Electoral College

Serious talk here... this used to not be a dem vs republican issue. Americans traditionally hated the electoral college, in 1968 nearly 80% of people polled (back when polls mattered more because the internet wasn't around and people actually answered the phone) said they would approve of an amendment to abolish the EC.

Then Bush won on the EC in 2000, and that number dropped below 60%. Then Trump won, and almost overnight the polls fell, and are now right around 50%. Sometimes below.

The EC is a relic that just became politicized. Nobody who defends it can come up with any coherent justification of it supported by the framers. People who support it don't do it for any other reason than because they think it lets them win.

>inb4 "protects rural votes"

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_1:_Republican_government
congress.gov/resources/display/content/The Federalist Papers
commondreams.org/views/2014/04/24/rightwing-supreme-court-wrong-original-intent-constitution-was-progressive
archive.is/86KYa
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

You can't come up with a coherent reason to get rid of it. Also states should go back to appointing senators.

Go fuck yourself, commie filth.

I don't trust other Americans enough to do a direct popular vote

The system heavily favors "swing votes" because rural votes are often assumed victories. You could win the presidency (even with 100% turn out) with 25-26 or so percent of the vote if you got the right states. That's bull.

The EC was designed for two reasons... to give the "deep state" a way to reject populist candidates (the founders wanted an educated political class to decide) and also to protect the interests of slave states. That way the population of slaves could be counted and used for EC delegate math, but the actual votes of those slaves ignored.

Not a single historic document or account exists which supports the "rural vs urban" argument for the EC... in fact, the creator of the compromise stated he thought that a direct vote was better.

I believe in representation before taxation or otherwise. Seems a good enough reason to ask for direct representation.

And yeah, asking for my vote to count makes me a communist. Representative democracy is the cornerstone of communist utopia unit, da?

Idiot

LA Chicago and NYC have too much crazy liberal groupthink its okay to limit their power.

I'd be fine with abolishing it IF women couldn't vote.

You already get representation for taxation, dipshit. Why don't you go after something useful like ending the income tax, which is not apportioned per the constitution?

Move to somewhere else then. People who hate the fundamental principles of this country should get out.

The problem with the EC is much worse in modern times because of the cap on the number of representatives, so the three free delegates everyone gets matters more.

Also too much vote fraud in certain areas. Cali and Chicago probably had 3 million illegal votes between them alone.

Do I? The British government also already represented the colonists and they sent people to lobby, but the level of representation was unequal.

Even if you add up the entire east coast and cali and had them vote solid dem, it wouldn't be 50% of the population. This is a lame argument anyway, as we live in a country derived from the will of the people.

When people criticize the EC there are two camps.

1. people who hate the idea that faithless electors are even possible

2. people who dislike the allocation of electoral votes

I can see different points of view for the former but the latter has no excuse

>my three gorillion illegal votes

Oy vey

And your solution here is to end the Electoral College? What the fuck is that going to do? The president doesn't assign your taxes in the first place you absolute doddering twat.

Why the fuck are communists always such gigantic morons?

you think they couldn't ask 1000 citiots if they think the electoral college matters and have 80% of them respond" of course not" because they have no idea what it actually does back then?
better off yourself, ASAP

Fuck, switch former and later round

I can't afford to move anywhere else. While I'm stuck here, I'm going to stick to my views.

You are fine with reasoning behind the allocation then? Where one vote can be worth up to 4 times as much as another?

You're the one hating on American fundamental principles shit for brains.

>letting California decide every single one of our elections
Thanks, but no thanks.

Also this. The states have zero representation in the Federation.

The Amerikan union is a compact of individual states not individuals. Fuck off Judio.

Elections don't matter you stupid fucking monkey.GET.THIS.THROUGH.YOUR.FUCKING.AIR.HEADED.SKULL.

See this? A fucking messican knows more than this retard. Trade places!

Only a small minority of colonists actually supported armed insurrection against the Crown you useless flabby Jewcunt. Get fucked.

The president is part of the process, that's like saying that a congressman doesn't assign them because he can't pass the whole thing himself.

The president signs the bills. Did you grow up in the former soviet bloc? Your go too frame of mind is communism and you have no grasp on the subtleties of American government, so it fits.

That wasn't the wording. They were asked if they would support an amendment to eliminate it.

>When a Mexican knows more about America than OP

Only (((liberals))) hate the electoral college
Because it means (((they))) cant spam illegals votes

You still can't form a coherent argument. Are you one of those reddit people? Do you typically debate your talmudvision or perhaps the wallpaper?

No, I'm hating on an American law that goes contrary to the fundamental principle.

If the government passed an amendment that required us all to turn in our guns and chop off our willies, it'd be a fundamental law in our republic because it'd be part of the constitution... but it'd be contrary to our fundamental principles.

>We the people

The states derive power from their people. No state has the ability to nullify the federal government. All states gave up supremacy with that compact.

The cities will endeavour to become de facto super-states until a stochastic social collapse or a rebellion from the arable portions of the land which would be much preferred personally so I can watch them in the live wither and die within 30 nightmare filled days.

THIS IS WHO YOU ARE FUCKING VOTING FOR EVERYTIME, AND YOU ARE FUCKING STUPID ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM RICHER AND LET THEM BOMB THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYTHING WHILE ALSO REDUCING THE IQ OF EVERY MOTHER FUCKER IN AMERICA SO THEY CAN MAKE THE PUBLIC THEIR BITCH AND OWN EVERYTHING!AND YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT FUCKING VOTES!?AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The US has never been a democracy and never will be.

>hurrr voter fraud is prevented by the EC because it means that you can win the presidency with fewer votes in strategic places

Honestly, voter fraud would be helped by the EC

Madison himself stated the superiority of the direct vote. Not my fault you've never read the federalist papers or the transcripts of the convention.

Well, yeah... you come up with that one yourself there genius?

Electing a president automatically means you are a representative government, because you vote him in to represent you. A representative democracy has been the model of the US (and a republic given our state-federal set up) for our entire history.

No one is claiming we are a democracy. Just that our representatives should be chosen democratically.

Ah, well you've done a fine job summarizing Madison's position so far, haven't you? Why did it take you this long to even mention it?

And it's true that while I did get a copy of the federalist papers last Christmas I haven't read through it yet. But that doesn't really present an argument that has anything to do with anything. Are you perpetually drunk?

All states have the ability to nullify the Federal government. The states are given power by the people who have chosen to specifically live within its borders not to be ruled by some socially disconnected coastal kike infested megalopolises whose self-serving druthers are irrelevant anywhere but there. Die Jew die. Sooner the better and the more painfully the best.

Madison was a cunt
So are you
You jews really like trying to take away peoples rights and opinions, but you havent convinced anyone here to give up theirs

Worry not they've overplayed their hand and will all leave your country or wind chime.

Fuck you subverting shill. Claims the Deep State supports the EC system somewhere among his posts. The lamest attempt at share blue trickery I've seen in a day or two. If all you fags fall for one iota of what this charlatan writes, we're done as a race, culture and civilization. Bernie bro at best, Sorosbot at worst. GTFO.
SAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>Not a single historic document or account exists which supports the "rural vs urban" argument for the EC... in fact, the creator of the compromise stated he thought that a direct vote was better.

I already mentioned Madison, he created the compromise. Not my fault you didn't know that. If I had said the first president agreed with me initially and then later stated that Washington did, would you have been angry about that too?

The federalist papers outline the stated purpose of the EC, so they have a lot to do with the "anything" we are talking about. The underlying reasoning (more truthful than the stated, given how Madison felt when putting pen to paper) are found in the transcripts of the convention itself.

If I was perpetually drunk, I'd still vomit up better argument than you.

Tell us about Untermensch again.

So what's the argument? That I'm vomit? Fine, I submit! We must do away with the EC!

were

It is not called the United States of California/Texas/new York. Why should they dictate for the entire country because they have messed up immigration and bus around illegals to vote without voter ID laws.

It's scattershot Jewing everywhere looking for something to stick.

You basically you're saying "fuck you, hicks" to all the Americans living outside of LA, Chicago, and NewYork?

We had a war already to prove they couldn't, and Jackson had his own crisis to prove that as well. State nullification is a myth used by Americans (and Mexicans too I guess?) who don't know their history.

Of course the EC is supported by the Deep state, it lets insider politicians stop any president from being elected if they truly don't want them there.

Did you really think they'd stay in power long if it was so easy for you to peel back the curtain?

So Madison argued that deep state needs eternal rule, and the key to it was that the EC would stop all the plebs from being able to pull back the curtain?

How do I subscribe to your newsletter?

>wonders how many polled in 1968 were on Quaaludes, lsd, and/or angel dust
Actually, YOU need to move somewhere else. It is well documented that the founding fathers created this voting system to be like no other...YOU MOVE

RIght, so why are you fighting for them if you don't want their will carried out? We all know what will happen if EC is abolished. Bye bye America. I appreciate the measured response but get bent.

No, that's the point of the Senate. The senate was specifically designed to give rural states more power.

>Presenting arguments rooted in the federalist papers and transcripts
>not a single argument against me that has anything to do with the constitution, or any backing with the writings of the founders
>LOL JEWS RIGHT?

Wew

>this used to not be a dem vs republican issue.

But now it is. If you think the rest of us are just going to hand everything over to New York and California without a fight, you've got another thing coming.

Stop contriving fact with outcomes of fortune you miserable rat faced kike. Every state disavows the Federal government and there is no legal Federal government.

>The senate was specifically designed to give rural states more power.
They were all rural at the time, butt plunger. What the fuck is wrong with you?

babypenisesaredelish.com

You guys realize it doesn't make a difference right? If a senator could win election via popular vote in their state, and they had to be appointed by the state legislature from now on, it wouldn't make a difference cause state legislators are elected by popular vote. And if a senator attarcks enough votes to win the popular vote, then those same voters more than likely vote for state legislators like the senator who will continue to appoint them and those like them anyway. The 17th amendment only came about as an illusion of democracy. The United States of America is by its own definition a republic, not a direct democracy. And states can't not have a republican form of government because it's actually required as per Article 4 of the Constitution.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Four_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Clause_1:_Republican_government

>Americans traditionally hated the electoral college
>1968
Immigrants hate it because they dont understand the concept of America

You can change it.
All you have to do is convince the red states to become irrelevant.
Good luck with that.

It was designed to protect against the tyranny of the majority.The system is WAI.

No, he argued that he preferred the direct vote, but he brokered a compromise (3/5ths and the EC) to keep the slave states at the table.

Then in the federalist papers it was outlined that the EC was also a check against populist candidates.

The blog I run can be found here.
>congress.gov/resources/display/content/The Federalist Papers

The deep state wants the EC though. It's a literal body of governmental insiders who can say "fuck you" to the entire American people.

It's literally in their job description as a member of the electoral college.

...by your transparently evasive whingeing kike peculiarist when it suits you standards only whites should be new citizens of Amerika. You are not white so get out of there Chaim.

>You can't come up with a coherent reason to get rid of it. Also states should go back to appointing senators.
I would go even farther and eliminate the house

Who are you an aide/gopher to/for faggot?

And if every person living in a state disavows the state government then there is no legal federal government. And if every human magically turns into a frog, mankind no longer exists.

Magical theoreticals are great and all, but outcomes matter. Nullification is not a right or mechanism in our current system.

So now we're on to slave states? This is getting good. Why didn't Lincoln just abolish the EC when he was launching the civil war to free the slaves?

No it wasn't, that was the Senate.

I'd have a hard time convincing them, if the actual EC is this misunderstood (given by the high level thought going on in this thread)

America is a federal nation, a more proportional system would lead to tyranny by majority, ignoring the less populated states

Either lying or ill-informed that the deep state wants the EC. the deep state works happily for the globalist agenda, and a globalist and political prostitute like Hillary Clinton was a very loud voice against the EC

>no one is claiming

>muh popular vote

That's not the point of the senate you retard. Holy hell.

Mental Masturbaton Not Changing. You need 2/3 of Congress and 2/3 of the states to vote vote a change. The rest of the country is not going to cede all power to NY and Cali

You've just elastically counter-signaled yourself. You read like some Great Books Programme golem. Leo Strauss was a faggot but pales next to your insipid gibbering.

>I watched CPG Grey's video so fuck your republic
The Electoral College locks out the Left. That's what matters.

I know....and the dumbdick is trying to now claim he knows the job description of the deep state, wew! Lefty nutcases make things up as they go along.

I literally outlined it in my second post. It's not something we just hopped onto.

1) Lincoln can't unilaterally pass an amendment
2) The EC became much more of a problem in the 1900s after the number of people in the house was capped. Representation was more equal prior. (so it wasn't a problem)
3) Slavery was supported in the compromise with the 3/5ths provision, and the EC. One was eliminated and the other one (which wasn't explicitly racist) was not touched

>implying democracy is any good to start with
you dumb mongrelized merry tard

Now..now...this faggot would want forced busing in rural areas where children would spend 14 hours a day between busing and school to experience cultural enrichment...they can sleep later.

>the political system has been politicized !!!!!
you lost me

Lincoln raped the Constitution to force through 3 amendments. He could have easily done it to remove the EC too if he wanted to.

Wait wait wait. You're not even going to refute my obvious bait about Lincoln launching the civil war to free the slaves?

Oh my lord.

Did Lincoln unilaterally pass an amendment to start the war and free the slaves?

So you believe the deep state wanted Trump rather than Hillary? Everybodies actions over the past 7 months would indicate otherwise would you say?

>the 3/5ths provision, and the EC. One was eliminated and the other one (which wasn't explicitly racist) was not touched

Magical theoreticals are great and all, but outcomes matter.

He's twisting his nipples and giggling like a girl reading this....it makes his Rebbe happy in the lap.

Actually it is. The electoral college is the give weight to less populated states in presidential elections instead of letting states like California and New York decide all the time.
commondreams.org/views/2014/04/24/rightwing-supreme-court-wrong-original-intent-constitution-was-progressive
Liberal presentation style but it's historically accurate.

archive.is/86KYa

What is the point of the Senate then boy?

The reason we have a Senate (as part of our bicameral legislature) is due to an argument the framers had. Some wanted representation entirely based on population. They got the House created in this compromise.

Others wanted the States to have representation regardless of how rural or small they were, to represent their sovereign status. They got the Senate in this compromise.

Oh sure, the deep state totally would love to get rid of unaccountable power to chose who is President. I'm making unreasonable guesses here. Nutcase that I am.

You understand that the senate and the EC are two different things, don't you? And that California didn't exist when the constitution was being designed?

>Representation was more equal prior. (so it wasn't a problem)
not really because the senate has grown at an even smaller rate
The house has more of an influence on the EC now than it did when the country was founded

Lincoln fought for the Union, he was willing to let slavery exist if need be.

The confederate states fought for the preservation of slavery.

I didn't have time to respond to everything stupid you said, so I just let it slide to keep the focus on the EC. My mistake.

The House is supposed to represent the people, the Senate is supposed to represent the states.

>to chose who is President

A or B some choice. Fuck off.

The Senate is part of how we calculate votes in the EC

The problem is delegates and the fact you don't actually vote for candidates people vote on your behalf, like yeah here our MPs do the same for our laws but your electors make it too complex. The separation of the legislature (congress) and the executive (presidency) leads to deadlock, i.e why Obama couldn't control guns and why trump can't get through congress on healthcare
Wtf are you on about, I'm not saying I agree with American system but it has its good points and bad points, just pointing em out señor

The house was to give more representation to large states
This kills federalism

No no no. Apparently now we're discussing the senate and slavery, and that's why we need to get rid of the EC.

This thread is magic. I would like to invite all of you to the next constitutional convention.

The problems with the EC were less apparent then, and Lincoln only presided over the passage of one (the 13th). He was kinda dead when the others (reconstruction amendments) got rolling.

>leads to deadlock
good
> Obama couldn't control guns
SHALL
>why trump can't get through congress on healthcare
That is because there are too many leftists in the senate

Your mistake is a congenital curse derived from a generously shmutsi whore mother and a zero discipline premature ejaculating shpilke'd father. It transcends your physical boundaries.

Yes, I was pointing out the difference as you said the point of the Senate was not due to tyranny of the majority while arguing with someone about the EC.
Each state has as many electors as it has members in the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives combined population.

well atleast we agree on something...and how exactly is the EC an "unaccountable power" when it is a process? how are the individual states not accountable?

Presidential Candidates would ignore about 30 of the states and those states would be forgotten if you removed the electoral college.

Democrats would love making it just based off shear numbers. The left ideology is a disease that spreads and created a welfare state which prohibits people from breaking out of the poverty line and the school systems fail making people mindless ants.

If it was up to people like hillary clinton. the vote wouldn't even matter and it would be based off a system where the elites choose the leader.

Lefties are fucking filthy. They are either corrupt and very smart or fucking retarded/oblivious.

>next constitutional convention.

Held in West Jerusalem....no Amerikans needed to attend.

Look at all these demotist weenies arguing about which slight variation of democracy is better.

Monarchists laugh in your face. Peasants will never be able to reproduce the great empires of Europe.