Was the fact that we never resolved the 2008 recession and only kicked the can down the road an indicator that the...

Was the fact that we never resolved the 2008 recession and only kicked the can down the road an indicator that the worse is yet to come?

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No, this is just the new normal. The wealth and prosperity from the 50s-70s and 90s were anomalies.

Yes. Usually a currency goes for about 100 years before there's some sort of systemic blowout.

I believe the intention was to have the Jew World Order set up in time for the Federal Reserve System to blow out, but it seems there have been too many miscalculations. So we're in for anything from a (series of) bad corrections to just floating down the abyss into general poverty.

Is that why cryptocurrency is slowly replacing fiat money?

I think crypto is just one of those unexpected developments that nobody quite entirely knows what to do with yet, so players of all sizes are toying around with it to see what happens.

There's a school of thought that the block chain could double as a way to track and trace all transactions. Maybe that could be viable. But that seems to me reactive rather than proactive. The cashless society is part of the long term planning, but I'd guess crypto is popular just because it's relatively more interesting and it represents an attractive way for the little guy to pretend to be a speculator, just like how day trading turned in to a really big thing when the internet became pervasive enough for Joe Average to imagine getting rich sitting at his computer all day.

I think we're fundamentally in a trend of reactive moves as (((they))) do whatever the can think of on the fly to keep the system from falling apart.

Crisis caused on purpose.
We are living beyond YEAR ZERO!
Repeal dodd-frank
Return glasse-steagle
Deport 10million parasites
8yrs of Trump
Problem solved

for a second I thought George was wearing an EU flag

Also, wothout the losses incurred by ww3 against russia, population reduction will have to happen some other way.
China and india have more then double the allowable population.
They are gearing up for war with one another and america is arming both sides.

>crumbs on a blue shirt
>eu flag

Same difference.

No, the economy is doing fine now. There will be no crash anytime soon. Stop being such a downer.

>Two words
>Student debt
Its going to be 2008 all over again X1000. But this time banks wont have antything to back the debts.

Student debt though just basically a way for the government to pay universities to develop the technologies they need for the world of the future while also keeping the high tech bubble going and executing the Kalergi Plan, smashing Christianity and Islam, and extending communist indoctrination.

That bubble won't really matter if they can get the Jew World Order in place before the whole thing blows up. That can just be folded into the big financial reset. They probably won't even need to keep the students in debt as a control mechanism by then, so that bubble would probably be easy to write off if they can pull off a plan like this.

Just wait for student buble to burst

You do realise banks are playing hot-potato, but without a ball it is about with about a trillion dollars.
What do you think the Economy will look like when 1,5 trillion dollars dissappear.
And everybodys saving will wiped clean.

This is acuallty pretty good for us considerig financial conformity is the only thing keeping us docile

We've already got 1-2 quadrillion dollars in outstanding derivatives. Can't let the slate get wiped clean until the slates no longer matter and everybody is in the new cashless society with UBI and depopulation to match currency deflation, or whatever it is they wind up deciding to do.

>we never resolved the 2008 recession
Trump is president. The economy is fine now.

Dude UBI will never come. I know how your populace is just eagerly waiting for communism( UBI ). Dont worry lad Obama had to bail out the banks so give more time for normalization of ideas such as UBI.

It's going to take a miracle to fix decades of fuckery

Your kind is borderline-retarded.

Trump is a miracle. He has been chosen by KeK to MAGA and btfo lefties.

The fact that the dow jones has grown at such an amazing rate the past couple years is in itself probably an indication. That level of growth is not sustainable.

Might be different in Croatia, but leading voices on the left in the US have been rapidly tilting toward unabashedly trying to figure out how to brand communism 2.0 and the UBI meme is spreading faster than you might guess from Sup Forums shill threads.

I think at this point that it's safe to say that it's just a narrative being seeded (like automation) but it's pretty clear that they're trying to run with it to see how far it goes and to prepare people for some such "new idea" now that we can all agree that "capitalism has failed."

It's even in Canada and Finland as we speak for trial runs.

Yep.

Now we just have Universal Basic Income for the 0.001%.

As soon as they try to take this away the whole thing will fall over...

Exactly text-book definition of a buble.
And guess whos gona get the blame for the upcoming massive bust. No one other than our ORANGE president.

Kek we're so poor UBI cant even be a theory. Also we ditched socialism for this quasi-capitalism so that helps

Well we have the Federal Reserve Bank, so we can just borrow whatever we need to keep the bubbles and the UBI going as long as there isn't a massive loss of confidence in the dollar.

look what happened to Sup Forums

>Dollar
>Confident
Saudis ( crypto-jews ) are gearing up for civil war. And you know what that means dollars is going to start dancing.

Also you cant borrow until ad infinitum without HYUGE inflation.

I think we're in for a period of volatility. But one of Trump's first trips was to the ME, garnering unusually positive reactions from SA and the rest. Combined with SA's new leadership, I suspect part of the gambit here was to de-escalate currency warfare. But who knows where all this is going to go.

As long as the USD remains best of the worst or close to it, then international demand for it will backstop its relative value. It's a balancing act for sure. The orientation toward rate hikes from the fed is particularly interesting, since this on the one hand could be seen as a sensible way to get things a little bit closer to normal in a climate of simultaneous potential economic regrowth and potential runaway inflation, or as a way to really tank things hard. It will be interesting to see who Trump appoints to the federal reserve board. Shaky game here as well.

But the way I think about is this. (((They))) are getting closer than ever to Agenda 21 (now Agenda 2030) and do they want to dump the world into chaos now, or do they want to compromise a bit to buy enough time to get the Jew World Order?

You're mistake they dont want chaos. (((They))) need artificial prosperity to control and manipulate. And (((they))) want more control so they need to control the bubles they caused in order so that the proles dont revolt.

I think of it as more along the lines of Kissinger's low-intensity conflict. They want enough chaos to stay in control without facing a collapse of the system.

But I remain in the camp that expects an eventual collapse when the opportunity for a new system to be set up comes around. That might be so slow that people don't notice -- easy transition through population die off, brave new world underclass, inflation, and all that. Or it might be that we see things spiral into more of a world war, or rampant terrorism, or a pandemic, or whatever other sort of global crisis that would mandate resolution through some massive international rewriting of the rules such as we saw attempted after WWI or WWII.

The "kick the board" chaos option is available to all sides at all times.

That was literally the plan all along

The US seems to think it can forever export its inflation and issue infinite IOU dollary doos.

It cant. This mind set ultimately erodes the US status as a super power by hurting its allies.

The best thing imho is that you have do many competing princes in SA that want power and money, and distrupts stability which means ((their))) greed is literally going to end their plans for Global communism.

Yeah and the best thing is that it is in our interest that death, poverty, destruction follow because only then the masses will be able to break away from the (((chains))).

Cryptocurrency is managed by a conglomerate of IT companies.
Your computer assembly companies.
Your chip manufactures
But mostly, your ISP's

It's a currency technically controlled by AT&T and Time Warner, because without internet access, you cannot access Crypto currency.

The chicken will come home to roodt and the results will be glorious.

They can write it off, but it will kill the value of the currency as a reserve currency.
That money also has to come from somewhere, so prices go up.

Remember that technology, while good, is expensive. And it isn't something we consume, like energy, food or minerals. Google isn't worth billions in actual assets, it's pure speculation and gambling.

The point is that a regime change in global currency would allow for writing off a lot of imaginary debts that don't really affect anything at present beyond presenting enormous liabilities and levers for control.

Would it affect you personally if all the Greek denbts got erased? Would it affect individual Greeks? As long as some newer control mechanism were in place to subsume the controlling power of the debt, then no. All it would require is for the powers that be to agree on a new way to remain the powers that be.

This, I suspect, is going to be the real monkey wrench. cf. because unless they manage to use CERN to summon Satan or something then they'll always be jockeying for power amongst themselves rather than acting as an organized global cartel.

We have been visited by the ghost of Keynes, pay respects now

>imaginary debt
There is no imaginary debt, unless you didn't spend it.
If you have a 10k loan and you just left it in the bank, that can be written off without consequence
If you bought a car, you cannot write that off. You can't write off debt, just because you spent it on services and not products. The vast majority of that debt is invested in something with some level of expected return. You would cause a massive chain reaction if you write off debt. That's what hapened in 2008 when debt couldn't be paid fast enough.

Currency is just a component of wealth. At the bare minimum, if you write off everyone's debt, everyone will have a ton more cash and you'll get massive inflation. Add a second layer, and people will start selling off USD's and drop them into the market, causing even more inflation.

You can't just "write off" debt. The value spent has to come from somewhere, either prices or taxes.

>The US seems to think it can forever export its inflation and issue infinite IOU dollary doos.
It can as long as the rest of the complacent nations of the world go right along with them, which they most certainly are.

Eternal fiat currency trading back and forth with the petro-dollar as the base and central banks worldwide buying up assets right and left to prevent an impending crash. This will be everyone's fault in the end.

I'm speaking predominantly of the outstanding derivatives that do little more than make even out balance sheets to make things appear to be technically solvent.

The only thing that would with writing it all off would be the power balances that the various parties gain from having entered into these contracts. None of this debt came from somewhere. It all came out of nowhere. There isn't 1-2 quadrillion dollars worth of value on hand backing it.

What derivatives would you write off?
How would that even help the economy in anyway? I don't think the majority of Government debt is in derivatives, and I don't think Student Debt is a derivative, since people get paid from that money.
And you are correct, the debt didn't come from somewhere. It came from growth and inflation expectations in the future.

yes.

The debt literally came from nowhere, since you have institutions like the Federal Reserve that loan out money out of nowhere at interest. Neither the money nor the interest debt came out of somewhere. And you have institutions like the City of London Corporation, wherein infinite hypothecation is legal, meaning you can have one bar of gold and loan it out 50 times over and suddenly on paper there are 50 bars of gold. 49 of those bars came out of nowhere, now you have 49 gold bars worth of debt that came from nowhere, and you can keep right on going with that as long as you want to make an infinite amount of imaginary wealth all of which except for that original 1 bar of gold came out of nowhere.

So I would take for instance Greece, or even all of the PIIGS. In order to qualify for entrance into the EU per the Maastricht Treaty, Goldman Sachs (primarily) wrote up derivatives (credit default swaps, etc.) to make it look like those countries were within the 3% requirement or whatever it was and then dumped all the debt mainly on DB, and on SocGen to a lesser extent (Germany-France axis being the traditional conception of the Continent).

None of this is mathematically possible to pay back, but, for the most part, the debt just sits on the books of the various world powers, both banks and countries. It would be a complicated mess to try to sort out, but the only way to get rid of it is to write it off. It's not possible to discharge.

Well, yes.
The original loan is printed, but it's still owed. The money is still in circulation.
If you write off the money, you write off the expected interest payments, which kill the initial investment that give the loan it's value in the first place.

You can loan 50 bars of gold, 25 times, but if the loans are not paid off and written, those pieces of paper are now worth 25 times less then a bar of gold. The expected value of that gold bar is the interest rate on the loan.

My contention is that most of those loans are not in circulation. They're just effectively debt swaps sitting on balance sheets to make it look like everybody is solvent.

Take the post-2007 QE for instance. Did that money go in to circulation? No, most of it just went back on deposit to make things look better (in fact a lot of the QE got put back on deposit at the fed at a higher interest rate than it was loaned out from the discount window just to inject more fake money into the TBTF banks lol). Had the QE gone in to spending, Wiemar style, it might have actually juiced the economy by making it effectively backed by production or other value-added activity, but it didn't, which in my opinion is one of the fundamental reasons why, per OP's topic, the 2008 recess was never resolved.

So the notion I'm presenting here is that a cleverly designed debt jubilee among governments and banks could simply erase a very substantial part of these debts, none of which in practical terms could ever be repaid anyway.

International negotiation would be one way to do this. Chaos and reboot would be another. I don't know what form it will eventually take, but I predict that we're going to see the can continue to be kicked down the road until a replacement is in sight, just like Putin #45 will still be ruling Russia until some realistic replacement takes form.

>My contention is that most of those loans are not in circulation.
The interest may be though.
They can't juice the economy with currency, currency doesn't create wealth. All they did was provide a cash backdrop of defaulted loans so they could effectively be written off.
The problem is, that money isn't in circulation, it's all stored in the 0.1%'s accounts, essentially. It creates a huge wealth gap, but if you drop all that loaned currency into the market, you would get massive inflation. If you just delete the currency, you would end up with deflation as banks try to absorb more wealth to back outstanding loans.

Although I fully agree with you. I just don't think writing off anything will solve the underlying problem. We spend more than we make, and our economy isn't growing at the rate required to maintain our debts. It's not just Government, Corporations have massive debt, consumers and real estate all have massive debt.
Anything you do to benefit the indebted just hurts the savers, and anything you do to help the savers just hurts the indebted

Reduced silver content as a percentage of a weight based coin means....

...inflation of the currency! Therefore...

>china and india at war
would be quite the happening, but no way in hell the jews allow it

...let's take advantage of the US dollar privilege and expand the military base of the empire, until the rest of the world realizes that the US is just a house of cards based upon the petrodollar.

>you would end up with deflation
And I continue to think that's where we're headed one way or another (I view hyperinflation as being in the end the same thing as deflation -- asset pricing as denominated by the currency becomes unhinged).

Will it be a soft landing? Will it be a sudden shock? Who will come out the other side as the powers that be?

There's a saying I like that goes something like
>debts that can't be repaid won't be repaid

Savers at least in the US are already losing because interest fails to keep up with inflation. So I would suggest that this is an environment where you'd expect to come out better spending it on assets that would hold value (I recently replaced my old broken car, for instance -- good timing with car prices tanking) or looking to engage to some thoughtful extent in speculation at least temporarily.

I feel bad for the peeps who expect to exist off pensions. They're going to get liquidated by the health care system as a way of writing off the pension debt.

wow that looks familiar...

>paid off my debts
>got some money in savings + retirement
Is there any reason I shouldn't be welcoming deflation? I mean I get it would screw over the young(er) and the poor, but they're fucked no matter what, right?

Nice one!

Your retirement is almost certainly invested in somebody else's debt. So it's anybody's guess what that's going to be worth when you need it. Even if it's not in a government plan, you might expect that it will be seized as part of a bail-in and then replaced with a government annuity (or something under a different name like UBI).

Savings you would want to worry about a bank holiday or currency revaluation to have that stolen from you, as has been repeatedly the case in Argentina, for instance.

The thing with a deflationary collapse is that it fucks up the economy bigly. Look at the mass reallocation of labor and wealth during the Great Depression and how much that sucked for most people. I would say that if you expect we're heading into an era of volatility, then this is a good reason to diversify your savings and assets so that you have options of what you can draw on should other things go in to the shitter. My personal response is something of a prepper mentality so I can ride out hard times short of Mad Max, but what I expect is that I will be relying in large part on my relative youth and flexible skill set to rebuild in some fashion on the other side.

Most of my money is invested in the dow at the moment. I'm not convinced that government seizures are likely short of Mad Max to be honest. I think this country has enough guns and libertarians to spook them out of trying anything like that.

Ever heard of cold storage? If you want you can give bitcoin directly to another person/computer/wallet with an usb or nanoledger.

When it's as easy to seize your paper investments as pushing a button, guns won't stop that. Guns would only come in to play during a Mad Max scenario or anything else close enough to cause people to lose it in a big way.

I don't see fit to prognosticate too much about the dow at the moment. If things go well then I suppose over the long haul it might well track roughly with inflation. But I'm pretty solidly in the camp that thinks its decidedly overvalued and overdue for a nontrivial correction. So how you decide you might or might not want to try to time the market is up to you.

I've got a good chunk of my potential retirement savings in the market and plan to shift more into it if we do see a good hard correction. But I also have other things to fall back on if the market shits the bed by the time I retire.

Why don't you just press Trump to eliminate the debt?

It's doable and the kind of thing he's good at.

I think a step toward that would be to apply bankruptcy and antitrust laws to the TBTF banks.

At present, the existing structure motivates the small banks to have bad debt dumped on them and then taken over by bigger banks, consolidating more power into a shrinking cartel. That's kind of the opposite of what we want.

> tracking transactions
You can already do that by going to any block chain explorer as long as you have the tx number, nocoiner

>inb4 check your ip address
Unless vpns become illegal (cuz the worked so well in Turkey, Egypt, and Venezuela) or proxy cryptos like Monero and Dash become illegal (which totally means people still won't use them cuz when you outlaw something ppl totally don't use it anymore ever), cryptos are here to stay as encrypted media of exchange of the future. Stay poor summerfag

>been playing with cheat codes for 100+ years
>stop using cheat codes cold turkey
>everything will be fine

I fucking WISH. Just to see the look on your faces this time next year I wish we would try it.

I know the tracking is technically possible and will be met by appropriate countermeasures. I was just commenting on folks who think maybe the entire crypto thing was a secret Jewish plot invented for the purposes of tracking.

I think that's a good thought exercise, but not convincing. However, being a guy who works with related technologies, I can understand how bigger players would be looking at how to end run the countermeasures in exploration of crypto as a potential component of the eventual beast system.

Nocoiner bubba fudd detected.
>hurr durr, insert muh isp company controls your internetz meme here
All they control is a series of telephone lines and/ or an array of satellite networks. If they were to all "shut it dooooown!" Sheeple would immediately awake, revolt, and either seize control of these networks or begin constructing their own networks to connect to a hub of some kind like a decentralized hub or a satellite network. Also cold storage and paper wallets can hold your money offline. Btfo summerfag

Read all your posts. Not much of a financial guy but thanks for the great thread

We paid our debt and we could do things like this.

youtube.com/watch?v=yBEo5VnIgTk

There's a lot of freedom to be have if you pay your debts.

Russia and China are well on their way to already creating a national """crypto""". Ofc they forget the whole fucking point of a (((cryptocurrency))) is to a) remain anonymous, which won't happen since they will obviously require a govt id to use it and b) be managed by either proof of work or proof of stake, which won't happen since they will obviously require a miner/ users to file under regulation, if any is to even be open to the public at all and not just mined and controlled purely by govt servers. That being said, how many do you think are really gonna use an un-cryptocurrency which will only be used in those countries vs an actual cryptocurrency which is used everywhere on the planet? Yeah, the beast system is not happening any time soon. The jews lost this one; ask they can do now is make the best of the flow of the current

I think that's a little bit doctrinaire, but I suppose you'd call me a little bit doctrinaire for observing the way that Russia and China have been gambling on both gold reserve and gold mining.

Prior to the advent of bitcoin, some of the most compelling propositions in my opinion were based around the idea of a "basket of currencies" partially backed by gold. Well, BRICS turned out to be little more than a thought experiment (I don't know, but part of me suspects that Russia let it die on the vine because it hasn't been geopolitically expedient to threaten the Dollar hegemony).

So I would not be surprised to see crypto take a role in some general decentralization of currencies. I don't have a lot of direct insight into the genre, but it seems to me to still be going through its growin pains as people continue to figure out what its future role could or should be. I think it's really interesting, and also that the general concept of the block chain could extend to other uses.

>We still dance when Rothschild sings.

none of this would be an issue if the federal reserve was abolished -- JFK made a critical step forward in that regard with executive order 11110 and was assassinated just 2 months later. The order was never carried out under LBJ and pretty much thrown down the congressional memory hole but technically could still be enacted today if Trump so pleased. The time is now to reassign the powers of printing money SOLELY to the US dept of the treasury at 0% interest backed by the value of silver.

RESERVE NOTES ARE A SCAM

One of the things I agree with Webster Tarpley about is that Andrew Jackson made a bit of a mistake by abolishing the Second National Bank without putting in something else to help fill the resulting power vacuum. As a result, as in the current ME situation, you get ad hoc cartels/gangs running the show with no good counterbalance.

Now, I hate the government as much as the next guy, but it's kind of a necessary evil. And one of the things it can do, ideally, is run a national bank to counterbalance the banking cartel, post Andrew Jackson, did exactly the boom/bust cycle thing Andrew Jackson complained about until popular opinion was softened up enough to accept the Federal Reserve Act.

And I propose additionally that the states also set up state-run banks. I'm big on the notion of having a balance of powers.

And who manufactures USBs keys, iPhones and HDD's, you?