Europe Without Christinianity

So I see lots of atheists talking about how Europe would be better off with Christianity, so here is how Europe would be had Christianity never taken off:

1. When the Germanic barbarians ransacked the western Roman Empire there would have been no Catholic Church to preserve any of the Roman knowledge. The reboot of western civilization would have taken much longer, and the only form of paganism to survive would be the Germanic variety because everything else got burned.

2. There would be no US, because there would have been no colonial period. Europe would be as crowded as China and India.

3. There would have been no constitutions based on the principle of negative liberty or natural rights, because those are Christian Concepts. Legal systems would be predicated on positive liberty, or just straight up rule of man.

4. The Germanic burial customs of burning bodies in boats and on altars next to rivers would have continued. Imagine, millions of bodies being burned along the Danube and Rhine rivers every year (see Ganges River).

5. Cities would be full of excrement and litter, because the idea of improving city life for everyone was a uniquely Christian movement in the west. Pagan aristocratic societies inevitably lend themselves toward caste structures, and the ruling classes aren't concerned with the lower classes because the gods ordained for them to be lower and it's their place. Also, the nice houses belonging to the aristocrats can still be nice even if the rest of the city is literally buried in crap.

thanks for this
paganshits btfo

I don't completely disagree but allow me to play Devil's advocate.

1. Many Germanic peoples had already converted to Christianity by the time they ransacked Roman provinces and so retained the Churches therein. In fact, during the sacking of Rome the churches were all left untarnished. Jewish and Muslim Neoplatonists also preserved a lot of knowledge. It wasn't just left to the Christians.
2. Yes, there would have been a colonial period. The political context would just have been different. It was inevitable. It had to do predominately with trade.
3. There eventually would have been constitutions based on natural rights. Conflicts over Constitutional monarchies first arose because nobles simply wanted to exert more authority and pay less. Eventually the rabble took this to mean that they had rights too. In fact, The first constitution of France Nationalized church property which nobody in the church wanted.
4. Who fucking cares? Not all Germanic peoples did that anyway. Christianity is not solely responsible for that ending.
5. Utter bullshit. "Christian" societies are just as guilty of caste structures. It is not unique to anybody. See fucking feudalism.

Christianity was not necessary. An institution to unite people throughout the Roman empire was necessary. That's probably the only reason Constantine advocated it so much. Hence the Council of Nicea

*Nicaea excuse me.

There was no Islam when Rome was destroyed. You could argue that Islam might have preserved some of the knowledge from the Eastern Roman Empire, but their normal MO was to burn libraries, and there would have been no churches in the Byzantine Empire.

I said "Europe without Christianity" meaning the Romans would not have accepted Christianity and it would have remained in the Middle East.

The Germanic people were mostly pagans, and accepted Christianity later.

The French legal system is based around rule of man and positive liberty, even today.

Concepts such as negative liberty and natural rights did not exist as concepts in Europe prior to Christianity. There might be constitutions, but not constitutions geared toward favoring the citizens over the ruling class.

Feudalism was something which persisted in spite of Christianity and not because of it. Feudalism is the oldest and most common form of Indo-European social structure: Those who fight, those who pray, and those who work. The polytheistic Aryans who brought Hinduism to India also had this concept: Brahmins (pray), Kshatriyas (fight), Vaisyas (work). The Dravidian peoples were originally incorporated as a 4th class (Sudras) and more would come about later. But it was in Christian Europe, especially after the Protestant Reformation, where people began to look critically at this social structure.

There was no Islam true but I just sort of generalized there. I was more talking about the people who inhabited areas that would later become part of the Muslim empire as they preserved much of the knowledge for later Muslim Neoplatonists. Yes they burned libraries but specific classical knowledge was still protected. Also, I'm pretty sure that by the reign of Theodosius most Goths and such were already Christianized. Christianity held the process of liberty back in the feudal period and well into the 1700's as it exerted it's will onto the common people for profit. It was part of the reason the reign of the House of Bourbon was so broken. Christianity was not a factor in increasing liberty for common people. It was in fact the rejection of such faith during the Black Plague that instilled in Europeans a sense of personal power to affect change. Christianity may not promote a caste system philosophically, but as an institution it definitely sustained it for the bulk of it's history.

wtf I better embrace cuckianity now

Sudras were farmers and unskilled labourers. Do you think there were no farmers or labourers in the indo-aryan society until they incorporated davidians? There weren't even dravidians in north india

Why does this lil niglet look 45 years old? Look at his hairline.

Atheists don't know is shit about history. This shouldn't surprise you.

Atheism in action, see image:

What good has atheism done for Europe?
Who are those people standing out and welcoming the rapefugees at the train stations.
I'll give you a hint, less than 1% of people in Europe even attend church.

I figured people on Sup Forums would be smarter than the average atheist.

The Vaisyas originally did the farm work, as well as commerce, and labor. When the Sudras were established the Vaisyas became traders and administrators and the farm and manual labor was given to the Sudras.

Yes there were Dravidians in northern India back then. All Indians are mixed, but to varying degrees. Who do you think built Mohenjo-Daro? There is still a Dravidian language pocket in Pakistan today. Also, the Aryans started somewhere far to the North of India, probably in the area of modern day Russia.

> The reboot of western civilization would have taken much longer
reboot of western europe in particular. The Eastern Empire still existed, and was far more advanced than the west until it fell

>there would have been no Catholic Church to preserve any of the Roman knowledge.
Well the Catholics destroyed anything that was heretical to their views at the time, and they destroyed a ton of Arian work that partly led to the popular myth of the "dark ages".

>There would be no US, because there would have been no colonial period. Europe would be as crowded as China and India.
>no explanation for this
hmm

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the Catholic church, but without them there would have been no one in western Europe to preserve Roman information.

That makes no sense man. The church burned countless pagan Roman texts, even of the last pagan Emperor, Julian.

And preserved many more, especially when it came to science and medicine. During the middle ages there was no learning outside fo the Catholic Church. Read history my dude.

They preserved only what they preserved and burned the rest. We would have countless more works of the pagan variety and probably even more of the "heretical" variey. It's always funny when someone says the church preserved knowledge. They did, but it was always a conscious un-zealous monk that did it, not the church as a whole. And if the church never came around, they wouldn't have needed to preserve anything.

>The victor decided what to keep of the vanquished.

So? Show me somewhere this doesn't happen. The NSDAP banned ~1,600 mostly Jewish books for obscenity. This was a mistake. The current German government bans more than 200,000 pieces of literature. America has "freedom of speech" but your career will be ruined at the very minimum, and you'll be destroyed if you are notable, if you even so much as mentioned this.

Paganism was weak and couldn't stand up to the true divinity of Christ.

Why are you getting defensive? All I was saying was they preserved what some friendly, most likely not-all-that-christan priests cared to preserve(like snorri sturluson for example). If Saxo and Bede were like Snorri we'd have a lot more of our history available to us and if you would stop larping for a fucking minute you'd realize that would only be a good thing.

And without the Catholic Church none of it would have been preserved. Were all of my statements really so Byzantine (pun intended) that all of this went completely over your head? I mean, reading is your friend, don't be afraid to do it.

You retard, you burned more Christian works than you did pagan. I'm not even religious, but the church burned so many invaluable sources on both the pagan and Christian side if you would just drop your deus vult bullshit for a fucking second you would see this. It's the same shit the puritans did in england in the 1600s, destroying who knows what of folklore and European history but god damn your'e going to be a retard and think European history isn't important. Just fucking kill yourself dude.

>allow me to play Devil's advocate.
>acts like a catty faggot
take your meds before posting

>I'm not even religious

I feel sorry for you.

I tried to be religious but the bible is way to damn jewish. I tried Christian Identity, but that was to LARPy, then I tried positive Christianity, but that was still too jewish.

Then I found asatru, and I agree with everyone who practices it, but it's just not for me.

>destroyed everthing that is heretical
>texts about a band of Gods living on a mountain, flying around and doing shit is perserved
Hmmmmmmmmmm

>someone 700 years after the arians comes around on an isolated island and has a respect for his pagan ancestors
>decides to preserve this folkish knowledge
HMHMHMHMALSKJDFL;AKJ

But if all that happened Europe still had some sort of religion aka paganism? So not a real not theist Europe, wich i think is impossible.

>When the Germanic barbarians ransacked the western Roman Empire there would have been no Catholic Church to preserve any of the Roman knowledge
absolutely false
literate Romans were still there doing their job regardless of christianity, the habit of writing everything down is a Greco-Roman thing, not a semite aka christian thing

I can't take the rest seriously.

>Christians destroy countless Arian, pagan and Gnostic works
>without Christians there wouldn't be anyone to preserve all the writings the Romans did

What the fucking fuck is this shit?

>without Christianity there would have never been any progress or discovery that happened under Christianity
Now THAT is a textbook non-argument, well done.

>Arian, pagan and Gnostic works
nobody cares about you and your runeshit

Germanic fables like brothers grimm make countless references to Christianity. God, Satan, Goats, Millstones, etc... Read some German Classics. Sure Hans was a bit dark but the whole world was a dark place and you had to raise strong kids in a way that they understand the real dangers of the time. Now adapted to modern society. Where widowed witches (old pagan lady) ate loners in the woods as they were disconnected from society and imperial commerce. Caesars Pope does not lead the true church of Peter. They are the hypocrites of Pauline Gospels with far more pagan idolatry than the germanic barbarians. Tradesmen made figures of all the old gods and sold them in markets. Its why the pope being out merched in recent years by the yeezus beast with gold diamond crusted chains is a travesty to Christianity.

Not without Christianity but without Jews

-No islam
-No Marxism
-No Usury
-no Banksterism
-no cuckstianity

boy you christians never shut up do you?