Obamacare

Can someone succinctly (read: briefly) explain the main controversial points of Obamacare, including the reason the left loves it and the right despises it (in general)? Thanks

Sure:
In western, majority white countries, a majority of people who suffer health problems are SELF-INFLICTED.

>Heart disease
related to obesity
>Lung cancer
related to smoking
>Drunk driving/other related drinking problems
related to drinking

Basically: I'm a young healthy man who works out, eats well, etc.

I don't need insurance. I don't need to be on the same bill as old people, obese people, women, etc.

There's a reason Obamacare is marketed to young people. We're supposed to be paying the bills.

Obamacare is a tax on healthy people and rich people. That's all it is.

The only people who benefit don't pay into Obamacare (read: welfare or medicaid), because they're getting tons of free healthcare that those of us who are healthy are forced to pay for.

I would say it's not a left or right issue but it clearly is.

Poor people vote democrat. Rich people vote republican.

Rich people want to keep more of their money. Poor people want the rich's money.

Also healthy/young people should be against Obamacare but our media and government is so wracked with disinformation that Obamacare was successfully marketed to young people.

Interesting - but why is it such a "disaster?" Why do premiums go up if more people are paying into it? My little brain can't wrap itself around this

>Why do premiums go up if more people are paying into it?

More people aren't paying into it. Many of the healthy people who used to have insurance (me included I'm a student) cannot afford Obamacare.

I believe Obamacare gained 21mil new coverages and lost 14mil.

So a 7 mil increase. Many of whom are NOT healthy-rich people.

More unhealthy people on insurance? That means insurance rates will go up.

I have to pay $6k before I can get monthly payments for coverage. Where does that 6k go? Not to me. I haven't been in a hospital or doctor's office in 15 years

That money goes to all of the obese people who couldn't afford coverage before Obamacare.

I actually could rustle up 6k to get insurance, but I don't feel I need it and I don't feel it's fair to be on the same bill as someone who's 700lbs when I'm in the gym 4-5 days a week, don't drink soda, and eat healthy home-cooked meals.

One reason is that it's now illegal to discriminate against preexisting conditions.

Its named after a nigger

Obamacare is massively underfunded, but hey what is a few extra Trillion dollars when you're already drowning in $21 trillion worth of debt?

I am a healthy 28 year old white male who has my own business and bring home around $40k a year so I'm not rich at all. My insurance is as follows

>$7500 deductible
>out of pocket scripts up to my deductible
>same thing for doctor visits
>cost $200 per month
>they are saying to expect a 20% increase for 2018

What the fuck people. How can anyone like this? Sure the dirt poor people who don't work (like my aunt) can get killer insurance for $5 a month and shit but anyone who makes just a little gets fucked hard.

Obese people and poor people like it.

For the rest of us - just another tax.

We already have welfare for everything from higher education to housing. Why not healthcare too?

What are you a bigot? You hate fat people?

I know I am..

Because they want to force healthy people to pay the medical bills of unhealthy people. One of the key concepts of insurance is there is a pool of average people who aren't sick that pay into a pot over a long period of time. When someone in that pool gets sick, money goes to that person. Since most expensive illnesses are rare and most people might get a serious illness maybe once every couple decades, the math works out.

Obamacare lets anyone join the pool, even if they're already sick and even if they haven't actually put any money in the pot effectively making the system impossible and so to make up for it, basically healthy people have to put way more money in the pot.

I am a recovering fat (lost 90 pounds in a year) my diet is crazy heathy in comparison to what most Americans eat. Haven't had soda in over a year. The thing is though even when I was fat as fuck and eating fast food 4 times a day I did not spend a lot of time in doctor offices or hospitals (I've been to the doctor once in 3 years and tb was for the flu, never been to the hospital). Maybe it's because I'm still young, either way Obamacare fucks over the average working person way more than the system in place before. Sure it helps bottom feeders more, but fuck those people they aren't even trying to help themselves.

So then it is the injection of Communism into our healthcare system?

It is really quite simple, and ingenious. The left wants to destroy the middle class, the bedrock of any true republic. And when i say middle class i mean the REAL middle class, those who do not rely on the government or corporations for their livelihood, and are thus truly free to make the best decisions for the country. Self employed people, small buisiness owners.The ACA is good for the working and non working poor, as they get free healthcare, and good for the people that work for big corporations, as they will still get insurance. The middle class, the self employed, have lost all hope of getting health insurance. Premiums are $1000 per month with massive deductibles, literally unpayable. So the middle class will either be bankrupt and forced into poverty or will be forced to quit their small businesses and professions and join a large corporation, where they will be easier to control.

Can you explain how it is good for the poor? Is insurance free under Obamacare if you prove that you make under a certain amount?

So who's going to pay for your health insurance when you're old and premiums are like $10k/month by then?

Your fat logic of hurrdurr fat and healthy is fucking retarded. Unless you have visible collar bones or striation of muscle you are still a fat fuck.

>Is insurance free under Obamacare if you prove that you make under a certain amount?

Just like any other kind of welfare.

Apparently single mothers (welfare obv) really benefit from Obamacare, but if an adult male is in the household, your allowance goes down...hmm really makes you think.

You will sonny boy. This is the great system we have in place. Social security. Medicaid. Old people get free shit. You pay for it.

forced to pay for crap I dont want

You should not pay for my health care. I should not pay for yours.

Nobody is drowning in $21 trillion worth of debt. Uncle Sam's deficit is irresponsibly small.

Medicare doesn't kick in until 65. You'll most likely be needing healthcare before then.

Holy fuck can you project any more? I literally said one of the main reasons was the fact that I was not experiencing healthy issues was due to my young age. I am well aware at what would have happened if I had kept up the fat life.

Fuck off you literal idiot. He said he's dropped 90 pounds which means he's progressively dropping the weight. He didn't say he's healthy he said he eats healthy, hence his weight is dropping. Why the fuck are you so triggered at the thought that there MIGHT be a fat person on the internet? Fucking read!

>You'll most likely be needing healthcare before then.

Maybe so, but then again it should be cheaper by then. I'm healthy. The average millennial is going to die younger than their parents.

What a sad statistic. With the wealth of knowledge and medical advancements we should be able to keep people alive longer. But we can't because people are killing themselves via food addiction.

I have nothing to do with obesity, I should not be forced to pay for it. End of story.

My wife's mom doesn't work, she's just lazy no health issues, and when her husband recently lost his job she signed up for obama care, they got it for $5 a fucking month. That's with coverage like 3 levels better than my shit coverage that cost m $200 a month for a single person.

People like me can amass unquantifiable amounts of data to manipulate entire races of people.

I'm like the George Soros of hacking.

Insurance isn't for sick people. You honestly think it's reasonable for you to pay $19 a month or whatever and receive thousands of dollars of medication? Why would they cover you with a pre-existing condition? Why do you hate capitalism?

Mandating everyone have insurance or be fined is a pretty slick way of increasing the overall insurance coverage though, gotta give it to Barry.

Our families health insurance went from under 10,000 a year for 3 people to over 30,000 a year

It's a disaster when people had healthcare through their work have
THIS
happen

that makes very little sense since the poorest states vote Republican every time. Celebrities are rich and vote dem, several billionaires are liberal i mean dude come on.
The concepts and conclusion you have i agree with but lets just remember that most poor people do not vote for Democrats and most rich people do not vote for Republicans. I believe it may be mixed a lot between classes. It's better to look at social groups instead.

Without Obamacare, I'd be dead.

You tell me if that's a good thing.

Democrats would never win an election without their base of impoverished inner city niggers and beaners

>You tell me if that's a good thing.
yes

>that makes very little sense since the poorest states vote Republican every time.

The most Republican state is still at least 40% Democrat.

Also red states give more to private charities. You know. The ones that help people in need. Not the mob-like government that promotes social engineering via welfare mandates like "single mothers get MORE welfare than a family with a father included"?

>Celebrities are rich and vote dem, several billionaires are liberal i mean dude come on.

And yet "Republican" states give more to private charities. Celebs will be at the top no matter what, they will be at the top in a socialist or communist country regardless of how fucked the middle class is.

> just remember that most poor people do not vote for Democrats and most rich people do not vote for Republicans. I believe it may be mixed a lot between classes. It's better to look at social groups instead

This is wrong. 60% of people who earn over 40k/year vote Republican.
60% of people who earn under 25k/year vote Democrat

Hmm really makes you think

If you click the image of the first sticky post on Sup Forums you'll find you've just committed a logical fallacy, namely the bandwagon fallacy.

This essentially means a group of people having an opinion doesn't have any bearing on the fact of the matter.

The more you know!

Sucks you're still alive

Well then to hell with Obamacare.

If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die by starvation.

Or bullet wounds.

Or stabbing.

Or car crash into the entrance of a supermarket.

Not the same guy, but I wish I was dead, does that count?

As someone who generally doesn't know, it seems to me:
the left
>THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!
the right
>HE'S A FUCKING NIGGER!!

Either you or your parents were irresponsible, sorry you died faggot.

All truth.
Please pay your insurance premiums, younglings. My decades of heavy drinking has now morphed to obesity and I still haven't quit using tobacco.

>If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die by starvation.
Statistically speaking you'll either be shot by a nigger or die of a heart attack you fat piece of shit. Personally I hope both at the same time.

>it should be cheaper by then
The delusion is strong.

Same.

/Thread

Can't say I didn't try.

and I had such a clean track record, too.

Total waste of time and energy, really, find yourself another chump.

Is that a Hindenburg Janoy in the mirror?

Holy fucking shit, when will the United States (the best country?) catch up with the rest of modern society and just socialize health care - oh wait that would destroy the Health insurance industry and they have a shitload of lobbyists in Washington D.C.

I was joking because all of the millenials are going to die out at 40-50 from obesity.

Obviously costs are skyrocketing. That's why I'm
1) healthy
2) don't pay insurance
3) against socialized healthcare

Good retard *pats your head* wouldn't want those poor health insurance megacorporations to lose profit!

Jokes on you.

I'm not on obamacare.

>socialize health care
>300 million people
>almost majority nonwhite
that's gonna go well mate, good luck

>poorest states vote republican
>states with the highest population of blacks

gee i wonder why they are so poor

healthcare insurance? the most fair system?

we have the best healthcare in the world. i dont care how much it costs as long as i can get it when i need it.

i dont need it, so i dont have insurance.

most healthcare issues are self-inflicted.

don't want obese people getting free healthcare either *pats your plump unsightly stomach*

Personally I suggest we revoke Social Security for the baby boomers and fund heatlhcare, it would pay for it 10x's.

Save your own fucking money that you earned in your youth. Don't just blow it all in your twenties/thirties/forties.

I'm not personally familiar with your social security but to do something like that on a federal level just won't work. Let the fucking states work it out, that's what the cunts are for.

yeah let's get healthcare for the boomers.

us, young people, definitely need lots of healthcare.

i guess..those of us addicted to food/alcohol/drugs

How about people take care of their own families like they did in the past

I agree but the Federal government (since our Civil War) controls everything.

Medical professionals need to get some UBI or some shit.

ollooloololloolooloolloloololool

learn2read

I hate boomers, fuck em.

i want to cum on her feet

we can't do that because then people would actually need dads.

REMINDER: single mothers get more money from welfare than actual families with a father.

Probably why nothing works :^)

ok then let your parents starve to death
I dont give a shit

Definitely.

that's actually fine with me

left loves it cause its free gibs to degenerate democrat voters

right hates it cause they pay for those gibs

this destroys the black family unit, and this is why 74% of black children grow up without a father.

Dems pass bill on partisan vote
Dems back load flaws in bill so the hit after obama out of office
Bill has flaws but Repubs won't help fix because it they weren't part of it
Timebomb is going off and it will collapse

Don't pass major legislation on partisan lines

sad to see but our government is definitely in the business of fucking up families for more control

Honestly I'm always surprised you guys have such a hard on for no taxation without representation yet somehow missed the parasite destroying corrallary "no representation without taxation". Like fuck that was the original point of the republic

>the left loves it and the right despises it

Because it's not called "Romneycare"

t. Not a medical professional.

I just support educated doctors, which I am not.

Rare? Also checked

haha disregard that

I SUX COX

How is it free gibs if everyone has to pay for it

>Rare?

American poster on vacation

>Individual Mandate
>Government strongarming healthy young people into buying insurance they dont need

god bless america

Eat shit you roided asshole hows it feel to have a 1/2 inch pecker and BB balls? go suck a dick muscle fuck we know who those muscles are for and thy don't have vaginas lol faggot.

More welfare. Ensures Democratic power in politics by making being a single black mother with 14 kids by 14 different fathers a viable life plan. You might have heard the "50% of births are covered by Medicaid!" shit the left is spewing, which means that 50% of births in this country are from women who can't afford to feed themselves.

Also Obama let Karen Ignagni write the bill. She leads the insurance company lobby. Stupid.

Also, little known fact, personal injury attorneys (the ones who advertise 'have you been injured by x medication') are one of democrats' top 3 funders, over big pharma, over oil, over everything. This is why you didn't see tort reform. A doctor has to pay roughly 20% of his income as malpractice insurance because these human leeches sue doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies all the time over BULLSHIT and win because people in their firms work in the mayors office or some shit. Nobody will touch them though because they have a shitload of money and they will crucify whoever tries to.

The vast majority of healthcare-related price increases are from hospitals, medical equipment companies and pharmaceutical companies charging an arm and a leg. Health insurance is merely a reflection of what those other three groups are charging for their services. Think about it - health insurance companies are on the hook for those $25K overnight hospital stays and the prescriptions that cost $3K per month and the expensive treatments using the latest version of the Super CAT Scan 9000.

Any legislation that only addresses health insurance will do nothing to slow down the rising prices of healthcare in America because health insurance prices are merely the symptom, not the cause.

It's not just the lobbyists. The medical and insurance industries are huge employers and many of those jobs are unnecessary. Think about this, the average hospital has about as many people working in the billing department as it does beds. Now suppose the US switches over to a socialized system tomorrow and radically simplifies the billing process. Hundreds of thousands of decent paying jobs have just been made obsolete. Economically, the indirect effect is worse because even more people will later be fired as those former medical billers stop shopping and paying their bills until they can find new jobs.

No politicians wants to say that he destroyed thousands of jobs in his district and caused a recession.

Most of the administrative jobs at hospitals are affirmative action hires enforced by the government.

yeah hospitals and doctors overcharge because insurance companies pay the bill, people aren't paying the bill directly, easy to jack up the price. of course insurance companies have to raise prices.

but Obamacare makes it much worse by adding people who are obese, smokers, drinkers, etc. to the pool of moderately healthy people who now have doubled or even tripled costs to absorb the unhealthy people. and sometimes healthy people cant afford Obamacare so they just forego healthcare altogether taking money out of the pot for insurance.

>radically simplifies the billing process

Obamacare tried to do that. I work in a hospital. You have no fucking idea how much more complicated trying to 'simplify' things made everything. We had to double our clerical staff.

>We had to double our clerical staff.

Yeah to hire more women who basically do nothing. More "office" workers in a hospital doesn't seem efficient.

Obamacare increased hospital costs and insurance costs. So obviously the overall cost goes up. Efficiency is not the government's forte. If that's even the goal.

>yeah hospitals and doctors overcharge because insurance companies pay the bill, people aren't paying the bill directly, easy to jack up the price. of course insurance companies have to raise prices.

You're a fucking idiot and have no idea what goes on. Doctor's payouts have been decreasing, insurance companies dictate the payouts. Thousands of doctors went out of business because of Obamacare.

32yo. Never used the hospital. After Obamacare my insurance cost increased from $68/month to $160.

>Thousands of doctors went out of business because of Obamacare.

We have a shortage of doctors.

Less people are becoming doctors. More of our population is older. More women are becoming doctors who take time off for kids and work less hours than men on avg.

You're absolutely wrong.

Many doctors don't accept medicaid because reimbursement rates are not as good.

Yeah OBVIOUSLY insurance rates go up. You're adding millions of unhealthy people and taking healthy people away from the insurance pool.

>SELF-INFLICTED
These are self-inflicted in ways in which many environmental factors predispose people to unhealthy behaviors.
For instance, we give people shit education about nutrition and then surround them with soda ads. They choose to consume too much soda. This results in heart disease, premature deaths, and an obesity epidemic. I think anyone with some sense will observe that it's expecting too much of people to think they will overcome barriers that surround them. Our role in creating a healthy society is to create a healthy environment where people can get good health care and are not surrounded by soda advertising. America has failed at this so far because despite being the wealthiest large country in the world, its health sucks terribly. The rich get most of the benefits of high-tech health care; the poor get little. The result is that American life expectancy at the moment is DECREASING. Do you hear that? DECREASING!!
This is a shit situation and Trump's health proposal would only have made it worse. Fortunately there are enough Republicans around who actually care about Americans and not just about rich people.

Take a look at BLS data from the past few years. There's a category called "Health care and social assistance" and it's been the fastest growing source of decent paying jobs in the county. Overpriced medical care is a giant public works project.

Here's what's bullshit. If I'm going to be taxed either directly by the government or indirectly through increasing insurance premiums, then I at least want something good to come out of it. At least when the government taxes me to build a road there's a road I can use at the end of the day. Hospital admin jobs don't even have a tangible return.

>They choose to consume too much soda.
>choose
This results in heart disease, premature deaths, and an obesity epidemic.

So warnings on Mtn Dew then?

>Our role in creating a healthy society is to create a healthy environment where people can get good health care and are not surrounded by soda advertising.

So remove Mtn Dew entirely?

>America has failed at this so far because despite being the wealthiest large country in the world, its health sucks terribly

Yes poor people tend to be less healthy, eat more junk food, etc. Isn't that their choice? Isn't it my choice not to pay for their choices?

>the poor get little.

They make their choices I make mine. I'm not an obese unhealthy alcoholic.

>The result is that American life expectancy at the moment is DECREASING. Do you hear that? DECREASING!!

Yeah I'm upset about that too. People are choosing to become alcoholics, etc.

Do we remove their free choice?

>Yeah to hire more women who basically do nothing. More "office" workers in a hospital doesn't seem efficient.

Again, you really have no idea what goes on in hospitals. A single patient visit under Obamacare takes roughly 2-5 manhours to process. Couple that with the fact that you have maybe 30 patients moving through a single physicians office in a single day and you suddenly have 90 hours of work to complete in 8. All of those people are working nonstop. The hospital work environment is NOTHING like normal corporate work environments.

is that really who she slept with?! wtf man... celebrities have some sick fetishes

You're wrong. I'm in medical school. Both of my parents are doctors. Everyone I know works in medicine.

>A single patient visit under Obamacare takes roughly 2-5 manhours to process.

Okay we agree government healthcare is terrible an inefficient.

>The hospital work environment is NOTHING like normal corporate work environments.

It is though. Sure there are people at the bottom who work hard. But you gotta have managers and a chain of command. That's where the useless additions come in. It's just part of the scum government/corporate manifestation of inefficiency.

The statistics disagree with "everyone you know who WORKS in medicine" funny they all WORK in medicine and aren't out of a job huh

We have a major shortage of doctors its fucking common knowledge

If you're talking about administrators, yeah that's like a corporate work environment but that's usually only about 10 people whereas what I'm talking about is hundreds of people doing clerical and billing and dozens doing accounting.

>only about 10 people

Only about 10 people making 6 figures