Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?

Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?

Other urls found in this thread:

deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/news/artikel/2017/06/08/krankenkassen-weiterhin
youtu.be/XqS2g5WlMgM
dailycaller.com/2015/10/16/heres-the-cost-of-war-for-each-major-conflict-in-americas-239-year-history/
time.com/4858491/zika-vaccine-birth-defects/
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243938/Ex-hedge-funder-32-hated-man-internet-defends-jacking-prices-AIDS-medication-5500.html
nationalpost.com/g00/news/canada/this-is-why-canada-has-the-second-highest-medication-costs-in-the-world/wcm/75f10541-c97b-41c3-a581-281912fead71?i10c.referrer=https://www.google.ca/
fortune.com/2014/09/24/health-insurance-invest-startups/
ctvnews.ca/health/true-cost-of-health-care-to-average-family-is-11k-per-year-report-1.2525114
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Gimme that slime, IDC. I want it, I need it, I'm too useless to get it. Give. Me. Sum. Gibs..

Like, old people and stuff.

Drugs, equipment and wages would probably be cheaper if it profit wasn't a factor.

They don't consider it at all, or they offer vague solutions that wouldn't pass the simplest back-of-envelope calculation, like "tax the rich".

These are r-strategists, OP. All they know is free resources.

Dude they have no attention span. The chemicals in the food and water are neuro toxins and the media they watch makes it nearly impossible to be rational.

PAY

Dude, taxes lmao. One the 1% pay their fair share

"The government"

They think that the government is just some infinite money machine, they have no idea that when the government funds something it means you're funding it.

>Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?
The irony is that if the left didn't flood our country with immigrants we probably would be able to pay for healthcare. But as it stands even California can't do it, it double their fucking budget to try and pull that off.

Leaf this isn't fucking star trek. Goods and services require compensation for the economy to work.

They think that money = wealth. That if they just takes millions of dollars of invested money from the top and spend it, that will some how fix everything.
It will be funny when GM, Ford, Apple and all these other companies are forced to increase prices and lay off staff because of massive taxation on investments.

Where do you clowns think tax breaks for the rich comes from? Same place; borrowing, tax raises or cutting in other areas.

The difference is when people have healthcare it actually helps the economy.

Taxes.

They don't contribute anything, because "Muh Government" is evil. They just want healthcare, they don't actually want to work.
Or pay taxes
Or.. volunteer, jesus christ I couldn't imagine.

From taxes. Healthy people can work harder and longer. It's some kind of investment if the corruption and exploitation will be regulated to a minimum.

Give me my nummy, I want it so yummy.

GOOD - then perhaps it'll teach these fuckers that crime and tax evasion whilst your waffling on about the terrible state of the world and homelessness all over your sidewalk reaches epic proportions whilst they get off paying a pitance to a load of cheap foreign labor so some kids hand can bleed putting together there shiny toy.

(((you)))

I don't think they understand that med school and law school are essentially trade schools and somehow equate going to school until 30 for a masters in History is the same as going for a PhD in Pediatrics.
>go to school for 5 years to learn how to pipe a toilet
>go to school for idk years to pipe a heart
Is not the same as
>go to school for 8 years to read some books

Don't say taxes to American's, friendo. Even though they pay more for health insurance than they would if they just got taxed for national healthcare instead.

"basic" healthcare shouldn't BE expensive.
All you need is an improved app to replace a general practitioner, and most drugs should be a lot cheaper than government subsidies and corporate protectionism allows them to be. You don't need a hospital bed for most things. An ambulance ride shouldn't realistically cost 5000 dollars.

> Where do the people who want free basic police coverage think that money is going to come from?
> Where do the people who want free basic fire departments think that money is going to come from?
> Where do the people who want free basic roads and parks think that money is going to come from?
> Where do the people who want free basic national defense think that money is going to come from?

And where do you think the wealth of the rich comes from?
The banks (decreases credit risk by storing wealth)
Interest rates (banks not making money if there is less money stored)
Investments (Stored in major companies, like Walmart, Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc.. that do a lot of the major hiring)
Spending (Rich people buy stuff)
Property (Rich own property, manage and maintain it. If people without wealth buy property, they can't afford to maintain it)

Wealth is necessary for a society to function. You can't borrow (you SHOULDN'T borrow, at least) money without some source of wealth in the background.

White leftists are too stupid to realize the money comes from their fellow whites that aren't retarded fuckups, and that their pet shitskin are too large of a drain on society for the country to afford all their B's communism.

See California and their failure to implement single payer.

Leftist whites are mentally ill and shitskins are a different subspecies of human entirely.

Pets. Pay for my pets, too.

Do you think that money will eliminate these problems?

No. Money isn't wealth, like I said. You can give everyone a million dollars, and nothing will change. The only reason the 1% seem to have so much money, and everyone else seems poor, is that the dollar has lost a lot of value as a currency of trade.
If you just take all the invested money and drop it to the bottom, the majority of it will be wasted on stupid shit (like drugs, alcohol, trinkets from China, consumer goods that have no resale or investment value) and the prices of real goods will soar because of the increase in money.

Adding tons of money into the system isn't going to eliminate poverty. Wealth isn't something you can just go out and spend. Being wealthy doesn't mean the rich have a lot of spending money, they are simply invested. If you took the investments away and gave them to the Government, we wouldn't be any richer. Everything would be the same, and we'd continue to jump into debt.

The fact is, society as it is now costs more to run then it's worth. If we don't cut back on Government spending and consumers lending, we'll go bankrupt really soon.

Why do private healthcare companies in germany have more money than ever before?
Do your homework.

*public healthcare comapnies

Maybe it's because Germany doesn't pay for it's national defense.
So on top of America paying for it's own healthcare, they also pay for Europe's national defense and most of of Nato.

Socialism works great when you are Welfare from the US.

See . Stop enabling the r-strategists who innately believe that resources are free.

deutsche-apotheker-zeitung.de/news/artikel/2017/06/08/krankenkassen-weiterhin
>first quarter of the year
>620 million Euro surplus
>even with refugees

Universal medicine would produce veterinary care for tax cattle. It's optimized, cheap, and allergic to disruptive innovation. Men deserve to live forever. It will only happen if we are allowed to allocate our resources in accordance with our wills - NOT the will of some closed-off narcissistic bureaucrat more concerned with protecting their job than advancing the public weal.

Drugs and equipment develop faster in the US than in all other nations combined, and it's precisely because of the profit motive that they do it.

By the way, treatment would be cheaper in the US if two things changed:
1. People paid directly for their care.
2. Countries which import American drugs stopped using their market access as negotiation leverage.

Here in the UK we can't get access to many newer cancer drugs because our government bars their importation until our NHS can buy them at rip-off prices.

Eventually the drug companies cave, and Americans are stuck with the bill for all the R&D.

Ideally it would come from doctors forced to give free healthcare to the poor in exchange for forgiveness of medical school debt.

We will have bacta tanks and medical droids soon though so that shouldn't be necessary.

This. Regardless of all factors, wealth inequality, corruption, war, etc the only thing that reduces poverty and increases quality of life for everyone is increased gdp. More stuff means more stuff for everyone. Money is secondary. The problem is the current system has built in inefficiencies, particularly in finance, that prevent people from working or doing work that is productive (ie, increases gdp).

The jews youtu.be/XqS2g5WlMgM

people who work

>in exchange for forgiveness of medical school debt.
So you want to deny mr. Noseberg his interest? What a nazi, literally Hitler, i cant even.

From the trillion+ dollars we save by switching to an NHS-style system?

Wait OP, you didn't go and make a snarky post like that without having actually looked at healthcare costs, did you? Because that would be gay as fuck and pathetic...

If the economy was truly healthy, people wouldn't be bitching so much about the 1% and the necessity of some form of socialism/social welfare.

This desire for Universal Health and increasing minimum wage doesn't come from fellow man's desire to improve the lives of the poor, it comes from the average man's desire to get back to the statues quo their parents lived in.

The US Government is $19 trillion dollars in debt just trying to maintain the "status quo", well it talks about how the Economy is recovering.

If people try to force socialism on an indebted society, it's going to be a disaster. Our debts won't be written off, they'll come out of the sales taxes, the food prices, the gas prices, the rent.. everywhere banks are invested.

>Ideally it would come from doctors forced to give free healthcare to the poor in exchange for forgiveness of medical school debt.
That would fuck incentives beyond repair.

The cost of medical school would skyrocket, the number of "poor" would skyrocket, doctors would leave the US.

What you just proposed is the most retarded thing I have heard an American say about healthcare.

Evil White men of course

The rich evil corporations that will pay extra taxes and totally not pass the cost down to consumers. They will also cry when small local businesses collapse and now they are forced to shop at Evil Corp. They'll also complain when the supply of Doctors dwindles and they have to wait a long time to get the free service they are clearly entitled to.

It would be nice if they only wanted basic care. Like if someone broke their arm. What they really want is free care for all problems like cancer or a brain deformation. The doctors should have a say and at some time everything that can be done, maybe shouldn't be done. Even that is a bad way of saying it because it is just more money for the doctors to do everything!!

Slaves. The democrats wanted slaves to pick their cotton in the past and today they want slaves to provide medical care.

this, you dumb burgers spend more than any country for healthcare and have the worst.

just like your shit tier internet

This. Their answer to everything is slavery. It's immoral.

What needs to happen is dismantling the big pharma. Basic healthcare is extremely cheap. ((Companies)) buying patents for drugs for pennies and then selling shit like epipens for $600 with zero research or effort is the real problem. If you socialize health care, its fine that everyone gets treatment, but the amount of bullshit, cheating, lying, stealing, fraud and big pharma fucking you over that happens is insane.

>From the trillion+ dollars we save by switching to an NHS-style system?
The savings you envision will never materialise.

>Wait OP, you didn't go and make a snarky post like that without having actually looked at healthcare costs, did you?
You have no idea how much figures on healthcare spending are muddled with. Here in the UK, our NHS lobbies the government to prevent the approval of American drugs until the drug company sells at well under market value.

An NHS in the US would completely kill innovation, and force drug development into the public sector.

of course, also if unicorns rode rainbows there would be no war and poverty in the world.

Ambulance ride is not $5K, the day in the good hospital is $10K. It has nothing to do with doctors, doctors don't get that money, it's the racket. The current system is mostly based on fraud, that's why the costs are out of control and exponentially growing. Most Americans think muh doctors, but doctors are not getting most of that money. It's insurance companies, and fraud. In the end this system will collapse and we will go government based healthcare, which given US government's record will be worst than NK healthcare. Most burgers don't understand that. Our defense spending is the same shit.

Just print more dumbass

That's because those dumb burgers make all the drugs and equipment that you deadbeat frogs use.

And you deadbeat frogs refuse to pay for them properly, forcing American citizens to pick up YOUR bill.

The majority of national healthcare countries do that.

from the rich

If you kicked out the spics and the niggers, you could not only afford both universal health care and free education, but the entire deficit would disappear.

money is a fiction.

Taxes. If it works here, why not over there?

51% of all tax dollars come from Americans making over 300k a years. Seems like its the other side thats not paying its fair share to me.

Now this right here is the real answer. We pay insane prices in america because other nations don't pay the actual cost of the drug or service.

Complete strangers who won't hold them accountable.

>Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?

white taxpayers

People who don't understand how little wealth there is in the world right now.

The entire planet earth is worth about $5 Quadrillion USD

If you liquidized EVERY ASSET IN THE WORLD INTO GOLD (and I mean through magic, 100% conversion of all non-gold things on earth made into their retail value in gold), and evenly divided it between the entire population of the world, we'd all get ONE 12kg gold bar.

That's it.

That's your share of all the wealth in the world.
Less than $500,000.

You'd have no planet, but at least you'd have your gold bar.

Where do you think the money for endless wars comes from?

>Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?
The cost savings of universal care.

The USA pays just a bit under double what Canada pays. While delivering only partial care (even with the ACA) to most people.

The outcomes for almost all life threatening illnesses are without single digit percentage points, while life expectancy is slightly higher in Canada.

It's the economy of scale and the economy of coverage rather than the economy of billing. In the state of New Hampshire their are more healthcare administrators than the nation of Canada while having about 1/32th the population.

The US private system is 32 times less efficient that government run healthcare in that metric.

~

Not only is Canada better at delivering healthcare per dollar spent that transfers over to businesses that don't need to spend as much on expensive healthcare packages for employees, making those businesses more efficient.

You would also kill investment, and stop researching new drugs, so you'll have to start a new research tax
But then you'll need researchers, so you'll have to create a new pay wage tax
Then they'll need a union, so you'll have to tax that...

Why not just allow competition and let the prices drop naturally?

only /fit/ people should receive government subsidized healthcare

The same place the rest of it comes from, thin air! Deficits don't matter, go back to work goy.

dailycaller.com/2015/10/16/heres-the-cost-of-war-for-each-major-conflict-in-americas-239-year-history/

$2 Trillion is the total cost of every war in America since WW2.

Current US debt is over 19 Trillion.

Try again.

The taxes that I pay?

white people

>The same place the rest of it comes from, thin air! Deficits don't matter, go back to work goy.

This x 1,000,000

Democracy is nothing more than a prole vacation, but it'll be fun to watch all the people who believed they could administer an unsustainable standard of health care to entire populations without cost die painfully from easily-treatable conditions after the total economic and social collapse

Obamacare made things more expensive, not less.

Wars aren't that expensive.

Because they spend more on advertising than on research.

Also almost all our medical advances happened between 1920 and 1970. What's happened between 1970 and today is about 1/8th what happened before while costing about 134 times as much (as reported by costs on the balance sheets of public companies)

Uhhhh

>Obamacare made things more expensive, not less.
Yes. Because ACA was corporate welfare. Not UHC, or NHC.

It's stolen from future generations.

From white people. Obama promoted an indirect way for nigger to rob white folks.

yeah...
time.com/4858491/zika-vaccine-birth-defects/

from the government duh

You think they invested and research in this shit? Look up how many drugs that were being sold to the public and saving lives at reasonable prices and then were bought by huge companies and had the cost increased by thousands of percent.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3243938/Ex-hedge-funder-32-hated-man-internet-defends-jacking-prices-AIDS-medication-5500.html

This should be illegal. The people involved should be injected with AIDS and locked up without treatment knowing they will die a slow agonizing death. This is not fair competition. This is what I'm talking about.

nationalpost.com/g00/news/canada/this-is-why-canada-has-the-second-highest-medication-costs-in-the-world/wcm/75f10541-c97b-41c3-a581-281912fead71?i10c.referrer=https://www.google.ca/

Epipen is $600 in America, yet its $120 in Canada. It's because they are getting fucked by pharmaceutical giants that cannot be regulated because "that would cause them to stop trying to save lives and research would end if you dont let them make billions and trillions of dollars". Its bullshit. Its a lie. They are buying OLD patents and current drugs that are cheap and have been researched and jacking the price up. These people are evil and need to die.

And what are all the insurance companies going to do?
Fold?
What about their investments and debt? You would destroy the economy overnight by putting health insurance companies out of business.
Not to mention the US tax system couldn't fund the insurance system without managing healthcare prices, which means you end up in a Canada situation, where Doctors are over worked, under paid and no one wants to be a doctor anymore.
Private clinics and private hospitals would be a God send in Canada. If the poor want socialism, let them pay for it.

>pharmaceutical giants

And what are you going to do? Dismantel giant pharma companies, kill regulation, prevent them from making money and turn them into slave labour?

AIDs treatment doesn't cure aids. It's just a treatment. You still have AIDs. I don't want to pay for people have unprotected anal sex. If you want to take risks, understand the consequences.

Idk OR care because I work for a fortune 500 company and they hired me on as 6 month contractor- (with the chance of future employment). They have a habit of stringing people along for years before actually hiring them. Just like how "successful" guys sometimes do to girls. Both are a shitty practice making the world a worse place everyone.

I take on ALL OF THE RISKS for 48K a year AND MOST OF THAT IS ALREADY TAXED!

So fuck you, PAY ME! I don't care anymore because nothing makes sense anymore. I know what's going to happen to me and my parents and everyone in the long run, so fuck it!

I'm living everyday to fullest and getting ready to kick ass and get revenge.

In my short 5 plus years of working for various companies and employers government engineering firms provide the best IRO for their employees. So

>Where do the people who want free basic healthcare think that money is going to come from?
Out of thin air.

Seriously.

I asked them.

>"We'll just print more money."

>And what are all the insurance companies going to do?
>Fold?
Give up their medical coverage branches and focus on other insurable sectors.

>What about their investments and debt? You would destroy the economy overnight by putting health insurance companies out of business.
Their investments don't go anywhere. They just lose a portion of their potential income streams.

All those premiums you pay for insurance? They are all used directly for investing. The money they use for policy payouts comes from the return on their investments.

If you cut all healthcare premiums and all healthcare payouts the insurance companies would lose no profit and would simply grow slightly slower.


>Not to mention the US tax system couldn't fund the insurance system without managing healthcare prices, which means you end up in a Canada situation, where Doctors are over worked, under paid and no one wants to be a doctor anymore.
Doctors are overworked and underpaid in the US. Everyone in the world is overworked and underpaid because that's how you get easy efficiencies out of workers and businesses.

>Private clinics and private hospitals would be a God send in Canada. If the poor want socialism, let them pay for it.
If the wealthy want workers they can pay for it.

>And what are you going to do?
Offer them a deal to stay in business under different regulations or to close down their operations and see how much money they can make doing something else.

>Give up their medical coverage branches and focus on other insurable sectors.
You understand there is consierable investment there?
That money isn't just sitting in a bank, it's wealth. It's spread out over the economy.

The investments die, because there's no guaranteed income anymore, there's no interest rates. It destroys the financial sectors health insurance is invested in.
fortune.com/2014/09/24/health-insurance-invest-startups/

"Money" isn't wealth.

>Doctors are overworked and underpaid in the US. Everyone in the world is overworked and underpaid because that's how you get easy efficiencies out of workers and businesses.

So let's make more inventive to hire doctors?
>If the wealthy want workers they can pay for it.
If the poor want healthcare, they can work.

Again, closing the insurance industry doesn't just hurt the insurance industry. All of that money is invested, it's a huge part of the financial sector.

Universal Healthcare saving money is a joke. It costs more money because there is no incentive not to use it.
ctvnews.ca/health/true-cost-of-health-care-to-average-family-is-11k-per-year-report-1.2525114

One of the big issues in the USA is the lack of knowing the price. Absolutely nobody knows what a gallon bladder removal will cost until after the fact.

And I get each case is different but they could start with: the doctor charges this, the OR costs this, these are the typical drugs, and a two night's stay is that. It just doesn't exist. I have seen some places post like insane "averages" for knee surgery or shit that have no logic in getting to that price.

Imagine if you went into an Apple store and pointed at a laptop asking the price. They have no clue and tell a bill will be sent later that you must pay. They'd not sell much I imagine.

Notable
> The report also found that the cost of health care is on the rise, increasing 1.6 times faster than the average income.

1.6% interest in investment from an insurance company is reasonable, a private company could technically sustain itself by investing additional income to offset unexpected price increases.

On the other hand, a universal system, like Canada, would get demolished if a new Aid's-like disease rapidly spread across the country. We would just go further and further into debt.

>You understand there is consierable investment there?
Yeah but none of it goes away if the premiums from insurance stop.
They have already made those investments.

>That money isn't just sitting in a bank, it's wealth. It's spread out over the economy.
It's invested all over the economy. Some of it is in banks or rather as loans to banks. Some is stocks. Some property. Some direct partnerships.

>The investments die, because there's no guaranteed income anymore, there's no interest rates. It destroys the financial sectors health insurance is invested in.
No it doesn't because health insurance investment directly competes with all other insurance investments. This just removes a small portion of the insurance companies stream of investment money. It also removes a small portion of their insurance liabilities, and cuts all the administration costs.

>"Money" isn't wealth.
Money isn't the only form of wealth, but it is wealth.

>So let's make more inventive to hire doctors?
The doctor's in the US operate under a guild practice to keep membership low and wages high. The AMA creates the high work load with limited manpower on purpose.

>If the poor want healthcare, they can work.
They do by working and supporting the economy; buying and consuming, working and earning.

It comes from taxes and no it isn't free. But if you think about it, you actually should have at least 500% higher salary, since that's how much rich people stolen money, so yes, we could say it's free, but not free for rich people.

From implementing a tax bracket system into wall street.

>All of that money is invested, it's a huge part of the financial sector.

And none of that investment is lost, removed or ended.

>Universal Healthcare saving money is a joke. It costs more money because there is no incentive not to use it.
It's a fact. As a percent of GDP Canada spends just a bit under half as much as the USA. Yet delivers care that's almost identical in terms of outcomes.

Also their are huge savings from preventative care that are not realized in the USA to the degree they are in UHC systems. In the US system it's in the interest of healthcare providers to have people get sick with highly profitable illnesses. In UHC the exact reverse is true.

Well, since the government doesn't have a job to earn the money it spends, they will have to steal it.

>increasing 1.6 times faster than the average income.
>1.6% interest in investment from an insurance company is reasonable, a private company could technically sustain itself by investing additional income to offset unexpected price increases.

160% growth of revenue. Which is not reasonable.

>Well, since the government doesn't have a job to earn the money it spends, they will have to steal it.
Would you support for profit businesses owned and operated by the government?

There's enough money to pay 100 times healthcare for all citizen without changing any tax whatsoever.
£1 billion in 1947 had the same buying power as £31 billion in 2017.
$1 billion in 1947 had the same buying power as $13 billion in 2017.
Inflation is the big steal.