In a few years, would universal basic income work?

In a few years, would universal basic income work?

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theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing
archive.is/6KM3P
winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/revisiting-manitobas-basic-income-experiment-411490895.html
theladders.com/p/24160/drowned-robot-and-human-superiority
census.gov/quickfacts/
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no because it relies on importing goods made by slave labor overseas.

literally free money so you can buy shit made by slaves.

faggot.

theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Ya all that 'slave' labour is getting replaced by robots too.

Let's archive it
archive.is/6KM3P

In a jobless society where automation does all of the work? Yes. But that will take a few decades to really begin kicking in. So for the time being: no.

>no because it relies on importing goods made by slave labor overseas.
no it doesn't

>literally free money so you can buy shit made by slaves.
literally not

>faggot
no, you

well, those of us who have dignity would work, and the wonderful cheery harmless muslims who have no dignity and don't care will get our tax money!

and if you don't like it, anglo men in blue shirts will shoot you!

It simplifies things for everyone for the people who are basically unemployable. So in the short term this means the government spends less on several departments providing different kinds of welfare.

Long term not so clear.

Hyperinflation

No ya commie rat.
Go see what happened the last time it was tried.

>pay people just for existing, for doing nothing
>provide no incentive for actually having a job
>whole thing requires people to have jobs to be taxed to provide everyone else's money

Hmmn, really makes you wonder what could possibly go wrong.

theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

The trial in ontario is based on the trial we did in Manitoba.

So 'the last time it was tried' it was successful.

It didn't change much for men. It allowed more women to stay home and raise the kids/take care of the home.

Basically the things that Sup Forums is interested in.

theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Wrong link - this is the correct link.

winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/analysis/revisiting-manitobas-basic-income-experiment-411490895.html

Hmm one more try...

Why would you pay people to do nothing?

Eventually, sure. But first we have to get rid of the freeloaders we have who don't have status to be here, and secure the border so freeloaders don't get back in.\

You can't have a welfare state without good border controls. Otherwise you attract the world's dregs. If we implement UBI before cleansing of these people, we'll never be rid of them.

The people are already doing nothing. The trial is for people who are already on some kind of welfare already. This just makes it simply. They don't need to pretend to find a job, we don't have to pay for social workers to waste time on them pretending to find work etc.

Never. The people that have the money are not going to just give it away.

No.
The current trend is Silicon Valley saying govenrments should pay people so they can buy their products, while doing all they can to avoid paying taxes.

Yes.
Seize the means of production and kill all nonproductive people.
We will all live in interspace utopia within 20 years.

>The people are already doing nothing. The trial is for people who are already on some kind of welfare already.
How about we get rid of welfare instead

Rome in it's final stages, just giving the plebs bread not to riot.

For the US, I think it could work as a better option to the current mess of welfare programs. End all welfare programs, phase out social security, get rid of all the tax carve-outs, and instead just disburse current spending on this directly to everyone (or the poorest 50 percent, or whatever) as a monthly check. This is at least much more efficient, transparent, and less coercive than traditional programs.

>In a few years, would universal basic income work?
No. It's unaffordable.

Also, you don't deserve a basic income just because you exist.

You want money? Go out and work for it you lazy faggot.

You want free money? Die.

kind of, if lefties get enough political power to push through that bit of insanity they will also introduce forced labor for anyone who have ever said anything right wing or misgendered someone or simply for being a cis white male.

The plan for ubi is to take some money from profits from automation to finance ubi, it's not (all) from direct taxation

No, it's ridiculously expensive and the west is already going to have a huge problem trying to support aging boomers.

No thanks. I've seen what parts of the US look like and we don't have crushing third world poverty like that here in Canada.

The unemployable get healthcare and just enough money to pay for the basics.

Actually, expand welfare and education.

I know, for a braindead burger it makes no sense, why should people get something for nothing, right?

Here's the thing, educate people, and they return more once they start working. Keep educating people, and make sure they don't lose their home and family if they lose their job, and guess what. They make a net increase, on all levels of scale.

But nooooo, keep giving up your homes and kids for pocketmoney for Trump and the Cuck bros, while pajeet gets to be CEO.

My thoughts as well.

No the plan for UBI is just like every other government boondoggle
Create inflation so banks can continue to flood the country with bad loans

>In a jobless society where automation does all of the work?

When you are in the gutter and automation keeps you there. Fuck you.

median income is higher in America than Canada
>Here's the thing, educate people,
why cant people educate themselves?

Because I ask if ubi can work in a few years means im for pushing it?

I'm against ubi entirely.

dumb fuck

No, leftists and other collectivists are dehumanizing scum that want to diminish the power of the individual.

When the minimum wage jobs dry up and the cigar smoking politicians are forced to get around to it.

Nope. It won't happen until the day that government owned machines and robots make enough stuff for everyone to be able to live well. Leftist trash, as usual, are looking for slaves to work so that they do not have to. UBI merely requires that the slaves be mechanical an electronic. The free stuff for everyone made by robots is just another typical leftist fantasy about living without having to ever work.

Universal basic income in exchange for universal basic labor.

it's actually financed from bot work. Listen to its proponents, many mention this.

Better than working for (((them))).

I like you kind of commies.

>it's actually financed from bot work
Which should be allowed to create deflation and bring back demand for labor

If you are on welfare you are owned by (((them)))

If there isn't some kind of UBI implemented in this or the next generation, society will collapse. There just will not be enough money for the amount of people that will be alive.

>just will not be enough money
what is deflation?

Have they described an effective way to legislate it? How do they set the increased tax rates? What do they do if the automation is outsourced or overseas?

No

no i mention this only as a i said it before, telling you many of its proponents mention this because you said it was financed from inflation only, it's not.

Taxation doesn't create inflation either.

There are propositions to finance this using a bit of inflation but those are few and far between among the ubi advocates on youtube

>theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing
Let's not
theverge.com/2016/12/30/14128870/foxconn-robots-automation-apple-iphone-china-manufacturing

Were 20 trillion in debt.
You think its fair that the people who work are going to pay the other people to not work?

refer to
for the record im against ubi

Absolutely fucking not. This is so contrary to the human spirit it would lead to hell on earth.

No, leave my paycheck alone you globalist kikes.

>hurrr AI will take da jerbs
>google captcha still can't tell difference between cars and signs

please go back to liberal retard land

Have you considered that your government is already doing this now?

Your government spends so much on corporate welfare - especially of the military kind.

Why aren't you people expecting the government to spend your tax dollars on you, instead of the rich who have basically bought your politicians.

It would be a means of determining who's going to be weeded out in the grand Malthusian depopulation conflict or perhaps just outright cull. I'm ok with it frankly. Fuck NEETs.

Look at this downtrodden robot and rejoice at your human superiority (for now)

theladders.com/p/24160/drowned-robot-and-human-superiority

>You think its fair that the people who work are going to pay the other people to not work?

i don't, not if its a big sum, im against it and its partly why im against ubi

To be fair we already work to pay for others not to work and to vote democrat so they can elect pols to take more of our money and give it to them for not working

At least with UBI we gets a share of the gibs

no because we'll still have niggers in a few years.

in a few years all cars will be able to be almost entirely autonomated, which means all taxi and trucking jobs will be gone in most of the west. All simple jobs like fast food restaurant workers will be replaced by machines. ETC

you're the retard if i had to pick one. Also, i'm about as conservative as anyone on this board.

find a job you know will be replaced by a robot
work until robot replaces you
get laid off and profit the rest of your life

>Your government spends so much on corporate welfare - especially of the military kind.
It spends magnitudes more on welfare welfare, the unsustainable, everyone deserves X kinds.

Your argument: government to spend your tax dollars on you, instead of the rich
Reality: government spends your tax money on itself, as it always has and probably always will.

census.gov/quickfacts/

There are ~249 million people 18 or older in the USA.

It would cost you 2.49 TRILLION dollars a MONTH to give all of those people $10 a month.

UBI is fucking stupid and it can never work.

*BILLION

why

Will I get basic income on top of what I make at work?

Eventually it'll happen. It's a matter of when, not if.

The number of jobs is gradually trending towards zero over the course of several decades.

There's already a shortage of unskilled jobs, it'll only get worse. New jobs will be created, but not enough to maintain an economy.

Capitalism is bleeding to death, it can't survive in a world where human labor is increasingly worthless.

>would universal basic income work?
no, but I'd love to quit my job and live the NEET dream for a few years before it fell apart

where's all that money going to come from

are you just going to tax people more an- oh wait thats socialism proven to not work

are you just going to just use robots an- oh wait thats capitalism you need incentives for that to work

are you just going to increase your debt by a few trillion a year and rely on humanitarian aid to sustain your people? because thats the only way UBI works.

...

You give them the choice: Keep the current benefit scheme or everyone gets base level healthcare and ~$850 every two weeks while everything else is rid of including Social Security.

>Taxation doesn't create inflation either.
when it come from people that invest and goes to people that spend then yes it does

And 200 years ago 90% of people were farming
There is not a static number of jobs
There is unlimited demand for labor at the right price

Why post when you've done next to no research? Seriously, dudes.

If you crunch the numbers, and understand that UBI would hypothetically be REPLACING EXISTING WELFARE COSTS, and not supplementing them, we could easily afford UBI *now*, without increasing our taxes - at all. It'd actually cost less than the system we have now.

I'm not even a big proponent of UBI but at least understand what the fuck you're talking about before you criticize it.

I heard you like skyrocketing inflation

I want to eliminate welfare though

UBI is founded on the belief that robots will take care of all of the work and that humans will be free to do as they please with their new found free time

This works when you view the world through the lens of a 14 year old girl. Realistically, UBI will show people that the labor that they sought to never do again was their lone bargaining chip in an environment where they had little power to begin with.

> There is unlimited demand for labor at the right price

That's completely meaningless.

You could hire everyone if you only had to pay them a dollar a day, sure, but nobody'd be able to afford basic necessities, let alone purchase goods.

>but nobody'd be able to afford basic necessities
If production is cheap then they will be able to

> UBI will show people that the labor that they sought to never do again was their lone bargaining chip in an environment where they had little power to begin with.

I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that, can you elaborate?

The US already has close to a universal basic income, it just doesn't come for without strings. Thats what the military industrial complex is, even if you aren't signed up for it. When congress orders a few billion dollar jets, they do it so that congressmen will get business in their districts to build the parts all across the US. If your the age to sign up and can't do to a physical condition that prevents you from serving, you can sign up for disability pay. Thats the real reason we are always at war and always staffing bases the world over.

Production of goods has gotten cheaper and cheaper due to outsourcing and some automation, and yet our living standards have gone down the shitter because of a net loss in jobs, specifically unskilled jobs.

assuming US welfare is approximately a trillion a year (VERY large estimate)
US population (including kids) is about 300 million

1,000,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = 3.3k per person

Assuming US welfare is 400 billion (taking out medicaid),
400,000,000,000 / 300,000,000 = 1.3k per person

>much money
>such benefit
>wow

because welfare is keeping prices up

The military is the reason you sleep safe at night, you dumb fuck. I'd rather corporations get welfare anyway, they bring us innovations, jobs and provide us with products. What does fucking unemployment welfare give us?

>WHAT IF WE MADE MONEY COMPLETELY WORTHLESS WOULDN'T THAT BE COOL?!?!?!!?

>The military is the reason you sleep safe at night,
Nobody is going to invade us

If 10% of the population signed up for UBI, you'd need $550 thousand millions, over half a trillion dollars every year just to fund it.

If 25% of the population signed up, you'd have to come up with $1.38 million million, or $1.38 trillion dollars a year fund it.

If 75% signed up, that's $4.127 trillion dollars a year.

It's not feasible.

>I'm genuinely not sure what you mean by that, can you elaborate?
Not the same poster but what I think he means is that the one thing that gives the average joe any power over the government is that ultimately they control the production of goods, including necessities like food.

So if government owned machines did all that work then we have absolutely no power over the government.

More world welfare for america to pay

Because of the fucking military.

A few more years of advancement in automation and it's going to have to otherwise the plebs are going to slaughter the corporate aristocracy.

UBI will never work because value is relative. All it will do is inflate currency.

>give $25k to all 250 million adults every year
>costs over $6 trillion
>get $2 trillion back in taxes
>increases deficit at least $4 trillion

that should answer it

How?

Oh, you mean socialism? They've tried that, its failed in pretty much every country its been tried in, so you want to fund it on a worldwide scale?

this

Canada doesn't have anywhere near the military of the US and I feel safer here then I think you are.

Your military is just a huge system to take your tax dollars, and feed a small number of companies that make a small group of people very rich, and in tern prove slave level jobs for otherwise uneducated and unemployable people. Which you could argue is better then those people rotting in ghetto's.

But the US could do much more if it spent its money on the middle class and not just keeping the rich - rich.

>So if government owned machines did all that work then we have absolutely no power over the government.
Unless of course, you owned some of those machines as well.

It is an idea whose time has come. It will replace all inefficient subsidies, socialised schemes etc.

the reason you feel safe is because your country has the godly luck to be next to the US and share western values, you don't need a big military BECAUSE the US has such a strong one that our mere proximity to you scares the ever living shit out of any organized rebellious organization from forming in your midst. We are only less safe because that large military makes us more of a target. But keep telling yourself that your countries success has nothing to do with a lack of need for a military to spend your tax dollars on.