Moderator over at r/neoliberal here! (I was being ironic by the way, yes I'm a moderator there, but I know you guys use that "redditor here!" line to mock redditors, so I was being doubly ironic)
Anyway, I'm here to debate you knuckle draggers. What is a neoliberal? Well, put simply, I believe in evidence based policy, following the facts wherever they may lead, and I believe that with the innovative power of capitalism and evidence based policy in our government, we can create safe, happy, healthy nations!
What's wrong snowflake, need your little safe space? Can't debate an intellectual, need to hide behind memes and catch phrases?
I'm probably the most well read, well studied man on this board, I'm a self described "policy wonk". I will destroy anyone that dares debate me.
Carson Butler
>I'm probably the most well read, well studied man on this board yikes. Smart people don't need to tell you their smart. And we don't need pointless bait threads shitting up the board
Cooper Gomez
>the most well read, well studied man on this board >yikes. Smart people don't need to tell you their smart. And we don't need pointless bait threads shitting
Not pointless at all my small brained friend! Debate is essential for a happy, healthy mind!
Joshua Hughes
>their >they're because i know you'll sperg out about that
Jeremiah Wright
What is the best neoliberal war the US has ever fought, and who should we go to war with next?
Jeremiah Campbell
well you're confirmed satan, so yea
Alexander Carter
...
Zachary Williams
Well, I think you're confusing me with neoconservatives my friend! I don't support war, although I'll say the post WWII GI Bill was an example of well crafted public policy that improved this country! We need a 21st century GI Bill for the inner cities, so to speak.
Adam Bennett
>We need a 21st century GI Bill for the inner cities, so to speak.
Lincoln Rogers
...
Ayden Wilson
My understanding of neo-liberalism is that they have the same basic foreign policy as neo-conservatives.Make democracy a religion in order to justify interventionism. Educate me about your foreign policy if I am wrong.
Jose Ross
Why is the United States the best country in the world?
Robert Wood
Eh, fuck it I'll bite, at least this is discussion. What topic specifically would you like to debate about?
Angel Martinez
so what does a neoliberal actually believe? not some dribble about 'blah, blah, blah, I'm smart and stuff'
Josiah White
Okay, it's been about three minutes, I suppose I'll set the terms of debate in this case, what is your position on immigration?
Julian Brown
You're fucking gay you faggot
Daniel Robinson
My foreign policy is very basic, only act in the best interests of the United States. That's the underlying principle, so sometimes that may mean deposing of someone rotten in another nation if he poses some threat to our interest, sometimes it may mean being isolationist for decades. Neoconservatives seem to want to act in the interest of other nations.
Because it recognizes universal human rights, and given the current power disparity between nations (the US is militarily more powerful than the second best nation by a LARGE margin) I'd like to have someone that recognizes rights with that much power.
Whatever you like, I'm a policy wonk after all!
Jack Kelly
Immigration boosts GDP of the host nation, I say we have an open doors policy with immigrants having restricted access to the natives welfare state! Taco trucks everywhere, I say!
Lucas Sullivan
What's wrong with being gay? I think homophobes ought to be economically ostracized for to maintain national health.
Jonathan Nguyen
(you) But as embarrassing as it is, I used to be a neo-liberal in school.
Aaron Hughes
This is what's wrong with you, you have segregated yourselves from the plain truth by retreating into statistics. Neoliberalism is just an insidious form of nihilism. You should be gutted and fed to the dogs.
Colton Rodriguez
Since you are so liberal and intelligent, how do you think Trump is doing on the environment? Better than Obama and Hillary?
Lucas Bell
>I believe in evidence based policy
What do you think about racial differences in intelligence? How should we form society based on these scientifically proven differences?
Lucas Richardson
>boosts GDP of the host nation
yes multinational corporations make more money from mass immigration. no one here refutes this. the social cost to the health of a culture and people is not worth what net gains large companies make.
Landon Richardson
>Well, put simply, I believe in evidence based policy, following the facts wherever they may lead, and I believe that with the innovative power of capitalism and evidence based policy in our government, we can create safe, happy, healthy nations!
Can you be more specific that description encompases everything from social democrats to classical liberals
Easton Sullivan
>That's the underlying principle, so sometimes that may mean deposing of someone rotten in another nation if he poses some threat to our interest, sometimes it may mean being isolationist for decades.
This is precious. You're a neocon with a pride lapel pin. Corporatist slave.
Jacob Miller
tard
Ethan Johnson
You're a nigger and I hate you. Post your rebuttal in no more than 5 minutes or you forfeit.
Hudson Garcia
Do I believe in racism given an intellectual veneer? Lol, what will you ask next, do I believe in alchemy? Come on man, why are you guys so obsessed with 20th century eugenics nonsense?
Gabriel Price
Holy fuck. Been a while since i've seen a post this fucking gay.
Christopher Hall
>capitalism and government in the same sentence hang ur self op
Cooper Anderson
>>Taco trucks
Isn't that kind of stereotypical and racist?
Evan Howard
Neoliberals don't build anything on evidence.
Sorry. They don't. If evidence based policy was a hallmark of liberalism, you wouldn't be following the same policies you have which have gutted middle america and destroyed inner cities, all while feeding them platitudes and creating a form of cannibalistic codependency that destroys communities while you and your well to do gated ivory tower elite reap the benefits.
You're alls prostitutes and gangsters hell bent on pimping and pandering the american people to your corporate masters.
Isaac Baker
(Sage) My friend, just a few tips:
* Ad-Hominem attacks look very bad for your argument from the get-go. If you're not a LARPer, and you're a genuine moderator, how can you not see that?
* Neoliberalism is a meme. You're just an overglorified Libertarian (capital L) with a bad case of identity crisis.
* We all believe in following the facts. That's why you have to come to 4ch to get the redpills.
Overall, disappointing thread. You're obviously not interested in discussion, but only a holier-than-thou mockery of what could've honestly been great dialectic. I've saged this, but I hope you've at least learned something.
[Obligatory] You fucking faggot.
Cooper Lewis
>Come on man, why are you guys so obsessed with 20th century eugenics nonsense?
>I believe in evidence based policy >I believe there are no differences between people of different races Pick one or you're already contradicting yourself
Justin Parker
Obama wasn't great on the environment. Given that I like facts, I'd say we needed to start beating down on climate change yesterday, so I'd love if Mr. Trump would do massive infrastructure spending on clean energy. Jobs + clean energy + a renewed optimism in science, seems like a no brainer to me. Mr. Trump seems to be pandering to coal miners whose jobs will never come back, sorry but that's just science.
Anarcho capitalism is an incoherent, fringe ideology. Private property can't exist without the state, and environmental regulations are necessary in the 21st century. Simply using some sort of tort system and property rights (which couldn't even be enforced in ancap world, but assuming they could) won't stop the greatest environmental threat of all time, climate change.
Nathaniel Roberts
Idealogical neoliberals don't exist. You just can't think your way into stupid. They're like Santa Clause or the Easter bunny or the FBI's dedication to Justice.
Ryan Williams
I see you are not actually interested in evidence based policy as you say.
Nolan Howard
Middle america has taken a small hit, but the damage suffered by them has been more than made up by the increased happiness shared by the GLOBAL poor. China, India, and many African nations have seen severe poverty plummet. Sounds like the system is working, right?
Caleb Bell
How do you feel about NAFTA? Please address or at least consider the condition of maquilladoras and the Mexican interior in general, the state of American manufacturing, and the increasingly unequal distribution of wealth in all involved countries when you answer.
Charles Sanders
(Sage) I can't even figure out where to begin, unpacking your non-factual arguments (especially about the relationship between government and the individual).
I'll spend a minute or two writing some things up, be right back.
Jaxon Jenkins
I doubt you will uncuck on race realism, so I'll ask something else.
What are your thoughts on immigration and its effect on community cohesion. There have been several studies showing that the more diverse a area is the worse civic outcomes are. There is also some evidence to suggest that a countries diversity negatively correlates with empathy for fellow citizens and therefor leads to lower social spending(which I at least think is bad)
How do we resolve this issue?
Charles Long
I believe the poor education policy in this country is to blame for racial IQ discrepencies, not some eugenicist nonsense. Blacks need better SCHOOLS, not GENES. And schools can be changed with evidence based policy.
Samuel Phillips
>Y axis with no scale Nice chart, friend.
Lucas Clark
>Whats wrong with being gay? You cant ask this question and be concerned about maintaining the national health. And if you need that explained any further your an idiot.
Jack Fisher
Michigan adoption study
Mason Mitchell
Whats your opinion on Assad?
Bentley Rivera
While I agree on cutting welfare access, the effect of migration to GDP is very small, for example, Australia allowed 180,000 permanent visas into the nation in 2010-2011 and overall they are projected to add about 700 million dollars into their economy over one year, that would be about 4000 AUD per capita, which I would say is the more important number to look at when looking at how the population generally does, and this is far below the average of 36000 AUD, when it comes to immigration, I typically prefer for there to be a meritocracy system which would boost the economy further. Another thing to look at is the cultural impact of immigration, where assimilation would be more important and having them in the middle class as opposed to an underclass which would eventually be replaced by automation anyways, leaving them below the poverty line. What's your response?
Isaiah Moore
People tend to self segregate, problem solved. Cohesive communities will form naturally, whether it's along racial lines, religious lines, age lines, gender lines, sports team affiliation etc.
Luke Hughes
Intelligence is genetic and heritable. Differences in intelligence between ethnic groups are due to genetics alone. Better education will not change differences in group intelligence, they'll always remain.
Can you reconcile your post here With the one here >only act in the best interests of the United States
Brody Ross
The reason Mexico is shit is because it is peopled by Mexicans. If we add millions of Mexicans to the US we will become more like Mexico. More crime, more corruption, more rape, etc.
Your position is transparently absurd and deeply immoral. I don't really believe you think this. I think you're just an edgy troll.
Noah Adams
Bad, but probably better than any other alternative.
Only neoLuddites and commies believe that all work is going to be automated in the future, we're not going to see mass automation coupled with mass unemployment, ever.
Cameron Myers
We do not have freedom of association in this country since the civil rights act. separate but equal was actually a great policy, we just needed better enforcement on the equal part.
Jeremiah Flores
Your a faggot and I hate you. Post your rebuttal in 5 minutes or your on the hang list basement dwelling scumbag. Then GTFO, and STFO
Easton Wood
Come on man, gas yourself already
Carson Gonzalez
>we're not going to see mass automation coupled with mass unemployment, ever.
Except its already happened twice in the past?
Jacob Perry
>Bad, but probably better than any other alternative. MOre reasonable than most in our current neo liberal regime, however Assad is not bad. He is leader in the middle east, thats why the Islamist Sunnnis hate him
Jonathan Lopez
>*let's Muslims into his country that put his family's safety at risk* >*let's various other third world savages into his country to work for peanuts and destroy the job market for entry level workers so the elites can profit indefinitely* >*votes to give his money to said savages so the elites can pay them even less while the taxpayers pick up the tab on the rest of their living expenses* >*thinks men with breast implants are women* >I'm so smart! Everybody look at how smart I am!
Jack Edwards
Well, the government exists to secure the safety of its citizens, not necessarily to ensure them an easy life. That much they need to do on their own. If they are getting cheaper goods because of people in other nations doing those jobs at a lower wage, so be it.
Even if it were true (it's not, humans are malleable to their environments) we could just keep first generation mexicans from accessing all the privileges that native citizens have, that way they can't vote politicians in that are corrupt or incompetent.
Gabriel Brown
Even eveidence based policy is subject to bias.
Jayden Brooks
As a side interest op what are your thoughts on the Republican healthcare reform? I think it is a decent start, but they need to add preloaded HSA accounts and preferably match poor peoples savings in this account in the same way employers match 401k matching. My preferred system would be to make catastrophic insurance affordable (40ish% actuarial value) for everyone and then use HSA subsidies to help people pay the out of pocket expenses.
Obamacare is awful because of the terrible incentive system it creates, and universal healthcare is even worse with pricing control creating shortages, and destroying innovation.
Ayden Gonzalez
FPBP
Ryan Baker
This faggot has to be fake.
Christopher Sanders
>bumping a thread made by a lelditto Sage this shit, cunts
Dylan Robinson
You have yet to refute any of my studies. Is it safe to assume, (for the sake of the debate), that I am correct in this environment?
Ryder Reed
>401k matching 401k contributions*
Jayden Torres
...
Easton Torres
Why do you ignore inconvenient questions? These aren't even stormfag bait.
Hunter Williams
Who decides the cutoff for 'homophobic'? Does not wanting a pre-op man transitioning into woman to pee next to my daughter in a bathroom make me homophobic?
Brayden Brown
Neo-liberals are generally right about a lot of things, but they deny race exists and because of that come up with all sorts of fucked up policy ideas. They can't actually argue against it logically though, they are use to just being able to claim antisemitism/racism and shutting the conversation down.
Ryder Perry
You realize that Obama supported a trade agreement called the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which would have outsourced more American jobs, right?
And you realize that the shipping industry is one of the greatest contributors to global carbon emissions?
The TPP also was heavily criticized due to its lack of environmental protections. The Paris Deal was also flawed due to the facts that it allowed polluters like China to keep polluting like they are to continue making cheap Chinese goods that fall apart easily and have to be remade and reshipped. We also have no way of actually enforcing it, so we have to take their word for it that they are actually upholding the deal. Hillary was for this deal and lied during the election; you know one of those public/private positions.
Trump wants more local manufacturing, which would decrease emissions from shipping. He also took the initial steps to bring back more steel manufacturing through executive order; the steel industry accounts for over 20% of current carbon emissions; the fact that we don't have to import it, means less emissions from shipping and higher environmental standards that can be enforced.
Also what do you mean by clean energy? Solar? How exactly do we get the rare earth metals required to make photovoltaic panels? Do they just magically pop out of the ground without any carbon being burned to acquire them? What about their 50 some year lifespan?
I'd like to know the answers to these questions, after all you are the brilliant liberal policy wonk and I'm just the dumb Trump supporter. However it is my humble opinion that if you want to "beat down" climate change, Trump is your guy.
P.S. Pandering to coal miners is not "science." And the Democrats strategy of calling a turd green, than flying in a private jet to a luxury resort to listen to actors talk about how the peasants should curtail their lifestyle isn't very environmentally friendly.
Henry Rogers
Well of course not all work obviously, I'm talking about the jobs that lower wage immigrants may typically get, such as in processing which is becoming more automated, besides that, the point I'm trying to make is that skilled entrepreneurial immigrants which would become self-employed and add to the economy more would be a larger priority than menial labor immigrants.
Nathaniel Perry
...
Logan Miller
This. OP, serious question. How will it ever be possible to be sure the facts you worship aren't being forged for you? If you were president, and I was a scientist with a dog in the race, I'd work my whole life to make sure you believed we have to stop global warming. How do you know the people giving you the facts aren't playing you for their own gain?
If it wasn't clear enough, (((((())))))
Carson Green
Sounds terrible, I can be safe and broke. I would trade security for wealth. I guess I am not a neo-lib.
Isaac Myers
>neoliberal >believe in evidence based policy
sorry you can only choose one
Luke Morales
>we could just keep first generation mexicans from accessing all the privileges that native citizens have So you're arguing for slavery and you're pro segregation according to . Why not take that a step further and say that certain classes of people should be in power (white people)? You claim to be believe in 'science based policy' so obviously you'd agree with in that regard. Am I missing anything here?
Connor Parker
Neoliberalism is obsolete, you guys had a good 20 year run with a string of measly mouthed faggots and bull dikes preaching the multiculti Utopia, like Tony Blair and Merkel. The future is race war or Islamic domination. In either case you spineless faggots will quickly forget everything you believed in - because neoliberalism is a fair weather ideology. You're nothing people.
Nicholas Wright
Holy shit OP, what's it like to get blown out this hard?
Cameron Miller
OP once again proving Reddit is full of faggots
Carson Moore
>Even if it were true (it's not, humans are malleable to their environments) It's obviously true. You think something about Mexican geography makes Mexicans the way they are? Anglo colonies, like USA, Canada, Australia, or New Zealand are all doing amazing. Mexico, also a colony, is doing quite poorly. I wonder if it could have to do with the fact that their people are half native, have demonstrably lower IQ, and different political ideas.
Have you noticed how hispanics in the US tend to vote Democrat whereas whites tend to vote conservative. What kind of integration or adaptation do you think is happening here?
>we could just keep first generation mexicans from accessing all the privileges that native citizens have, that way they can't vote politicians in that are corrupt or incompetent
You obviously have zero grasp of history or politics. Why you would try to discuss politics is a mystery. Look at the electoral history of California. It used to be a conservative state, and has recently shifted far left - not coincidentally, it has admitted millions of hispanics. Hispanics that disproportionately vote Democrat. California has a state income tax, sales tax, insane housing markets in the major cities, crime problems, water problems, and is deeply in debt. Hmmm, who do we know who is demonstrably shit at running governments who has recently taken over California?
Adrian Reyes
you could literally call yourself a neo-conservative and have the exact same kind of thread please learn what neo-liberalism is before you subscribe to it, the more you learn it the more you will hate it.
Brandon Moore
importing low wage workers essentially imports more people to take on debt and prop up the welfare state for that much longer
all that these crooks are doing by opening the border is prolonging the moment until this entire house of cards collapses
fuck you for wanting open immigration
i bet you live in a gated community far away from where these migrants actually settle
Daniel Rogers
I'd like to see a national, universal program for catastrophic injuries/ailments, and a mostly free market for everything else. We've got really weird expectations for healthcare in this country in terms of what should be covered by insurance and what shouldn't.
I simply don't have time to read racial pseudoscience.
How can this social cost be quantified?
Stereotypes aren't necessarily racist, if you have more mexican immigrants you'll have more taco trucks.
I believe in absolute free trade. There may be some cases and some particular circumstances where tariffs and trade restrictions can help a nation short term, but once you allow that to happen you are opening a can of worms with regards to special interests and regulatory capture.
Brayden Anderson
>My foreign policy is very basic, only act in the best interests of the United States. That's the underlying principle, so sometimes that may mean deposing of someone rotten in another nation if he poses some threat to our interest, sometimes it may mean being isolationist for decades. Neoconservatives seem to want to act in the interest of other nations. I don't think you understand your own political label.
Colton Gray
>how can the social cost be quantified
by the amount of women and children that get raped
Jaxon Garcia
White genocide. Cultural marxism. Your political positions are irrelevant and if you are white, race treason.
sage
Xavier Baker
this is astoundingly accurate
Eli Garcia
10 more minutes people, give me your meatiest, juiciest questions before I have to hit the sack! This neoliberal needs to get the optimal amount of shut eye! You guys can continue duking it out while I'm gone.
Levi Stewart
It objectively does not boost the economy. Only whites contribute. All others drain from whites.
sage
Ryan Sullivan
I like neoliberalism and like how you guys BTFO commies on Reddit. The only wing of it I don't like is the Hillary wing that looks down on rural people. I'm more of a Reagan/Macron guy.
The only way humanity will advance at this rate is if we are united under capitalism. It is inevitable.
Dominic Young
>I simply don't have time to read racial pseudoscience. Which isn't an argument. You clearly don't have an argument to begin with, and all of your "evidence based" policies lack evidence or support (so far). You're nothing but an intellectual hack, and it shows.
Which is exactly my point
Benjamin Young
again, all it does is allow the welfare state to expand and for the state to import new debt holders to prop it up
Gavin Anderson
>I simply don't have time to read racial pseudoscience. Ah there's nothing quite like someone who closes their eyes and plugs their ears when presented with evidence that goes against their beliefs. Learn what 'cognitive dissonance' is
Charles Sanders
Yes, go to sleep. You have accomplished nothing, nor will you by the looks of it.
