from experience

probably because of the increased literacy rates. makes people think that their intellect outstrips that of anyone from the past by orders of magnitude

>sweden
>nation where they want to abolish cars because cars are patriarchy
>talking about reigning in women

wew fucking lad

Wait, isn't your country cucked hard by immigrants?

It's all subjective isn't it?

For example if you are the manager of a store then you are successful, you have all the things I listed.

You don't need some unattainable dream job to have success.

People assume women just want the top men, and to an extent this is true as it is for both genders.

But those dreams die quickly and we realise what's actually attainable.

I agree that if enough men don't interact and reproduce with women it's going to be a problem. However, we will never get another June Clever.

>I don't get why in Western Societies, we're expected to get married and have a child.

Because it's what enables these societies to even exist in this form and shape.
If you are single, you don't need to put much effort in it. Even working half time is already sufficient unless you are a burger flipper.
Only when you are married, and even more when you have a child, does it become "necessary" to give it your best because suddenly there's no "good enough" cap anymore, more money will always be an improvement (at least for the range that is accessible to the average man, obviously at some point it would cap again)

There are few time less worthy women than there are men who want these women. You will not have a shortage of men even if half go mgtow, it doesnt harms birthrates. It only harms (((those))) who profit from men slaving their asses off in hope to satisfy some greedy slag.

Yes it's all the mens fault society goes to shit not giving women more rights then men.

No offensive but personal anecdotes mean very little.

I'm still going to marry her and give it a go. Even if it fails I'm willing to try.

>professional woman with doctorate
>quality
Top lel m8

All men who get fucked over by women in relationships asked for it. They saw the signs on the first date and decided 'some' shitty behavior is a reasonable trade off for steady puss. MGTOW should be renamed Men Accepting Shitty Behavior and Considering it Normal.

Like I said, you were warned.

>Even working half time is already sufficient unless you are a burger flipper.

Stop right there Jihadi scum... Stop right there...

You can't work less than 30 hours a week and expect to be able to have your own place, let alone raise a family.

Tell me more about your life in Afghanistan as a Taxi driver.

A doctorate in what though?

Real men have no need for modern women who have rejected their roles. The more so called equality woman get the more unhappy cunts they will become. It's not natural for woman to be the dominate one in a relationship.

>A lot of you advocate for the preservation of western society but to do this we need women and marriage.
I enjoy shitposting about this, but I have no interest in preservation of a society that did this to themselves. I'm just here for the decline.

For a lot of them, option 2 is so far out of reach that it might as well not exist at all.

You really think that if you gave them the choice between living a miserable, mediocre-at-best life and a life of happiness, they'd pick the first if they thought that option 2 does actually exist for them?

Understandable, there's a thing commonly referred to as the anger phase, which is what people go through initially when they realize things aren't how they've been taught they are. There's a problem with people getting stuck there and there's a problem with people just reading the subreddit, books and articles forever and ever as mental masturbation rather than actually improving themselves. But the main idea is about self-improvement and learning how to get women, or rather, how to get a happy, successful life where popularity with women is pretty much an inevitable side effect.

That being said, they do argue against marriage, living together or growing too attached to a specific woman, because of a few reasons:
1. It is in her instinct to upgrade if a better option than you comes along, which is likely to happen eventually unless you literally are the most perfect man in the world
2. Letting yourself go, relaxing and not being your usual confident, passionate, active self will make her less attracted to you and it's almost impossible to keep that up at all times. You're better off living without women (or other people period for that matter), because your home should be your sanctuary, the one place where you can relax, focus on yourself and forget about the rest of the world.

So basically, no, the Redpill people, after the initial shock, aren't misogynistic and do not hate women. But they do point out some pretty glaring differences between the men and women, which is what have earned them the ire of the largely feminist mainstream media.