Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care Ben says that "But U.S. is #1 in Cancer Survival" This is a disgusting strawman argument by Ben Shapiro and anyone who defends it is a retard who does not even care about the actual arguments that are being made.
There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"
Honestly anyone who legit thinks Ben Shapiro won the debate did not actually follow the arguments that were being made
Cenk held his own, I expected Shapiro would BTFO him easily but it turned out pretty equal and boring in the end.
Now watching Ana Kasparian vs Ann Coulter.
Michael Jenkins
Omg I remember taht. he did a strawman or whatever. Yeah the muslim guy totally won I guess.
Ryan Ortiz
#37 in healthcare is disingenuous. America scores poorly due to lack of accessibility, but in treatment options and outcomes we are first class.
Colton Lee
>taking manlets seriously
I seriously hope you guys don't do this
Henry Ramirez
>gives counter points guis its obviosssly not tru he no win
Alexander Russell
There wasn't a single time in the whole debate where Shapiro "BTFO" him like he did that transgender chick, it's all clickbait.
Jayden Ortiz
>lack of accessibility But that was exactly Cenk's point
Charles Cruz
What does it mean when your healthcare is bad but most of the people with cancer survive?
Aiden Nguyen
Poor people don't deserve good things. If they did they wouldn't be poor.
Brody Price
wew lad.
We give Benji so much shit for being a manlet that I never stop to think if this Turkroach was one too...
Brayden Scott
I didn't actually watch the debate; I don't care about Semitic manlets.
Aaron Torres
No, Cenks "point" was that the US is #37 in healthcare without clarifying what he meant so that retards like you would think "Durr nuboor thurdy sefen? That bad!". Number 37 by what metric? "In healthcare" is not a metric and as was typical of most of his "arguments" Cenk stayed away from specifics.
Evan Gonzalez
>lowest HIV rate >highest cancer survival
seriously what the fuck else do you want? UH BAD HEALTHCARE cause the doctors can't treat every dipshit that comes in with the sniffles? shove it up your ass retard
Isaiah Gonzalez
but he did, both by twisting the prostitute argument and by calling him out on Sanders ass licking
Jeremiah Adams
>so that retards like you Cute since both Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means. Nice way to insult yourself just to appear superior.
Rankings in healthcare mean measuring how much the medical care provides to further the health of the population. Ben is right that US health care has the highest standart. The reason that it ranks so low is that the high standart care is withheld from such a large group of the population.
Adrian Miller
I was legit thinking the same thing during the debate. But ben won.. jews always win in the end
Jordan Davis
Of course a jew like Shapiro would lie through his teeth.
Nolan Martin
Where can i watch the debate?
Gabriel Martin
kill yourself shill rat
Caleb Bailey
Cenk didn't say "Higher taxes don't necessarily mean a weaker economy", he was arguing that higher taxes don't slow growth by stating that the US had record growth at a time when taxes were their highest. He completely ignored other factors (that Ben pointed out and he continued to ignore, like every point Ben made and the roach had no response to) and went with "These two things happenrd at the same time therefore one had no negative impact on the other." Retardation at its finest and retards like you eat it up because you're too stupid to understand logic.
Carson Martinez
>Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means. Really? You know what they all thought even though not a single one gave you any such idication?
Like every point he tried to make, Cenk kept repeating a vague line without any specificsbecause it sounds good so that >retards like you would mindlessly cheer. It's typical of the left and Cenk specifically in this debate. >Durr you say you believe in small government but you want to tell a woman what to do with her uterus!!! I bet you were cheering with the audience on that one, too.
Jeremiah Reed
And this is disingenuous because pretty much any American can get health insurance if they wish. Low income people and retirees can get Medicaid/Medicare from the government. Others can either get insurance from their employer (the majority), or through Obamacare. People can also pay out of pocket, which is often quite cheap if they negotiate with a provider. Failing that, you can always go to an emergency room and not pay, which is what illegals do all over the damn place.
There really isn't any excuse not to get health care in the US if you need it. We do have a fair number of uninsured people, though the metric is usually inflated with people who didn't have health care for a couple weeks while they were changing jobs. The rest is mostly young people who don't have huge health risks, and decide not to spend the money - which is their right as far as I'm concerned.
Isaac Sullivan
#1 in health care quality #6 000 000 in the UN ranking for diversity quota fullfillment and cultural enrichment
AMERICA BLOWN THE FUCK OUT BY LE BASED GENOCIDE DENYING TURK
Parker Morales
Nice switching the subject. Now I don't know what all the audience members think but Ben picked it up and you're the one complaining about it so here we are.
>I bet you were cheering with the audience on that one, too Kekekek. You must be quite the man if you can't admit that Shapiro brought an unrelated number into it without your entire worldview breaking apart.
Yeah but they can get worse health care than the european counterparts for a higher amount of money. That's why US ranks 37th.
>The rest is mostly young people who don't have huge health risks, and decide not to spend the money - which is their right as far as I'm concerned I agree.
Samuel Cox
>U.S. is number 37
>Literally every wealth person travels there for health care
>Nearly all medical breakthroughs come from the U.S.
Explain please.
Christopher Robinson
They rank highest in quality and not highest in accessibility
Daniel King
And all your second paragraph does is highlight just what a dishonest tactic Cenk is using. Even you, who proclaim to know just what he meant, can't even get all the details right and then go on to agree that Shapiro point out a way that US healthcare is ranked first. When Cenk says "US healthcare is number 37 in the world" he is obfuscating a lot of details, as proven by the fact that Shapiro could make the unqualified statement "The US is number 1 in healthcare" and be just as correct by your standard and own admission. The fact that you don't see how Cenks use of vague language is targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets.
Bentley Baker
He didn't refute Ben's point and neither does being number 37 due to access.
Ben's point, stated at the outset, is that you get to pick two of the three;
>Affordability >Universiality >Quality
The U.S. has shit Universiality AND affordability (Ben's argument is that is because they don't have a truly free market - but I don't personally believe that), but they indisputably have the highest quality.
The U.S. health care system is similar to much the rest of their society, which is very different from other developed nations - They have a very dog eat dog set up. If you're wealthy, you're getting the best of the best. If you're poor, you're kind of fucked.
Gavin Bailey
>US citizens can notnhave treatment without ruining their lifes forever.
?
Michael Lopez
Precisely.
I mean, I'm going to sound like a complete cunt here - But I'm sort of glad the U.S. has the system they do, even if it fucks a lot of poor people. The costs help pay for R&D which eventually flow down to my nation with affordable health care.
It's not really dishonest. They're talking across each other. Cenk is talking, ultimately, about access and Ben is talking, ultimately, about quality. Ben wants to say you simply can't have quality with any kind of easy access, and Cenk is saying you can have top quality + access for all.
Samuel Rogers
>When Cenk says "US healthcare is number 37 in the world" he is obfuscating a lot of details, as proven by the fact that Shapiro could make the unqualified statement "The US is number 1 in healthcare" and be just as correct by your standard and own admission. One was in general and one was to a specific field i.e. cancer surcical
>The fact that you don't see how Cenks use of vague language is targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets No the measure how a countries healthcare improves the overall health of the population is a common measure. That you never heard of it before is not my fault.
>targeted to morons is how I know you are one of the people it targets Well what that makes that you who didn't understand it
Levi Price
Not really.
Like a lot of things in America the U.S. places A LOT of personal responsibility on their citizens.
If you go to University and get a 150,000 dollar loan to study Speech and Drama, they don't have government media jobs for you to fail into.
You're expected to use your common sense and choose a profitable subject. When you finish school you're expected to buy health insurance when you're young and healthy. And so on.
It's part of what makes their society tough, but also successful.
Luke Watson
Yeah I agree.
>lack of accessibility >But that was exactly Cenk's point >The U.S. has shit Universiality AND affordability So you agree with me?
Leo Robinson
Its not a strawmam, it's simply pointing out the flaws in the thinking.
If the economy was booming in the 50s and it was simply because of high taxes, then by increasing it to the extreme, you would therefore see the economy booming. Right? By pointing this out, he force Cenk to admit that the high tax rate was not the only factor in why the economy was booming.
The healthcare comment was disingenuous from Cenk, and his comment on "number 1 in cancer survival", was to point out a hole in Cenks argument. If USA is number 37, how can they be number 1 in cancer survival?
It wasn't about instigating a "gotcha" comment, it was about getting Cenk to admit that his argument is flawed.
Tyler Rodriguez
>switch the subject What? I said Cenk used vague undetailed arguments. You tried to counter that by claiming to know what Ben and the whole audience thought.
>unrelated number It's not unrelated. It perfectly demonstrates how the entirely unqualified "Number 37" argument is by providing a (qualified) number 1. But if all people hear is "37th in the world" without any context or detail they're inclined to just think "Hurr 37 bad" like you did. If they're given any detail they might actually think or even disagree, so Cenk opted to just repeat "37,37,37!!!"
Colton Ross
Agree with you on what?
He didn't actually refute Ben's point - You can't have "quality" plus universialtiy and affordability.
You can have "good enough" and "affordable enough" or whatever mixture you want.
Like I said - They're both talking across each other.
>Cenk: We have bad accessibility!
>Ben: We have good quality!
I mean, they're two different things.
Owen Harris
You don't even have to be poor to get overwhelmed by medical costs in the US.
Evan Hill
The problem is that neither one wants to openly state what they know to be true (well Ben does to a degree), basically that;
>Quality will drop, but accessibility will increase
>Quality will remain, but some poor cunts are gonna die
They both have completely valid points and completely valid criticisms.
David Bell
Shapiro was making the cancer survival comment as part of a larger argument about rationing. He's not saying America has/had the best healthcare overall.
Jack Wright
>But I'm sort of glad the U.S. has the system they do, even if it fucks a lot of poor people. The costs help pay for R&D which eventually flow down to my nation with affordable health care. Yeah it sounds like we're on the same page. I'm not against a free market system. And the argument would then be that a free market system will overtime grant more accessibility simply to get more customers. Ben could also have pointed out that life saving measures are taken without regard to ensurance to let Cenks "to save lives" argument run into the ground. He just got a bit caught up here because he used the cancer argument so often on his podcast
The argument started with OP and me pointing out Ben moved goalposts with bringing the cancerrate and then some partisan all or nothing newfriend from youknowwhere got buttflustered and started ranting about how I cheer for theyoungturks because of that
all I'm saying is name one country with better medical care. It's like ranking the Warriors in the NBA #16 just because not everyone can afford to attend the games..
Andrew Hall
>What? I said Cenk used vague undetailed arguments. You tried to counter that by claiming to know what Ben and the whole audience thought No I said the healthcare ranking is a common measure which is why Ben didn't object to it's use.
>It's not unrelated. It perfectly demonstrates how the entirely unqualified "Number 37" argument is by providing a (qualified) number 1. If you misunderstood Ben's argument that again is on you not anybody else.
Eli Scott
Which is why you can tell the iq of this nation is slipping because these dumb faggots can't think for themselves, and want to blame their problem on the race that settled this great nation
Landon Long
Poor OR unprepared. Like I said - They have a large onus on personal responsibility. I have U.S. family, and the same way your parents might help you save up for your first car, they were helping set up their kids up to purchase affordable health insurance.
If you plan ahead and are sensible, you won't be overwhelmed (barring bad luck).
That's just the way their country is, and it's got it's advantages and it has it's huge downsides too.
They have this in all aspects of their culture, from firearms ownership to speech laws. You're free to make valid and worthy criticisms of ideologies that may threaten your well being - You're also free to go and picket and a dead soldiers funeral.
Likewise you can whip out your handgun and shoot dead a wild negro attacker - but it's a lot easier for an autist cunt to nick his mums rifle and shoot up a school.
David Morales
I don't think he was necessarily moving goalposts, so much as saying that, yeah, certain aspects are terrible, but the trade off is that other aspects are exceptional.
I'm not even in favor personally of what Ben advocates in my own country, though I completely see the reason why it's "good".
I mean, whites are just as responsible for this as anyone else - you can come and visit Europe or Ausfailia, and you'll find legions of white bois who are obsessed with the government teat.
Bentley Long
>One was in general and one was to a specific Exactly. One was vague and had no specifics. Cenk didn't bother to mention in any way where 37 comes from or how it's measured because that would invlove getting into specifics that are a lot harder to argue than "37 bad!"
>That you never heard of it before is not my fault. No but the facts that you assumed I haven't and are completely missing the point that he's being intentionally vague are your fault.
Jose Rivera
Yes, higher taxes do mean a weaker economy and you can figure this out a priori, as Ben was demonstrating. Economics is not empirical, guiz.
Jeremiah Morales
>ruining thier lives forever That's not really how it works, you seek to be getting your info from Michael Moore. America has plenty of ways to get out of debt. Not to mention most poor people just waltz into the hospital for free drugs and give fake names anyways.
Grayson Smith
Taking an argument to the extreme is often a good way of discrediting it. Strawmen aren't always bad. Most of the time they are just logical. >If I make more money I can afford more things Always true >Higher taxes makes the economy boom It's an argument so stupid it deserves a strawman to discredit it. Why the fuck would this be the case? Because it happened before? Well, that was because the county was 90% white. It's like when people talk about socialism in scandinavia and how it worked there so it should work anywhere. Scandinavian people are the best people in the world. You can impliment any system here and it would work as long as we are only Scandinavians. Too bad most of us don't know this and are hell bent on commiting mass suicide by having our women work instead of having babies.
Hunter Butler
Ben really let his Israeli flag fly on the money on politics section.
Why shouldn't the Jew be able to fund their preferred candidates and create independent ads in favor of positions that advantage them to an infinite degree? What could go wrong???
Dominic Martinez
Go back to Sup Forums you colossal cocksucking tripfag.
Logan Harris
So what are you arguing you anti American kike? That access to healthcare is weak? That cancer survival isn't there? What? Oh wait it another 1 post by this kike threads.
Jack Reed
>Cute since both Shapiro and me as the rest of the audience picked up what he means. Your words, shit-for-brains. >If you misunderstood Ben's argument that again is on you not anybody else. Ironic considering you completely ignored the actual point. No argument?
Gabriel Flores
Who the fuck cares about a subhuman roach and some manlet kike?
Benjamin Thompson
You're bitching over the fact that two political scientists discussed a widely agreed upon measure of global healthcare rankings literally provided by the fucking UN, and hasn't changed substantially in 17 years.
Ben didn't contest it because he knew exactly where it came from. Anyone who had done even a slight amount of cursory research on the topic would recognize it. It is not the speaker's fucking fault that you are not educated enough to understand him.
You're asking people with graduate degrees to tone it down to a level a dumb frogposter can understand. Kill yourself.
Josiah Gutierrez
God damned leech. Your stupid socialistic health care countries wouldn't have quality universal care without the US pitching in. Europe and Anglican countries need to desocialize their countries' medicine so they can finance R&D as well, and not leave that burden solely on the US.
Bentley Hughes
I am poor and I deserve your boipussy.
Logan Allen
(((Ben))) is wrong. He is a stupid, evil, parasitical Jew.
Australia's health system is the best in the world. Accessibility and better quality than the US. Literally no down sides.
Eli Perry
There's never been anyone more clearly controlled opposition than Ben Shapiro.
David Parker
He mentioned libertarian values, yet Cenk pointed out his neocon tendencies when asked about supporting Iraq war.
Christian Stewart
Ben reminds me of the typical rich kid who sat in the front row in classes, always commenting on shit, with his pseudo-witty right wing straw men that he got from his rich daddy. Personally I don't know why this guy is considered a serious intellectual, his cocky high pitched voice, like his briefs were crushing his balls, is thoroughly annoying, and his smug grin even makes hem the perfect punching bag.
Isaac Garcia
Cenk destroyed Shapiro, it was obvious it was always going to happen to me. Shapiro is a nerdy beta and Cenk is large, booming former jock.
Jordan Peterson
>Implying Chunk actually made any arguments. (((Shapiro))) obliterated Chunk at every turn.
Kevin Young
Yep. A truly evil, subversive kike.
Aaron Thomas
>we are first class
Deliberately confusing choice of words to make it sound like you are actually first, "first class" is meaningless.
William Roberts
>There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"
I think you missed the fact that Ben simply asked the question and multiple times asked Cenk to answer it and Cenk completely dodged it and went on some retarded small government vs big government rant
Parker Ortiz
>cenk >arguments lmao. Turk thought he was on his show half the time.
Benjamin Cruz
>shills went from "Cenk wins!" to "Well, they both held their own" The whole debate is now on youtube, retards. Cenk was spilling sphagetti all over the place while trying to avoid Shapiro's points. >that silence when Cenk was trying to get USA chants going again.
Jace Rivera
uhmm, actually sweetie, there's this beautiful thing now called GOOGLE, maybe you should just LOOK IT UP
Elijah Parker
Niggers and spics are disproportionately responsible for that #37
Jackson Evans
>He didn't actually refute Ben's point - You can't have "quality" plus universialtiy and affordability.
You really have drunk the Jew kool-aid, haven't you mate?
Get the fuck out of my country. I'm serious. Go fuck right off to Somalia or the US or some other shit hole. We have no use for capitalist Jew loving cucks like you herre.
Kevin Hill
turks are fucking small dude, you never knew that?
Ethan Hill
>There are other examples of disgusting strawman arguments by Ben during this debate, like when Cenk said "Higher taxes don't essentially mean weaker economy" and Ben responded with "So why wouldn't raise the taxes to 100%?"
How is that a straw-man argument?
He is asking a question of principle. Cenk claimed that raising taxes improves the economy, Ben asked what the limit could be.
Then Cenk backpeddled on his 92% remark and lost his words. The crowd noticed the 1-2 second silence and boo-ed.
Cameron Rodriguez
>LE BASED GENOCIDE DENYING TURK Explain this. Did the Turk cause an oy vey I'm unaware of?
Jonathan Brown
we did that years ago and now we've been the number one of Europe for years
for some reason no one has caught on yet though, it's retarded that this debate still exists
Lucas Cooper
do you know where the term "Young Turks" comes from?
Andrew Wright
Would you respond to a pointless strawman like that? The question is just ridiculous on its face.
You didn't even get 100% tax rates in the USSR. Ben was flailing at that point.
Carson Jackson
read cenk was a fucking mess and if you think otherwise you're clearly biased and it doesn't matter what i post here it won't change your mind anyway
Colton Reed
Have fun watching Ana use the literally can't even argument
Jeremiah Jackson
>Cenk argues that U.S. is #37 in world health-care
Arbitrary ranking based on the amount of socialized health care.
>Ben says that "But U.S. is #1 in Cancer Survival"
Actual statistic based on the result of health care.
Joshua Foster
Not an argument.
Adrian Gomez
How about stabilized pricing for procedures and medicine, instead of running it like a racket? There's no reason for costs to be arbitrarily set at absurd extortionist levels in the US compared to the rest of the western world. Anyone who doesn't understand that lobbying is the reason politicians are paralyzed on using a common sense approach to normalizing healthcare costs through short term price fixing is an unwitting shill for moneyed interests, after having been bombarded with right-wing messaging about mmuh job creators and mmuhh gubmint killing industry durr regulations bad
Why even bother arguing this point in this kewlservative tweenager echo chamber
Jose Harris
chunky yogurt is almost as pathetic as his mindless acolytes
Angel Wright
Yeah but you still have regulated competition. Not good in the long term.
Oliver Bell
we can do better and our capitalistic parties are trying to improve it, and yet we're still number one of the entire fucking continent
i mean, that's pretty telling
Jaxson Turner
If you have to fish for a specific figure as a "gotcha," you're not exactly winning.
Obviously raising taxes doesn't improve the economy, but careful application of funds raised by taxation might. If you have more to spend, you may get more done. Maybe.
Obviously if the government then turns around and puts the money into defense you might not get as much out of it as only one sector gets the boost as opposed to the overall boon you may receive from infrastructure spending.
It was an incomplete statement from Cenk at best, but a childish attempt to discredit the opponent with an absurd question from Ben.
Cooper Torres
Chunky Yogurt could defend the proposition that 2+2=5 for 5 hours straight 'OF COOOOURRSE 2+2=5' 'right so you try to add 2 and 2 and you get 4, bad day for you' 'well you see republicans try to get you with this trickle down notion that's why they think 2+2=5' 'shut up audience stop booing me why isn't this as easy to get my way here as it is on my show'
Parker Morgan
Of course you didn't even get 100% rate in the USSR because high tax rates destroy the economy.
You're arguing against Cenk at this point and you don't even realise it.
It was the "why not 100%" question that made Cenk lose it.
Gavin Flores
I read the normal text in Ben's voice lul
Angel Lee
True point. Hope you put the rest of Europe and the Clinton/Sanders kids to shame.
Brody Moore
i hope so too, but we need to get rid of non western immigrants, these fuckers are eating away at our welfare budget
Ryder Martinez
Both numbers are relevant. Cenk prioritizes total coverage while Ben points to the quality of the care that those that can afford it receive.
Tyler Williams
Yeah, makes me sad that civilized society and culture is becoming brown-washed with a religion of hate, and that all your classical art is being vandalized by shitskins.
Luke Scott
I'm not on Cenk's side here, but all Ben accomplishes with that question is to demonstrate the virtue of a progressive income tax scheme.
Gabriel Bell
>caring about a jew and a roach
why even come to pol if you're just gonna be a bluepilled normfag?
Parker Myers
>get out of my safespace >don't disagree with me and the closest thing I have to friends