How do you know murder is wrong if you're an atheist ?

how do you know murder is wrong if you're an atheist ?

>Roman gladiators
>Abortion
>death sentence
>euthanasia
>medical tests on humans
...

If you're an atheist, murder isn't wrong.
No atheists believe that murder is okay.
There is no such thing as an atheist.

you don't.

syllogistic method at its best
I kind of miss your point though

Any atheist with the least bit of time spent trying to ascertain a fundamental axiom upon which he can build an ethic will have to at some point draw a conclusion that is based on some sort of faith that cannot be "proved".

There isn't anything wrong with murder. The only reason to not do it is because of the consequences.

>roman gladiators
In modern day and age would be cool With consent of contestants though
>abortion
I'm still split on this issue so I won't take a stance yet. Closest I can think of right now is "It's wrong and should be avoided at all costs, easily preventable and we should teach kids more about contraception but needs to exist as an option"
>death sentence
Only with undeniable evidence
>euthanasia
Sure, why not? Why would someone be forced to live?
>medical test with humans
If they consent, I see no problem.
You are a retard. Kill yourself.

Atheist here.
I don't murder because I have no urge to.
I want murderers removed from my community because they are a threat to me and everyone I care about.
Even if I held beliefs based on axioms (which I don't), murder wouldn't always be "wrong". There are murders during wars. You can murder in self defense. Murdering somebody on their deathbed because they asked for a mercy killing could be seen as moral.

>mfw the wages of sin is death and I look at whitebirthrates.jpg

because you are taught what is morally right or wrong at a young age allowing you to depart from religion into free thought but still retain those morals.

morals and religion aren't intertwined with one another I don't know why you would think they were.

Atheist morality based on what, exactly? Feels? Prove your feels, fagit.

On common sense, something you don't have so you have to stick to your faggy little book.

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>common sense is good because my feels
>literally subhuman

Shill thread, not only non-political but also harmful for Sup Forums. Sage and report. Also all people for whom murder isn't naturally something wrong should kill themselves before they do some harm to society.

Is murder wrong because god says it wrong?
or is it wrong because it is wrong? because most humans dont want to murder or get murdered?

So if god says murder is wrong, because he says so, this is just subjective and arbitrary

if its wrong because its wrong, not because god says so, then there is moral outside of god, so this whole question does not make sense.

Murder is wrong, because humans are a social species and trust in our tribe was essential for our evolutionary success

>wrong because it is wrong
>literally bird-tier

>If the bible didnt tell me not murder I would be out killing people right now.

This is what Christians actually believe.

maybe retards like you really do need a book of jewish fairy tales to keep you docile.

it's not necessarily wrong

I will wait here while you explain how morality has some sort of existence outside of your feels. Oh right you cannot.

Pro-tip: kys

Actually the ten commandments were given from god to moses in regards of those jews who were loitering in the desert.

Really? This old stupid question? People figured out basic rules of morality long before organized religion ever entered the scene. This is like basic 0th level shit user, read a book sometime.

>duh morality is obvious
>because book
>but not a religion book
>literally a shit for the brain

so the only reason religious people don't kill one another is because of a belief in god?

there is no other reason? If they stopped believing they would immediately start bashing in each others head?

I don't believe this, no one believes this, there are plenty of practical reasons to not murder people

Practical what? Practical how? Is "practicality" your God? What are his standards? Please do explain how life has some teleological meaning that can be proved. plz.i wil wate.

why does morality need to be anything other than common agreed upon ideas and law? also this guy explained it so well a child would understand

"wrong" and "right are as much arbitrary human constructs, as "evil" and "good" are.

>invasion of nations on lies and false flag pretenses, is "right" (coz reasons)
>ensuing insurgency exported to nation's of the instigators of said crimes, is "wrong" (coz reasons)

...From a certain point of view.

>Ill est défendu tuer. Tout meutrier est puni, à moin qui'il n'ait tué en grande campaigne, et au son des trompettes.
--Voltire ("Rights", 1771)

morality is based on human nature, compassion,empathy, golden rule.
however, certain amount of population is dumb af or lacks certain human traits(sycopaths)..
so it's better when they have moral code in simplified form in a little book and are afraid of omnipotent being and shitty afterlife.

No no my friend, the question is: religious people only know murder is wrong because they have to be told not to do it?

Are you saying laws are morality?

practical:

if nothing else, if I go around killing people then other people may just want to kill me, this is not good

also there is empathy, I generally don't want to hurt others because I don't want them to hurt me

not to mention the law, jail etc...

how is this hard to understand

People murder. People rape. Rape and murder are moral because they are part of human nature. Gotcha.

>crusade
>jihad
>inquisition
>protestant vs catholic
>sunni vs shia
>Kill X amount of (insert X infidel) to go to heaven
The real question is how do theist know that murdering other people who have different views is right, after all its god's job to judge not you.

So you're saying life has worth? Why? Based on what? The fact that it exists? Lots of things exist. Is everything that exists good? If so, then murder is good because it exists, right?

i'm saying there is no need for morals to be given by god and that laws at least in the begging were based on commonly held beliefs

If morality is measured by common belief then religions are moral because people believe in them. So what's the problem with religion?

>morals and religion aren't intertwined with one another
Guess you've never studied religions

I exist and I would prefer to continue existing

as mentioned being a murder increases my chance of being murdered myself

that is sound enough logic on its own

what kind of hat do you wear because I want to know what the opposite of a fedora is

>my feels are the ultimate arbiter of reality

Drop in the bucket compared to the glorious atheist states in the 20th century

Do religious people just not have a conscious that tells them,not to be assholes to people? Is all that moot without scripture for them?

>illiterate man wants to make his own morals based on his feels
>super idea

I'm not trying to make the point that religion is bad.
I'm making the point that humans can decide what is right and wrong based on a common understandings and beliefs.

There is no such thing as nazis

How common does an idea have to be before it is moral? Does morality exist on a spectrum like a gender? Is Islam the most moral religion because it has the most adherents?

You ever see animals working and living together without killing one another?

When you talk about morality are you talking about the on the bases of teh abrahamic religion or are you talking about religion as a whole.

>Worships dead jew

Because it violates the NAP

>it's impossible to have a non-religious philosophical framework for ethics
>tacitly admitting that the only reason you don't murder is because you believe in an ancient fairy tale
Wow, religious people really are fucking retarded, aren't they?

>has never seen an ant

There is a little thing called common sense. Its primary reason I am an atheist
That's really funny coming from a self confessed nazi.

That's what you're doing user. You feel you should trust the bibble or whatever nonsense you feel you should trust. You are the epitome of influenced by others

>my god's name is "common sense"

>how do you know murder is wrong if you're an atheist ?
Don't need to believe in God to know right from wrong.

Why do theists need threat of eternal punishment to make them behave?

different groups have different morals because of different cultures and ideas. how are you not getting this? do you think Muslims have different ideas of right and wrong just to make jesus sad?

>People murder. People rape. Rape and murder are moral because they are part of human nature. Gotcha.
that's what I meant by saying
>certain amount of population is dumb af or lacks certain human traits(sycopaths)..

+tribal mentality of us VS them
one can be kind father, but remorseless killer to outsiders of his ingroup

so if you want stable society then you need extend tribe - people with the same religion for example
and you need to tame aggressive people lacking empathy
little book with simplified moral codes and fear of omnipotent just god and hellfire helps all that
but that non-existent god from that book is not source of morality

So morality doesn't exist, then. Moralities exist. Just making sure you were okay with genocide is all. I sure am.

>he acts only morally if there is a god who force him to do so

>grow up in christian country, christian community and christian family
>live by christian values

if not believing in literal god and all that mythological bullshit makes me atheist, so be it
"god" and all 'heaven, satan and hell' part of the story is to enforce the values christianity teaches. you dont have to fall for it to be a christian

Wat


Ok so ants will kill each other much like religious communities did to people the deemed different back in the day but it's quite clear they live and function together.

Pretty sure this guy's LARPing pretty hard

>how do you know murder is wrong if you're an atheist ?
Because someone will murder you if you murder their family.

Some turtles for your effort.

>atheist
Anyone is smart are can never ever be truly an atheist. You can't deny the existence of an omnipotent being but that doesn't mean that can't denounce contradictions and manipulation of the bible, quran and torah, and the book of Scientology or some sheiit

fug forgot ur turtles

>anyone who is smart**
do mind the grammar

Sometimes they do. Look at hitler stalin, for example.

Hory shet

You haven't proven anything, literally all you did was say "HURR ATHEISTS STILL NEED GAWD" with some flowery language.
Each person, as human individuals, have a right to their person, possessions, and thoughts.
We're not a family, we're not a group, we're a society of gathered individuals. You wouldn't enter a new job and start "borrowing" equipment from coworkers because you know you don't have the right to infringe on a person or any extension of a person such as property.

Morality only requires a dictator if you're a moron with no life experience that has no basic reasoning skills. It's wrong to steal and kill because I decide so - and because all the people that try to justify these actions are either mentally ill themselves or they are protecting themselves from the mentally ill (self defense, policing, etc). You should have learned this by the age of 12, any kid can learn this through online gaming and classic playground play. People who fuck with other people and their shit are either retards or agitators.

>Using the term murder instead of killing to start a discussion on morality.

You're a fucking idiot. This thread is full of idiots.

If murder is good, everyone should want to murder and be murdered. When you're not murdering or being murdered you'd be upset. But being murdered prevents you from achieving a social good, more murdering. So that doesn't work.

Abortion. Precisely. Add 45 million white babies to America over the past decades, themselves having kids as well.

Who are (((the ones))) who want abortion?

>being murdered prevents you from achieving a social good, more murdering

*teleports behind you to play games

>pssh, nothin personnel kid

/thread

>how do you know murder is wrong if you're an atheist
Morals are invariably made by men.

Generally I would say that universal objective morality doesn't exist. Or at least I can't think of any legit epistemological argument that could come anywhere close to a proof for that.

The sense of morality most people have developed with a system of social sanctions to allow trust and cooperation in a society.
It can be assumed to be a coproduct of biological altruism (observed in apes but also many other social species such as bats).

It makes a lot of sense to assume that religion and other cultural norms are just built on top of this inherently biological foundation.

This doesn't mean that there wouldn't be any criminals. Firstly, for a person to show 'moral' behaviour in this biological sense doesn't require it to follow any particular social or legal set of laws, but rather to have and typically desire to follow an innert sense of what subjectively is 'right' and what is 'wrong' behaviour. This IS typically the case with most criminals.

Morality is whatever we make it. Secular morality was invented by humans just like religious morality was invented by humans. Even if a deity were to exist it would still be all relative.

*secondly, if this really is a function with a foundation in biology, it is not unreasonable that it can be "broken"/removed in some people (psychopathy)

>Morality is whatever we make it. Secular morality was invented by humans just like religious morality was invented by humans. Even if a deity were to exist it would still be all relative.
This!

Didn't the Romans acquire the concept of Gladiators from Etruscan religious funeral rites?

>You can't deny the existence of an omnipotent being
You can't prove the existence of an omnipotent being.

Irrational beings = non-falsifiable.

you don't have to be religious to know something is wrong or good.
actually, religion did far more harm on humanity than .. if you can call it "good"
have a look into "code of conduct" you silly little religion beta orbitting untermensch.. or should i say jude

This is actually a very simple concept, and I think you'll find it applies to the majority of religious people as well.

We are basically forced to exist in a society with other humans. This means that our choices will be observed by the other humans surrounding us.

The group will always have the power to oppress individuals, so it is to your advantage to show value and stability, rather than parasitic behavior and violence.

Consider the following: If you see someone act with mercy, you expect them to potentially act mercifully in the future. If you see someone lose themselves to their emotions, you expect that behavior in the future.

This, combined with the potential benefits of living in a society, rather than on your own,
leads people to value the society they are a part of.
(needs met, lower environmental risks, rapid completion of labor, skill pool, etc.)

Murdering people makes you look bad. Secretly murdering people has the chance of being found out, which looks REALLY bad. Violating societal trust leads to ostracization, judgement by the group, punishment, etc.

The fact that others are restrained by the same concerns is a part of what makes the system stable.

This is what is referred to as "social contract", and its terms vary from culture to culture.

Also you go to hell

US is Israels military, what's new.